Knock Airport

JCX BXC

Of the €100m debt wiped from SNN, how much of it went towards expansion?

Whereas this cash is for knock expansion.

You could easily create a solid argument that the debt wipe from Shannon drew a level playing field from Dublin, which has taken a Shannon based company and its profits in return for €100m. If anything, Knock is getting free handouts and Shannon is just getting back some of the money it shoild have gotten.

Although what's the point of that?

notharrypotter

I believe 75-90% is EU funded.

Incorrect its Irish money.

The EU has capped the maximum amount of "State Aid" that the taxpayer can donate.
For airports of less than 1 million passengers its 75% for CAPEX.

For OPEX its not so clear as certin activities currently provided will now be deemed exempt from the calculation and will be indirectly covered by the state.

The figures in relation to State Aid also cover all state agencies so will the assumption of Knock dept by the local authorities also be included for calculation?

The government funding can only be handed out for safety improvements

Nope but it is deliberatly proposing that certain things would be deemed non-economic and would be assessed differently.


From the Dept of transport website.

as long as they can argue holding A320s on an active runway is unsafe they'll get funding for s bigger apron

How is it unsafe?
There were no other aircraft inbound so its perfectly safe.

So today my plane had to wait for 20-25 mins on the active runway as there was no stand available it landed 5 mins early but was 20 mins late on stand !

A member of the cabin crew was miffed thats all.

It desperately needs this if it's to get more flights

Google the NOTAM's for the opening hours of Knock airport.
Compare this with the scheduled arrival/departure times.
There is a huge amount of spare capacity.

Stagger the arrival times by a further 10 min and hey presto the problem is solved.

man98

The government announcement on that has been quite misleading, I've been told so by airport management staff...

notharrypotter

man98 wrote: »

The government announcement on that has been quite misleading, I've been told so by airport management staff...

In what way?

man98

notharrypotter wrote: »

In what way?

Most of the money sanctioned is for safety improvements. Very little wriggle room.

Jamie2k9

0.2% growth in September, first of the summer months.

JCX BXC

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

0.2% growth in September, first of the summer months.

Helped by the new Turkish charter?

Pat Dunne

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

0.2% growth in September, first of the summer months.

Was 0.2% in Sept, the first recorded increase in PAX numbers during the whole of the 2015 summer period?

Would you have a link with the stats, thanks.

Jamie2k9

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

0.2% growth in September, first of the summer months.

It was the best September in Knocks History. UK and Europe destinations up 10 and 12% respectively.

http://www.ittn.ie/news/busiest-september-in-ireland-west-airport-knocks-history/

http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=22900:record-september-passenger-numbers-for-knock&catid=23:news&Itemid=46

“The double digit growth in particular on our UK services is most welcome and research carried out during the summer has highlighted the airport’s location as the central access point to the Wild Atlantic Way as a key reason for the increasing numbers of UK tourists visiting the West of Ireland.”

Jamie2k9

Deleted User wrote: »

It was the best September in Knocks History. UK and Europe destinations up 10 and 12% respectively.

http://www.ittn.ie/news/busiest-september-in-ireland-west-airport-knocks-history/

http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=22900:record-september-passenger-numbers-for-knock&catid=23:news&Itemid=46

63,853 in September 2014, somebody can't do %'s as it's far from 10% growth...

JCX BXC

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

63,853 in September 2014, somebody can't do %'s as it's far from 10% growth...

Notice it said a 12% increase on certain European routes. KUN, LPA, EIN and PIK are all scrapped.

Jamie2k9

Pat Dunne wrote: »

Was 0.2% in Sept, the first recorded increase in PAX numbers during the whole of the 2015 summer period?

Would you have a link with the stats, thanks.

Jan-Mar saw double digit growth while April/May saw below 4% before declining up to 6% in June/July and 20% in August.

Pat Dunne

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Jan-Mar saw double digit growth while April/May saw below 4% before declining up to 6% in June/July and 20% in August.

Thanks for the update. I have just checked their website and found the following

64,000 Passengers Travel Through Ireland West Airport Knock In September Making It The Busiest September In The Airports History

12/10/2015

Ireland West Airport Knock recorded another major milestone last month experiencing its busiest ever month of September, with a total of 64,011 passengers passing through the airport terminal.

