‘Undernourished’ child collapses in Cork

grizzly

‘Undernourished’ child collapses
By Eoin English and Fiachra Ó Cionnaith
Tuesday, May 15, 2012
A child who collapsed in a Cork City primary school was found to be "severely undernourished" — a condition widespread in slums and famine zones.
Worker’s Party Cllr Ted Tynan revealed details of the "desperate case" at a Cork City Council meeting last night which backed calls for a national poverty strategy.

Mr Tynan said the seven-year-old collapsed in the classroom. Social services were alerted and the child was examined by a doctor.

Mr Tynan said the social worker assigned to the case was reluctant to describe the child as malnourished, but confirmed the child was "severely undernourished".

Malnourishment is inadequate nutrition and can occur even if a person is getting enough food.

Undernourishment is a lack of nutrients because you are not getting enough food. The condition can lead to learning difficulties.

"This is happening in 2012. This is an example of the serious situation in this country," said Mr Tynan.

He said the child’s mother, who was surviving on social welfare payments, had an empty fridge last Wednesday and could not afford to restock it until this Thursday.
"I would appeal to the ‘political elite’ to think about that seven-year-old child and that mother, when they’re thinking about bailing out any more gangsters or criminals."

Cllr Mick Finn (Ind), who works with schools in disadvantaged areas on the city’s southside, said support service shortages were threatening a similar crisis on the southside.

The situation comes a month after a Department of Health-backed report said one in five children were going to school without eating breakfast or going to bed without a proper meal.

St Vincent de Paul Cork branch chief Brendan Dempsey said the undernourishment case was "bound to happen".

"700,000 people are on the breadline living in poverty, 200,000 are children, and I know of mothers and fathers going hungry to feed their children.

"Two or three years ago we were being asked for shoes or help with the rent. Now we are simply being asked for food. The politicians are living with their heads in the clouds."

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/undernourished-child-collapses-193911.html

Nothingbetter2d

did they check that child's mother's bins for the empty cans and fag packets?

DrumSteve

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

did they check that child's mother's bins for the empty cans and fag packets?

Lets kill the underclass.

staker

Probably on a diet to fit into the communion dress.

Nothingbetter2d

DrumSteve wrote: »

Lets kill the underclass.

im not saying all people on the dole drink and smoke their money away but if the child is starving then there is definitely something up.

i know plenty of people on welfare that have children and they manage to keep their kids fed.

munchkin_utd

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

did they check that child's mother's bins for the empty cans and fag packets?

I'm still at a loss to see how someone can be starving in Ireland.

Aldi does 2kg of spuds for 39c or something for example.
Even if you only have a few euros a month for grub, its still possible to cook a heap of a feed for buttons.

And do these people not have relatives or friends?
If I had someone I knew starving, I'd gladly give them 39c for a bag of spuds.

EDIT: its now gone up to 65c for 2kg of spuds
http://www.aldi.ie/ie/html/product_range/product_range_21722.htm

golden lane

a dreadfull situation........it is time that families put their priorities in order........

accommadation, food, clothing, heat, and light .....in that order.........if the state does not provide enough for that........something has to be done immediately..

Balmed Out

This is exactly way child benefit should be accessed via a card and only redeemable against child related items like food, clothing etc.

SEPT 23 1989

No excuse for a child being in that state

Chuck Stone

"This is happening in 2012. This is an example of the serious situation in this country," said Mr Tynan.

No it's not you bell-end.

No child needs to go hungry in this country. We have a mixed economy of welfare in this country that ensures children will not go hungry for need of food.

The child was probably being neglected.

I Heart Internet

I gotta think that there's more at work here than - "my social welfare isn't enough to feed my kids".

