Issue with Sky Tv Payments

natty_asha

Hi

Over the past couple of months I have had ongoing problems with SKY TV over payments.This is going to take a bit of explaining!

It began back in Feb when I missed a payment. As I did not have the money in my account at the time I cancelled the direct debit so I wouldn't get charged for going overdrawn. This was on the 15th Feb.

On the 1st March I rang sky made the payment for Feb and reinstated my dd for that month. The following week we received a letter detailing the dd details etc. Payment was due on the 15th March but was never taken. Money was in account as hubbie gets paid directly into bank every thurs. I never noticed at the time as on my sky account online is said payment was received. Given that it was a bank hol weekend etc and banks are normally slow to update statements online I went by skys online service so assumed it was paid.

The following month - April - there appeared to be no problem, sky subscription was working fine etc. Sky Payment was due on 15th again as normal. I went into town that day to go shopping and no funds were in account. I checked at the bank and Sky had taken a payment of €144.

I rang sky and they said it was a double payment as previous month had not being paid! I informed them dd would be cancelled and instead they could issue a bill and I would pay it myself that week by phone using my card. I cancelled dd with bank that day also.

I checked my bank acc today and money was taken by sky even though I had cancelled dd last month with both them and bank. Rang both who of course blamed the other. Sky says bank wouldn't let them take money if dd was cancelled and bank says sky changed ref number as a way of getting around cancelled dd.the dd showed up as cancelled on my online banking for the past couple of weeks.

The bank has again cancelled dd and money will be refunded tomorrow but how can sky take money that they shouldn't have being allowed to take? is there something I can do to avoid this happening again?

Bank mentioned that certain companies are notorious for taking dd payments when not authorised to do so. is there a way of guaranteeing this wont happen again? Its left me with no money again and feeling fairly peed off!!

RangeR

Natty, I'm exceptionally interested in getting more info from you in relation to this.

This is a ludicrous occurance.

Which bank are you with?
Did they mention which allegedly notorious companies regularly allegedly take un-authorised direct debits from customer accounts, allegedly?


Right, lets start off. Your first mistake was cancelling your direct debit. Under the Direct Debit Scheme, your bank is NOT allowed to process a direct debit payment if there is insufficient in your account. If such a payment is made, you have a right to order your bank to reverse that payment and ALL charges immediately. If a company takes an un-authorised Direct Debit from your account, you have the right to order your bank to refund it immediately.

In theory, money shouldn't leave your account without your permission. It's YOUR account. You are giving a temporary privilege to certain companies to withdraw funds to pay bills. In reality, any company can take any amount from any account with little or no hindrance.

In short, the Direct Debit Scheme, especially Direct Debit +, is fundamentally broken with systemic failures in all involved parties. Including the banks, IPSO, a set of originators [companies] and to an extent the Central Bank for standing over such a farce of a scheme.

You were down €144. I was down nearly €850 and I WASN'T EVEN A CUSTOMER.

There are absolutely no checks and balances in the Scheme to combat this sort of abuse. I urge you ro email Michael O'Neill [oneillm@ipso.ie - Publicly available email address on the IPSO website] in IPSO to complain about your situation. I believe he has oversight on the entire process. Maybe say I sent you


If you are going to contact them, and you really should, first familarise yourself with some details on the Direct Debit Scheme [PDF].

RangeR

natty_asha wrote: »

Bank mentioned that certain companies are notorious for taking dd payments when not authorised to do so. is there a way of guaranteeing this wont happen again? Its left me with no money again and feeling fairly peed off!!

This is tantamount to fraud on the part of the companies, and to an extent, collusion on the part of the banks, as they are knowingly allowing this to happen without notifying anybody.

Would you consider following even this one point up with your bank or IPSO?

natty_asha

Thanks for your help.

I'm with Ulster Bank. I went in to them today and they said that Sky are changing the reference number on the dd so it appears as a new one to the bank.

Ulster bank have returned the dd request to sky and I won't be charged any fees etc. They didnt mention any companies but the clerk did say that she sees this quite often and usually they just get the hint after a few tries and give up. But that doesn't quite seem good enough to me!

I've noticed that if you cancel a dd with sky you can reinstate it by just telling them over the phone. No form needs to be signed or anything so I think they may have possibly reinstated the dd without me knowing? I mean how would the bank know if I have ddone it or not since they don't need a signature?

It seems a bit suspect to me that a dd can be set up like that without the need to fill in some paperwork. Most companies ask you to fill out a form and send it off again.

I will look into the info you have highlighted and then send that email.

RangeR

natty_asha wrote: »

It seems a bit suspect to me that a dd can be set up like that without the need to fill in some paperwork. Most companies ask you to fill out a form and send it off again.

I will look into the info you have highlighted and then send that email.