Passenger numbers using the airports 7 UK services increased by 10% whilst numbers using continental European services to the likes of Alicante, Malaga, Faro, Tenerife and Lanzarote increased by 12% contributing to a record month for the airport.

All of the airports main airline partners, Flybe, Aer Lingus & Ryanair showed an increase in passenger numbers and more importantly strong increases in load factor during the month.

Commenting on the record numbers for September, Joe Gilmore, Managing Director Ireland West Airport, said “We are delighted to have recorded our busiest month of September in the airports history. It’s another very proud milestone to reach and further demonstrates that passengers are increasingly choosing the convenience of flying from their regional airport. The double digit growth in particular on our UK services is most welcome and research carried out during the summer has highlighted the airports location as the central access point to the Wild Atlantic Way, as a key reason for the increasing numbers of UK tourists visiting the West of Ireland’

- See more at: http://m.irelandwestairport.com/newsSingle.php?id=52#sthash.aTlYacMz.dpuf

Your figure of 0.2% seems to be at variance with the per centages quoted in their press release.

Have you a link to your quoted figures?

JCX BXC

Pat Dunne wrote: »

Thanks for the update. I have just checked their website and found the following
Your figure of 0.2% seems to be at variance with the per centages quoted in their Press Release.

Have you a link to your quoted figures?

http://www.cso.ie/px/pxeirestat/Statire/SelectVarVal/define.asp?MainTable=CTM01&ProductID=DB_CT&PLanguage=0&Tabstrip=&PXSId=0&SessID=2405891&FF=1&tfrequency=12

Try this one.

highlydebased

63,697 in Sept 2014 according to CSO.

So an extra 314 pax this September.

highlydebased

A local TD would like Knock to become a Chinese visitor hub. Beijing-Knock direct, anyone?
http://oceanfm.ie/td-says-knock-airport-could-be-used-as-chinese-visitor-hub/

Balf

highlydebased wrote: »

A local TD would like Knock to become a Chinese visitor hub. Beijing-Knock direct, anyone?
http://oceanfm.ie/td-says-knock-airport-could-be-used-as-chinese-visitor-hub/

Here's the full exchange, for those unaware of the kind of strategic dialogue that typically takes place in our national parliament.

http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/DebatesWebPack.nsf/takes/dail2015101300041?opendocument

The Taoiseach: <...> This scheme, which is commencing today, has the potential to create a favourable environment for the development of significant maintenance, repair, overhaul and dismantling operations. It will be of benefit to all airports, including regional airports like Ireland West Airport Knock, when presenting a business plan to potential investors, and will help to entice investment into the country in the aviation services sector at the airports around the country.<...>

Deputy Denis Naughten: I welcome the proposal. I want to acknowledge the work the Taoiseach and the other Deputies in Mayo have done in this regard. The proposal came before us in the House two years ago and we opposed it at the time because the focus was very much on Shannon Airport to the exclusion of Ireland West Airport Knock. I am glad the Taoiseach has clarified this and glad the Government has listened to the concerns of Members of this House on all sides who have put forward the case for Ireland West Airport. There is a significant landbank available at Ireland West Airport, so there is potential to attract an investor and to create jobs at that location. It was always the objective, with the establishment of Ireland West Airport Knock, that it would not just be an airport but would act as a stimulus to create jobs, not just in County Mayo but in the adjoining counties of Sligo, Leitrim Roscommon and Galway. I commend the Government for its proposal.

Hopefully, this can build on the initiative we saw during the summer when a charter aeroplane from the United States came to Knock with a pilgrimage, the first such flight to come from the United States. I want to flag with the Taoiseach that we should not be just looking west but also east. There are 12 million Catholics in China, for example, but we still do not have direct flights from China into Ireland. We are potentially losing out on €800 million per annum, which is what the New Zealand Government is bringing in, based on a strategic, targeted programme of bringing Chinese tourists into New Zealand. Ireland gets approximately 110 Chinese tourists per day whereas New Zealand gets approximately 820, despite the fact Ireland is nearer than New Zealand to mainland China. There is the potential to grow this figure. It is about establishing the relationship, opening up visas to allow access and getting direct flights from mainland China into Ireland. I would like to see Ireland West Airport play a role in that. It would be great if we could bring such tourists directly into our region and use this as a focus to develop the tourism sector across the western seaboard and the midlands.

