brilliant news, minister wants names of dads on all birth certs

goat2

now the minister joan burton wants fathers names on all birth certs, and looking at fathers having the same rights,
also she wants all dads to support children they father,
i beleive lots of unmarried mothers do not put a fathers name on cert, now they have to.
i also hope she will go back and ask those who already do not have the fathers name on, to put it in,
anyway the child also has rights. to know both sides of their family.

GLaDOS

While great news for unmarried fathers who want to be involved, what happens if the mother doesn't know who the father is?

aaronjumper

That is good news I guess. I'll wait to hear the other side of the argument, if there is one. Not sure why it took so long really.

whatdoicare

Should be interesting to see what that girl from Copper face jacks looking for "Mark" is going to do?

Hazys

ScienceNerd wrote: »

While great news for unmarried fathers who want to be involved, what happens if the mother doesn't know who the father is?

For Father on the birth cert, they just put down "Perry Miscuous"

Biggins

There has to be exceptions.
As in the case of rapes, etc where the female is abused and does not want to attached for life legally on paper to the name of her abuser.

That is very important I feel.

Thrill

What if she says she doesn't know who he is?

Or what happens to her if she tells them to fcuk right off and mind their own business?

Scioch

Good news I suppose in regards the rights of the father but they need to take the child support into account when handing out the children's allowance. To a lot of mothers this will be nothing but a chance to squeeze money out of a n ex-partner even though the child is well taken care of by the allowance and exemptions for single mothers.

aaronjumper

Thrill wrote: »

What if she says she don't know who he is?

Or what happens to her if she tells them to fcuk right off and mind their own business?

Then she should be more careful of who she sleeps with. Just because the mother suddenly decides she doesn't like the father, does not mean she should have the right to exclude him, extenuating circumstances aside.

kerry4sam

goat2 wrote: »

now the minister joan burton wants fathers names on all birth certs, and looking at fathers having the same rights,
also she wants all dads to support children they father,
i beleive lots of unmarried mothers do not put a fathers name on cert, now they have to.
i also hope she will go back and ask those who already do not have the fathers name on, to put it in,
anyway the child also has rights. to know both sides of their family.

Do you have a link for this goat2 please?

I wouldn't call it brilliant news tbh and it would put some females under pressure if they were 'forced' to put the 'fathers' name down or told they have to put the 'fathers' name down. Their will be circumstances where he would not be known, and I'd like to know what other 'special' circumstances are being taken into account by this Minister.

maybe the details would be on a linky if you can provide one for me please?

dark crystal

LordSmeg wrote: »

To a lot of mothers this will be nothing but a chance to squeeze money out of a n ex-partner even though the child is well taken care of by the allowance and exemptions for single mothers.

It's the fathers responsibility to pay for his child, just as much as it is the mothers. Why should the state pay out in place of an errant father..

They wouldn't be 'squeezing' money out of anyone, just making them contribute to the child they helped create.

bleg

That's great, just bring in mandatory paternity testing along side it please.

Smithey88

goat2 wrote: »

now the minister joan burton wants fathers names on all birth certs, and looking at fathers having the same rights,
also she wants all dads to support children they father,
i beleive lots of unmarried mothers do not put a fathers name on cert, now they have to.
i also hope she will go back and ask those who already do not have the fathers name on, to put it in,
anyway the child also has rights. to know both sides of their family.

You sound like you have such hatred for unmarried mothers.

But anyways this doesnt change anything. A woman could say it was a drunken one night stand. All she knows is his name was Jim and he said he worked tesco.

meoklmrk91

I know a family with four kids, 2 girls, 2 boys, none of the children have their fathers name on their birth certificate despite the fact they have the same father and he has lived with them their entire lives. This was done so that the mother could collect lone parent.

I have seen the birth certificates and i think it is so sad that they couldn't have their fathers name on it or take their fathers name simply because their parents wanted more money. Im delighted at this news.

