‘Undernourished’ child collapses in Cork

Nothingbetter2d

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Some father's don't pay. Simple fact.

by law they have to.... if they dont pay bring them to court

dmc17

munchkin_utd wrote: »

Aldi does 2kg of spuds for 39c or something for example.

EDIT: its now gone up to 65c for 2kg of spuds
http://www.aldi.ie/ie/html/product_range/product_range_21722.htm

Bloody inflation!

Born to Die

Padraig Mor wrote: »

What did the mother spend her generous social welfare entitlements - which are more than enough to feed a family - on?

Hope you are well today for tomorrow it may be different.

Seachmall

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

if they dont pay bring them to court

How much does that cost?

And how much is a P.I. to track them down if they've vanished into the night?

dsmythy

Seachmall wrote: »

Would you be willing to provide us with this lady's income and expenditure over the past 6 months so we too can come to the informed conclusion you have?

If her expenditure is in any way ridiculous we might actually get to see it reported at some point.

Benicetomonty

Its a sad truth that parents are often the last people who should be having kids.

My name is URL

Chuck Stone wrote: »

You know they can't even prevent mobile phones and drugs from being smuggled into prisons and yet you think a system that involves tens of thousands of people would not be ripe ground for avaricious scum to make an extra few quid?

Parents with issues would simply trade their nappies and potatoes for cans or drugs.

It's a bad idea.. worse, it would probably end up harming the very children it was supposed to protect.

It happens in the States all the time. Why buy food when you can buy foodstamps for half the price?

Nothingbetter2d

Seachmall wrote: »

How much does that cost?

And how much is a P.I. to track them down if they've vanished into the night?

nothing if your on welfare... free legal aid n all. the costs get pinned on the offending father or mother if the father has custody of the child.

GetWithIt

prinz wrote: »

Not suprised in the slightest after an experience I had just this weekend in a Spar on the northside of Dublin. Four kids ranging in age from about 3-6, the oldest one with a stack of change that came to about €2.50. The smaller ones had all picked what they wanted, and she didn't have enough for theirs and hers, so she chose to put back what she had chosen for herself and got nothing. It turned out she was still short but the sound man on the desk left her off with the balance. Turns out they had been sent out to buy dinner for themselves by Mammy and Daddy who were in the pub a few doors up watching the premiership wrap up.

In fairness it was a fairly exciting finish. Hard to blame them really.

muppetkiller

The only reason I could see someone starving in this country is if they actually are working but on low income employment.
No medical cards , No massive rent allowance , possible mortgage etc...

If they are on welfare it probably is neglect....probably. Unless they are now on welfare after having previously been employed and took on a stupidly large Mortgage.

Or were self-employed and lost their job where they got nothing at all.

More likely scenario for starvation is if you were self-employed to be honest.
You get nothing ...

Abi

Dudess wrote: »

They're neither generous nor "more than enough".

After reading the OP I knew it would take a post from you before any kind of reason was demonstrated in this thread..

dsmythy wrote: »

Why is the story not about an undernourished mother......

How do you know she isn't? It was clearly stated that the fridge was empty. What is she eating then?

Dravokivich wrote: »

Spuds alone a stable diet does not make...

Exactly. Cheap fcuking potatoes is not going to nourish a child.

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Typical - a child collapses because they were "severely undernourished" and out come the bash those on SW brigade with comments about fags and drink despite knowing nothing about the financial circumstances of this family.

Another voice of reason here.

Nobody here knows anything about this womans financial situation, and what other bills she has to pay. Do we know how long she is receiving SW? could she have been working, lost her job, and now have existing loan payments still on her plate? BTW, that rate of payment is slightly out now, the payment has been reduced because the SW pay out fuel allowance from Oct to early Apr only. This is ridiculous imo, because we're still getting hail and high winds in fcuking May.


But no no... Dole scrounging bitch she must be :rolleyes:

golden lane

CJC999 wrote: »

Myself and my wife are both working. We have one child in creche 5 days a week and we have considerably less than that left each week after childcare and mortgage are paid. Out of the remaning money we have to pay for fuel, electricity, petrol, car tax/insurance, clothing etc etc. Our daughter never goes hungry. The woman can cry poverty all she wants, the simple fact is she has more than enough to ensure the child is fed properly. She hasnt done so and has neglected the child.

well done to you and your wife........be proud of yourselves....

