‘Inherently racist’

Dyr

IrishAm wrote: »

The Journal would go into meltdown if Dublin taxi drivers started sporting blue and navy lights.

ehh..so would the garda shikilowney. They're very particular on the blue light thing.

Nodin

IrishAm wrote: »

The Journal would go into meltdown if Dublin taxi drivers started sporting blue and navy lights.

You might get back to me on
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=78735711&postcount=396

golden lane

Nodin wrote: »

I really need a new crystal ball, because the one I have is having increasing difficulty in working out both what you're on about, and its relation to anything I've said.

There are already various checks in place. If somebody has knowledge of somebody acting illegally, or being in the country under false pretences/illegally they can go and inform the Gardai, either in person or anonymously.

so there are no problems with the irish taxi drivers...well that is nice to know,
thank you for your expertise and forsight. what's a few green lights anyway....

the futuire of irish citizens in ireland is assured......

god bless the government, they are doing a grand job....

Toby Take a Bow

golden lane wrote: »

so there are no problems with the irish taxi drivers...well that is nice to know,
thank you for your expertise and forsight. what's a few green lights anyway....

the futuire of irish citizens in ireland is assured......

god bless the government, they are doing a grand job....

A spectacular misreading of a post.

On an aside, why are all your sentences ended with multiple full stops?

PrincessLola

Hermy wrote: »

Are you for real?
Next thing you'll be telling us we're all racist for supporting Ireland in the Euro's!

Yes I am 'for real'.

Listen carefully: wanting only an 'Irish' taxi driver is not really about 'supporting Ireland'. Foreign born taxi drivers are living and working in Ireland, they've made Ireland their home, supporting them is supporting Ireland too.
But lets be real here, it is not really about a sense of so called national pride, is it? This is mostly about wanting a white taxi driver, because you feel more comfortable around a white driver than a black one.

As I said before, you are perfectly entitled to only choose a white Irish driver, but don't expect to be patted on the head and reassured you you are not racist, because you are.

gypsy_rose

Welp, think it makes things pretty simple for me. If a taxi driver has green lights I won't give them my money :P

Ellis Dee

I recall that a few years ago they had to rush through an amendment to the legislation regulating the size and format of vehicle number plates, because the number registered in Dublin in a year was about to exceed 100,000 and the figures would not have fitted under the existing regulations.:D

If they could do that so quickly, why doesn't Varadkar appoint a working group to explicate the regulations on taxis? For example, the sign would have to be of a certain size and a certain colour. What is needed is a set of effective regulations that require high standards, which everyone irrespective of nationality, colour, religion, ethnic background would have to comply with.:)

If that is not done, what is to stop anyone - of whatever nationality - adopting the signs and icons that the racists are now using to emphasise their Irishness? If a taxi driver from Upper Bongolia paints his taxi green, white and orange and adds a few shamrocks for good measure, what will they moan about then?:rolleyes:

And what about customers who are stupid enough to boycott taxis with dark-skinned drivers? Quite apart from the fact that it might be a good while before another taxi comes along and it might pour rain in the meantime, it is quite possible that the taxi is owned by a white, native-born Irish person anyway. I use taxis a lot in Helsinki and there are many Estonian, Ingrian, Russian and Somali drivers (with which I have never experienced any problem), but most tell me they are renki (literally farmhand) drivers, which means they drive a shift for the person who owns the licence and taxi, but do not have a taxi of their own. To be profitable, taxis are preferably in use round the clock.:)

mikemac1

Ellis Dee wrote: »

If that is not done, what is to stop anyone - of whatever nationality - adopting the signs and icons that the racists are now using to emphasise their Irishness?

If a driver puts an Irish football sticker in their back window during the European championships do you consider that a racist gesture?

