Wireless Alarm system

KoolKid

Yes.
Its a crazy one to leave as its so easily rectified.

minder2009

KoolKid wrote: »

Yes.
Its a crazy one to leave as its so easily rectified.

it will be rectified alright !! Thks

just getting the facts! cheers

KoolKid

Your welcome , lets know how you get on with it.

Thunderbird2

Matt406 wrote: »

Hi All,

I’ve received the quote below from a licensed installer for a Visonic system

Controls:

1 x Wireless Control panel with battery back-up.
1 x Wireless Keypad
2 x Arm/Disarm Fobs

Sounders:

1 x External sounder with strobe light & live flashing led indicator
1 x Internal siren

Detection:

6 x Passive infra-red beams - study, dining, entrance hall, front sitting room, rear sitting room & landing.
3 x Magnetic reed contacts - back door, boiler & front door
3 x Magnetic reed contacts - kitchen 1 (2openings), kitchen 2 (1opening), utility room window (1opening)
2 x Smoke detectors - entrance hall & landing

Quotation:
€1150.00 plus VAT

Any opinions good bad or indifferent on a) the price
b) Visonic system (compared to HKC).

Thanks

Just make sure its on the new 868mhz frequency and not 433mhz as to many devices are working on this

Matt406

Thanks all for your responses.

I’ve a few questions arising from those responses! –

“Some will try confuse you with one / 2way devices claiming better battery life”– is either system better, or is it a case of two ways of doing the same thing? Is one a newer technology?

“I would still rather see you cover the perimeter rather than contacts on the windows and PIRs to back them up. If an intruder was to take glass out of the window without opening the window then the alarm won’t activate unless he was to be picked up by a PIR.” – To cover the perimeter I assume that you’d need sensors on all down stairs windows/doors that have vibration sensors also and don’t just activate when a window is opened? Am I correct in saying that the magnetic reed contacts are only activated when a window/door is opened?

“Just make sure it’s on the new 868 MHz frequency and not 433 MHz as too many devices are working on this” – what’s the difference between these two?

Thanks

KoolKid

Matt406 wrote: »

“Some will try confuse you with one / 2way devices claiming better battery life”– is either system better, or is it a case of two ways of doing the same thing? Is one a newer technology?

With 2 way the panel is able to communicate with the devices as well as the devices transmitting to the panel.
The theory is that the devices will use less power because they don't need to transmit until the panel tell them it's set. In reality it seems to make little difference. The device has to stay awake to listen for commands from the panel.
With one way devices they transmit all open close signals.The main ones that are going to open close a lot are PiRs.However these have their own power save method,if there is constant movement they stop transmitting untill everything is clear for around 1 & half minutes. In my experience there's very little difference.

Matt406 wrote: »

“I would still rather see you cover the perimeter rather than contacts on the windows and PIRs to back them up. If an intruder was to take glass out of the window without opening the window then the alarm won’t activate unless he was to be picked up by a PIR.” – To cover the perimeter I assume that you’d need sensors on all down stairs windows/doors that have vibration sensors also and don’t just activate when a window is opened? Am I correct in saying that the magnetic reed contacts are only activated when a window/door is opened?

Magnetic contacts will only register a Windsor or door opening. Ideally here you would have inertia sensors and contacts on all accessible points of entry.

Matt406 wrote: »

“Just make sure it’s on the new 868 MHz frequency and not 433 MHz as too many devices are working on this” – what’s the difference between these two?

Thanks

Older systems used 433 MHz . This frequency was shared with many other domestic devices.

Matt406

Thanks for that KoolKid.

“Older systems used 433 MHz. This frequency was shared with many other domestic devices. “ – I assume that this old system still works perfectly well? There isn’t any problems with it that the new system corrects?

KoolKid

Its mainly just about interference from other wireless devices.

altor

Matt406 wrote: »

Thanks all for your responses.

I’ve a few questions arising from those responses! –

“Some will try confuse you with one / 2way devices claiming better battery life”– is either system better, or is it a case of two ways of doing the same thing? Is one a newer technology?

