How much food for overweight boarder???

TooManyDogs

I'm completely out of touch with commerical food but even I know that the amount of food my 2 boarders are on isn't right. They arrived this morning with 35 tubs of cesar, 18 tins of pedigree chum, 3kg of meat and 6kg of chum puppy nuts. For ONE week!!!!

For example the 13 year old collie x spaniel is meant to get 1 tub of cesar and a handful of nuts in the morning and 2 tins of chum and handful of nuts in the evening, that totals 1 cesar, 2 tins chum and 2 handfuls of nuts a day!

They are both really overweight, and in all conscience I can't feed them the amount on their list and would like to do up a proper diet plan to give the owners when they get back. The border collie is 3 years old, and springer x collie is 13 years. I use the 2% of body weight rule like you would for raw food or is that too little for commerical food??

Help!

orchidsrpretty

Does it not say on the side of the tin the amount they should be eating eating each day? If you are mixing nuts with it, I think you half the amount of wet food.

TooManyDogs

It has a vague guide, for example the cesar tubs are 150g and it suggests that a 5kg dog needs 2 and half tubs a day! That's 375g of food for a small terrier which seems like an awful lot of food to me. The pedigree tins have small pictures so trying to figure out what breed the picture is to try and guess weight is not a good guide.

Ayla

TooManyDogs wrote: »

They arrived this morning with 35 tubs of cesar, 18 tins of pedigree chum, 3kg of meat and 6kg of chum puppy nuts. For ONE week!!!!

Honestly, I'm not sure what to suggest in this situation - it seems cruel to continue feeding such amounts when clearly it's unhealthy for the animals, however if it goes against the owner's instructions...

Perhaps a gentle word with the owner upon their return would be more appropriate than a specific diet plan? A suggestion to follow up with their vet?

As painful as it is, I wouldn't recommend altering the instructions given to you by the owners without consultation with them first. Doing so would likely be a guarantee that they'd never board with you again and you may lose other potential boarders as well.

TooManyDogs

Ayla wrote: »

Perhaps a gentle word with the owner upon their return would be more appropriate than a specific diet plan? A suggestion to follow up with their vet?

I suppose I was thinking of giving them information to go on rather than just telling them the dogs were overweight, I was imaginging the conversation going like ....

"Your dogs are overweight, it might be a good idea to feed them less"
"oh right, how much should we feed them?"
"ehhhhh...."

So at least if I was able to give them amounts to feed them. It'll kill me to feed them the amount they have on the list, such a huge amount of food , you could be right though

planetX

I don't think the 2% rule for raw food can be used for tinned. There's much more water and filler.
Sounds like overfeeding, but I don't think boarding is the time to start dieting them - hungry dogs will be grumpy. Owners might take it badly if they think their dogs have been hungry while they were gone.
Maybe a talk when they get back about how the extra weight will shorten the dogs lives dramatically?

anniehoo

TooManyDogs wrote: »

35 tubs of cesar, 18 tins of pedigree chum, 3kg of meat and 6kg of chum puppy nuts. For ONE week!!!!

I agree thats FAR too much food for 2 dogs for one week, but...

TooManyDogs wrote: »

It has a vague guide, for example the cesar tubs are 150g and it suggests that a 5kg dog needs 2 and half tubs a day! That's 375g of food for a small terrier which seems like an awful lot of food to me..

If only feeding Caesar that sounds about right. My cat is 5.5kg and if i was feeding him tinned it'd be just under 1 tin of Whiskas a day, which is about right but only around 80-90gm of dry Royal canin.Wetfood is totally different to raw or dry.

Have the owners told you what to feed or have they just over supplied you with food? Stick to the guidlelines if they havent, mix a small amount of dry and just give them the leftovers when they collect the dogs.

I agree dont go drastically changing quantities though as if they lose weight (albeit a good thing) the owners mightnt see it that way. Owners probably are overcompensating while away and have left too much food so they dont feel bad...happens all the time.

TooManyDogs

anniehoo wrote: »

If only feeding Caesar that sounds about right. My cat is 5.5kg and if i was feeding him tinned it'd be just under 1 tin of Whiskas a day, which is about right but only around 80-90gm of dry Royal canin.Wetfood is totally different to raw or dry.

Wow! I guess being on the raw for so long I'm out of touch, mind you my lot never got tins anyway. My terrier is 3.7kg and she gets 100g of raw food a day so I was astounded at what the guidelines were suggesting I'd feed her if she was on Cesar.

anniehoo wrote: »

Have the owners told you what to feed or have they just over supplied you with food? Stick to the guidlelines if they havent, mix a small amount of dry and just give them the leftovers when they collect the dogs.