The child and her mother/parents are severly disadvantaged - by the parents lack of parenting and life skills. Like others have mentiond - most people on social welfare with kids feed them just fine.

melekalikimaka

i know people who due to loans etc survive on less than standard dole... mother needs to be taken in for questioning and kid needs to be put in charge of financies, mother clearly isnt capable

stupidusername

Obviously the situation needs to be investigated but sure everyone is going to jump to conclusions about the mother/parents,and her spending habits. Oh sure you know loads of people who survive fine on the money that they get so why can't she. She must be busy buying expensive jewellery for herself,smoking and drinking it all away.

Though it would be funny (not haha funny) if that was to turn out to be the case.

Until the facts are known,this is a non story.

miss_shadow

No excuse for this neglect. Poor kid.

Padraig Mor

What did the mother spend her generous social welfare entitlements - which are more than enough to feed a family - on?

miss_shadow

stupidusername wrote: »

Obviously the situation needs to be investigated but sure everyone is going to jump to conclusions about the mother/parents,and her spending habits. Oh sure you know loads of people who survive fine on the money that they get so why can't she. She must be busy buying expensive jewellery for herself,smoking and drinking it all away.

Though it would be funny (not haha funny) if that was to turn out to be the case.

Until the facts are known,this is a non story.

did you not read that spuds are 65c in Aldi?

Dudess

Padraig Mor wrote: »

What did the mother spend her generous social welfare entitlements - which are more than enough to feed a family - on?

They're neither generous nor "more than enough".

dsmythy

Why is the story not about an undernourished mother......

My name is URL

Whatever about the personal circumstances of the woman in question, if this is an increasing problem then there should be some strategy to deal with it. Which is the crux of the article.

It's easy to be righteous about it and suggest locking up the parents for negligence, or maybe stop their dole payments altogether..? it ain't gonna solve anything.

fta -

The situation comes a month after a Department of Health-backed report said one in five children were going to school without eating breakfast or going to bed without a proper meal.

So what, 1 in 5 kids should be taken from their families and the parents charged with neglect? Get real people.

golden lane

Dudess wrote: »

They're neither generous nor "more than enough".

they should be....neither generous, or more than enough..........

Dravokivich

miss_shadow wrote: »

did you not read that spuds are 65c in Aldi?

Spuds alone a stable diet does not make...

Feeona

I Heart Internet wrote: »

The child and her mother/parents are severly disadvantaged - by the parents lack of parenting and life skills.

This. Whatever has led that family to this point, at least some part of it has to got to be the responsibility of the family. Wholly blaming 'the situation in this country' is short sighted and leads one to think that the government is responsible for everything without any responsibility lying with the people the government works for.

golden lane

Dravokivich wrote: »

Spuds alone a stable diet does not make...

they make chips.......i believe a staple for most kids..

minidazzler

Dudess wrote: »

They're neither generous nor "more than enough".

Not more than enough, but they are certainly enough to feed two or three people especially if there are two kids. Food is expensive here only if you are above going for store brands.

touts

All Children's allowance should be paid in vouchers (or a card system as earlier suggested) that must be spent in Irish shops. That way the state can both stimulate the economy by making sure the money gets spent in Irish shops and negotiate a reduction in participating shops which will allow the taxpayer save money without hitting those who need it. Also you won't find the better off saving it in the Post office or immigrants sending it back to their country of origin.

Limiting what the vouchers can be spent on (i.e. no fags, booze or bouncy castles) will make sure the money is at least spent in the correct areas to benefit the child. By putting a time limit on when the vouchers have to be used you force people to buy the essentials their children need now and not save up for a few weeks for a big communion party of such. Random checks can make sure shops are not allowing people to cheat the system (say putting 10 cans of Dutch gold through as a couple of bags of rice & pasta). Large fines and potentially jail for any shop found facilitating cheating.

It might be very nanny state but god help us some of the gobsh1tes reared in this country during the Celltic Tiger need the protection of a nanny state. If people don't like it well Dublin Port is that way and there should be a boat at around 1pm.

Logical Fallacy

munchkin_utd wrote: »

I'm still at a loss to see how someone can be starving in Ireland.

Aldi does 2kg of spuds for 39c or something for example.
Even if you only have a few euros a month for grub, its still possible to cook a heap of a feed for buttons.

