Knock Airport

cgill

cgill wrote: »

"Knock Airport saved in historic deal"

mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=21132:historic-deal-saves-knock-airport&catid=23:news&Itemid=46

Brilliant news for the airport!

Link doesn't work http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=21132:historic-deal-saves-knock-airport&catid=23:news&Itemid=46

I hope they follow up this purchase of 17.5% with they needed investment, this has happened before where the saviour has in fact done nothing other than kick the can down the road and a few years later a new saviour is needed. Not a great start when they had to borrow the 7.5m

cgill

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Link doesn't work http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=21132:historic-deal-saves-knock-airport&catid=23:news&Itemid=46

Apologies im still only a new user so cant post links.

JCX BXC

First of all, I would like to congratulate Knock on their achievement of getting their Debt wiped. It has no longer any reason to blaim Shannon for a fall in passenger numbers because it also got the same as Shannon! Hopefully now knock may entice more flights and make nessiscary improvements to it's operations. I Wish knock the best of luck!

The article on Mayo news is very misleading though. It saves knock? Knock just had its best ever year in the history of the airport? What's it saving knock from?

cgill

Carnacalla wrote: »

The article on Mayo news is very misleading though. It saves knock? Knock just had its best ever year in the history of the airport? What's it saving knock from?

This year was Knock's best year, next year wont be, partly because of Shannon getting some of their routes. Knock and Shannon will always be competitors so the blame game will constantly be played. This is hopefully the start of Knock being able to become self-sufficient and fully profitable.

I imagine routes went to Shannon as they are offering very good deals to entice new routes in.

Knock needs a few extra stands near the terminal building, and a few other things. If Knock could afford a few new routes offers it might help.

There's probably 90-120 mins driving between the two airports in sure both could survive independently of each other and expand their routes.

Cosmo Kramer

Well anything that can be done at this stage is to be welcomed, but let's not kid ourselves into thinking anything resembling the Shannon deal (€100m plus add ons) will be on offer here. Firstly, a loan has to be taken out to pay the debt - which isn't exactly encouraging - and secondly there's talk of infrastructural funding but no concrete announcement.

In terms of the debt it is interesting that Shannon's was wiped clean and paid for by the users of Dublin Airport (and by extension the taxpayer as the profits generasted by these passengers were not returned to government) but Knock's far smaller debts are lumbered on the local Councils. Let's see what announcement, if any, comes about in the new year but I suspect it will be a pittance compared to what Shannon received.

JCX BXC

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

Well anything that can be done at this stage is to be welcomed, but let's not kid ourselves into thinking anything resembling the Shannon deal (€100m plus add ons) will be on offer here. Firstly, a loan has to be taken out to pay the debt - which isn't exactly encouraging - and secondly there's talk of infrastructural funding but no concrete announcement.

In terms of the debt it is interesting that Shannon's was wiped clean and paid for by the users of Dublin Airport (and by extension the taxpayer as the profits generasted by these passengers were not returned to government) but Knock's far smaller debts are lumbered on the local Councils. Let's see what announcement, if any, comes about in the new year but I suspect it will be a pittance compared to what Shannon received.

Nothing is good enough for knock is it?
From reading your post you would swear that a very poor Dublin Airport authority had to pay a rich Shannon €100 for the fun of it. Shannon actually got no funding! Believe it or not if Knock got funding they would be doing well.

I feel like a parrot at this tangent, but Shannon did not get a sweetheart deal or whatever you people who blaim someone else for even the smallest problems call it. Shannon was given Independence (something that knock has had for years BTW) and set up as a new state Entity without debt. The debt was in the DAA, was caused under the control of the DAA, and will stay in the DAA. The DAA took control Aer Rianta out of shannon and used their profits to build their precious new T2. All these companies the DAA has control of benefits dublin to a far larger extent than Shannon, but I do not see complying about that. Shannon Development was given Shannon Airport, but it must operate by itself and funds cannot be put into Shannon.

If anything, Knock got a government donation! Mayo County Council will actually give Knock funds! Possibly some to build infrastructure! If this happened at Shannon by god people here would have a heart attack.

So basically, shut up and stop moaning and realise that this is amazing news for Knock, it got what it wanted and possibly more.

Cosmo Kramer

Nonsense, Knock didn't run up €100m of debt in the first place like Shannon did, if it did it would have been forced to close long ago and would have had no chance of being bailed out in the way that Shannon was.

Knock's survival, maybe at times even borderline success, is down to the hard work of the management and the willingness of the local population to put their hands in their pockets every time they use the facility to allow it to be retained for the good of the region.

Now, if the people of the mid west were told that they would have to pay €10 every time they used Shannon for 10 years plus just to keep it operating they might have that heart attack you are talking about alright but that's what the people of the west have been willing to do at Knock. No such worries down at Shannon, someone else will pay for it.