Yeah they gave me a list, I always ask for full instructions but just couldn't believe the amount of food coming out of their car this morning!

The 3 year old border collie is on 1 tub of cesar and nuts in the morning, and 2 tubs of cesar, nuts and half lb mince/2 cooked chicken breasts in the evening

The collie x is on 1 tub cesar and nuts in the morning, and 2 tins of chum plus nuts in the evening.

Right, I guess I swollow it up, feed them what's on the list and have a chat with the owners about joint and heart problems and diabetes risks. Poor dogs have no waist line

anniehoo

TooManyDogs wrote: »

The 3 year old border collie is on 1 tub of cesar and nuts in the morning, and 2 tubs of cesar, nuts and half lb mince/2 cooked chicken breasts in the evening

Would be getting rid of the 2 tubs of caesar and nuts in the evening.

wrote:

The collie x is on 1 tub cesar and nuts in the morning, and 2 tins of chum plus nuts in the evening.

The morning caesar and nuts should go.The evening meal is plenty or spread that out over the day.

At a VERY rough guess they're feeding maybe 30% more than they should.

Zapperzy

Are these paid boarders or minding the dogs for family? If they're paid boarders I would be reluctant to change their diet as hard as it is to continue feeding them that unreal amount of food. I would definitely point out to them that their dog is overweight, it might help if you can give a rough idea how much they need to lose. From what I'v seen owners respond better to he's 34kg he needs to be 26kg, as it gives them a goal.

If you can slip it in without sounding condenscending remind them that the health downfalls are the same as humans, diabetes, extra strain on heart and joints. And that the older dog should act younger without the extra strain on his joints and longer life expenctancy for both of them.

I suppose all you can do is advice them that they don't need puppy food, dangers of being overweight and recommend good foods and how much to feed them daily. You could point them in the direction of naturediet wet food instead of buying all the cesar and pedigree tins.

TooManyDogs

anniehoo wrote: »

At a VERY rough guess they're feeding maybe 30% more than they should.

Thanks for that. They were interested in hearing more about the raw diet when I was talking to them on the phone so at least that can be an opening into diet in general. They were on their way to the airport this morning so no oppertunity to talk

TooManyDogs

Zapperzy wrote: »

Are these paid boarders or minding the dogs for family?

Paid boarders, so yeah probably no wiggle room on not feeding them what's on the list. Beautiful dogs bar the weight issue

Zapperzy

TooManyDogs wrote: »

Paid boarders, so yeah probably no wiggle room on not feeding them what's on the list. Beautiful dogs bar the weight issue

Ah right, if you reduced the food and they came home acting hungry and a little skinnier it might not go down too well. I know where I send my cat and dog I'v given up sending food and instructions with them, only for I know they are with someone I trust and the dog idolises and the cat doesn't come home completely traumatized I wouldn't be too happy, they're just pedigree and whiskas people.

According to feeding instructions of what I feed currently my 7.5kg terrier should be getting 70-75g of dry burns on it's own, but I feed some naturediet maybe 70g a day so he only gets maybe 40g of burns a day (which he may only eat half of maybe 4-5 days a week) with a few treats throughout the day. Thats with about an hour of exercise a day. Burns has an awful low rda, I think whites was over 100g daily.

Cows Go µ

TooManyDogs wrote: »

6kg of chum puppy nuts.

Are the dogs not 3 and 13? (At least they are the only ages I can see) Why would either of them be on puppy food? I didn't think it was good for adult dogs to eat puppy food as they need different stuff. And if it was a typo and its a 3/13 year old and a puppy, it would be really unhealthy for a pup to be overweight, it would do all kinds of bad things to her joints.

Remember when you are telling them about different diets, mention that although the pet shop foods like James Wellbeloved and Burns etc seem much more expensive, that would feed less so it can actually work out cheaper. That is most people's reason for sticking to the supermarket brands. Plus that the supermarket stuff is like McDonalds for dogs. I know really little about dog food, just that supermarket stuff is a big no no for the most part

TooManyDogs

Cows Go µ wrote: »

Are the dogs not 3 and 13?

They are, but apparently they don't like big sized nuts!!!

Cows Go µ

Don't most pet food have a small bite and a large bite version? We feed Fish4Dogs and I know it does but its hard to get over here

Cedrus

TooManyDogs wrote: »

They are, but apparently they don't like big sized nuts!!!

That's understandable for small dogs, but even Pedigree and Bakers come in small dog sized nuts if they don't want to go for specific breed food.

TooManyDogs

Cows Go µ wrote: »

Don't most pet food have a small bite and a large bite version?

