Wireless Alarm system

Thunderbird2

Ok agreed ... Il shall delete it ... Back to your war !!

KoolKid

altor wrote: »

There is no sleep mode when the PIR is in walk test mode.
walk test mode will keep active until it has no movement for 10 minutes.

But yet the PiR doesn't pick me up as I leave even though it shows closed on the keypad?
If its on walk test it works for 10 minutes right?
If its not on walk test it must be asleep.
Which one is it now?

altor wrote: »

The OP and everyone else deserves to know how the PIRs work on a one way system. Do you not agree?

I agree,
Which is why I'm glad we clarified the 5 minute nonsense.

altor wrote: »

One way systems have vulnerabilities. In my video the alarm was set at 12 seconds and did not activate till 6 minutes 32 seconds later.

Here comes the scaremongering again.
Any examples of a system been broken into with a minute & a half of been set.?
If your all for information for the posters then why did you say the sleep time can vary anything up to 5 minutes?

Thunderbird2

There's a chance someone could be broken into in that time ... Seems quite likely ... Why is it that entry exit times are kept short? ^^

altor

KoolKid wrote: »

But yet the PiR doesn't pick me up as I leave even though it shows closed on the keypad?
If its on walk test it works for 10 minutes right?
If its not on walk test it must be asleep.
Which one is it now?

It stays in walk test for 10 minutes when there is movement in front of the detector. If there is movement then it wont come out of walk test.
I am sure I have clarified this for you by now.

I am only relaying what I seen in the video.
The LED was on we agree, why was there no BEEP BEEP of the keypad once when you put the zone in test and again when you walked out and the LED came on?

There is something not right in your video.

One way is old technology now. Not agree?

KoolKid

Thunderbird2 wrote: »

There's a chance someone could be broken into in that time ... Seems quite likely

In over 20 years in the business I have never come across it happening.
Also remember this is only relevant if the PiR has been activated on the exit route.

altor wrote: »

It stays in walk test for 10 minutes when there is movement in front of the detector. If there is movement then it wont come out of walk test.
I am sure I have clarified this for you by now.

And I have said the PiR was closed up longer than that.

Thunderbird2 wrote: »

I am only relaying what I seen in the video.
The LED was on we agree, why was there no BEEP BEEP of the keypad once when you put the zone in test and again when you walked out and the LED came on?

The led was enabled, Im sure I clarified that.

As usual we are just going round in circles , you just love to contradict everyone. Your even contradicting yourself.

You claimed sleep time can be anything upto 5 minutes, now it must be 2 .Which is it?
You claimed the device was in walk test yet it doesn't activate when I leave . Is it in walk test or not?
You claimed the PiR showed open when I left yet the video shows it closed, which is it?
As usual , you will avoid the obvious & harp on what suits you & go round in circles over & over. Like I said your post history in these type of threads speaks for itself.

minder2009

Why dont ye agree to disagree!!

FRom a casual interested reader of the boards ...and to new people that
may have an interest in home security issues , these posts do not inspire confidence....Just an observation

KoolKid

Thunderbird2 wrote: »

There's a chance someone could be broken into in that time ... Seems quite likely ... Why is it that entry exit times are kept short? ^^

But I have agreed.
I looked at Altors video and said there may be other factors involved. I am not examing his video in forensic detail.
Altor himself said times can vary, yet he won't accept others results.
I am also not accusing Altor of faking anything.

minder2009

just from looking at it ,its just looks like a lot of "knit picking!!!"




One must defend one position I suppose!!!!

altor

The LED was on we agree on that.

KoolKid wrote: »

Look at the video again & listen . The PiR activates & then closes.

You are stating one thing here but I for one have not heard any indication of when you put the system in test that it activated a BEEP on the keypad indicating the zone open before you went out. Yes again I did see the PIRs LED activating which should of activated the beep on the keypad.

Now before you say you showed this in the state of the zone, it showed closed on the keypad.

Why was there no BEEP of the keypad once you put the zone in test, like we hear when you came back in as you are claiming?

KoolKid wrote: »

It does not activate again as I walk out .

It should of once you opened the zone as indicated by the LED?

Yet again we did not hear the sound of the BEEP on the keypad indicating the the zone open but again the led is on.

Can you explain this?

KoolKid

Over and over you still go.
Lets try simplify this.
Are you claiming the PIR was in walk test yes or no?

altor

The LED was on we agree on that.

KoolKid wrote: »

Look at the video again & listen . The PiR activates & then closes.

You are stating one thing here but I for one have not heard any indication of when you put the system in test that it activated a BEEP on the keypad indicating the zone open before you went out. Yes again I did see the PIRs LED activating which should of activated the beep on the keypad.

Now before you say you showed this in the state of the zone, it showed closed on the keypad.