And do these people not have relatives or friends?
If I had someone I knew starving, I'd gladly give them 39c for a bag of spuds.

EDIT: its now gone up to 65c for 2kg of spuds
http://www.aldi.ie/ie/html/product_range/product_range_21722.htm

Well in this case it's most likely an issue with the parent/s.

Teyla Emmagan

Dravokivich wrote: »

Spuds alone a stable diet does not make...

Dunno, shure didn't the whole country survive on spuds back in the olden days. You often hear them called 'Nature's perfect food'. Vitamin C and all!

eirn

Not convinced spuds from Aldi are the answer. Do we really want to get into a situation where poor people in this country are dependent on potatoes? That possibly wouldn't bode well given our history...

johnr1

Dudess wrote: »

They're neither generous nor "more than enough".

Subjective matter of opinion ^^^^ but they are enough to provide food on.

You're just as bad with your automatic blanket defense of welfare recipients as the people who come on here and suggest that the dole should be cut off.

I've lived and fed myself and driven to work every day for extended periods on about half the standard welfare allowance. I'm a grown man, and in a physical job, I could feed myself very well from Lidl and Aldi on 25 to 35 euro per week.

Don't try to defend the indefensible, it just devalues your good posts.

Dravokivich

touts wrote: »

If people don't like it well Dublin Port is that way and there should be a boat at around 1pm.

And how the fúck is someone ment to get to Dublin from Cork if they can't afford a 65c bag of spuds?

Chuck Stone

touts wrote: »

All Children's allowance should be paid in vouchers (or a card system as earlier suggested) that must be spent in Irish shops.

The vouchers would just become a form of currency for people who wanted to spend them on booze/fags/drugs/gambling.

Good luck with trying to police such a system without adding another layer of expensive state surveillance and bureaucracy.

Bannasidhe

Typical - a child collapses because they were "severely undernourished" and out come the bash those on SW brigade with comments about fags and drink despite knowing nothing about the financial circumstances of this family.

The State pays a total of 64.80 a week for a child (universal payment of 140 pm CB given to every child in the State & 29.80 S.W. allowance) plus 188 p.w for their parent = 252.80- this has to cover all expenses, including paying 30 euro pw if they are in private rented accommodation or a similar amount if they are in LA housing.

So, A single parent with one child has 232.80 a week to fund all fuel costs (heating, cooking, lighting), PLUS food, PLUS clothes PLUS those little contributions towards our 'free' primary education which have to be paid - and heaven forbid poor children should have a toy or two. Yes- some people are struggling. Yes- we have children going hungry in this country. Yes - there are far too many people in this country who would prefer to judge those in trouble.

To put this in some perspective - Senator Deirdre Clune, also from Cork, claimed 814.58 a week in unvouched expenses alone just for March 2012 - if she keeps that up for every week it adds up to 42,358.29 a year. Perhaps should we check her bins for fags boxes and booze?http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/members/psa/psas201203.pdf

touts

Dravokivich wrote: »

And how the fúck is someone ment to get to Dublin from Cork if they can't afford a 65c bag of spuds?

Anyone who wants to waste the children's allowance on booze or fags and objects to the state forcing them to spend it on their children can walk as far as I care.

Nothingbetter2d

eirn wrote: »

Not convinced spuds from Aldi are the answer. Do we really want to get into a situation where poor people in this country are dependent on potatoes? That possibly wouldn't bode well given our history...

its ok... an taisce in carlow have developed blight resistant spuds

Logical Fallacy

Chuck Stone wrote: »

The vouchers would just become a form of currency for people who wanted to spend them on booze/fags/drugs/gambling.

Good luck with trying to police such a system without adding another layer of expensive state surveillance and bureaucracy.

Indeed, vouchers seem like a good idea but they probably are not. I imagine the children of parents with dependencies on booze/drugs/gambling would just end up worse off as a nice scheme would roll out from criminals where you could get your booze/drugs whatever for stamps, but they would only give have the monetary worth of the stamps or less.