Come on your boys in green for example

Spook_ie

Ellis Dee wrote: »

I recall that a few years ago they had to rush through an amendment to the legislation regulating the size and format of vehicle number plates, because the number registered in Dublin in a year was about to exceed 100,000 and the figures would not have fitted under the existing regulations.:D

If they could do that so quickly, why doesn't Varadkar appoint a working group to explicate the regulations on taxis? For example, the sign would have to be of a certain size and a certain colour. What is needed is a set of effective regulations that require high standards, which everyone irrespective of nationality, colour, religion, ethnic background would have to comply with.:)

There already is, one of the problems is that the illumination must not exceed an average of 15 canldeabra per square meter ( i think thats the figure anyway ), some drivers say that a bright green LED on the top of the roof sign is easy to see in the daytime ( no disputing that ) however some people seem to have jumped on a bandwagon that it's supposed to denote an Irish driver. I don't have one nor have I realy thought about one but then I only work nights

If that is not done, what is to stop anyone - of whatever nationality - adopting the signs and icons that the racists are now using to emphasise their Irishness? If a taxi driver from Upper Bongolia paints his taxi green, white and orange and adds a few shamrocks for good measure, what will they moan about then?:rolleyes:

Nothing to stop them at all

And what about customers who are stupid enough to boycott taxis with dark-skinned drivers? Quite apart from the fact that it might be a good while before another taxi comes along and it might pour rain in the meantime, it is quite possible that the taxi is owned by a white, native-born Irish person anyway.

But isn't it at the end of the day about free choice, free choice to be a racist or not, free choice to select your taxi on whatever critera you deem fit

I use taxis a lot in Helsinki and there are many Estonian, Ingrian, Russian and Somali drivers (with which I have never experienced any problem), but most tell me they are renki (literally farmhand) drivers, which means they drive a shift for the person who owns the licence and taxi, but do not have a taxi of their own. To be profitable, taxis are preferably in use round the clock.:)

I would estimate that 90% of taxis in Ireland would be owner/user. the remaining 10% would be rentals, whereby the rentee pays a sum of money to the renter for the exclusive use of the taxi for a defined period of time, usualy by the week, the renter ( owner of the cab ) has no interest in if the rentee makes a bean or not as long as he gets his rent

KINGVictor

Nodin wrote: »

Do us a favout there and sum up what point you're trying to make, as its all getting a bit muddy at this stage.

Indeed! I don't understand the correlation between the methodology by which Immigrant taxi drivers got the right to live and work in this country and the support for obvious xenophobic practices.

IrishAm continues to state that "Non-Nationals" from Non-EU countries should not be permitted to drive taxis as there are no immigration work permits for such an occupation. What he/she fails to realise is that once an immigrant is given a stamp 4, they don't need the permission of the government and certainly not IrishAM to engage in any productive, legal activity in Ireland. It is so clear.

If anyone has any evidence that an illegal immigrant is driving a taxi or working illegally, then it should be reported to the police and the immigration officials and I can bet you that they would swiftly arrest such an individual. But as long as they are legally living and working in this country, any arguement along the lines of how they obtained their residency is immaterial.

Spook_ie

KINGVictor wrote: »

Indeed! I don't understand the correlation between the methodology by which Immigrant taxi drivers got the right to live and work in this country and the support for obvious xenophobic practices.

IrishAm continues to state that "Non-Nationals" from Non-EU countries should not be permitted to drive taxis as there are no immigration work permits for such an occupation. What he/she fails to realise is that once an immigrant is given a stamp 4, they don't need the permission of the government and certainly not IrishAM to engage in any productive, legal activity in Ireland. It is so clear.

If anyone has any evidence that an illegal immigrant is driving a taxi or working illegally, then it should be reported to the police and the immigration officials and I can bet you that they would swiftly arrest such an individual. But as long as they are legally living and working in this country, any arguement along the lines of how they obtained their residency is immaterial.

Stamp 4 relates to non EEA spouses etc. of EU citizens, are you saying all the drivers IrishAms asking about are married to EU citizens?

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/moving_to_ireland/rights_of_residence_in_ireland/residence_rights_of_non_eea_nationals_in_ireland.html

Seeing the complications that arise out of the differing permits, perhaps it's time that taxi drivers were obliged to carry their passports with them to prove eligibility to actualy be working ( And yes I mean ALL taxi drivers ) In fact perhaps it's time to get off the fence and bring in compulsary ID to be carried by all people all the time

IrishAm

KINGVictor wrote: »

Indeed! I don't understand the correlation between the methodology by which Immigrant taxi drivers got the right to live and work in this country and the support for obvious xenophobic practices.