I thank the Taoiseach for his clarification that Ireland West Airport will be able to avail of this support.

Ireland is closer to China than New Zealand. I didn't know that.

JCX BXC

12 million catholics in China? Out of 1200million people? Wow what a market:rolleyes::rolleyes:

jmayo

Carnacalla wrote: »

12 million catholics in China? Out of 1200million people? Wow what a market:rolleyes::rolleyes:

It is not the percentage of their total population that matters, it is still 12 million which is a hefty enough number.
That would be nearly 3 times or own population.

It is more than the population of most European countries such as Belgium, Greece, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Austria, Finland, Sweden, Denmark, Bulgaria, Croatia, Switzerland, Norway, etc.

The Catholic population of Canada is around 12 million.
Would you dismiss that market ?

As for getting in Chinese tourists in preference to them going to New Zealand I don't know.
Personally I think South Island NZ has a whole lot more to offer than Ireland.
We could get them as part of a European tour or tour of Britain and Ireland.

JCX BXC

See, that's where your wrong it does matter. We already have a large inbound market from the wealthy country of Canada. We don't exactly have the best inbound market from China, a country where the average citizen earns around at least 10 times less than an Irish citizen.

Also, a route to Beijing isn't all of China, unlike Ireland China is a very very large country with its population not focused on one city.

jmayo

Carnacalla wrote: »

See, that's where your wrong it does matter. We already have a large inbound market from the wealthy country of Canada. We don't exactly have the best inbound market from China, a country where the average citizen earns around at least 10 times less than an Irish citizen.

Also, a route to Beijing isn't all of China, unlike Ireland China is a very very large country with its population not focused on one city.

Ehh China has now the second most millionaires in the world, second to the US, and they are creating them at a much faster pace.
They have over 7 million millionaries.
Maybe some of them have take a hit over the last year, but they are still a big chunk of wealthy people.

Now the average salary may be much poorer than ours and they may have many millions of workers earning shag all, but they have a very sizable chunk doing quiet well.
That is the chunk that has the money to spend.

And yes we know the population of China is not all centered around one city apropos good old Ireland.

But where do most international airlines fly into ?
Beijing is one of the major airports along with Guangzhou Baiyun (which serves the area down near Hong Kong) and the ones around Shanghai.

Beijing handled over 86 million passengers in 2014.
That is one nice size airport.
Guangzhou Baiyun handled only 54 million odd.
See which is biggest ?

Accoridng to similar figures Dublin handled over 21 million in 2014 and at peaks in 06/07 handled only about 23 million odd.

BTW I am not arguing that flights to knock is a good idea, it is bit silly to think people with absolutely no connection to the country (ancestor wise) would want to land in middle of nowhere to go see a marian shrine.

But I do think flights to Dublin might be more of a runner.

What I do have an issue with is the way you seem to be dismissing China as a market and having direct links to it.

JCX BXC

China is a market, but not for inbound pilgrimages nor for Knock Airport. The thought of a route from China-Knock is even a little laughable. Dublin has the market for a chinese route, show me where i denied this?

jmayo

jmayo wrote: »

What I do have an issue with is the way you seem to be dismissing China as a market and having direct links to it.

You'll have to remember for the future jmayo that Carnacalla does not care about the content of your post on China. If you replaced Waterford with Knock he would not of responded at all. You mentioned Knock airport and that is enough for his little ears to perk up.

Just look up any thread anywhere on Knock, and Carn is there running it down. Its kinda boring and transparent but its sadly what he does again and again. Like most you'll learn to ignore him after a while.

JCX BXC

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You have to remember for the future jmayo that Carnacalla does not care about the content of your post on China. If you replaced Waterford with Knock he would not of responded at all. You mentioned Knock airport and that is enough for his little ears to perk up.

Just look up any thread anywhere on Knock, and Carn is there running it down. Its kinda sad and transparent but its what he does. Like most you'll learn to ignore him after a while.

Good evening mayomaffia
I missed this mumble jumble. It's you who infact uses whatever you can against me but I can asure you it doesnt affect my sleep at night! Have a quick look over the thread over the thread and see what I have contributed. The knock fanboyey stuff is the stuff that does annoy me and I respond appropriately to. Do you honestly think you could even half fill a plane from China to Knock? Of course I would never turn around and give such a personal attack on a forum. How about we cut the childishness? Thanks. I wish to contribute to this fourm, and hope you do to, but that above isn't contributing, it seems closer to the childish rambles of a YouTube comments section.

