Wireless Alarm system

Matt406

Hi All,

Below is a quote that I’ve received for a wireless alarm system in a two storey house. What are your opinions on the price?

Wireless Alarm system
Keypad and Main Panel
7 x Pir’s,
Internal Sounder: x 1
External Sounder (SAAB): x 1
Back Door: 1 x door contact
Digi modem card:
Additional Keypad – X1
€1340 – installed (no certification)

Thanks

jameshayes

http://www.altor.ie/special_offer_11.html

750 start price sounds better than your quote above...

jameshayes

and only 699 from http://www.realsecurity.ie/

Jnealon

Matt406 wrote: »

Hi All,

Below is a quote that I’ve received for a wireless alarm system in a two storey house. What are your opinions on the price?

Wireless Alarm system
Keypad and Main Panel
7 x Pir’s,
Internal Sounder: x 1
External Sounder (SAAB): x 1
Back Door: 1 x door contact
Digi modem card:
Additional Keypad – X1
€1340 – installed (no certification)

Thanks

Very expensive and I have highlighted a big red flag.
If it's a licensed company then certification is mandatory

KoolKid

Matt406 wrote: »

€1340 – installed (no certification)

Thanks

Can you explain what you mean here. This is not an optional extra.
Is this from a licenced installer?

Also , I don't get why company's list a cert as if its a feature. Its a must.

Matt406

KoolKid wrote: »

Can you explain what you mean here. This is not an optional extra.
Is this from a licenced installer?

Also , I don't get why company's list a cert as if its a feature. Its a must.

Hi,

The quote says the following regarding certification -

Please note this does not include certification but this is available at additional cost of €350.00 which also includes 3 service calls, registration and associated paperwork but this is not compulsory

KoolKid

Care to forward us on that quote.?
I'm sure the PSA would be very interested.
An extra €350 to write out a cert??:eek: And then saying its not compulsory . Whether licenced or not this guy is 1) acting illegally and 2) totally ripping you off,
Steer well clear. I'd be very interested in looking into this guy if you want to PM me.
There are too many unlicensed operators giving everyone a bad name.

Jnealon

350 for the maintenance and monitoring ???
Anyway it still does not sound right

KoolKid

I don't read it that that means monitoring.
You shouldn't be needing 3 service calls on a new system anyway.
What happened to a guarantee ?
Either way certification is not optional.

fred funk }{

Must mean monitoring & service. No company would be crazy enough to charge for certification.

altor

Matt406 wrote: »

Hi All,

Below is a quote that I’ve received for a wireless alarm system in a two storey house. What are your opinions on the price?

Wireless Alarm system
Keypad and Main Panel
7 x Pir’s,
Internal Sounder: x 1
External Sounder (SAAB): x 1
Back Door: 1 x door contact
Digi modem card:
Additional Keypad – X1
€1340 – installed (no certification)

Thanks

Perimeter protection is the better option. An intruder has to be in your premises before a PIR will pick them up, It is the cheaper option doing it this way. Most PIRs in a trap pack will be off at night to allow you walk around the house without setting off the alarm system, this can lead to an easy entry for a potential burglar. They have to certify the system if they are installing a new system. I would too say the €350 is for monitoring and maintenance. If they are trying to charge for the maintenance on a new system when it should be covered by the warranty they are chancing there arm.

KoolKid

Regardless of what the €350 is for they are still stating the install does not include certification . Matt seems to be quoting directly.
Still sounds dodgy to me.

altor

KoolKid wrote: »

Regardless of what the €350 is for they are still stating the install does not include certification . Matt seems to be quoting directly.
Still sounds dodgy to me.

Something is not right. I have seen electricians quoting for alarms and then when asked for a cert put it through a certified company. It is wrong but the PSA did nothing about it as they could not get enough evidence.

Matt406

Thanks for all the replies. Just to clarify this is taken directly from the quote –

“Please note this does not include certification but this is available at additional cost of €350.00 which also includes 3 service calls, registration and associated paperwork but this is not compulsory”

This is not for monitoring (it’s not a monitored system), my understanding of this is that it’s for certification and 3 service calls – which I don’t really understand – why would I need 3 service calls on a new system and does it not come with a guarantee?

I think that “Altor” has hit the nail on the head with -

“Something is not right. I have seen electricians quoting for alarms and then when asked for a cert put it through a certified company. It is wrong but the PSA did nothing about it as they could not get enough evidence.”