Nothingbetter2d

muppetkiller wrote: »

The only reason I could see someone starving in this country is if they actually are working but on low income employment.
No medical cards , No massive rent allowance , possible mortgage etc...

If they are on welfare it probably is neglect....probably. Unless they are now on welfare after having previously been employed and took on a stupidly large Mortgage.

Or were self-employed and lost their job where they got nothing at all.

More likely scenario for starvation is if you were self-employed to be honest.
You get nothing ...

not true

you still entitled to jsa and ra/morgage relief

i was self employed before the bubble burst.

when i ran out of work i got jsa to the tune of 188 per week + ra.

self employed people that are out of work aren't able to get jsb though.

you have to give them a copy of your accounts for the previous tax year but they will give you jsa once your app is processed... in the meantime you can get money from the CWO

Stark

stupidusername wrote: »

Obviously the situation needs to be investigated but sure everyone is going to jump to conclusions about the mother/parents,and her spending habits.

No worse than jumping to the conclusion that the State is at fault yet again.

LittleBook

Bannasidhe wrote: »

To put this in some perspective - Senator Deirdre Clune, also from Cork, claimed 814.58 a week in unvouched expenses alone just for March 2012 - if she keeps that up for every week it adds up to 42,358.29 a year. Perhaps should we check her bins for fags boxes and booze?http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/members/psa/psas201203.pdf

OT but it's interesting that if you sort all the unvouched expenses by region, the amount the good senators claimed is the exact same per senator per region in nearly every case ... i.e. Dublin = 1,354.16, Region 4 = 3,101.33, Region 5 = 3,133.33, etc.

Coincidence? Or are they just taking the total amount allowed in unvouched expenses and dividing it up over the course of the year ... whether it's a valid expense or not.

stovelid

Haven't read all the posts - I don't have the forebearance to weather all the single mother/dole vitriol but the dole is enough to feed kids if you buy the right food (although a lot of people don't have this knowledge). Even if it is far from the life of Reilly that the usual morons insist. I know somebody whose kids were not eating properly (albeit not to this extent) and It's because the mother was a chronic alcoholic who thankfully got help eventually.

Dudess

Stark wrote: »

stupidusername wrote: »

Obviously the situation needs to be investigated but sure everyone is going to jump to conclusions about the mother/parents,and her spending habits.

No worse than jumping to the conclusion that the State is at fault yet again.

I wouldn't say it's the state's fault either - could be neglect or serious lack of education or serious problems in the home, but the comments about how she's squandering her benefits on booze and fags without any proof whatsoever are just horrible.

Dan_Solo

muppetkiller wrote: »

Unless they are now on welfare after having previously been employed and took on a stupidly large Mortgage.

Isn't there some way to get SW to pay the interest?

Logical Fallacy

Dudess wrote: »

I wouldn't say it's the state's fault either - could be neglect or serious lack of education, but the comments about how she's squandering her benefits on booze and fags without any proof whatsoever are just horrible.

Exactly, it's the main problem with issues like this, people seek answers in line with their politics, rather than finding the real cause of the problem and fixing it.

If the mother has been spending her money on booze and smokes that is a problem and the child is obviously at risk something needs to be done.

If the mother is doing her very best, has severe issues understanding budgets, child nutrition and fiscal responsibility that is a problem and the child is at risk something needs to be done.

The important issue here is the health of the child, not point scoring from either side of the line.

thebigbiffo

Abi wrote: »

Nobody here knows anything about this womans financial situation, and what other bills she has to pay. Do we know how long she is receiving SW? could she have been working, lost her job, and now have existing loan payments still on her plate? BTW, that rate of payment is slightly out now, the payment has been reduced because the SW pay out fuel allowance from Oct to early Apr only. This is ridiculous imo, because we're still getting hail and high winds in fcuking May.


But no no... Dole scrounging bitch she must be :rolleyes:

you're plain scraping around for excuses here. 'other bills'? 'loan repayments'? you're f'ucking kidding me. priorities like.