BattleCorp

What happens if some cnut puts the wrong name down on the birth cert? What happens then?

There would have to be forced paternity tests too for this to work. I mean, the birth cert is worth nothing if there is false information on it. It's a legal document for fcuk sake. The info on it has to be beyond doubt.

golden lane

Smithey88 wrote: »

You sound like you have such hatred for unmarried mothers.

But anyways this doesnt change anything. A woman could say it was a drunken one night stand. All she knows is his name was Jim and he said he worked tesco.

maybe he is just fed up paying tax to keep other peoples kids.....????

planetX

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

I know a family with four kids, 2 girls, 2 boys, none of the children have their fathers name on their birth certificate despite the fact they have the same father and he has lived with them their entire lives. This was done so that the mother could collect lone parent.

I have seen the birth certificates and i think it is so sad that they couldn't have their fathers name on it or take their fathers name simply because their parents wanted more money. Im delighted at this news.

and people like that will still find a way to continue. I don't see how this will change anything, what can they do if you say you don't know who the father is - run DNA on every suspect?

Immaculate Pasta

Thrill wrote: »

What if she says she doesn't know who he is?

Then Mr. ? will have to fork out a lot of money for child maintenance. :cool:

Poor guy.

Ronin247

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

I know a family with four kids, 2 girls, 2 boys, none of the children have their fathers name on their birth certificate despite the fact they have the same father and he has lived with them their entire lives. This was done so that the mother could collect lone parent.

I have seen the birth certificates and i think it is so sad that they couldn't have their fathers name on it or take their fathers name simply because their parents wanted more money. Im delighted at this news.

Report them.It is the right thing to do.Should be mandatory DNA test for every single mothers second child..........If the kids have the same father no more single parent allowance.

Chuck Stone

What difference will it make?

Born to Die

Paternity tests are a given for a lot of cases. Women can't just be allowed put a man's name on the birth cert if there is any doubt or without the man agreeing.

secretambition

Does she have to notify the father that he has a child? It's all very well having his name on a document somewhere, but 9 months after a one night stand, she may not have contact details and he'd need to be psychic to go looking for a birth cert.

planetX

Born to Die wrote: »

Paternity tests are a given for a lot of cases. Women can't just be allowed put a man's name on the birth cert if there is any doubt or without the man agreeing.

and who pays?

goat2

kerry4sam wrote: »

Do you have a link for this goat2 please?

I wouldn't call it brilliant news tbh and it would put some females under pressure if they were 'forced' to put the 'fathers' name down or told they have to put the 'fathers' name down. Their will be circumstances where he would not be known, and I'd like to know what other 'special' circumstances are being taken into account by this Minister.

maybe the details would be on a linky if you can provide one for me please?

todays, irish daily mail, front page

i am not good with linking, sorry

admiralofthefleet

will fathers get equal paternity leave as well? at the moment we get none

Born to Die

planetX wrote: »

and who pays?

The man if he is the father. The woman if not.

Biggins

goat2 wrote: »

todays, irish daily mail, front page

i am not good with linking, sorry

http://www.thejournal.ie/one-parent-group-criticises-proposed-law-to-name-fathers-on-birth-certs-452790-May2012/

http://www.thejournal.ie/new-law-may-make-it-compulsory-to-include-fathers-name-on-birth-cert-329206-Jan2012/

Ellis Dee

Name of father: He was a big handsome hunk I met in a disco and took back to my flat, where we had a few spliffs and some great sex. He gave me his card: Ellis Dee, 1 Main Street, London, but I've had no reply to the letters I sent him and the phone number doesn't seem to be working, either. In fact, now I'm not even sure he was really English or the son of an earl like he told me ...:o:o:o

kerry4sam

Biggins wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/one-parent-group-criticises-proposed-law-to-name-fathers-on-birth-certs-452790-May2012/

http://www.thejournal.ie/new-law-may-make-it-compulsory-to-include-fathers-name-on-birth-cert-329206-Jan2012/

Cheers Biggins

goat2

Smithey88 wrote: »

You sound like you have such hatred for unmarried mothers.