IrishAm continues to state that "Non-Nationals" from Non-EU countries should not be permitted to drive taxis as there are no immigration work permits for such an occupation. What he/she fails to realise is that once an immigrant is given a stamp 4, they don't need the permission of the government and certainly not IrishAM to engage in any productive, legal activity in Ireland. It is so clear.

If anyone has any evidence that an illegal immigrant is driving a taxi or working illegally, then it should be reported to the police and the immigration officials and I can bet you that they would swiftly arrest such an individual. But as long as they are legally living and working in this country, any arguement along the lines of how they obtained their residency is immaterial.

Stamp 4 is only given to non EU family members married to EU spouses.

Ive no issue with anyone who arrives into the state,legally. I have a big problem with people who came here through the UK, claimed asylum, got refused had an anchor baby and due to extensive lobbying from the 200 plus immigration quangos, Minister McDowell gave them leave to remain in the Irish state.

Come here as an EU citizen. A spouse of an EU citizen. On a work permit.

Welcome to Ireland, once you are above board.

Come here under false presences or illegally. GTFO.

Nodin

IrishAm wrote: »

Stamp 4 is only given (..........) illegally. GTFO.

Hi. Could you get back to me on this?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=78735711&postcount=396
Thanks.

IrishAm

Spook_ie wrote: »

In fact perhaps it's time to get off the fence and bring in compulsary ID to be carried by all people all the time

Are we one of the only european states without an I.D card system?

lividduck

IrishAm wrote: »

Are we one of the only european states without an I.D card system?

No.
What has that to do with anything anyway, all taxi drivers have to display photo I.D.

Spook_ie

IrishAm wrote: »

Are we one of the only european states without an I.D card system?

UK and Ireland as far as I know, perhaps others but deffo UK n Ireland don't have a requirement to carry any ID to prove entitlement or who you are, though I believe if stopped by a member of designated offices such as NI,GS,Police in UK, Immigration in UK you may be detained if they believe you aren't whom you purport to be until identified

Spook_ie

lividduck wrote: »

No.
What has that to do with anything anyway, all taxi drivers have to display photo I.D.

A photo ID actualy DOESN'T mean you are entitled to work in Ireland or the EU only the requisite stamp on your passport etc. gives entitlement. It wasn't a requirement of the GS/TR to check the elibility of candidates when applying for SPSV licenses

Dyr

So has anyone produced any figures on how many taxi drivers have installed little green lights?

Or maybe found some evidence of what these lights signify?

IrishAm

Bambi wrote: »

So has anyone produced any figures on how many taxi drivers have installed little green lights?

Or maybe found some evidence of what these lights signify?

AN auto electrician who fits green lights to taxi roof signs has said he would not install them if he thought somebody was buying them for racist reasons.

Noel Byrne, who runs a business in Walkinstown, says he has sold units to drivers of all nationalities.

And he argues that they are used to make cars more visible to passing customers, not to indicate a driver is Irish.


"I've sold them to people from Poland, China, Nigeria, Ireland, from everywhere," said Noel, who charges €25 to have a green light supplied and fitted to a roof sign.

http://www.herald.ie/news/i-wouldnt-fit-green-cab-lights-for-racist-drivers-3110204.html

Nodin

IrishAm wrote: »

http://www.herald.ie/news/i-wouldnt-fit-green-cab-lights-for-racist-drivers-3110204.html

You seem to be missing me posts, for some reason. Earlier you stated

IrishAm wrote:

An interesting story would be "Why are so many non EU citizens driving taxis, compared to the their numbers in other industries and how did they enter the Irish state".

I asked how many are (driving taxis), and whats the percentage of the total.

Thanks.

Spook_ie

Nodin wrote: »

You seem to be missing me posts, for some reason. Earlier you stated



I asked how many are (driving taxis), and whats the percentage of the total.

Thanks.

