Ireland as a host for Euro 2020?

kitakyushu

Dempsey wrote: »

This probably floats your boat

No, whilst functional, the cantilevering at St. Mary's isn't very well integrated and generally is a bit excessive. A common drawback of many of the 'big box' stadia built in England just before the turn of the Millennium.

Well done on finding the best possible example of a symmetrical stadium in the world though. I can only imagine you looked long and hard before choosing that nomination.

Dempsey

kitakyushu wrote: »

No, whilst functional, the cantilevering at St. Mary's isn't very well integrated and generally is a bit excessive. A common drawback of many of the 'big box' stadia built in England just before the turn of the Millennium.

Well done on finding the best possible example of a symmetrical stadium in the world though. I can only imagine you looked long and hard before choosing that nomination.

First stadium I thought of, is there one more symmetrical than St. Marys? I'd like to see it.

kitakyushu

Dempsey wrote: »

First stadium I thought of, is there one more symmetrical than St. Marys? I'd like to see it.

Fair enough.

I think you just saw the word symmetric and decided to pick on it. I'm not saying every stadium has to be 100% symmetric in every regard. I just think a stadium with 15 rows of seats behind one goal and around 80+ behind the other looks, well, wrong.

I could probably even accept AVIVA if that small north stand matched the shape of the rest of the lower tier (ie 30 rows of seats). That would create a sort of solid ring surrounding the pitch and would give the stadium a much more integrated look. I think that might actually look good and give the impression that you actually wanted this giant window effect on the ground rather than just having it there to distract from the mess. However as it is that North stand just looks like an unfinished afterthought.

Zebra3

StephenHendry wrote: »

anyway its a pity the 'bertie bowl' wasn't built

Yep, 80,000 all-seater with a running track in the middle of nowhere.

Much better than the new Lansdowne.

Mal-Adjusted

StephenHendry wrote: »

anyway its a pity the 'bertie bowl' wasn't built , we would have 3 stadia to back up the scots/welsh for 2020.

correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't lansdown redeveloped because the bertie-bowl fell through? therefore if it was built, lansdown would still be in the state it was at the time and we'd be back to 2? assuming it's Lansdown, BB and Croker you're talking about.

Also, Thomand Park is brand new, the IRFU won't sanction any more construction on it...maybe temporary seats but that'd be it.

Zebra3

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

Also, Thomand Park is brand new, the IRFU won't sanction any more construction on it

If someone else is gonna foot the bill, why not?

batistuta9

kitakyushu wrote: »

Fair enough.

I think you just saw the word symmetric and decided to pick on it. I'm not saying every stadium has to be 100% symmetric in every regard. I just think a stadium with 15 rows of seats behind one goal and around 80+ behind the other looks, well, wrong.

I could probably even accept AVIVA if that small north stand matched the shape of the rest of the lower tier (ie 30 rows of seats). That would create a sort of solid ring surrounding the pitch and would give the stadium a much more integrated look. I think that might actually look good and give the impression that you actually wanted this giant window effect on the ground rather than just having it there to distract from the mess. However as it is that North stand just looks like an unfinished afterthought.

yeah the aviva's a ridiculous looking stadium. I actually hate it

I rather ireland played somewhere that was like this than the aviva

StephenHendry

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't lansdown redeveloped because the bertie-bowl fell through? therefore if it was built, lansdown would still be in the state it was at the time and we'd be back to 2? assuming it's Lansdown, BB and Croker you're talking about.

Also, Thomand Park is brand new, the IRFU won't sanction any more construction on it...maybe temporary seats but that'd be it.

i stand corrected

batistuta9

StephenHendry wrote: »

i stand corrected

said the man in the orthopedic shoes

dan1895

StephenHendry wrote: »

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't lansdown redeveloped because the bertie-bowl fell through? therefore if it was built, lansdown would still be in the state it was at the time and we'd be back to 2? assuming it's Lansdown, BB and Croker you're talking about.

Also, Thomand Park is brand new, the IRFU won't sanction any more construction on it...maybe temporary seats but that'd be it.

i stand corrected

I see what you did there.