Seachmall

johnr1 wrote: »

I'm a grown man

So you're not a seven year old, nor the father of a seven year old, and thus don't incur the expenses fathering a seven year old incurs, but you feel your experience to be directly comparable to this situation and are confident enough to close the book on the matter concluding it must be negligence?

Cee-Jay-Cee

The mother is getting €140 a month in child benefit. That alone is enough to feed the child properly for the month. The child has been neglected.

touts

Chuck Stone wrote: »

The vouchers would just become a form of currency for people who wanted to spend them on booze/fags/drugs/gambling.

Good luck with trying to police such a system without adding another layer of expensive state surveillance and bureaucracy.

Not if it is done right and if the fear of god is put into shop owners and staff. Once 5 or 10 of them are serving lengthy sentences in Mountjoy the rest will insist on photo id to accompany the Children's Allowance Card or Voucher.

prinz

Not suprised in the slightest after an experience I had just this weekend in a Spar on the northside of Dublin. Four kids ranging in age from about 3-6, the oldest one with a stack of change that came to about €2.50. The smaller ones had all picked what they wanted, and she didn't have enough for theirs and hers, so she chose to put back what she had chosen for herself and got nothing. It turned out she was still short but the sound man on the desk left her off with the balance. Turns out they had been sent out to buy dinner for themselves by Mammy and Daddy who were in the pub a few doors up watching the premiership wrap up.

Dan_Solo

munchkin_utd wrote: »

And do these people not have relatives or friends?

I agree with the rest of your post actually, but this bit is ridiculous. Why bother with any social welfare at all then if charity can look after the needy?

Nothingbetter2d

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Typical - a child collapses because they were "severely undernourished" and out come the bash those on SW brigade with comments about fags and drink despite knowing nothing about the financial circumstances of this family.

The State pays a total of 64.80 a week for a child (universal payment of 140 pm CB given to every child in the State & 29.80 S.W. allowance) plus 188 p.w for their parent = 252.80- this has to cover all expenses, including paying 30 euro pw if they are in private rented accommodation or a similar amount if they are in LA housing.

So, A single parent with one child has 232.80 a week to fund all fuel costs (heating, cooking, lighting), PLUS food, PLUS clothes PLUS those little contributions towards our 'free' primary education which have to be paid - and heaven forbid poor children should have a toy or two. Yes- some people are struggling. Yes- we have children going hungry in this country. Yes - there are far too many people in this country who would prefer to judge those in trouble.

To put this in some perspective - Senator Deirdre Clune, also from Cork, claimed 814.58 a week in unvouched expenses alone just for March 2012 - if she keeps that up for every week it adds up to 42,358.29 a year. Perhaps should we check her bins for fags boxes and booze?http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/members/psa/psas201203.pdf

the kid's father also has to contribute.... either via bank xfer if he is working or having a portion of his dole taken and given to the mother's benefit claim


also how can some people on welfare with kids CAN manage to get by on what you listed above?

Logical Fallacy

touts wrote: »

Not if it is done right and if the fear of god is put into shop owners and staff. Once 5 or 10 of them are serving lengthy sentences in Mountjoy the rest will insist on photo id to accompany the Children's Allowance Card or Voucher.

Indeed, because such a system has not failed with regard to almost every other crime and we don't have a Welfare System that has more than a few loopholes and issues as it is.

But I'm sure this would be implemented with no problems.

Easier to fix what is broken than introduce a new broken system to replace it. If the government could get the SW system working correctly to begin with I might have more faith.

Dravokivich

touts wrote: »

Anyone who wants to waste the children's allowance on booze or fags and objects to the state forcing them to spend it on their children can walk as far as I care.

All who have said that are speculating. Nothing has been disclosed to say as much. It is also mentioned in the article that this affects 1 in 5 kids with this instance being put forward as a focal point to highlight a wider issue. Given the scale from that, it would appear to me somewhere down the line we are outpricing ourselves.