That would be an unknown quantity, it would be in a similar vein to trying to find out how many people availed of the BWEA scheme to set up in the taxi business, dispite their being a requiremnt of the scheme to fully assess and document the applications it wasn't done so therefore no one knows, but IMO 1 would be 1 too many, given the vulnerability of people being taken home in an inebbriated state of mind

Nodin

Spook_ie wrote: »

That would be an unknown quantity, it would be in a similar vein to trying to find out how many people availed of the BWEA scheme to set up in the taxi business, dispite their being a requiremnt of the scheme to fully assess and document the applications it wasn't done so therefore no one knows, but IMO 1 would be 1 too many, given the vulnerability of people being taken home in an inebbriated state of mind

...the other poster seems to have some information unknown to the rest of us.

Spook_ie

Nodin wrote: »

...the other poster seems to have some information unknown to the rest of us.

if it's 0.1% or 99.9% does it make a difference? should the rules be rigerously enforced ( despite the PC backlash of "Racism against non EU people" ) or be ignored?

Nodin

Spook_ie wrote: »

if it's 0.1% or 99.9% does it make a difference? should the rules be rigerously enforced ( despite the PC backlash of "Racism against non EU people" ) or be ignored?

Well it would be rather incongruous for people coming outside the EU to arrive here for the sole purpose of driving a taxi, given the current state of affairs.

KINGVictor

IrishAm wrote: »

Stamp 4 is only given to non EU family members married to EU spouses.

Ive no issue with anyone who arrives into the state,legally. I have a big problem with people who came here through the UK, claimed asylum, got refused had an anchor baby and due to extensive lobbying from the 200 plus immigration quangos, Minister McDowell gave them leave to remain in the Irish state.

Come here as an EU citizen. A spouse of an EU citizen. On a work permit.

Welcome to Ireland, once you are above board.

Come here under false presences or illegally. GTFO.

There we go! It is obvious that as an Irish citizen you are not familiar with the immigration process in the country. I will provide the link to the Irish immigration website for your perusal- www.inis.gov.ie.

In summary, Stamp 4 is given to spouses of Irish citizens, recognised /accepted refugees and immigrants that have a familial connection to the state. Spouses of EU citizens are given a Stamp 4(EU)- not much difference except that the latter has to be exercising their EU treaty rights in Ireland and are given further EU treaty privileges.

You might have forgotten but we had this discussion a few months back:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=78207375&postcount=501

I assumed you had taken this on board, hence your refusal to respond to my questions.

With respect to immigrants that supposedly came through the UK etc and were granted a right to live in the country, have anchor babies etc, they were granted residence based on the fact they had Irish children. The policy has changed since 2005 and Irish policy no longer grants automatic citizenship to children that are born in the state.

Immigrants that drive taxis in Ireland have different immigration backgrounds and unless you have verifiable data on their immigration history then your arguement is baseless.

Spook_ie

Nodin wrote: »

...the other poster seems to have some information unknown to the rest of us.

Interesting that there seems to be no facts to corroberate anything in Ireland however extrapolation from figures of the Border Agency of the UK would suggest we have a sizeable problem here

London: A giant new government database is being flooded with tip-offs from the public about illegal immigrants at large in the UK.

Calls are being received at the rate of one every six minutes — the equivalent of 100,000 allegations every year — raising huge concerns about the true scale of illegal working in the UK.

This is despite the fact that the database, the National Allegations Database, has not yet been publicly launched. The majority of the intelligence received so far is considered to be genuine by immigration officers in charge of the system.

In only a few months, they have carried out 900 separate raids — and secured 700 arrests. Ministers hope the system will finally allow them to get a grip on illegal working. Campaigners welcomed the setting up of the database, which was revealed in a letter to MPs by the chief executive of the UK Border Agency.

So extapolation would suggest for an ireland with a population of 4.5 million compared to the UKs 62.2 million would typify 7% as being a good estimate of the figures if transposed to here.