But anyways this doesnt change anything. A woman could say it was a drunken one night stand. All she knows is his name was Jim and he said he worked tesco.

i most certainly do not hate unmarried mothers, i have been there for one girl when she needed backup and she and the dad of her child are not together, but he plays a part in his childs upbringing,
i think the children are going to grow into adults one day and want to know who dad is,
i count myself and my children lucky that we had and have a relationship, and that i can help them whenever possible,
most people like to know their history and a history of illenesses in both sides of family, genetics

golden lane

Ellis Dee wrote: »

Name of father: He was a big handsome hunk I met in a disco and took back to my flat, where we had a few spliffs and some great sex. He gave me his card: Ellis Dee, 1 Main Street, London, but I've had no reply to the letters I sent him and the phone number doesn't seem to be working, either. In fact, now I'm not even sure he was really English or the son of an earl like he told me ...:o:o:o

did you not see his royal tattoo..

secretambition

I agree with it. I think that the childs right to know is paramount. There was a case in England a few years ago where two twins who had been adopted separately were actually engaged, obviously clueless that they were related. In a country like Ireland, with a smaller population, there is more of a need to know who a person is related to. A more likely issue is that of hereditary illnesses and the need to get information about them. Then of course, the most obvious thing of all, is that a person may want a relationship with their father and their extended family on his side.

branbee

My child has her fathers surname, his name is also on the birth cert, he even has guardianship.
He still doesn't know what she had for dinner today, that she can now spell random words she hears during the day, or it would seem, that it actually costs money to rear her.
Some ink on a bit of paper won't change a thing.
Fathers who want to be in their child's life will still be screwed over and those who don't give a **** still won't take any responsibility.

Born to Die

golden lane wrote: »

did you not see his royal tattoo..

It's Ellis describing himself, hope his Missus reads After Hours.

aaronjumper

secretambition wrote: »

I agree with it. I think that the childs right to know is paramount. There was a case in England a few years ago where two twins who had been adopted separately were actually engaged, obviously clueless that they were related. In a country like Ireland, with a smaller population, there is more of a need to know who a person is related to. A more likely issue is that of hereditary illnesses and the need to get information about them. Then of course, the most obvious thing of all, is that a person may want a relationship with their father and their extended family on his side.

I know you are trying to make a valid point but. . . two twins? :pac:

secretambition

aaronjumper wrote: »

I know you are trying to make a valid point but. . . two twins? :pac:

Ok, "one twins".

Born to Die

Now if the fine Minister would just make it possible to remove useless absent mother's name's from birth certs all would be well.

westendgirlie

In the UK, unless you are married a mother does not have the right to put the fathers name on a birth cert. The father has to be present at registration.

This will be the procedure in Ireland too I hope. Otherwise, you could become the father of a child that isn't yours.

Fighting Irish

Biggins wrote: »

There has to be exceptions.
As in the case of rapes, etc where the female is abused and does not want to attached for life legally on paper to the name of her abuser.

That is very important I feel.

Mr. Obvious, nice to meet you!

aaronjumper

westendgirlie wrote: »

This will be the procedure in Ireland too I hope. Otherwise, you could become the father of a child that isn't yours.

That's what DNA testing is for though. Will solve that problem rather quickly.

westendgirlie

aaronjumper wrote: »

That's what DNA testing is for though. Will solve that problem rather quickly.

I would want that to be Option 3.

Option 1 - Mother & Father (whether a couple or not) go together to register birth

Option 2 - Due to a difficult relationship where mother denies the Father his rights of Option 1, Father completes a registration form confirming paternity.

Option 3- Due to Father denying paternity DNA test is done.

Biggins

Fighting Irish wrote: »

Mr. Obvious, nice to meet you!

