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(US) Innocent man executed...

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    #62
    hooradiation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,922 ✭✭✭hooradiation


    Sykk wrote: »
    You don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about.

    Here's an idea, instead of just pretending that you 'know' I'm wrong how about you use those big boy words and demonstrate it.


    Sykk wrote: »

    What is your profession, if you don't mind me asking?

    Nerf herder, Scrufy.


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    #63
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    preddy wrote: »
    Yea but lets say appeal number 4, 10 years after the Murder a Judge goes over all this evidence again........
    Let the Judge be the Judge and decide after appeal 1 or 2

    ...which I believe would have meant the hanging of the Birmingham 6. The Guilford 4 and Maguire 7 were initially refused leave to appeal, which, should it be followed by execution, would have been the end of them.


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    #64
    Craven99
    Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭Craven99


    Sykk wrote: »
    "Essentially" you don't know what you're talking about.

    In a bullet proof case where a person is absolutely guilty of something like murder/rape with a potential to reoffend and an utter threat to society, then I don't see a problem with capital punishment.

    Albeit the guy was wrongly executed and those in charge of the investigation should be disciplined. However, I'm not going to shed a tear for the guy as he already had a series of offences after repeat attacks on people.

    I re-read the article to make sure I didn't miss anything - but it just mentions he was on parole and had been drinking. Can you let me know where it says he had previously attacked people? Apologies if I missed this


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    #65
    davet82
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,753 ✭✭✭davet82


    preddy wrote: »
    Yea but lets say appeal number 4, 10 years after the Murder a Judge goes over all this evidence again........
    Let the Judge be the Judge and decide after appeal 1 or 2

    that may reduce the cost but they're talking 10s of millions of dollars in saving for a lifer instead of an exectution...

    anyways i'm taking it that its not just about the money why you would be in favour of killing a prisoner, its a very fickle part of the arguement imo


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    #66
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Sykk wrote: »
    Clearly no talking to you.

    You stated

    In a bullet proof case where a person is absolutely guilty of something like murder/rape with a potential to reoffend and an utter threat to society, then I don't see a problem with capital punishment.

    but then added

    Albeit the guy was wrongly executed and those in charge of the investigation should be disciplined. However, I'm not going to shed a tear for the guy as he already had a series of offences after repeat attacks on people.

    - so its clear you've no problems with people being executed for reasons other than murder and rape.
    Sykk wrote:
    You don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about. And so, start rambling on about things that have nothing to do with anything? What are you actually talking about?

    I've already shown the problems with DNA evidence, as has this gentleman, so it might be best you address them.

    Sykk wrote:
    What is your profession, if you don't mind me asking?

    What relevance does anyones proffession have to this discussion?


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    #67
    Sykk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,327 ✭✭✭Sykk


    hooradiation wrote: »
    Here's an idea, instead of just pretending that you 'know' I'm wrong how about you use those big boy words and demonstrate it.

    It's a matter of opinion. I didn't say you were wrong, you're entitled to your opinion regardless of how anyone feels about it. My thought, as I said, is that your argument is flawed hence "you don't know what you're talking about".

    I can't prove you wrong on something that doesn't have a correct answer so what do you want me to say?


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    #68
    hooradiation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,922 ✭✭✭hooradiation


    Sykk wrote: »
    It's a matter of opinion.

    Wait, so your definitive statement that I don't know what I'm talking about is now "hey, just my opinion".

    Cool.
    Good to know you've got such rigorous standards for the opinions you hold.
    Sykk wrote: »
    I didn't say you were wrong, you're entitled to your opinion regardless of how anyone feels about it. My thought, as I said, is that your argument is flawed hence "you don't know what you're talking about".

    Feel free to demonstrate how it's flawed, if you're so certain of it.

    Sykk wrote: »
    I can't prove you wrong on something that doesn't have a correct answer so what do you want me to say?

    Nothing.
    That'd be nice.


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    #69
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,636 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=91762
    "Today our nation reached a shameful milestone of 100 death row exonerations," said Wayne Smith, the executive director of the Justice Project in a statement. "One hundred innocent lives were put at risk, 100 victim families had to relive the horror of the crime, and 100 times our system failed us in its most important task."

    "These exonerated people represent the exception to the rule in the U.S. capital punishment system — meanwhile other innocent people awaiting their executions on death row may be erroneously killed," said William F. Schulz, executive director of Amnesty International USA.


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    #70
    Sykk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,327 ✭✭✭Sykk


    Nodin wrote: »
    - so its clear you've no problems with people being executed for reasons other than murder and rape.

    I said before... The people responsible should face disciplinary action.. He was unjustly executed. However, regardless of what way he died, he was a criminal that put many people through hell so I won't shed a tear. It's clear I want everyone to die according to you, though.


    hooradiation wrote: »
    Wait, so your definitive statement that I don't know what I'm talking about is now "hey, just my opinion".

    Rabble rabble

    Losing an argument so you manipulate words.. Cute. I'm not wasting any more of my time entertaining your failure to upkeep a decent discussion.