CiaranC

Dempsey wrote: »

First stadium I thought of, is there one more symmetrical than St. Marys? I'd like to see it.

Saying "more symmetrical" is like saying "more pregnant"

ambid

This thread probably needs to be moved to the architecture forum!

For any of you who get freaked out by non-symmertical stadiums, have you ever seen Welford Road in Leicester? It has one enormous stand, one wee stand, and some parts of the ground don't have stands at all :eek:

ArmaniJeanss

Comparing the merits of Bragas ground to the Aviva is a bit silly.

Bragas ground was used for 2 group games in 2004 and nothing more, so it was one of their 'make the numbers up' grounds, the equivalent I guess of Liberty Stadium, Pittodrie or ThomondPk in any CelNat bid.

Whereas the Aviva would be the flagship ground in the Irish portion of a bid - it would be the ground we'd be pitching to be used in ~4 group games, a Round of 16 game and a quarter final (maybe even a semi-final if we were cheeky).

Dempsey

I think you've missed the point, some are people are complaining about the Aviva's north stand and its 'international perception'. Estádio Municipal de Braga is a simple comparison of a stadium which is considered a very nice stadium which is fit for major international and club football events. The Aviva is a much better stadium in every way that matters but people are slating it because of a design and planning restriction.

dfx-

G S R wrote: »

You're definitely one of those lads who call a team 500 miles away your team I'd say. You probably refer to them as 'we' too.

Compare GAA attendances to soccer attendances in this country and tell me which one is struggling more?

A bit late I know, but -

I'm pretty sure I've argued with Orizio on GAA issues before with Orizio as a pro-GAA mod. As such, I don't think he's being serious, unless there has been a serious wind of change...a tornado-style wind

Pal

batistuta9 wrote: »

yeah the aviva's a ridiculous looking stadium. I actually hate it

Agree. You can't put this forward as a realistic host stadium for Euro2020.
Probably ticks the boxes for stars or whatever but fact is its crappy.

SantryRed

The Aviva is anything but ridiculous looking. It looks well considering the restrictions. Croke Park is what is ridiculous looking.

Fr Tod Umptious

SantryRed wrote: »

The Aviva is anything but ridiculous looking. It looks well considering the restrictions. Croke Park is what is ridiculous looking.

I think the Aviva is a fabulous design, it looks great.

And I really doubt there will be people in Bosnia watching the friendly next week going,
'Шта је дођавола да иза гола, који је требало да буде став?'

There will be people from Bosina in Dublin saying
'Зашто дођавола нису нису повезали редове Трамвајем?'


Without getting into any GAA v soccer silliness, I agree that CP does not look as good as the Aviva.

Croke Park redevelopment was started much earlier than the Aviva was built, the first phase was completed in 1995.
At the time of design, financing and building the cost and engineer work required to build a stand over the railway line at the Hill were seen as not feasible.

As a result they just updated the terrace there to the latest standards.

In years to come I can see it being completed, but at the moment it is more than adequate for GAA and seating can be attached (as in Dortmund for example) when safe standing is not allowed..

shankespony

the Aviva looks good but cant understand the mentality of building a stadium with the same capacity as the one knocked down! when rugby in scotland, england wales and france all have over 70k capacities and ireland got same crowds at croke park. If aviva was bigger and prices were more realistic.

Same issue with hampden park in glasgow where celtic and rangers have a larger capacity. If it was say 80k+ like this weekend with hearts v hibs final would have a greater atmosphere.

Pal

shankespony wrote: »

If it was say 80k+ like this weekend with hearts v hibs final would have a greater atmosphere.

Hampden holds 52k

kitakyushu

shankespony wrote: »

the Aviva looks good but cant understand the mentality of building a stadium with the same capacity as the one knocked down! when rugby in scotland, england wales and france all have over 70k capacities and ireland got same crowds at croke park. If aviva was bigger and prices were more realistic.

I get the impression that when it came to this project the IRFU valued retaining the location above all other factors. I mean they're metaphorically sitting on a goal-mine there, one that would ensure their future no matter what and hanging onto that bit of land took priority over however the stadium ended up looking or functioning. As is seen by the finished product 50k was probably the most anyone could get ever have got out of that location without massive additional investment.