Always a pleasure.

Teyla Emmagan

What I found interesting was the stipulation that 'women will not have to put the father's name on the birth cert in cases where they don't know who he is or where they feel their life may be in danger from him'. I hope there is also a requirement for any woman who ticks that box to also provide said potential assailant's details to the Guards!

According to this Irish site to get a Court Approved DNA test done costs €700.

http://www.oqps.ie/court-approved-test-pricing.htm

Not exactly cheap, but you certainly wouldn't think twice about paying it if someone put your name on a birth cert and you didn't think it should be there. €700 a lot cheaper than 18 years of child support.

Scioch

dark crystal wrote: »

It's the fathers responsibility to pay for his child, just as much as it is the mothers. Why should the state pay out in place of an errant father..

They wouldn't be 'squeezing' money out of anyone, just making them contribute to the child they helped create.

Problem there is that the mothers responsibilities are taken care of by the state through allowances the fathers I assume are not and forcing him to pay doesnt reduce the cost to the state as far as I see. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander, either pay the fathers child support through a state payment on his behalf or reduce the mothers allowances to compensate for the contribution of the father.

If there is extra money involved on top of already adequate state payments then you can bet there will be a lot of "squeezing" involved.

Profiler

If insisting the Fathers name on the Birth Cert grants no rights to the Father then Joan Burton is "at it"

By that I mean, the Father on the Birth Cert is entitled to visitation rights that if denied the mother can be held accountable under the law for.

More importantly if there is a custody dispute the Judge MUST view the Father and Mother as equal, not as it is now where the Mother is granted custody almost all of the time regardless of the facts.

If that dosen't happen then Burton is engaging in simply money grabbing exercise rather than real and much needed reform

UglyBolloxFace

Biggins wrote: »

There has to be exceptions.
As in the case of rapes, etc where the female is abused and does not want to attached for life legally on paper to the name of her abuser.

That is very important I feel.

The legislation would obviously never count in the case of rape...and to think that it would is, frankly, stupid

hairyprincess

I hate this nonsense about mothers not putting the fathers name down do she can collect single parent allowance. It's absolute bull****. Putting a fathers name on a birth cert is NOT a barrier to social welfare payments.

My Childs father refused point blank to have his name put on her birth cert. But thankfully because the law states that if there is a court order than a fathers name can be automatically added without his permission. Only for this there would be no name on her cert because of the actions of a selfish man.

It was extremely important for me to have his name there. I was not going to have it left blank our have it marked as unknown, he is her father. It's just too bad that he could never admit that to himself.

Biggins

UglyBolloxFace wrote: »

The legislation would obviously never count in the case of rape...and to think that it would is, frankly, stupid

Here's hoping...
Its an obvious thing to allow for but the legal section that will deal with this eventually mustn't be allowed get complacent or lax in their efforts to ensure fairness.
After all, it wouldn't be the first time laws have been put forward/rushed through that frankly have been a bit of a farce for allowing some stuff and/or forgetting about other related areas that need to be address or allowed for.

Isn't that right Mr Sherlock!

GAAman

westendgirlie wrote: »

In the UK, unless you are married a mother does not have the right to put the fathers name on a birth cert. The father has to be present at registration.

This will be the procedure in Ireland too I hope. Otherwise, you could become the father of a child that isn't yours.

I thought that was the case here too. For clarification purposes would this proposal mean a woman could put a man's name down who has never even had sex with her?

DublinWriter

hairyprincess wrote: »

It was extremely important for me to have his name there. I was not going to have it left blank our have it marked as unknown, he is her father. It's just too bad that he could never admit that to himself.

That's all fair enough, but surely it must be subject to a enforced process of DNA testing for it to work when a man denies being the father.

Mr.Biscuits

branbee wrote: »

He still doesn't know what she had for dinner today, that she can now spell random words she hears during the day, or it would seem, that it actually costs money to rear her.

Does he not pay maintenance?