KoolKid

You have to report this to the PSA and whatever certification body this guy is using (if any)
This guy is conning people. He is breaking the law, and if he's not licensed he is also getting his customers to break the law also.
If your not comfortable reporting this then forward the quote to me or one of the other licensed installers here. We would be more than happy to forward on to the relevant authorities .

Jnealon

KoolKid wrote: »

You have to report this to the PSA and whatever certification body this guy is using (if any)
This guy is conning people. He is breaking the law, and if he's not licensed he is also getting his customers to break the law also.
If your not comfortable reporting this then forward the quote to me or one of the other licensed installers here. We would be more than happy to forward on to the relevant authorities .

Whether you report this clown or not is up to you but I would stay well clear of him

altor

Matt406 wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies. Just to clarify this is taken directly from the quote –

“Please note this does not include certification but this is available at additional cost of €350.00 which also includes 3 service calls, registration and associated paperwork but this is not compulsory”

This is not for monitoring (it’s not a monitored system), my understanding of this is that it’s for certification and 3 service calls – which I don’t really understand – why would I need 3 service calls on a new system and does it not come with a guarantee?

I think that “Altor” has hit the nail on the head with -

“Something is not right. I have seen electricians quoting for alarms and then when asked for a cert put it through a certified company. It is wrong but the PSA did nothing about it as they could not get enough evidence.”

The only way the PSA can do anything about this is to have the alarm installed. Then they have evidence for a case against the installer if he is working illegally. If the installer does not install the alarm they have no evidence and just ask for a letter to confirm he does not install alarms. Without getting the alarm installed they won't do anything about it only maybe a phone call if you pass on his number.

KoolKid

They can take a case with a written quotation here.
There are 2 grounds.
1) He is presenting himself for work which he doesn't appear to be licenced for. That in itself is a breach of the act.
2) He is offering to install an uncertified alarm , I'd imagine confirming he's not licenced.
A quote should well be sufficient here. I, for one, am not going to go down the road of not bothering because it might not lead to a conviction.
We all need to do more. We can't complain about lack of enforcement while taking an attitude of why bother.

altor

KoolKid wrote: »

They can take a case with a written quotation here.
There are 2 grounds.
1) He is presenting himself for work which he doesn't appear to be licenced for. That in itself is a breach of the act.
2) He is offering to install an uncertified alarm , I'd imagine confirming he's not licenced.
A quote should well be sufficient here. I, for one, am not going to go down the road of not bothering because it might not lead to a conviction.
We all need to do more./

I do agree with you with regard us having to report an installer but with no evidence of an install plus he is saying it can be certified I would get him to install the system and then report him if there is no cert. With regard us having to do more, that is where the PSA fails as they should be actively doing more about the problem of illegally installed alarm systems, not just relying on us making a case for them.

KoolKid

I think installing the system would be incriminating the customer.
He/She would then be knowingly employing an unlicensed operator.
That is also a breach of the act. It doesn't matter that he offering certification.
What matters is he is offering no certification.
It would be like a plumber without RGI registration trying to sell you an installation of a new boiler.
I agree not enough is being done by the PSA. However people should not neglect to report a crime based on whether a conviction could be obtained.
If you see a robbery taking place you call the Guards. You wouldn't even think about the how likely it is to result in a prosecution. Now im my opinion this guy its breaking the law in a worse way, because he is someone the customer is trusting with the security of their home. Not to mention the fact that€350 for a cert is pretty much robbing the customer anyway.
@Matt .What do you plan to do.

Matt406

Thanks all for your advice. I’m not going to use this guy to install the alarm system. I’m also not going to report him as he is a friend of a friend so it’s not that straight forward in reporting him. I will tell my friend that recommended him to read this thread. Thanks again.

KoolKid

Its your choice whether to report him or not.
I would.
Anyway,Hopefully this thread will make him reconsider his illegal activities.

Matt406

Sorry you feel that way KoolKid. If you look back to my original post price was the only thing that I was questioning. I had no idea that certification was mandatory and that a company must be registered in order to install an alarm system. Having considered all that has been said on this thread I have decided not to use this installer but I don’t see how not reporting the installer is breaking the law? Could you please explain that one to me?


Also I asked for the opinions of contributors to boards.ie - I have no way of knowing if those contributors are professional licensed installers – I can only take what is being said as people’s opinions (i.e.) is the price good or bad.