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    #71
    hooradiation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,922 ✭✭✭hooradiation


    Sykk wrote: »
    Losing an argument so you manipulate words.. Cute. I'm not wasting any more of my time entertaining your failure to upkeep a decent discussion.

    Fair enough, I guess asking people to make good on their claims that "your argument is flawed" is just too much for some people.


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    #72
    Mr.Biscuits
    Closed Accounts Posts: 750 ✭✭✭Mr.Biscuits


    If you are pro-death-penalty, watch the complete documentary of the following trailer if you ever get the chance:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvFSEDuByoQ


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    #73
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Sykk wrote: »
    I said before... The people responsible should face disciplinary action.. He was unjustly executed. However, regardless of what way he died, he was a criminal that put many people through hell so I won't shed a tear. It's clear I want everyone to die according to you, though.
    .

    No, it is, however, abundantly clear you're ok with people dieing for circumstances other than rape and murder.

    If you'd be as good as to get back to me on this?
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=78693779&postcount=57
    Thanks.


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    #74
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    Mr.Biscuits wrote: »
    If you are pro-death-penalty, watch the complete documentary of the following trailer if you ever get the chance:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvFSEDuByoQ

    Before anyone wastes their time their time watching this, it can be summed up as follows:

    "Ah gots ma rights"
    "won't somebody please think of the children"
    "but he was a changed man"
    "He was always a good boy"

    There you go, no thanks necessary


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    #75
    Beefy78
    Registered Users Posts: 8,163 ✭✭✭Beefy78


    Craven99 wrote: »
    I re-read the article to make sure I didn't miss anything - but it just mentions he was on parole and had been drinking. Can you let me know where it says he had previously attacked people? Apologies if I missed this

    The Guardian's write-up has a lot more detail. It states that he was on parole for sexual assult but that he'd never been known to possess or use a weapon.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/15/carlos-texas-innocent-man-death?newsfeed=true


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    #76
    aidan24326
    Registered Users Posts: 5,925 ✭✭✭aidan24326


    Sykk wrote: »
    I said before... The people responsible should face disciplinary action.. He was unjustly executed. However, regardless of what way he died, he was a criminal that put many people through hell so I won't shed a tear. It's clear I want everyone to die according to you, though.

    Really? And where's your evidence for this? He was on parole yes, but according to this article http://www.salon.com/2012/05/15/another_innocent_executed/singleton/ it was Hernandez (the real killer) who had a history of violence
    DeLuna was referring to Carlos Hernandez, a Latino man who the police were all too familiar with given his violent criminal history.
    DeLuna’s first state appointed lawyer, recalls him saying “I’m dead whether I’m out [of jail] or in if I identify him.”

    And that DeLuna himself was a simpleton
    DeLuna, a poor Latino man described as having the intelligence of a child....


    The police it seems were guilty of withholding vital evidence from DeLuna's incompetent defence team, such as Hernandez being arrested subsequently for killing a woman and stabbing another, and that he'd been bragging to friends that he got away with the Lopez murder which DeLuna was eventually executed for.


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    #77
    Sykk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,327 ✭✭✭Sykk


    Nodin wrote: »
    No, it is, however, abundantly clear you're ok with people dieing for circumstances other than rape and murder.

    If you'd be as good as to get back to me on this?
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=78693779&postcount=57
    Thanks.

    Abundantly clear? You must be a very bright individual. It's your problem if you can't comprehend a statement.

    Okay, so there's no such thing as a definite case according to you?

    Anders Brevik.. Should he be executed (Which he won't be) would you come to his defense as we may have the wrong person. Everyone knows it was him. He's on CCTV, he admits it, he was the person with the gun, there are dozens of witnesses/survivors.. THAT is a clear cut case. I'm not talking about some shady murder where there is a possibility of the wrong guy getting executed..

    But wait, it might be a lookalike and we'll all be fooled and the poor chap is innocent... Let them foot a ridiculous bill for keeping him nice and warm, fed and clothed for the rest of his life... Get a grip.


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    #78
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Sykk wrote: »
    Abundantly clear? You must be a very bright individual. It's your problem if you can't comprehend a statement..

    I comprehend it quite well. You were perfectly satisfied to see a man being held for reasons other than a capital offence executed. You were at pains to express the fact. Thus I'm fully justified in saying that you're ok with the execution of people other than those convicted of capital offences. I'm only repeating what you said, in truth.
    Sykk wrote: »
    Anders Brevik.. Should he be executed (Which he won't be) would you come to his defense as we may have the wrong person. Everyone knows it was him. He's on CCTV, he admits it, he was the person with the gun, there are dozens of witnesses/survivors.. THAT is a clear cut case. I'm not talking about some shady murder where there is a possibility of the wrong guy getting executed..

    But wait, it might be a lookalike and we'll all be fooled and the poor chap is innocent... Let them foot a ridiculous bill for keeping him nice and warm, fed and clothed for the rest of his life... Get a grip.

    I'd come to his defence because I don't believe in the death penalty. Running a society like its in a state of war is never a good idea.

    ....and theres the very real possibility he's mentally ill. Do you agree with executing the mentally ill?


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