"oh yes mr bank manager, here this weeks loan repaym - johnny, johhhhnnnyyy noooooooooo"

eh, maybe all other bills can go f'uck themselves until she's fed her child from allowances...allowances which any mother in this would certainly be getting. if she's diverting them to anything above her child she deserves the abuse she's got already in this thread.

Bannasidhe

CJC999 wrote: »

Myself and my wife are both working. We have one child in creche 5 days a week and we have considerably less than that left each week after childcare and mortgage are paid. Out of the remaning money we have to pay for fuel, electricity, petrol, car tax/insurance, clothing etc etc. Our daughter never goes hungry. The woman can cry poverty all she wants, the simple fact is she has more than enough to ensure the child is fed properly. She hasnt done so and has neglected the child.

This woman did not cry poverty - a child collapsed in school because she is not getting enough nutrients. The people who deal with poverty like Bernardos and SVdeP say this is a growing problem. Personally, I will heed those at the coalface who say there are children in Ireland going hungry and not be quick to judge someone's parenting skills -or lack thereof- until we have some facts.

I do agree that the cost of childcare urgently needs to be addressed - but that is a separate issue.

mcko

I am always quick to defend people who are on Social Welfare, many an argument at work about it.This sounds like neglect rather than poverty.

Poverty is a terrible thing and all the poor give their kids is poverty, there is a terrible lack of education amongst the poorest in our society, I am not condemning people but is a fact of life, you can feed a family well very cheaply these days.
I shop in Aldi and Lidel and I see people with trolleys overflowing with processed and frozen food that could be made fresh for a lot less.
My family do not eat fillet steak every day but we cook good meals with cheaper cuts.
Again I go back to education, if you are brought up on frozen chips what do you think you will feed your kids.
I don't agree with vouchers as people on social welfare suffer enough indignity as it is.

This situation as more about lack of education than anything else.

Cee-Jay-Cee

Seachmall wrote: »

Would you be willing to provide us with this lady's income and expenditure over the past 6 months so we too can come to the informed conclusion you have?

I'm sorry but thats priviledged information.

Seachmall

CJC999 wrote: »

I'm sorry.

I accept your apology.

Born to Die

There are so many gobsh!tes posting on this forum it beggars belief.

The immediate reaction is to attack the people on the dole, as irresponsible wasters without even a hint of a back story on this case.
Does anyone know if the mother of this child is healthy, has she mental health issues that have not been treated. Is she another statistic that has been over looked by the Health services of this country.

The holier than thou attitude from people posting here makes me sick, people that should be thankful each day that their circumstances allow them to live reasonably well, whether financially, physically and emotionally.

I have for a period raised a child on my own on SW and it is very difficult, the slightest outlay of money that you haven't budgeted for can send you into a spiral of struggling for weeks or months. Outside of that the emotional stress is difficult but I was lucky that I had an extended family around me to help.
This poor woman may not have this.

Take a second and think before you attack, it's the human thing to do. Your keyboard isn't going anywhere.

Frank Black

munchkin_utd wrote: »

I'm still at a loss to see how someone can be starving in Ireland.

Aldi does 2kg of spuds for 39c or something for example.
Even if you only have a few euros a month for grub, its still possible to cook a heap of a feed for buttons.

And do these people not have relatives or friends?
If I had someone I knew starving, I'd gladly give them 39c for a bag of spuds.

EDIT: its now gone up to 65c for 2kg of spuds
http://www.aldi.ie/ie/html/product_range/product_range_21722.htm

I have this nagging feeling that we've tried this 'let's just live on potatoes' thing before.

Dan_Solo

mcko wrote: »

This situation as more about lack of education than anything else.

Much as we might aspire to all our kids being surgeons and theroretical physicists, I think it's time we had the old Home Economics back as a mandatory subject, and starting at a young age too.

Born to Die

black francis wrote: »

I have this nagging feeling that we've tried this 'let's just live on potatoes' thing before.

Let's all go back to 1845.

munchkin_utd

black francis wrote: »

I have this nagging feeling that we've tried this 'let's just live on potatoes' thing before.