KoolKid

Sincere apologies matt I read that wrong. Ill delete the above.
I took it up you were using him still.
Obviously its up to you whether to report or take this further. And by ignoring it you are in no way breaking the law.
Maybe this thread will put the brakes on this guys illegal activities. If it does at least we have done some good.

Matt406

Hi All,

I’ve received the quote below from a licensed installer for a Visonic system

Controls:

1 x Wireless Control panel with battery back-up.
1 x Wireless Keypad
2 x Arm/Disarm Fobs

Sounders:

1 x External sounder with strobe light & live flashing led indicator
1 x Internal siren

Detection:

6 x Passive infra-red beams - study, dining, entrance hall, front sitting room, rear sitting room & landing.
3 x Magnetic reed contacts - back door, boiler & front door
3 x Magnetic reed contacts - kitchen 1 (2openings), kitchen 2 (1opening), utility room window (1opening)
2 x Smoke detectors - entrance hall & landing

Quotation:
€1150.00 plus VAT

Any opinions good bad or indifferent on a) the price
b) Visonic system (compared to HKC).

Thanks

KoolKid

That sounds about right considering your getting an extra keypad & 14 devices.
Very little difference between Visonic & HKC. They both conform to EN50131. Some will try confuse you with one / 2way devices claiming better battery life etc. In reality & in my experience I am getting 3 years + on 1 way Visonic devices. Some people are claiming a lot less than that on 2 way HKC systems.
If your looking at 2 way I would look at the Visonic Power G these will give a far longer battery life so it may be worth waiting for their shock sensors to arrive.

altor

Matt406 wrote: »

Hi All,

I’ve received the quote below from a licensed installer for a Visonic system

Controls:

1 x Wireless Control panel with battery back-up.
1 x Wireless Keypad
2 x Arm/Disarm Fobs

Sounders:

1 x External sounder with strobe light & live flashing led indicator
1 x Internal siren

Detection:

6 x Passive infra-red beams - study, dining, entrance hall, front sitting room, rear sitting room & landing.
3 x Magnetic reed contacts - back door, boiler & front door
3 x Magnetic reed contacts - kitchen 1 (2openings), kitchen 2 (1opening), utility room window (1opening)
2 x Smoke detectors - entrance hall & landing

Quotation:
€1150.00 plus VAT

Any opinions good bad or indifferent on a) the price
b) Visonic system (compared to HKC).

Thanks

The price is in around what you would expect to pay for the visonic system. I would still rather see you cover the perimeter rather than contacts on the windows and PIRs to back them up. If an intruder was to take glass out of the window without opening the window then the alarm wont activate unless he was to be picked up by a PIR.

minder2009

Your house is not pre wired I presume.
If so , would get a few more quotes. It is very important to have perimeter protection . I mean shock/ dual sensors in windows in particular. You want an activation when first attempt is made to gain entry. The way that quote works ... They are in when you get activation ... Usually 5 sec delay on dialler .. Could be a lot gone before you know about the alarm going off. Steer clear if not registered with psa. U will get completion cert to en standard psa installer. Be aware gsm jammers are freely available on net and can stop you getting alarm txt. U can enquire about radio relay back up , if tampered , monitoring service will get alert.

Minder

minder2009

KoolKid wrote: »

Its your choice whether to report him or not.
I would.
Anyway,Hopefully this thread will make him reconsider his illegal activities.

Interesting re psa. I got an alarm installed by a certified company registered with psa. Got all the paperwork etc confirming it confirms to the en standard. The panel is in the attic. It is not protected.i was onto the psa about it. I am told they do not inspect individual alarm installations. Serious lack of Interest in it.... Psa...it's a Reputable company there is no question about that. One wonders even if they are properly licensed ie alarm companies , and don't complete to full spec ... And ..psa have no interest ... Spoken to a few alarm guys about it ... Some
say it must be protected others say not .....
Is there a written regulation? If so , where is it !! Seemd it's all hearsay in relation to this particular issue. !! Is psa a moneymaking operation? ... Another state.. Money gathering agency!?
Minder

KoolKid

The control panel must be within the area protected by it.
This is not the PSAs job. Call the certification body that the installer used.
NSAI, EQA SSAIB etc....

minder2009

KoolKid wrote: »

The control panel must be within the area protected by it.
This is not the PSAs job. Call the certification body that the installer used.
NSAI, EQA SSAIB etc....

Thks koolkid for clarification. Nsai certified it says on receipt. Also ... Above spec conforms to is en 50131 standard and amendments.

From what u say it's clearly in breach of this. It's just to contact nsai so Thks
Minder