So we could have expected 70,000 allegations if a similar scheme was set up here with a raid rate of 7% being 63 raids netting 7% or 49 arrests. It'sentirely possibl that given the factor of the UK being the back door ( no passport control as such between NI/RoI and no restriction on travel between UK mainland and NI ) that the figure would be much higher

Now it's also fair to assume that the majority of illegal workers would work in industries where legislation, enforcement and paperwork are at a minimum with cash in hand rather than a salary as remuneration, Mmmmm what fits that bill I wonder, ah yes thats it night time taxi driving!! Inebbriated customers, dim lighting, ID that isn't conspicuous, ID that's relatively easy to forge, a lack of enforcement... need I go on!

Nodin

Spook_ie wrote: »

..........

Now it's also fair to assume that the majority of illegal workers would work in industries where legislation, enforcement and paperwork are at a minimum with cash in hand rather than a salary as remuneration, Mmmmm what fits that bill I wonder, ah yes thats it night time taxi driving!! Inebbriated customers, dim lighting, ID that isn't conspicuous, ID that's relatively easy to forge, a lack of enforcement... need I go on!

Thats illegals, not non-EU nationals.....restaurants and the like are a bit more in line for keeping a low profile.

IrishAM seems to have precise numbers on the question I asked, however, so we'll wait on him.

Spook_ie

Nodin wrote: »

Well it would be rather incongruous for people coming outside the EU to arrive here for the sole purpose of driving a taxi, given the current state of affairs.

The current state of affairs being how long in existence?

Nodin

Spook_ie wrote: »

The current state of affairs being how long in existence?

Since 2007, roughly, we've been a in a crisis.

Spook_ie

Nodin wrote: »

Thats illegals, not non-EU nationals.....restaurants and the like are a bit more in line for keeping a low profile.

IrishAM seems to have precise numbers on the question I asked, however, so we'll wait on him.

No a non EU national working in Ireland would be an illegal without the requisite stamp in their passport

golden lane

Nodin wrote: »

Thats illegals, not non-EU nationals.....restaurants and the like are a bit more in line for keeping a low profile.

IrishAM seems to have precise numbers on the question I asked, however, so we'll wait on him.

is one, not one too many....they are illegal..

Nodin

Spook_ie wrote: »

No a non EU national working in Ireland would be an illegal without the requisite stamp in their passport

......yes. And IrishAM seems to know exactly how many non-EU nationals are working in the Taxi industry.

Nodin

golden lane wrote: »

is one, not one too many....they are illegal..

I'm not talking about illegals, so whatever you're on about, no thanks, we're Jehovah's witnesses.

Dead Man Walking

Nodin wrote: »

.....restaurants and the like are a bit more in line for keeping a low profile.

Do you have anything to back that up with?
What about the mass exodus of taxi's from ranks once the regulators appear..... kinda like the lads running out the back door of the restaurant once immigration shows up.

KINGVictor

Nodin wrote: »

......yes. And IrishAM seems to know exactly how many non-EU nationals are working in the Taxi industry.

And more bewilderingly, the manner in which they got their legal residence in Ireland.

Spook_ie

Nodin wrote: »

I'm not talking about illegals, so whatever you're on about, no thanks, we're Jehovah's witnesses.

So you don't wish to qualify if an illegal is the same as a Non EU person without the requisite stamp?

KINGVictor

Dead Man Walking wrote: »

Do you have anything to back that up with?
What about the mass exodus of taxi's from ranks once the regulators appear..... kinda like the lads running out the back door of the restaurant once immigration shows up.

You will have to produce evidence for that I'm afraid. The mass exodus from the ranks when the regulators appear I meant.

golden lane

Nodin wrote: »

I'm not talking about illegals, so whatever you're on about, no thanks, we're Jehovah's witnesses.

thought you were....one of the chosen few..........all the rest are racists..

Dead Man Walking

KINGVictor wrote: »

You will have to produce evidence for that I'm afraid. The mass exodus from the ranks when the regulators appear I meant.

I will after nodin gives some evidence showing restaurants and the like are the illegal immigrants job of choice.

Nodin

Spook_ie wrote: »

So you don't wish to qualify if an illegal is the same as a Non EU person without the requisite stamp?

....I'll confess I've no idea what you're on about at this stage. I asked another poster a question on a specific statement he made regarding "non-EU nationals". I await his answer.