You will be thinking differently once you read the material from the threads provided

piperh

Natty asha i had issues with Sky and their dd system a few mnths ago, like with you they were blaming the bank and the bank were blaming them. I emailed and cc'd a letter to a few higher up in the chain including the ceo not really expecting a response. However on Easter Sunday :eek: i got an email asking person for somebody from the executive team (who'd had the email forwarded to them from the ceo) to call me to sort it out, i gave permission and within 10 mins a lovely guy had rung me and sorted it out and i've had no problems since and he's followed it up with emails to make sure everything is now ok. I've kept the email addresses just in case theres a problem in the future though :rolleyes:

Try cutting out the middle man and you might get them to sort it out quicker. Good Luck.

dub45

piperh wrote: »

Natty asha i had issues with Sky and their dd system a few mnths ago, like with you they were blaming the bank and the bank were blaming them. I emailed and cc'd a letter to a few higher up in the chain including the ceo not really expecting a response. However on Easter Sunday :eek: i got an email asking person for somebody from the executive team (who'd had the email forwarded to them from the ceo) to call me to sort it out, i gave permission and within 10 mins a lovely guy had rung me and sorted it out and i've had no problems since and he's followed it up with emails to make sure everything is now ok. I've kept the email addresses just in case theres a problem in the future though :rolleyes:

Try cutting out the middle man and you might get them to sort it out quicker. Good Luck.

Just for the record it is not a about cutting out the middle man. If a customer cancels a dd they are explicitly withdrawing permission for the company concerned to access their account again.

There is no excuse whatsoever for any company to alter a cancelled dd instruction and attempt access again. None.

dub45

natty_asha wrote: »

Hi

Over the past couple of months I have had ongoing problems with SKY TV over payments.This is going to take a bit of explaining!

It began back in Feb when I missed a payment. As I did not have the money in my account at the time I cancelled the direct debit so I wouldn't get charged for going overdrawn. This was on the 15th Feb.

On the 1st March I rang sky made the payment for Feb and reinstated my dd for that month. The following week we received a letter detailing the dd details etc. Payment was due on the 15th March but was never taken. Money was in account as hubbie gets paid directly into bank every thurs. I never noticed at the time as on my sky account online is said payment was received. Given that it was a bank hol weekend etc and banks are normally slow to update statements online I went by skys online service so assumed it was paid.

The following month - April - there appeared to be no problem, sky subscription was working fine etc. Sky Payment was due on 15th again as normal. I went into town that day to go shopping and no funds were in account. I checked at the bank and Sky had taken a payment of €144.

I rang sky and they said it was a double payment as previous month had not being paid! I informed them dd would be cancelled and instead they could issue a bill and I would pay it myself that week by phone using my card. I cancelled dd with bank that day also.

I checked my bank acc today and money was taken by sky even though I had cancelled dd last month with both them and bank. Rang both who of course blamed the other. Sky says bank wouldn't let them take money if dd was cancelled and bank says sky changed ref number as a way of getting around cancelled dd.the dd showed up as cancelled on my online banking for the past couple of weeks.

The bank has again cancelled dd and money will be refunded tomorrow but how can sky take money that they shouldn't have being allowed to take? is there something I can do to avoid this happening again?

Bank mentioned that certain companies are notorious for taking dd payments when not authorised to do so. is there a way of guaranteeing this wont happen again? Its left me with no money again and feeling fairly peed off!!

"Congratulations" you now know what a farce the dd system in Ireland is.

It offers no protection upfront to bill payers whatsoever.

Companies know that they can do what they like without any fear of sanction and the customer is left to pick up the pieces.

The so called dd guarantee is a lie and deliberately misleading.

There is no such thing in practise as a cancelled dd instruction as the banks have no system in place to detect them on re-presentaion (if they have been altered slightly)

You should formally ask your bank why a cancelled dd was paid? They have a responsibility to protect your account and they did not do that. You should also ask your bank formally why do they not report such activity to the Garda.

Unless customers become much more assertive this farce will just continue.

piperh

dub45 wrote: »

Just for the record it is not a about cutting out the middle man. If a customer cancels a dd they are explicitly withdrawing permission for the company concerned to access their account again.

There is no excuse whatsoever for any company to alter a cancelled dd instruction and attempt access again. None.

By cutting out the middle man i meant for getting them to sort it out without being passed from cc agent to cc agent. I agree there is no excuse for altering dd instruction.

natty_asha

I emailed sky yesterday after ringing their customer service and calling into the bank, just to have it in writing too.

They of course emailed me back saying that they received no instruction or paperwork from the bank that the dd was cancelled. They told em to get onto my bank and find out why they had not communicated this to them.

I replied telling them that regardless of whether the bank had not informed them of this or not I had told them myself that I cancelled it and I wanted to be billed by a different method.

I have since of course heard nothing back from them, and I doubt I will given they know now that regardless of what the bank has done they had no permission to go looking for the money from my bank account in the first place!

I have being reading up on the links provided by other posters in this thread and to be honest its absolutely shocking to see companies getting away with all this. I will certainly be persuing this matter even though the bank refunded me the money within 24 hours.

Could anyone tell me what is the best way to go about this? Who whould I formally complain to first? My husband rang NCA yesterday but they said that because Sky is a UK company we would have to deal with the European Consumer Centre.

I have put it in writing to sky already so I assume the bank would be next?