Yes, one way is an older technology. Most of the newer systems on the market use the two way technology for there devices. Visonic have also a newer panel on the market that uses this newer technology, The Power-Master. PIRs on the older Powermax systems will go asleep for 2 minutes, not 1 and a half minutes as has being suggested, also if you keep walking in front of a PIR on the powermax complete system the timer will keep resetting meaning you could be moving around in the room all day without the PIR activating. On a two way system the devices are woke up straight away to arm. They don't have to wait for there sleep timer to elapse. If you do go down the route of installing the Visonic trap system I would be looking to have the newer Power-Master installed. With a two way system the devices are controlled from the system rather than setting different links in the devices. The only draw back with the Power-Master at the moment is they have not developed a Inertia/contact for the system. This is a big draw back with any system. There is no date on a release of one but have being told there are in development.

Matt406 wrote: »

“I would still rather see you cover the perimeter rather than contacts on the windows and PIRs to back them up. If an intruder was to take glass out of the window without opening the window then the alarm won’t activate unless he was to be picked up by a PIR.” – To cover the perimeter I assume that you’d need sensors on all down stairs windows/doors that have vibration sensors also and don’t just activate when a window is opened? Am I correct in saying that the magnetic reed contacts are only activated when a window/door is opened?

A contact protecting a window opening will only do what it is designed to do. If an intruder was to smash the glass, cut the glass or take the glass out to gain entry without opening the window then he will enter your premises undetected. It is the case with most trap packs a PIR is off say at night to allow access by the PIR without activating the alarm. Just be careful what way they are set up. In reality a shock sensor or an inertia/contact on a window is always going to provide more protection than just a contact as they are designed to pick up on an intruder trying to gain entry.

Matt406 wrote: »

“Just make sure it’s on the new 868 MHz frequency and not 433 MHz as too many devices are working on this” – what’s the difference between these two?

Thanks

Older systems use this frequency, there are two many devices like remote controls, door bells and so on using this frequency. They can cause interference with an alarm using this frequency. The newer 868 frequency is the one to go for.

KoolKid

Hi Matt,
this is some of the confusion I was referring to.
Not sure what point is being made here as its doing what its supposed to do.

altor wrote: »

. PIRs on the older Powermax systems will go asleep for 2 minutes, not 1 and a half minutes as has being suggested,.

Some have even suggested 3 minutes or more.
Here is a video showing 90 seconds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63FPXaK5kX4

altor wrote: »

also if you keep walking in front of a PIR on the powermax complete system the timer will keep resetting meaning you could be moving around in the room all day without the PIR activating.

That is how the powersave feature works. If you are in a room for 2 hours the PiR will stay asleep for that time. You not going to save much if it sleeps for 90 seconds & then keeps transmitting constantly for the next 119 minutes.

The battery life is saved on one way by the sleep mode . In 2 way the unit ins't really asleep as it is constantly listening for the panels transmissions anyway.
With one way there is no listening required it simply starts transmitting again when ready. Some people claim this is a security risk. In reality your exit time is 20-30 seconds , so that leaves a minute for someone to break in & run in front of your PiR & clear your house out. On top of that they would have had to get there without activating anything else. I've never come across anything close in all my years.

Thunderbird2

When enrolling a new sensor do you not have to wait for it to settle ?

KoolKid

In what sense?
It will work straight after enrolling.

Thunderbird2

When enrolling a new sensor do you not have to wait for it to settle ?

KoolKid

Sorry Thunderbird , I'm not sure what your asking.
Settle in what way?
You can enroll a sensor, close it up come out of engineer & set the alarm & it will work.

Thunderbird2

When you open a sensor to put it into walk test how long before it settles?

KoolKid

It will work once it wakes up again. What point are you making?

Thunderbird2

When you enroll a sensor via tamper is it not in walk test ? How long until it settles?

KoolKid

It is in walk test & it comes out of walk test in a few minutes. The PiR in the video is not one that was newly enrolled & its not in walk test. The walk test is on the panel itself. As this is a one way device it does not know what state the panel is in either way. You can also see at the start of the video that the device is asleep & does not transmit open as I stand in front of it & walk out the door.
Again, what point are you trying to make.?

Thunderbird2

KoolKid wrote: »

It is in walk test & it comes out of walk test in a few minutes. The PiR in the video is not one that was newly enrolled & its not in walk test. The walk test is on the panel itself. As this is a one way device it does not know what state the panel is in either way. You can also see at the start of the video that the device is asleep & does not transmit open as I stand in front of it & walk out the door.
Again, what point are you trying to make.?