Dempsey

shankespony wrote: »

the Aviva looks good but cant understand the mentality of building a stadium with the same capacity as the one knocked down! when rugby in scotland, england wales and france all have over 70k capacities and ireland got same crowds at croke park. If aviva was bigger and prices were more realistic.

Same issue with hampden park in glasgow where celtic and rangers have a larger capacity. If it was say 80k+ like this weekend with hearts v hibs final would have a greater atmosphere.

Lansdowne Road was falling apart, the new stadium has far better facilities to cater for showcase events

Fr Tod Umptious

Dempsey wrote: »

Lansdowne Road was falling apart, the new stadium has far better facilities to cater for showcase events

Exactly

The capacity of Lansdowne was 30k odd for soccer due to the bucket seats and time was running out for the use of them also.

50K is the correct size, as we have seen from soccer attendance in the past few years, it has hardly ever been full.

And don't give me ticket 'prices were more realistic' crap.

Soccer tickets, and the season ticket, are great value at the moment.

The_B_Man

kitakyushu wrote: »

I get the impression that when it came to this project the IRFU valued retaining the location above all other factors. I mean they're metaphorically sitting on a goal-mine there, one that would ensure their future no matter what and hanging onto that bit of land took priority over however the stadium ended up looking or functioning. As is seen by the finished product 50k was probably the most anyone could get ever have got out of that location without massive additional investment.

Isn't the Nou Camp built under ground level? They could have sunk the Aviva into the ground and had more seats, and still kept it at the same height from the outside.

Renn

Afaik, doing something like that is extremely costly.

StephenHendry

whens this farcical bid of ours , wales/scotland going to be blown out of the water so we can look forward to going to turkey (hopefully) in 2020

kitakyushu

The_B_Man wrote: »

Isn't the Nou Camp built under ground level? They could have sunk the Aviva into the ground and had more seats, and still kept it at the same height from the outside.

Yes in 1993 Barca dropped the pitch level by around 8ft and installed an extra bank of seating around the pitch. It's amazingly well integrated into the overall design of the stadium and I reckon the casual observer would assume it had always been that way.

Bari (where Ireland played Italy in 2009) is another example of a stadium with pitch and seating below ground level fwiw.

But yes, seating below ground level was what I was implying with my 'massive additional investment.' in the previous post. However, I doubt this was ever an option (either financially or logistically) for the already ridiculous Aviva Stadium budget, but it would certainly would have solved some of the limitations of the site and offered an increased capacity.

Pal

Juventus and Real Madrid too.
They dug holes.
Our lot could have and should have.

Dempsey

Pal wrote: »

Juventus and Real Madrid too.
They dug holes.
Our lot could have and should have.

We'd probably have drainage issues

Fr Tod Umptious

Dempsey wrote: »

We'd probably have drainage issues

That and a million other obstacles

What's with the Lansdowne revisionism ?

As we have seen from attendances in the last few years (for soccer, I don't give a toss for rugby) the place is fine.

flyswatter

That suggestion of upgrading the LOI stadiums had me in bits. Can you imagine building a new 40,000 stadium to be filled twice and then never again by the likes of Sligo Rovers? Oh, but sure it'll increase the infrastructure of the league. Ha, talk about an exercise in futility.

Pal

You don't need 40,000.

Requirement is 30k and a city like Cork or Belfast would probably
benefit greatly from such an addition. Perhaps even Galway too.

Thomond Park slotted in very nicely into the social fabric of Limerick.

flyswatter

Pal wrote: »

You don't need 40,000.

Requirement is 30k and a city like Cork or Belfast would probably
benefit greatly from such an addition. Perhaps even Galway too.

Thomond Park slotted in very nicely into the social fabric of Limerick.

Yes, but Thomond serves a purpose for the Munster rugby games. Upgrading LOI stadiums in Galway or Cork would be pointless in the long run.

Pal

I am not talking about LOI .
This is a thread on Euro 2020

Fr Tod Umptious

Pal wrote: »

You don't need 40,000.