Also: Read over my posts, I infact mentioned knock once in the Chinese discussion.
Anyway how about we get back on topic?

Tenger

Deleted User wrote: »

......
Just look up any thread anywhere on Knock, and Carn is there running it down. Its kinda boring and transparent but its sadly what he does again and again. Like most you'll learn to ignore him after a while.

If you want to add to the discussion then do so. Jumping in to accuse another poster of something does not add to the discussion.

jmayo

Carnacalla wrote: »

12 million catholics in China? Out of 1200million people? Wow what a market:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Very dismissive of 12 million Chinese no matter if they were flying into knock, Cork, or even Dublin.

Carnacalla wrote: »

See, that's where your wrong it does matter. We already have a large inbound market from the wealthy country of Canada. We don't exactly have the best inbound market from China, a country where the average citizen earns around at least 10 times less than an Irish citizen.

Also, a route to Beijing isn't all of China, unlike Ireland China is a very very large country with its population not focused on one city.

Once your point about how little 12 million was of the overall Chinese population was blown out of the water, you jumped on your next bandwagon about how poor they were in relation to for instance the population of Canada.

Then of course a route to Bejing wasn't good enough as it didn't cover 50% plus of the nations population ala Ireland.

Carnacalla wrote: »

China is a market, but not for inbound pilgrimages nor for Knock Airport. The thought of a route from China-Knock is even a little laughable. Dublin has the market for a chinese route, show me where i denied this?

Why couldn't you have said something along those lines in the first place rather than just rubbishing other points frankly with lazy childish counter arguments.

Well would you now be happy with a Dublin Bejing route or do you still hold to your opinion above that Bejing wouldn't be good enough ?

JCX BXC

jmayo wrote: »

Very dismissive of 12 million Chinese no matter if they were flying into knock, Cork, or even Dublin.

Yes I am, if you think that even 1% 12 million poor catholics will travel to the west of Ireland to go on a pilgrimage I do not with to have a discussion with you. I am in support of a Dublin route, prove that I'm not! It seems your personal assertions have immediately came to the conclusion of 'He doesn't agree with me, everything he says is wrong'

Once your point about how little 12 million was of the overall Chinese population was blown out of the water, you jumped on your next bandwagon about how poor they were in relation to for instance the population of Canada.

Blown out of the water? Personal attacks don't blow points out of the water.

Then of course a route to Bejing wasn't good enough as it didn't cover 50% plus of the nations population ala Ireland.

Ah come on now, you're trying harder and harder to misinterpretation what I said and create an argument.

Why couldn't you have said something along those lines in the first place rather than just rubbishing other points frankly with lazy childish counter arguments.

My original point was about that comment being unbelievably ridiculous. If anyone could possibly think that a route to Knock from Bejing in china would do well just because 1 or 2 million catholics live in Bejing they need a SERIOUS reality check

Well would you now be happy with a Dublin Bejing route or do you still hold to your opinion above that Bejing wouldn't be good enough ?

Yes I would be happy, Its a key business market (Not a pilgrimage one). And wow get off your high horse, Beijing isn't a pilgrimage market.



Knock will NEVER get a pilgrimage route to china! Never! Knock will never get alot of things, just like Shannon, Cork, Kerry and even Dublin! The people in support of knock cannot be told anything other than Knock airport is the highest of all gods and needs to be worshipped and used by everyone in Ireland without going ape. Its completely childish! I'd imagine quite strongly that people are not ever going to say this as its not worth the extreme time wasting saying these simple and what's meant to be common sense fact.

The cause of this bloody china argument was a TD suggesting knock should become a chinese visitor hub? Who here agrees this is even possible? Please PM me so I can use the valuable ignore feature. I commented on how ridiculous the points for this were, and low and behold they were taken completely out of context until Mayomaffia jumped in with one of his great personal attacks.

Tenger

Thread locked so all involved can step away from the keyboard for a day or two.

Once re-opened any more aggressive posting will result in temp bans

cgill

A new sun route is due to be announced later on today.

6541

to where ?