Spook_ie

So you'd rather debate against someone you feel you might win against rather than someone with counter arguments...WTG and win a debate

Nodin

Dead Man Walking wrote: »

Do you have anything to back that up with?
What about the mass exodus of taxi's from ranks once the regulators appear..... kinda like the lads running out the back door of the restaurant once immigration shows up.

Its one of those things that happen all over the world, involving people from a range of countries. Here is no different, though obviously on a smaller scale. Its more out of the public eye than a job like driving a taxi.

https://www.google.ie/#hl=en&safe=off&sclient=psy-ab&q=restaurants+illegal+workers+britain&oq=restaurants+illegal+workers+britain&aq=f&aqi=&aql=1&gs_l=serp.3...5871.9907.0.10367.16.15.1.0.0.0.188.1662.7j8.15.0.ekh.1.0.0.8YkA_5mKFcI&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=d967963371c9cda4&biw=1280&bih=876

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Undocumented-Irish-have-no-trouble-finding-work-in-New-York-City-131054308.html

Nodin

Spook_ie wrote: »

So you'd rather debate against someone you feel you might win against rather than someone with counter arguments...WTG and win a debate

I haven't a clue what you're even "debating". I haven't even challenged any figures you've thrown out. You can call that a "win" by walkover and give yourself an Internet Medal.

KINGVictor

Dead Man Walking wrote: »

I will after nodin gives some evidence showing restaurants and the like are the illegal immigrants job of choice.

I don't understand you. So you made it up in other to negate another poster's assertion?

KINGVictor

Spook_ie wrote: »

Stamp 4 relates to non EEA spouses etc. of EU citizens, are you saying all the drivers IrishAms asking about are married to EU citizens?

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/moving_to_ireland/rights_of_residence_in_ireland/residence_rights_of_non_eea_nationals_in_ireland.html

Hey Spook. I replied another poster but I think it is relevant to your erroneous post up there.


It is obvious that as an Irish citizen you are not familiar with the immigration process in the country. I will provide the link to the Irish immigration website for the perusal- www.inis.gov.ie.

In summary, Stamp 4 is given to spouses of Irish citizens and immigrants that have a familial connection to the state. Spouses of EU citizens are given a Stamp 4(EU)- not much difference except that the latter has to be exercising their EU treaty rights in Ireland and are given further EU treaty privileges.


Please respond when you can.

Spook_ie

Nodin wrote: »

Its one of those things that happen all over the world, involving people from a range of countries. Here is no different, though obviously on a smaller scale. Its more out of the public eye than a job like driving a taxi.

https://www.google.ie/#hl=en&safe=off&sclient=psy-ab&q=restaurants+illegal+workers+britain&oq=restaurants+illegal+workers+britain&aq=f&aqi=&aql=1&gs_l=serp.3...5871.9907.0.10367.16.15.1.0.0.0.188.1662.7j8.15.0.ekh.1.0.0.8YkA_5mKFcI&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=d967963371c9cda4&biw=1280&bih=876

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Undocumented-Irish-have-no-trouble-finding-work-in-New-York-City-131054308.html

I'd dispute the logic behind that argument, being out of the public eye isn't how you'd avoid being caught, being out of the authorities eye would be a far safer bet. Now in nearly 10 years of taxiing I've had to produce my documents approx.....let me see now.....twice while driving, and twice while having called the GS to a non payer/troublesome customer. I wonder if there's a correlation between the willingness of some taxi drivers to call the GS and their need to maintain a low profile?

opinion guy

Dead Man Walking wrote: »

I will after nodin gives some evidence showing restaurants and the like are the illegal immigrants job of choice.

To be fair - you made your claim first so you need to step up first


This thread has lost all cohesion.

KINGVictor

opinion guy wrote: »

To be fair - you made your claim first so you need to step up first


This thread has lost all cohesion.

Agreed. It is always the same BS all the time when issues like this come up on AH. Intolerable folks who hide behind some false nationalistic concerns and accuse any opposing reasoning as left wing or being overtly PC. Bless them!

El Weirdo

Bollocks to this for a game of tennis.

Locked.

Don't worry, there'll be another one along soon.