Requirement is 30k and a city like Cork or Belfast would probably
benefit greatly from such an addition. Perhaps even Galway too.

Thomond Park slotted in very nicely into the social fabric of Limerick.

Belfast is not in the picture here, different FA remember.

flyswatter

Pal wrote: »

I am not talking about LOI .
This is a thread on Euro 2020

That was my original point, that it would be a waste of money to upgrade those stadiums.

Mal-Adjusted

Pal wrote: »

I am not talking about LOI .
This is a thread on Euro 2020

It might as well be about LOI. these stadia need to be used after Euro 2020 to justify their existence and when 4,000 is considered a very good crowd for a LOI game i don't see them paying for themselves.

Remember, G.A.A and I.R.F.U. sides already have their own bases.

dsmythy

I'm sure people would like to see more international matches spread across the country other than Dublin in Football or rugby.

Fr Tod Umptious

dsmythy wrote: »

I'm sure people would like to see more international matches spread across the country other than Dublin in Football or rugby.

Well Ireland played Aus in a soccer friendly in Limerick in 2009 and it was very poorly attended.

Fr Tod Umptious

Tokyo got the Olympics by the way

FlawedGenius

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Tokyo got the Olympics by the way

and in what way is that relevant to EURO 2020 in football?

Fr Tod Umptious

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

• 2.1 Istanbul, Turkey
• 2.2 Tokyo, Japan
• 2.3 Baku, Azerbaijan
• 2.4 Doha, Qatar
• 2.5 Madrid, Spain

Ok, I think we are safe.
Tokyo to get the Olympics, have not had the summer since 1960, so Turkey to get the Euros, crisis over.

FlawedGenius wrote: »

and in what way is that relevant to EURO 2020 in football?

The original point of the thread was that if Turkey got the 2020 Olympics then they would not get the 2020 Euros, thus opening the door for some Ireland\Scotland\Wales type bid to be in with a big shout
As it turns out UEFA went for a totally different 2020 hosting system, because there was not a single good bid in for 2020 I'd imagine.

Kidchameleon

FlawedGenius wrote: »

and in what way is that relevant to EURO 2020 in football?

:rolleyes:^^


Anyway, I'd love UEFA to change their minds now that Turkey is available, I still haven't warmed to the idea of a pan European arrangement. Despite the fact that we would probably get a few games in Dublin.

The_Kew_Tour

No way would I like to see Turkey get the Euros.

DubDani

Pretty likely that Turkey will now get the Finals and Semi Finals of the EC2020.

Quite a few countries, incl. Germany, stated that they would not put themselves up against Turkey as the Country for the Final games, if they won't get the Olympic Games.

RickyBobby1

Why would anyone want to go to Turkey?Smelly,dirty,Horrible place.A bus got blown up when I was there and a poor young Irish girl was killed.I didnt find the People nice either

counterlock

RickyBobby1 wrote: »

Why would anyone want to go to Turkey?Smelly,dirty,Horrible place.A bus got blown up when I was there and a poor young Irish girl was killed.I didnt find the People nice either

Fortunately there is never terrorist attacks or riots in Ireland, England, France, Spain. Oh wait...

brianregan09

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Well Ireland played Aus in a soccer friendly in Limerick in 2009 and it was very poorly attended.

I think he means a proper full international , Like a World Cup or Euro Championships qualifier that game against Austrailia was a terrible game to have down in the country thats like one of the ones they used play at craven cottage at times rubbish opposition and a rubbish irish side put out to face them

Amirani

RickyBobby1 wrote: »

Why would anyone want to go to Turkey?Smelly,dirty,Horrible place.A bus got blown up when I was there and a poor young Irish girl was killed.I didnt find the People nice either

There's plenty to like about Turkey. The stuff you said could be applied to pretty much any country in the world.

ArmaniJeanss

RickyBobby1 wrote: »

Why would anyone want to go to Turkey?Smelly,dirty,Horrible place.

Guessing you went to a bleak purpose built holiday resort on the med coast, filled with poor infrastructure, angry locals, drug dealers, suicical ex-pats and grimy irish disco bars (which is how 99% of us visit the country).

However any football tournament will be held in their many large modern cities.