Yeah they do, but I'm not sure the owners are thinking about dog food properly, they just see small size on the label and pick it up

Zapperzy

TooManyDogs wrote: »

They are, but apparently they don't like big sized nuts!!!

What size are the puppy ones? Burns do a mini bites version for small dogs and pups but could probably be used for larger dogs. Even the normal lamb & rice burns I feed isint that big. I got a sample of Arden grange adult food, not sure of the flavour but the kibbles were tiny if you want to recommend they get a sample of that to try it.

DogsFirst

TooManyDogs wrote: »

I'm completely out of touch with commerical food but even I know that the amount of food my 2 boarders are on isn't right. They arrived this morning with 35 tubs of cesar, 18 tins of pedigree chum, 3kg of meat and 6kg of chum puppy nuts. For ONE week!!!!

For example the 13 year old collie x spaniel is meant to get 1 tub of cesar and a handful of nuts in the morning and 2 tins of chum and handful of nuts in the evening, that totals 1 cesar, 2 tins chum and 2 handfuls of nuts a day!

They are both really overweight, and in all conscience I can't feed them the amount on their list and would like to do up a proper diet plan to give the owners when they get back. The border collie is 3 years old, and springer x collie is 13 years. I use the 2% of body weight rule like you would for raw food or is that too little for commerical food??

Help!

Think dry foods vary so much in their fat / carb content it'd nearly impossible to give an average. Even the feeding guidelines between products fluctuate wildly.

I think 2% for raw food might be a bit mean as an average for raw, 20% of body weight for week is an average of about 100 raw fed dogs by some guy in the states, so maybe 3% BW....what are yours getting....going to go work out my old girls weekly consumption! Back shortly....

Re dry food, it obviously hasn't got the water content (10% versus 70% in fresh food) so 2% of body weight should be a great guess for dry feeding....does that work in with all the replies above, didn't read?!

TooManyDogs

Mine are on from 1.75% for my fat lab to 2.7% for my terriers. They also get the scraps from the day so that ups it a bit. I keep mine fairly light because they compete in agility so I add a little fat in during the competition season because they often loose weight otherwise.

The other replies were basically saying not to change the diet they're currently on and just to gently talk to the owners when they get back about changing to a better quality food and feed correct amounts.

DogsFirst

TooManyDogs wrote: »

Mine are on from 1.75% for my fat lab to 2.7% for my terriers. They also get the scraps from the day so that ups it a bit. I keep mine fairly light because they compete in agility so I add a little fat in during the competition season because they often loose weight otherwise.

The other replies were basically saying not to change the diet they're currently on and just to gently talk to the owners when they get back about changing to a better quality food and feed correct amounts.

Typical yanks....3%! Mine is eating close to it mund, and she's 12. Suppose the percentages aren't so important as what's going in. You could be feeding 2% fatty beef or chicken thighs or 4% of fish or skinless chicken. Kcals are the way to measure in that respect, but who has time for that! If you get fat you're getting less!

TooManyDogs

DogsFirst wrote: »

If you get fat you're getting less!

That's exactly how I do it too, I peel the skin off the chicken on account of my fatso lab and don't give him any carbs (who is actually in great condition now that he's back competing) and if the dogs are a bit too skinny I'll give them a small knob of unsalted butter during competition season. Seems to be working

DogsFirst

TooManyDogs wrote: »

DogsFirst wrote: »

If you get fat you're getting less!

That's exactly how I do it too, I peel the skin off the chicken on account of my fatso lab and don't give him any carbs (who is actually in great condition now that he's back competing) and if the dogs are a bit too skinny I'll give them a small knob of unsalted butter during competition season. Seems to be working

Perfic! If only I had the same discipline with my own intake......

ISDW

Unfortunately I agree with the other posters, that you should stick with the client's wishes whilst boarding. I used to have a family of dogs that came into me that had to have cornflakes and milk every morning! Totally disagreed with it, but its what the dogs were used to, and I think kennel stress can be bad enough for dogs, so if it helped them to stay settled, they got it. Another little bichon had to have a cup of tea every morning:D

That does sound like an awful lot of food, but as has been said, tinned food has a lot of water in it, so they're not actually getting that much out of each tub or tin. When you say nuts, do you mean kibble, as in complete food, or biscuits, i.e. mixer?

TooManyDogs

ISDW wrote: »

That does sound like an awful lot of food, but as has been said, tinned food has a lot of water in it, so they're not actually getting that much out of each tub or tin. When you say nuts, do you mean kibble, as in complete food, or biscuits, i.e. mixer?