So far, all that has been done with this press release is that existing debt has been moved from one pot into another but maybe, just maybe, there will be an announcement in the new year that will finally see some return on the investment made over the years by the users of Knock.

vkid

Is it just me or is a county council getting involved in the debt of an airport completely baffling.

cgill

vkid wrote: »

Is it just me or is a county council getting involved in the debt of an airport completely baffling.

It's not that unusual. The local businesses and counties are stakeholders and it's the same as anyone buying shares in a company and it's similar to a grant. The county councils will be recovering this money again over the years thanks to the future success of Knock in addition to holding shares.

Cosmo Kramer

Well Derry City Council fund City of Derry Airport by about £4m per annum to keep the place open so it is not without precedent. However, I am not aware of this approach being used before on this side of the border.

JCX BXC

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

Nonsense, Knock didn't run up €100m of debt in the first place like Shannon did, if it did it would have been forced to close long ago and would have had no chance of being bailed out in the way that Shannon was.

No, but knock did run up debt. Shannon ran up excessive debt because it had terrible management up in the DAA, who really didn't care much to its success, where as knock had and has devoted management. Sure shannons debt was 13 times higher than knock, but it has far larger grounds, a deeply troubled pension scheme and alot more staff.

Now, if the people of the mid west were told that they would have to pay €10 every time they used Shannon for 10 years plus just to keep it operating they might have that heart attack you are talking about alright but that's what the people of the west have been willing to do at Knock. No such worries down at Shannon, someone else will pay for it.

I do not agree with a €10 charge, reasons of which I have listed above.
Are you also saying that people in the midwest are not supportive of their airport? Do you think they organised protests in Limerick over the past few years for nothing?

That last comment is highly hypocritical, considering Knock is getting its debt written off.

So far, all that has been done with this press release is that existing debt has been moved from one pot into another but maybe, just maybe, there will be an announcement in the new year that will finally see some return on the investment made over the years by the users of Knock.

The debt was not moved, it was more kept in the same place. And if there is investment returning to Knock, great! But then it is getting a government handout. No way around it. Plain giving money to an airport.

Im not against knock, I would love to see it do well! The west coast needs an economic boost and there is no doubt that Knock and Shannon can bring this along. But some points you have made are quite ridiculous.

BowWow

cgill wrote: »

The county councils will be recovering this money again over the years thanks to the future success of Knock in addition to holding shares.

Good luck with that.............

Cosmo Kramer

Carnacalla wrote: »

I do not agree with a €10 charge, reasons of which I have listed above.
Are you also saying that people in the midwest are not supportive of their airport? Do you think they organised protests in Limerick over the past few years for nothing?

I think it is blatantly obvious that people down there are very supportive of their airport, but I can only imagine the uproar we would all be subjected to if such a scheme was proposed for Shannon. Protesting in the streets and shouting populist slogans is a lot cheaper and easier than actually paying your way. It is all good and well saying you don't agree with the charge, and it is certainly not ideal that it exists, but I haven't seen you come up with a realistic alternative to it. Maybe they will be able to find a way to remove it, but it exists for a reason and I suspect it won't be going anywhere anytime soon. We have lived with it and will continue to.

Carnacalla wrote: »

That last comment is highly hypocritical, considering Knock is getting its debt written off.

How so? The debt (one thirteenth of Shannon's debt as you point out) will be covered by the local authorities, funded by rates payers, so once again it will be serviced locally. The people of the west will end up paying for it either way - there isn't the luxury of a massive bailout on offer here - indeed Knock has been managed well enough that one isn't needed thankfully.

I am obviously happy that there appears to be some sort of effort being made to counter the imbalanced situation created at Shannon by Noonan and Co. but the devil is in the detail and we haven't seen much of that yet. All we know is that the modest debts accrued will be serviced within the region. Just to clarify, I would have no problem with that as long as it is applied consistently across the country, but that isn't what happened at Shannon. The rates payers of Tipp North and South, Limerick City and County and Clare are not being asked to pay up in the same way as the western authorities are.

Masala

Shannon actually got no funding!...c'mon that's only playing with words here. It got a New terminal built for it and got it 'written off'. There's plenty of ways to skin a cat...

Shannon was set up as a new state Entity without debt..... great... so what's the difference on whether Mayo Council carry it for Knock or in the DAA carry it for SNN. Now Knock is an entity without Debt.

The debt was in the DAA, was caused under the control of the DAA, and will stay in the DAA.... well goody for Shannon. Why can't they do the same for Cork then??

Shannon Development was given Shannon Airport, but it must operate by itself and funds cannot be put into Shannon....you don't really believe that do you???. They are now in a private Group and all money is in the pot....... At least SNN has a Pot! And a nice little pot it is...