Seachmall

CJC999 wrote: »

The mother is getting €140 a month in child benefit. That alone is enough to feed the child properly for the month. The child has been neglected.

Children aren't rabbits. They need more than food.

If the child was going to school butt-naked but fat as a fiend people would still be screaming negligence.

If the child was going to school pimped out and fat but lived in a box people would still be screaming negligence.

There's obviously a balance to be met and clearly the balance hasn't been met here. Why that balance hasn't been met we do not know.

Logical Fallacy

People also need to consider that the needs of a young child nutritionally are very different to those of an adult. It is easier for a growing and developing child to be at risk of undernourishment than an adult due to the demands that growth and development places on the child.

No real like for like comparisons so far within this thread.

Would be better to hear from parents raising children on welfare to get an idea as to what it's like.

Cee-Jay-Cee

Bannasidhe wrote: »

So, A single parent with one child has 232.80 a week to fund all fuel costs (heating, cooking, lighting), PLUS food, PLUS clothes PLUS those little contributions towards our 'free' primary education which have to be paid - and heaven forbid poor children should have a toy or two.

Myself and my wife are both working. We have one child in creche 5 days a week and we have considerably less than that left each week after childcare and mortgage are paid. Out of the remaning money we have to pay for fuel, electricity, petrol, car tax/insurance, clothing etc etc. Our daughter never goes hungry. The woman can cry poverty all she wants, the simple fact is she has more than enough to ensure the child is fed properly. She hasnt done so and has neglected the child.

Bannasidhe

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

the kid's father also has to contribute.... either via bank xfer if he is working or having a portion of his dole taken and given to the mother's benefit claim

Some father's don't pay. Simple fact.

stovelid

A sad but frequent hallmark of life in a third world region, I guess.

minidazzler

Bannasidhe wrote: »

The State pays a total of 64.80 a week for a child (universal payment of 140 pm CB given to every child in the State & 29.80 S.W. allowance) plus 188 p.w for their parent = 252.80- this has to cover all expenses, including paying 30 euro pw if they are in private rented accommodation or a similar amount if they are in LA housing.

So, A single parent with one child has 232.80 a week to fund all fuel costs (heating, cooking, lighting), PLUS food, PLUS clothes PLUS those little contributions towards our 'free' primary education which have to be paid - and heaven forbid poor children should have a toy or two. Yes- some people are struggling. Yes- we have children going hungry in this country. Yes - there are far too many people in this country who would prefer to judge those in trouble.

Food is far more important than heating or lights. If your heating gets cut off you can wrap yourself in blankets if it gets cold. If your food gets cut off you become the subject of an AH thread.

And 232 is plenty a week to buy food for two people and in fact there would be money left over.

Electricity shouldn't cost so much either if it's only two people, in my house there are 6 people living here, and with however many computers and TV's and other electronics and it's somewhere in the region of 40 euro a week. For two people, it should be far less.

There is a heating allowance for social welfare recipients in Winter, and it's generally not needed much in summer.

Without knowing the full details, I am gonna assume this is neglect, simply because there is NO excuse whatsoever to let a child go hungry, the mother has money from the state, the first thing she should do is ensure there is enough food to last the week.

Seachmall

CJC999 wrote: »

the simple fact is she has more than enough to ensure the child is fed properly.

Would you be willing to provide us with this lady's income and expenditure over the past 6 months so we too can come to the informed conclusion you have?

Chuck Stone

touts wrote: »

Not if it is done right and if the fear of god is put into shop owners and staff. Once 5 or 10 of them are serving lengthy sentences in Mountjoy the rest will insist on photo id to accompany the Children's Allowance Card or Voucher.

You know they can't even prevent mobile phones and drugs from being smuggled into prisons and yet you think a system that involves tens of thousands of people would not be ripe ground for avaricious scum to make an extra few quid?

Parents with issues would simply trade their nappies and potatoes for cans or drugs.

It's a bad idea.. worse, it would probably end up harming the very children it was supposed to protect.