When I say nuts I mean they brought 6kg of Pedigree Chum complete puppy nuts Plus they brought minced beef and chicken breasts. I've split the meat into half lb bags which is what they said the collie gets each day (plus 3 tubs cesar and cup of nuts) and there was 12 portions, hopefully when I give them back the excess it'll help show the actual size of half lb of meat.

I'm feeding them what's on their list but I just feel so sorry for them. The elderly collie x boots around the fields and has replacement hips so I just keep thinking how much easier she'd find exercise if she was slimmer. Ah well, I suppose I should just be thankful my own are slim

ISDW

TooManyDogs wrote: »

When I say nuts I mean they brought 6kg of Pedigree Chum complete puppy nuts Plus they brought minced beef and chicken breasts. I've split the meat into half lb bags which is what they said the collie gets each day (plus 3 tubs cesar and cup of nuts) and there was 12 portions, hopefully when I give them back the excess it'll help show the actual size of half lb of meat.

I'm feeding them what's on their list but I just feel so sorry for them. The elderly collie x boots around the fields and has replacement hips so I just keep thinking how much easier she'd find exercise if she was slimmer. Ah well, I suppose I should just be thankful my own are slim

Thats so sad, they obviously love these dogs if they've been willing to do that, but yet can't see the co-relation with overfeeding:( I wonder if their vet ever advises them on diet?

TooManyDogs

I really do think that the publics perception of a healthy weight has changed as we have gotten heavier ourselves. I have people give out to me because they think my dogs are too skinny "But I can see her ribcage!". Trying to explain that it's perfectly normal to see a short coated dogs ribcage, seeing each individual rib bone is not, they just dont see the difference.

Apart from anything else they must be spending a fortune on cesar/chum tins/chum nuts and then meat on top of it, they had been asking me questions about raw diet so hopefully they're thinking about diet in general, and I'll be able to show them healthy weight on dogs with my lot. I have a 14 year old collie x too so she'll be a good example. I'll let you know how I get on!

I had them all up the fields today and nearly had heart failure when the elderly collie x decided she'd try and swim around the headland in the sea rather than walk around it on the grass!!! Just could see myself having to go in after her because she's not fit enough to do all that swimming. :eek:

ISDW

TooManyDogs wrote: »

I really do think that the publics perception of a healthy weight has changed as we have gotten heavier ourselves. I have people give out to me because they think my dogs are too skinny "But I can see her ribcage!". Trying to explain that it's perfectly normal to see a short coated dogs ribcage, seeing each individual rib bone is not, they just dont see the difference.

Apart from anything else they must be spending a fortune on cesar/chum tins/chum nuts and then meat on top of it, they had been asking me questions about raw diet so hopefully they're thinking about diet in general, and I'll be able to show them healthy weight on dogs with my lot. I have a 14 year old collie x too so she'll be a good example. I'll let you know how I get on!

I had them all up the fields today and nearly had heart failure when the elderly collie x decided she'd try and swim around the headland in the sea rather than walk around it on the grass!!! Just could see myself having to go in after her because she's not fit enough to do all that swimming. :eek:

I don't think its just the public perception though, my vet has said to me about a couple of my dogs lately that they need to put weight on. I actually was really delighted that I'd managed to get them to what I think is an ideal working weight, you can't see their ribs, but you can feel them (if they didn't have husky fur, you may be able to see them just about), you can't feel their hip bones. They are slender, within the right weight range for their breed, and have loads of energy to run around.

Shouldn't laugh, but that would have been funny if you'd had to dive in;)

TooManyDogs

ISDW wrote: »

I don't think its just the public perception though, my vet has said to me about a couple of my dogs lately that they need to put weight on. I actually was really delighted that I'd managed to get them to what I think is an ideal working weight, you can't see their ribs, but you can feel them (if they didn't have husky fur, you may be able to see them just about), you can't feel their hip bones. They are slender, within the right weight range for their breed, and have loads of energy to run around.

That's quite scary. Maybe it's when you're actively working dogs in some form of sport that makes us very aware of correct weight?

ISDW wrote: »

Shouldn't laugh, but that would have been funny if you'd had to dive in;)

You're a cruel hard woman!

lookitsme

we have a border collie and from my experience thats way to much food. ours is given a mug full of hills active breed medium dry food. we fill the bowl and leave it for her then she eats it whenever, then its topped up but she doesn't eat that much. she is a healthy weight with a shiny long coat. when we first got her our vet told us that canned food is just like McDonalds to a dog dried food is a much better option. For such an active breed of dog i thinks its very sad to see an over weight collie.

But if you were told to give them the food thats what you must do. When you see the owners then express your opinion in the nicest possible way, maybe go down the saving money line with them.