I was using potatoes as an example of a cheap source of sustinance.
Pasta and rice are pretty much at the same price point too.
And supermarkets also do great deals on vitamin rich fruit and veg so you can get a balanced diet for cheap if you focus on whats on offer.

people get caught up in the "Ireland is so dear" crap that just isnt true if you examine it, which was another angle on why I like quoting concrete examples of cheapness in ireland, even if in this case it might seem a little riské in a historical context of hunger in Ireland!

Nothingbetter2d

munchkin_utd wrote: »

people get caught up in the "Ireland is so dear" crap that just isnt true if you examine it, which was another angle on why I like quoting concrete examples of cheapness in ireland, even if in this case it might seem a little riské in a historical context of hunger in Ireland!

food is cheap in ireland but energy costs are ridiculously high

johnr1

Seachmall wrote: »

So you're not a seven year old, nor the father of a seven year old, and thus don't incur the expenses fathering a seven year old incurs, but you feel your experience to be directly comparable to this situation and are confident enough to close the book on the matter concluding it must be negligence?

Which of those expenses of having a seven year old do you think should come before food for that same seven year old?

Tbh those of you trying to pin this on the state instead of where the blame rightly belongs- with the people who collect benefits based on having this child, are at best seriously deluded, but then, that's par for the course in Irl 2012, blame someone else, and avoid personal responsibility for anything.

You're right I don't have children, but by Christ if I had they wouldn't be hungry, no matter who I had to take mone/food from including myself.

Abi

thebigbiffo wrote: »

you're plain scraping around for excuses here. 'other bills'? 'loan repayments'? you're f'ucking kidding me. priorities like.

"oh yes mr bank manager, here this weeks loan repaym - johnny, johhhhnnnyyy noooooooooo"

eh, maybe all other bills can go f'uck themselves until she's fed her child from allowances...allowances which any mother in this would certainly be getting. if she's diverting them to anything above her child she deserves the abuse she's got already in this thread.

I'm not defending her, what I was trying to demonstrate was that there are variables to this, and that nobody here knows the full story. Shes unlikely to be eating right herself with an empty fcuking fridge.

The child is undernourished not malnourished, or worse still dead. Now that this has come to light, her situation can be investigated and she might get the help she needs.

One way or the other, the child will get the attention it needs now. I want to hear the mothers side of the story too, rather than just join the 'booze and fags' brigade :rolleyes:

Padraig Mor

Dudess wrote: »

They're neither generous nor "more than enough".

LOL - you're kidding right? If a child is undernourished in this country, it is not for the lack of social welfare support. Standard entitlements are absolutely more than sufficient to feed and clothe etc children properly.

Seachmall

johnr1 wrote: »

those of you trying to pin this on the state

Before addressing my point please try to comprehend it.

It would save us both hassle.

Grumpypants

Padraig Mor wrote: »

What did the mother spend her generous social welfare entitlements - which are more than enough to feed a family - on?

Perhaps things like the mortgage, gas, esb bills, life insurance, house insurance, TV licence you know things that have to be paid.

Not everyone on social welfare gets a free house and a bag of cash every week.

Born to Die

Anyone know how the kid is now?
I hope the child is alright and getting the correct care. I also hope that this instance will help provide the mother with whatever she needs and is provided the professional assistance that is needed in this case.

I hope no one begrudges her that as it might cost a few quid.

My personal feeling is that there is a mental health issue behind this story.

Wile E. Coyote

Abi wrote: »

Exactly. Cheap fcuking potatoes is not going to nourish a child.

Maybe not but add in broccoli, apples, carrots, parsnip and pears all @ 65c each (€3.90), 2 sliced pans at @ 85c (€1.70), 1kg Mince (€3.69), 4 homemade burgers (€2.89), 4 chicken kievs (€3.90), BBQ chicken thighs and drumsticks (€1.99), 10 eggs (€1.85). Throw in some milk, cornflakes and you've more than enough food to keep the two of them going and you've spent a grand total of €25. There's no excuse for any child to go hungry.

Abi wrote: »

Nobody here knows anything about this womans financial situation, and what other bills she has to pay.

Other bills don't come into it when your child is starving. You put food in your childs belly before you pay anything else out.