Why is the led on if it's closed?

altor

KoolKid wrote: »

Hi Matt,
this is some of the confusion I was referring to.
Not sure what point is being made here as its doing what its supposed to do.
Some have even suggested 3 minutes or more.
Here is a video showing 90 seconds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63FPXaK5kX4

That is how the powersave feature works. If you are in a room for 2 hours the PiR will stay asleep for that time. You not going to save much if it sleeps for 90 seconds & then keeps transmitting constantly for the next 119 minutes.

The battery life is saved on one way by the sleep mode . In 2 way the unit ins't really asleep as it is constantly listening for the panels transmissions anyway.
With one way there is no listening required it simply starts transmitting again when ready. Some people claim this is a security risk. In reality your exit time is 20-30 seconds , so that leaves a minute for someone to break in & run in front of your PiR & clear your house out. On top of that they would have had to get there without activating anything else. I've never come across anything close in all my years.

I have to agree with you on one thing here. There is confusion on this thread and it is coming from you...

The sleep time on a Visonic PIR is 2 minutes.
Here is a video showing the 2 minute timer in action.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUat8LA9OWc

The shocking thing is every time the PIR is walked in front of the timer resets.
The alarm is armed from when I arm it till it activates. With a two way system the PIR would be armed.

Your video is misleading. To me it looks like you just learned in the sensor as it is still in walk test mode as you can see from the light on the detector. Again if you knew about the Visonic PIR you would know that once it goes into walk test it needs to settle before you can test it correctly on an armed system.

altor

Thunderbird2 wrote: »

Why is the led on if it's closed?

Looks like his power saver is not working.

altor

Thunderbird2 wrote: »

When enrolling a new sensor do you not have to wait for it to settle ?

That is correct Thunderbird2, I would suspect that is another reason why the light is on.

KoolKid

I enabled the LED for the purpose of the video.
The Video clearly shows no activation when I am front of the PiR .
If it was in walk test it would not go to sleep & you would have heard the intermittent beeps as I move in front of it & while I leave.
The LED is also on on opening which I done to prove it was same device.
That was in case someone claimed I was activating a different device . Whats the world coming to when a video isn't enough??:D

altor

KoolKid wrote: »

I enabled the LED for the purpose of the video.

So you are admitting opening the sensor thus putting it in walk test mode.
Makes a mockery of the video trying to prove me wrong.

KoolKid

altor wrote: »

Looks like his power saver is not working.

Here we go again Altor, another crazy argument, your just never sadisfied are you?
If sleep mode isn't working how come it didn't activate as I left??

altor

KoolKid wrote: »

Here we go again Altor, another crazy argument, your just never sadisfied are you?
If sleep mode isn't working how come it didn't activate as I left??

Not arguing, my video speaks for itself. It was you who went to the trouble of making a video in the first place to try prove me wrong. I have also tested this with C.TECH and got the same results. Visonic system, Visonic sensors, two at that.

If you cant do a test correctly don't blame me.

Thunderbird2

Most one way systems have a timer of 2 mins or more . The same with the Simon panel

KoolKid

Guess it must be my special PiRs . Maybe like the batteries I have that last longer than you claim. Guess Ill have to make a 4 year old film for that one.:rolleyes:
So now we have 2 different videos with 2 different results, interesting??
Maybe the times do vary on conditions, but that's my findings from lots of installations. You are claiming I have the PiR on walk test but yet you dont explain how I manage to walk out without it activating,
Anyway , at least we're converting you over , we have got you down to 2 minutes from, the up to 5 minutes you stated here:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056576790&page=2
You were a non believer on other things there until I posted a pic of the manual for you.

KoolKid

altor wrote: »

So you are admitting opening the sensor thus putting it in walk test mode.
Makes a mockery of the video trying to prove me wrong.

Yes I opened the PiR , Thats a silly statement really. It had to be opened to get it off the wall. If it was a new one it would have to be opened to power it up anyway.
The fact remains the PiR didn't activate as I left . I came back in a minute & a half later & it did.
The last thread with the five minutes was only March, mabe by summer you'll say different again.

Thunderbird2

Why didn't Altors activate for two mins and why did yours activate at 1.45?????