Why was there no BEEP of the keypad once you put the zone in test, like we hear when you came back in as you are claiming?

KoolKid wrote: »

It does not activate again as I walk out .

It should of once you opened the zone as indicated by the LED?

Yet again we did not hear the sound of the BEEP on the keypad indicating the the zone open but again the led is on.

Can you explain this?

KoolKid

Is your whole argument based on the PIR??

KoolKid wrote: »

The led was enabled, Im sure I clarified that.

Is not relevant because I have shown the device not responding and then it does respond 90 seconds later. The fact that I can walk out of the room proves , by your own rules,that the PIR is not on walk test. Yet you still claim it is. And then you won't answer a simple simple yes or no when asked directly.
Again you go on and divert from what you either can't or won't answer.
When you ignore questions is hard to be taken serious in a debate.
Any chance of answers to the following:

You claimed sleep time can be anything upto 5 minutes, now it must be 2 .Which is it?
You claimed the device was in walk test yet it doesn't activate when I leave . Is it in walk test or not?
You claimed the PiR showed open when I left yet the video shows it closed, which is it?
Again ,are you claiming the PiR was on walk test? YES OR NO'

altor

Are you still not going to answer my questions?

KoolKid

I have stated the LED was enabled for the video. If there was no LED you would have concocted some other conspiracy theory.
The questions below are what's relevant to all the claims you're making. Yet as usual you won't answer. Why is that I wonder?
Or are you just living up to your usual stance when you stir up threads like this.

KoolKid wrote: »

You claimed sleep time can be anything upto 5 minutes, now it must be 2 .Which is it?
You claimed the device was in walk test yet it doesn't activate when I leave . Is it in walk test or not?
You claimed the PiR showed open when I left yet the video shows it closed, which is it?
Again ,are you claiming the PiR was on walk test? YES OR NO'

altor

Zone closed and put on test.



There is your PIR closed The PIR is on test but no beeps from the keypad even though the LED is on indicating the zone open.

I believe as you where still moving around in front of the PIR it was not given a chance to close. If the sensor was not in test mode it would of closed and went into its sleep mode or power save mode with all the movement in front of the PIR.

KoolKid wrote: »

That is how the powersave feature works. If you are in a room for 2 hours the PiR will stay asleep for that time. You not going to save much if it sleeps for 90 seconds & then keeps transmitting constantly for the next 119 minutes.

You walking out, still no indication from the keypad of an activation as the zone has not cleared with all the movement.



The PIR when you walk back in, LED on showing movement.



Zone showing open after 2 Beeps.

altor

Zone showing closed after the two beeps.



So again from when the PIR closed after the two beeps till you opened the sensor do we hear a sound from the keypad.
The LED is on which again means the PIR is still sensing movement and wont close. Just like when you walked out to do the 90 second test. From 2:05 till 2:27 the LED is on no indication again on the keypad even though the zone is closed.

KoolKid

Your still repeating the same thing over & over . You post up pictures from a video that's there for all to see, but you still won't answer the basic of questions?
Why?

You claimed sleep time can be anything up to 5 minutes, now it must be 2 .Which is it?
You claimed the device was in walk test yet it doesn't activate when I leave . Is it in walk test or not?
You claimed the PiR showed open when I left yet the video shows it closed, which is it?
Again ,are you claiming the PiR was on walk test? YES OR NO?

Either debate the points properly & answer the questions put or stop half making allegations. Your not even man enough to accuse me and answer the last question
are you claiming the PiR was on walk test? YES OR NO?
even though you keep saying you think it is.
Always the same, every debate like this you get into always ends the same , you avoid the questions you don't want to answer.
Enough people have said to me they have had enough of this thread & I agree.
I'm closing this thread as you are just going over the same things . I have answered you as best I can ,but you choose to ignore the things where you are contradicting yourself.
If you wish to post a reply answering those questions PM me & Ill happily open it & Ill happily debate with you in a rational manner.
I don't take this decision lightly because I am so much involved in this thread . If you feel its unjust, please feel free to contact another one of the mods here .

Thunderbird2

We don't see much of the pir .. It seems to be open

altor

KoolKid wrote: »

Your still repeating the same thing over & over . You post up pictures from a video that's there for all to see, but you still won't answer the basic of questions?
Why?

The reason for the pictures is to show the time stamp on each one. The time does simply not add up.

A PIR that is in walk test wont sleep unless it gets no movement for 10 minutes. I know that.

You where asked at the start by thunderbird2:

Thunderbird2 wrote: »

When you open a sensor to put it into walk test how long before it settles?

KoolKid wrote: »

]It will work once it wakes up again. What point are you making?

Thunderbird2 wrote: »

When you enroll a sensor via tamper is it not in walk test ? How long until it settles?