Grumpypants

Wile E. Coyote wrote: »

Maybe not but add in broccoli, apples, carrots, parsnip and pears all @ 65c each (€3.90), 2 sliced pans at @ 85c (€1.70), 1kg Mince (€3.69), 4 homemade burgers (€2.89), 4 chicken kievs (€3.90), BBQ chicken thighs and drumsticks (€1.99), 10 eggs (€1.85). Throw in some milk, cornflakes and you've more than enough food to keep the two of them going and you've spent a grand total of €25. There's no excuse for any child to go hungry.



Other bills don't come into it when your child is starving. You put food in your childs belly before you pay anything else out.

When i was out of work i sometimes had to survive on 3 euro a week! So your budget is blown before the first line and all i have to eat all week is raw broccoli and carrots.

I often had to have weetabix for breakfast, lunch and dinner thats the reality most on here lucky enough to be in work or still sponging at home don't seem to realize.

charlemont

Born to Die wrote: »

There are so many gobsh!tes posting on this forum it beggars belief.

The immediate reaction is to attack the people on the dole, as irresponsible wasters without even a hint of a back story on this case.
Does anyone know if the mother of this child is healthy, has she mental health issues that have not been treated. Is she another statistic that has been over looked by the Health services of this country.

The holier than thou attitude from people posting here makes me sick, people that should be thankful each day that their circumstances allow them to live reasonably well, whether financially, physically and emotionally.

I have for a period raised a child on my own on SW and it is very difficult, the slightest outlay of money that you haven't budgeted for can send you into a spiral of struggling for weeks or months. Outside of that the emotional stress is difficult but I was lucky that I had an extended family around me to help.
This poor woman may not have this.

Take a second and think before you attack, it's the human thing to do. Your keyboard isn't going anywhere.

True, These threads really flush them out. For all we know that unfortunate child's mother had to choose between a large bill or food, Don't worry about the gob****e's though as karma takes care of people like that, Sure they thought the bubble would never burst and to deflect blame from themselves they blame the dole, Nigerians, Travellers, drugs and single mothers instead.

thebigbiffo

Abi wrote: »

I'm not defending her, what I was trying to demonstrate was that there are variables to this, and that nobody here knows the full story. Shes unlikely to be eating right herself with an empty fcuking fridge.

The child is undernourished not malnourished, or worse still dead. Now that this has come to light, her situation can be investigated and she might get the help she needs.

One way or the other, the child will get the attention it needs now. I want to hear the mothers side of the story too, rather than just join the 'booze and fags' brigade :rolleyes:

the only other excuse for having an under-nourished child in this country is mental health. Lets be clear here what we’re talking about – this article was about poverty and SW (as it mention that’s her income).

the article and the people quoted within set that tone. Someone is quoted as saying ‘she had an empty fridge and couldn’t afford to restock it till Thursday’. THIS is why the reaction in this thread is as it has been. There is NO excuse in this day and age for that.

SW payments are very generous – more than enough to feed your child and yourself. What would ‘her side of the story’ be, if she’s not a proper headbanger that is? it’s going to be ‘I put *insert whatever here* before my child’s wellbeing’ and that in my mind makes her scum, end of story, no matter what that *insert whsatever here is*...but my vote's on dutch gold and amber leaf.

Nothingbetter2d

charlemont wrote: »

True, These threads really flush them out. For all we know that unfortunate child's mother had to choose between a large bill or food, Don't worry about the gob****e's though as karma takes care of people like that, Sure they thought the bubble would never burst and to deflect blame from themselves they blame the dole, Nigerians, Travellers, drugs and single mothers instead.

there is many others facing similar bills, rent/morgage, and have kids to feed while on the dole..... and they manage to do it.

im with the "we think the mother was neglecting the child" brigade on this one

hell if i was a woman and had a starving child i'd go on the game if necessary to ensure the child got food to eat everyday. its not ideal but if you cared about your childs welfare you'd do what it takes to make sure they never go hungry

Dan_Solo

thebigbiffo wrote: »

it’s going to be ‘I put *insert whatever here* before my child’s wellbeing’ and that in my mind makes her scum, end of story, no matter what that *insert whsatever here is*...but my vote's on dutch gold and amber leaf. [/COLOR]

Back in the day when we were skint we'd make 80 pints of home brew for £4 and two bags of sugar nicked from mum.
I'm refusing to see this as a real recession until the home brew kits make a come back!

