Does it still 'matter' Catholic baptism regarding schools/jobs in Ireland?

Pamela13

Hi,

My husband (Catholic) and I (Protestant) are debating christening our 3 month old baby boy (in a few months) -- he is arguing that it would be better to baptise LO Catholic as it would be easier for schools, but we're hoping to send him to Irish primary (gaelscoileanna/which is interdenominational/Christian) and to a private secondary (Catholic, but will accept non-Catholics who adhere to the ethos of the school). We're not planning his entire life out (I promise!), but one of his arguments is that it would be easier for him to be baptised Catholic than Protestant. I'm American, he's Irish -- so I was raised in a more secular educational system (separation of church and state (and yes, I do understand the founding fathers did believe in God and that the USA is founded on Christian principles)), but does religion really matter in the Irish schools/private schools? Will being baptised Protestant but being exposed to both of his parent's religions be 'acceptable' to schools or (gasp!) employers in this modern Ireland or am I just deluded?

Many thanks -- please note that I do respect the Catholic church (I was married by dispensation to my husband in a Catholic service in Rome), but feel more comfortable either not baptising him at all (letting him choose when he is older) or in my 'own faith' without religion in school (Protestants have Sunday school, etc)....

best wishes!

Cailin CoisFarraige

Hi Pamela,
At present, the vast majority of Irish primary schools have a Catholic ethos. Whilst there is a lot of debate taking place, this is unlikely to change much over the next few years. Because of their Catholic ethos, schools have the right to offer school places to Catholic (i.e. baptised) children over others, as long as they include this in their enrolement policy.

Note that there are no non-denominational schools in Ireland. Multi-denominational yes, but Religious Education is taught in all schools. The curriculum varies depending on the ethos of the school. So you must also consider whether you would like your son to take part in these religion lessons, whichever school he goes to.

Regarding his employment prospects, I wouldn't really know enough to give you sound advice. The Employment Equality Act (Section 37.1) gives religious, educational or medical institutions the option to give "more favourable treatment" to a prospective employee over others in order to uphold their religious ethos. It's under this act that schools are allowed to favour particular religions in their enrolement policies.

In theory, this means that such an institution could offer a job to, for example, a Protestant over a Catholic, if the institution had a Protestant ethos. However, as far as I know such a situation has never been reported. Most organisations would be happy to employ someone of any religion, or none, as long as they uphold the ethos of the organisation.

Congratulations on the new baby!

Pamela13

thanks -- I'm happy for him to receive some religious education in school, but not one particular church (the local gaelscoileanna offers Christian teaching, but not specific Catholic....)....

As for jobs, I'VE never had a problem being Protestant!

best wishes

IMightKnow

I was not baptised. My parents would have written "christian" on any school application forms.

They had no problem at all getting me into the Catholic Gaelscoil of their choice and into the Catholic Secondary school of their choice. This was the 1990s and 2000s.

Both schools are very popular and needed early applications but there was no issues. In saying that we did have an address in the area where the schools were located.

Toto Wolfcastle

The most important thing is the school's enrolment policy. Is religion mentioned in it? Schools have to adhere to their own enrolment policy when offering students places so as long as you fit the criteria and there are enough places you will be fine.

Pamela13

it's the 'enough places' that worries me, e.g. would he have an advantage therefore by being baptised into the faith of the school involved -- but I spoke to one of the schools in question and they said as long as we didn't mind his involvement in religion classes, they wouldn't have a problem; I didn't have the guts to ask about allocated places as didn't want to offend!

Toto Wolfcastle

Again, you need to look at the enrolment policy. Does the enrolment policy mention religion?

Pamela13

yesssssss, but it says that it accepts children outside of the Catholic faith if the family ascribes to the Christian tradition....I just don't know or how to ask if say 95% of places are Catholic and 5% are non-Catholic OR if all the children are admitted based on academic merit and if the child is Catholic, fine; but equally fine, if not...does that make sense?

Good to know -- IMightKnow, thanks!

Toto Wolfcastle

They won't have a percentage. The enrolment policy might read like this:

1. Siblings of current/past pupils
2. Eldest children on family
3. Students in catchment area not included in 1 or 2

And so on.

That means that all students who have or had a brother or sister will get in first. Then they will choose the children who do not have a sibling in the school and who are the eldest in the family. Then they will choose the children who fit into number 3. This continues down the list until all places have been filled. Where on the list is religion mentioned? This will give a better indication of whether your child will get in or not. It's only an indication though because numbers will vary from year to year.

Pamela13

Pamela13 wrote: »

and yes, I do understand the founding fathers did believe in God and that the USA is founded on Christian principles

quite the opposite actually

treaty of tripoli wrote:

As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,

In practical terms, yes, it will make a difference. Any oversubscribed schools will pick catholic children & siblings first - and catholic children not from that area
non-catholics will be bottom of the list
however if you send him to a non-catholic/multi-d school which has enough room for him there is no need for him to be baptised.

slarkin123

I think the majority of gaelscoils insist on having them christened. We had to give ours the kids birth certain and baptism cert. I still have to get my 2 year old christened before he starts school. Though im sure if you make a big enough fuss they might let it slide. To us it was more important to have them in an Irish school rather than one based on religion. Though i will say they spend too much time on holy communion and confirmation work. But that goes along with the ethos of the school so i can't really complain even though i don't agree with it.

byhookorbycrook

slarkin123 wrote: »

I think the majority of gaelscoils insist on having them christened. We had to give ours the kids birth certain and baptism cert.

Untrue.

slarkin123

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

slarkin123 wrote: »

I think the majority of gaelscoils insist on having them christened. We had to give ours the kids birth certain and baptism cert.

Untrue.[/Quote

The 2 Irish schools in my area that i looked into both did.

byhookorbycrook

slarkin123 wrote: »

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Untrue.[/Quote

The 2 Irish schools in my area that i looked into both did.

So 2 schools is a majority?

Pamela13

byhook -- just to correct you, I'm actually a historian working on a book about how republican rome influenced george washington and he did believe in god (or at least, providence to guide him), but not all founding fathers, true, e.g. Ben Franklin, believed in god, so it was more general statement, I suppose....! and it was made in the spirit of somebody stating that americans were more religious than the constitution states!

anyway, thanks to everybody for the info -- we've somewhat decided not to baptise at the moment (I would prefer LO to decide after exposure by parents), but if it seems to become an issue, then will..........

best wishes

byhookorbycrook

Pamela, think that isn't aimed at me re founding fathers etc.?

Pamela13

yikes! You're right and apologies -- I went back and saw it was somebody else - mea culpa!

sorry again....!

best wishes and thanks!