KoolKid wrote: »

It is in walk test & it comes out of walk test in a few minutes.

It takes 10 minutes to come out of walk test :eek:

KoolKid wrote: »

The PiR in the video is not one that was newly enrolled & its not in walk test.
The walk test is on the panel itself. As this is a one way device it does not know what state the panel is in either way.

When you opened the PIR to take it down off the walk it went into walk test.
The PIR being an old or new PIR would have no bearing on what you are explaining here. Walk test on the panel will open and close the zone.
We have seen this at the end of the video but the detector remaining open as indicated by the LED being on did not have an affect on the Beeping from the panel.

KoolKid wrote: »

You can also see at the start of the video that the device is asleep & does not transmit open as I stand in front of it & walk out the door.
Again, what point are you trying to make.?

It does not transmit as the PIR is still open, have a look at the LED when you came back in the back door.

LED on, zone closed, taken down the PIR, LED on, still no indication from the panel to indicate the walk test :eek:
From 2:05 till 2:27 the LED is on no indication again on the keypad even though the zone is closed. As you can see at 2:05.

How do you explain this ?
Your theory that the sensor is asleep again?????

KoolKid wrote: »

You claimed sleep time can be anything up to 5 minutes, now it must be 2 .Which is it?

Sleep time for the visonic sensors is 2 minutes, I have not stated anything differently in this thread.
I know in another thread I stated 3-5 minutes, we all no that as you keep bringing it up. I was wrong and have since tested this many times to be certain and get the same results. I have also tested this for an hour one day with C.TECH.

We also got the same result time after time.

I did state in this thread:

[QUOTE=altor;78888450]PIRs on the older Powermax systems will go asleep for 2 minutes, not 1 and a half minutes as has being suggested, also if you keep walking in front of a PIR on the powermax complete system the timer will keep resetting meaning you could be moving around in the room all day without the PIR activating.[/QUOTE]

KoolKid wrote: »

You claimed the device was in walk test yet it doesn't activate when I leave . Is it in walk test or not?

You claimed the PiR showed open when I left yet the video shows it closed, which is it?

LED on, zone closed, taken down the PIR, LED on, still no indication from the panel to indicate the walk test :eek:
From 2:05 till 2:27 the LED is on no indication again on the keypad even though the zone is closed. As you can see at 2:05.


Again ,are you claiming the PiR was on walk test? YES OR NO?

I am claiming your video is misleading and everything leads me to believe that the detector is in test mode. The sensor not sleeping with all the movement is also another factor I have taken into consideration.
If it was not then can you explain this

Again this is another answer we never received:

KoolKid wrote: »

You can also see at the start of the video that the device is asleep & does not transmit open as I stand in front of it & walk out the door.

[/QUOTE]

And again:

KoolKid wrote:

Look at the video again & listen . The PiR activates & then closes.

You are stating something here but I for one have not heard any indication of when you put the system in test that it activated a BEEP on the keypad indicating the zone open before you went out.

KoolKid wrote: »

Either debate the points properly & answer the questions put or stop half making allegations. Your not even man enough to accuse me and answer the last question
are you claiming the PiR was on walk test? YES OR NO?
even though you keep saying you think it is.

I am claiming your video is misleading and does not add up which leads me to believe that the detector is in test mode.

Clarification, not a chance with the way it was done.

Thunderbird2

Afraid il have to agree with Altor as the video isn't very clear

KoolKid

altor wrote: »

A PIR that is in walk test wont sleep unless it gets no movement for 10 minutes. I know that.

altor wrote: »

When you opened the PIR to take it down off the walk it went into walk test.

I have said it was more than 10 minutes.

altor wrote: »

It does not transmit as the PIR is still open, have a look at the LED when you came back in the back door.

When I come back in it does transmit & the PiR opens & closes.
At 2:03 you hear the beep
At 2:04.10 it shows open on the screen and @ 2:04.80 the screen shows closed. When did it open again?

altor wrote: »

From 2:05 till 2:27 the LED is on no indication again on the keypad even though the zone is closed. As you can see at 2:05.

There is constant movement as I am taking it down to open it.
It doesn't transmit constant movement. I thought that's what we were discussing.

altor wrote: »

I was wrong and have since tested this many times to be certain and get the same results.

So then have you also changed your mind that times can vary.?
As soon as I agree with this , you change your mind? Talk about looking for an argument.

KoolKid wrote: »

Again ,are you claiming the PiR was on walk test? YES OR NO?

altor wrote: »

I am claiming your video is misleading and everything leads me to believe that the detector is in test mode.