Abi

thebigbiffo wrote: »

the only other excuse for having an under-nourished child in this country is mental health. Lets be clear here what we’re talking about – this article was about poverty and SW (as it mention that’s her income).

the article and the people quoted within set that tone. Someone is quoted as saying ‘she had an empty fridge and couldn’t afford to restock it till Thursday’. THIS is why the reaction in this thread is as it has been. There is NO excuse in this day and age for that.

SW payments are very generous – more than enough to feed your child and yourself. What would ‘her side of the story’ be, if she’s not a proper headbanger that is? it’s going to be ‘I put *insert whatever here* before my child’s wellbeing’ and that in my mind makes her scum, end of story, no matter what that *insert whsatever here is*...but my vote's on dutch gold and amber leaf.

Dutch gold and amber leaf.. Wow.

Sorry biffo, but I'm out. Ive said firmly I'm sitting on the fence on the fence till the truth is out. By all accounts I'll side with you if we found out the above is the case, but ill wait it out until then.

Wile E. Coyote

Grumpypants wrote: »

When i was out of work i sometimes had to survive on 3 euro a week! So your budget is blown before the first line and all i have to eat all week is raw broccoli and carrots.

I often had to have weetabix for breakfast, lunch and dinner thats the reality most on here lucky enough to be in work or still sponging at home don't seem to realize.

Your budget was blown down to €3 a week because you didn't put your own needs before your creditors and food for a child certainly shouldn't come second best to them.

mcko

I often argue at work when people have jobs complain about how good people in social welfare have it, why don't you jack your job and go on the social,everyone who is not on social will tell you about how great it is.i can't believe how right wing we have become, at the height of he boom we had unemployment, there will always be those who won't or can't work.

Social welfare is not generous, I would not like to have to live on it.


Slightly off topic but as a society make it morally unacceptable for children to be having children.
I am not in the slightest religious but I don't think we as a society are getting any healthier by having lots of one parent families.

Born to Die

Assumptions do not equal facts.

Bannasidhe

Wile E. Coyote wrote: »

Other bills don't come into it when your child is starving. You put food in your childs belly before you pay anything else out.

Sorry - but other bills do come into it. Housing cost have to be met or you are homeless. Utility costs have to be met or you have no heat or means of cooking that broccoli. Clothes have to be bought and washed and with children replaced when they have outgrown them or just ripped them while playing.

My 5 year old grandaughter and 3 year old grandson stay with me every second weekend - and they eat !!!

Last Saturday alone my (far from overweight) grandaughter started off with a yoghurt drink and cheese at 7:30 a.m. She had a bowl of cereal at 8:30 followed by an orange. At 10 a.m she had a bowl of porridge followed by an apple. At 12 noon she had a ham sandwich and some strawberries. At 2 p.m she had another yoghurt drink and more cheese. At 3 pm she had another apple. At 5 pm she had some raw carrot. At 6 pm she sat down to a dinner of roast chicken, mashed spuds, potato croquettes, Yorkshire pud, carrots and broccoli - she had seconds of chicken, broccoli, carrots and a croquette and 2 glasses of apple juice. At 7:30 after her bath she had home-made Ice cream and strawberries.

Grandson had similar but the little ****e won't eat bread so he had ham at 12 noon and the dogs had bread. He also didn't get the 7:30 yoghurt and cheese as he is not a morning person.

That was one day's food for two healthy, active, small children who had spent the day playing in the garden.

thebigbiffo

Grumpypants wrote: »

Perhaps things like the mortgage, gas, esb bills, life insurance, house insurance, TV licence you know things that have to be paid.

Not everyone on social welfare gets a free house and a bag of cash every week.

which one would you put before your child eating?

Stark

thebigbiffo wrote: »

which one would you put before your child eating?

TV license obviously, have you not seen the ads!?

Cokeistan

Most likely a case of huge neglect from the childs mother

She probably spent all the dole money on Dutch Gold and Bavaria slabs for a house party during the week, therefore not being able to spend anything on food!

The woman should be locked up