JCX BXC

Masala wrote: »

Shannon actually got no funding!...c'mon that's only playing with words here. It got a New terminal built for it and got it 'written off'. There's plenty of ways to skin a cat...

Shannon was set up as a new state Entity without debt..... great... so what's the difference on whether Mayo Council carry it for Knock or in the DAA carry it for SNN. Now Knock is an entity without Debt.

The debt was in the DAA, was caused under the control of the DAA, and will stay in the DAA.... well goody for Shannon. Why can't they do the same for Cork then??

Shannon Development was given Shannon Airport, but it must operate by itself and funds cannot be put into Shannon....you don't really believe that do you???. They are now in a private Group and all money is in the pot....... At least SNN has a Pot! And a nice little pot it is...

He he new terminal 14 years ago! That has been well paid for How much did knock pay for its terminal?

Knock is still the same as it was, whereas Shannon was completely re-established.

They should do the same for cork and it is a disgrace that they have not done. They have plans to do this though.

I do believe that! Why wouldn't I? Shannon cannot dip its hand into the pot of shannon development and I'm sure there is legislation to stop this.

BowWow

6 of the 7 Councils supporting this, were not able to reduce the Local Property Tax for next year. The seventh, Mayo, reduced it by only 3%.
So in addition to paying the €10 fee, locals are paying more in LPT to keep this airport open.

yew_tree

Some good news, the survival of the airport is very important. As someone from and living from Mayo, naturally I am biased. Knock can survive and thrive as a useful airport getting to the UK and hopefully more European mainland destinations and the sun holiday traffic.

Interesting I flew to Liverpool at the weekend and met a large group from Limerick on the flight back. They said they couldn't get a flight from Shannon but were more than happy to use Knock next as it was handier than getting in and out of Dublin as they put it.

Knock will never be a transatlantic hub like Shannon but the two can co-exist.

cgill

BowWow wrote: »

Good luck with that.............

Well theres no reason why they wouldnt. The whole reason that so many councils are getting involved with the airport is because of how much it contributes to the region! The council is the same as a business theyre not going to spend money for no justified reason - dont be fooled, the councils wont be making a loss on this....

highlydebased

An extra €2m is being made available to regional airports, according to this http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/regional-airports-get-additional-2m-in-funding-654135.html

Neworder79

An extra €2m is being made available to regional airports, according to this http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/r...ng-654135.html

It's not extra funding, €2m is the annual OPEX payment (Core Airport Management Operational Expenditure Subvention) for the 4 regional airports.

The article is combining the total of OPEX, PSO and Capital investmant projects which is the €13m already budgeted Regional Airports program.

---

The real news is Gov have decided to extend the Regional Airports program beyond 2014 for 10 years.
To qualify each airport will be required to submit a realistic Business Plan to grow to self sustainability (like the IWAK funding plan).

State investment in capital projects was limited to 10% of total cost under EU rules. A new EU infrastructure stimulus program will allow airports apply for a larger EU fund if approved.

air2000

Looks like both MAN & BHX services finish at the end of March, BHX no longer bookable for the summer.

Seems the same for Waterford

JCX BXC

air2000 wrote: »

Looks like both MAN & BHX services finish at the end of March, BHX no longer bookable for the summer.

Seems the same for Waterford

Man is now bookable. Bhx possibly going to Shannon.

highlydebased

NOC-BHX was loaded up but blocked off yesterday- i.e if you selected dates up to September the times were there but unbookable. Today it is only loaded up until end of March

JCX BXC

Documentary about the Duty Free shop in the airport on RTE1 now. Finishes at 9, its interesting. If you haven't seen it I recommend you watch it on the RTE player

cgill

http://travelextra.wordpress.com/tag/falcon-holidays/

Have a look about a quarter of the way down the page, confirms that Cologne service has been moved to Shannon.

JCX BXC

cgill wrote: »

http://travelextra.wordpress.com/tag/falcon-holidays/

Have a look about a quarter of the way down the page, confirms that Cologne service has been moved to Shannon.

My god they are long! Took a good 5 minutes of skimming to find that part.

Crumbs868

Carnacalla wrote: »

Documentary about the Duty Free shop in the airport on RTE1 now. Finishes at 9, its interesting. If you haven't seen it I recommend you watch it on the RTE player

Wow that ryanair flight featured looked almost empty, was there even a 20% load?

Airport staff came across well to be fair, means a lot to the area. Hope they maintain their record years growth into 2015 but sounds like it will be a challenge

conor_ie

Carnacalla wrote: »

Documentary about the Duty Free shop in the airport on RTE1 now. Finishes at 9, its interesting. If you haven't seen it I recommend you watch it on the RTE player

Can you post a link please?

notharrypotter

RTE player.

If its not working.
Go to rte website.
Open player.
Yesterdays programs.
Fergal Quinns retail therapy.