So if its in test mode how did I walk out with out it picking me up.
It wasn't open as you claim. At 21 seconds you can see it shows closed.
I even take my time walking out till 29 seconds.
If the PiR was on walk test it would have opened.

altor wrote: »

A PIR that is in walk test wont sleep unless it gets no movement for 10 minutes. I know that.

altor wrote: »

You are stating something here but I for one have not heard any indication of when you put the system in test that it activated a BEEP on the keypad indicating the zone open before you went out

On looking over it again its not obvious but it does open once & then close.
What's relevant, is that it shows closed as I stated above & does not open as I leave. By your own definitions it can not be on walk test.

altor wrote: »

A PIR that is in walk test wont sleep unless it gets no movement for 10 minutes. I know that.

altor wrote: »

I am claiming your video is misleading and does not add up which leads me to believe that the detector is in test mode.

Again I walked by it leaving the room
Again your rules:

altor wrote: »

A PIR that is in walk test wont sleep unless it gets no movement for 10 minutes. I know that.

You claim my information is misleading, while there are all these contradictions from your analysis.
I think the bottom line is your never going to accept anything as proof.
As I said I was/am willing to concede the times may vary with some other factors involved and I accept your findings of 2 minutes..
I think the main thing to come out of this thread is that the claims of 5 minutes of sleep times have been shown to be wrong. That was unfair to people looking for reliable information & unfair to Visonic.
There is enough information for users to make an informed decision here .
We are just repeating ourselves now. Lets leave it at that.

KK

delly

Thread is reopening. altor has some information on the matter that he wants to post. If it ends up going in roundabouts again, then we'll close it.

altor

Thanks Delly,

I have being on to Visonic to get a final answer on this.
They have sent me an E-mail of tests performed on a PIR in sleep mode.

I have also received permission to show the E-mail on boards.ie



I hope this clarifies that it is 2 minutes.

KoolKid

I thought you had something new to post. That's why we opened this thread .I have already agreed with your findings of 2 minutes.So I fail to see the purpose of this email.
I am happy however that Visonic have confirmed your outlandish claims of 5 minutes sleep time we wrong.

altor wrote: »

. In the Powermax one way wireless systems when the system is set the wireless devices may still be asleep for up to 3-5minutes.

I was,however, hoping for something backing up the claim that my device was on walk test,while also explaining how I was clearly able to walk by it while leaving.
Perhaps I had a magic PiR :rolleyes: Maybe something like your special meter & special cable you use here.http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056655452&page=2
On that thread you were willing to argue with everyone that zero resistance is possible, here you are again arguing over 30 seconds even though you were originally wrong by 3 minutes.

Jnealon

KoolKid

Couldn't agree more.;)
There really is no arguing with someone who replys

altor wrote: »

Really???
Are you trying to say I lie?
Here we go again....

Just because you try to tell him its impossible to have zero resistance.:eek:
Some people just love to argue. No matter how much you try to explain things.

Thunderbird2

KoolKid wrote: »

Couldn't agree more.;)
There really is no arguing with someone who replys

altor wrote: »

Really???
Are you trying to say I lie?
Here we go again....

Just because you try to tell him its impossible to have zero resistance.:eek:
Some people just love to argue. No matter how much you try to explain things.

What point are you trying to make KoolKid? How is that of any relevance to this thread? ?

Thunderbird2

KoolKid wrote: »

I thought you had something new to post. That's why we opened this thread .I have already agreed with your findings of 2 minutes.So I fail to see the purpose of this email.
I am happy however that Visonic have confirmed your outlandish claims of 5 minutes sleep time we wrong.

altor wrote: »

. In the Powermax one way wireless systems when the system is set the wireless devices may still be asleep for up to 3-5minutes.

I was,however, hoping for something backing up the claim that my device was on walk test,while also explaining how I was clearly able to walk by it while leaving.
Perhaps I had a magic PiR :rolleyes: Maybe something like your special meter & special cable you use here.http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056655452&page=2
On that thread you were willing to argue with everyone that zero resistance is possible, here you are again arguing over 30 seconds even though you were originally wrong by 3 minutes.

It also proves that your video is misleading

KoolKid

I am making the point that no matter what's said some people will still argue.Even when something is blatantly obvious. I will go further & say in that thread he was trolling. Because there is no way someone who installs alarms for a living could not understand or know what the resistance should be on an alarm zone.
I have agreed with the 2 minutes pages ago yet Altor still keeps arguing over 30 seconds. Even though he himself originally argued that it could be 5 minutes. Sure he even posts up an email from Visonic contradicting himself.

KoolKid

Thunderbird2 wrote: »

It also proves that your video is misleading

What's misleading is someone making claims that the device is in walk test and is not asleep & yet refusing to explain how I manage to walk out by the PiR without it activating.

This has gone on enough & still its the same stuff over & over. It was opened because Altor said he had something new to add. All that was posted was Visonic confirming his 2 minutes. Something I have agreed with already, If someone has something new to add let us know. Otherwise enough is enough.