Back in my day...

Crooked Jack

Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with young people today?
Im only 26 so I dont want to come across like some old fogie giving out about young uns and their hippity hoppity music, but Christ, **** like this is becoming more and more common. My job sees me in court a lot and cases like this come up all the time


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-18086599

Funkfield

...was pronounced "báck". Note the fada,

toexpress

That is very scary I mean we seem to be producing more and more psychopatic types all the time.

I know it might sound a bit odd but if you ever pan through the Sky there are shows on during the day (repeats) that were deemed unsuitable for pre-watershed viewing when I was a kid (am 31)

Kids don't have manners anymore either I always think it's odd the way neighbours kids refer to me by my first name. Again very small by comparison to the post from the OP but the problems have to start somewhere raising children seems to have changed dramatically and not for the better

Chuck Stone

Crooked Jack wrote: »

My job sees me in court a lot and cases like this come up all the time

You're a burglar?

a fat guy

I thought the judges name was "Tom Bugger" for a second there...

Reoil

Here's an idea: this **** has always happened - at least now people are finding out and reporting it.
Catholic priest abuse scandal? Ring any bells? **** was happening "back in your day" too and long before...

westendgirlie

I clicked the link but No Way could I bring myself to read more than the headline.

Crooked Jack

Reoil wrote: »

Here's an idea: this **** has always happened - at least now people are finding out and reporting it.
Catholic priest abuse scandal? Ring any bells? **** was happening "back in your day" too and long before...

I was more referring to the increasingly young age of the offenders of these types of crimes.

Crooked Jack

Chuck Stone wrote: »

You're a burglar?

A judge. Judge Dredd

Caliden

Reoil wrote: »

Here's an idea: this **** has always happened - at least now people are finding out and reporting it.
Catholic priest abuse scandal? Ring any bells? **** was happening "back in your day" too and long before...

Didn't know they let 14 year olds into the priesthood

blacklilly

I think it basically boils down to bad parenting in most cases.

I come across alot of anti social behavious from youths in my line of work and it never ceases to amaze me just how little concern these kids have for others.

They have no boundarys and usually come from families where communication isn't great.

Unfortuentely many of these kids will continue a life of destruction for themselves and others.

They may have children themselves and so the circle begins again.

hairyprincess

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with young people today?
Im only 26 so I dont want to come across like some old fogie giving out about young uns and their hippity hoppity music, but Christ, **** like this is becoming more and more common. My job sees me in court a lot and cases like this come up all the time


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-18086599

Dear Lord, that is horrendous. Where do you begin to fix it?

Crooked Jack

Does anyone know what his sentence is likely to be. How long can you actually give a 14 year old

maximoose

Reoil wrote: »

Here's an idea: this **** has always happened - at least now people are finding out and reporting it.
Catholic priest abuse scandal? Ring any bells? **** was happening "back in your day" too and long before...

Exactly. **** like this has always gone on, we just have so much media in our lives now you hear about it much easier.

Same with natural disasters.."Ohhhhh look at all the tsunamis and earthquakes these days, the mayans were right the world is ending"

NO IT'S NOT YOU F*CKING MUPPETS

christmas2012

that is sick,but sick today could mean 'cool',there is no value on humanity today a lot of it is this pop and porn culture,years ago nobody had internet to look at porn all day or have transparent views on certain issues,you were expected to have an opinion of value,earn your grades etc,not spoonfed them,today its all very ambiguous and superficial..

Dudess

Rape of a small child, kids not calling adults Mr/Mrs/Miss whatever (Jesus I'd cringe if someone referred to me by a title) - does not compute.

du Maurier

Crooked Jack wrote: »

A judge. Judge Dredd

Judge Mental

Crooked Jack

maximoose wrote: »

Exactly. **** like this has always gone on, we just have so much media in our lives now you hear about it much easier.

Same with natural disasters.."Ohhhhh look at all the tsunamis and earthquakes these days, the mayans were right the world is ending"

NO IT'S NOT YOU F*CKING MUPPETS

You're missing the point, i'm referring to the age of the offender more than the offense. Nothing to do with clerical abuse or...ahem...tsunamis

ScumLord

Crooked Jack wrote: »

I was more referring to the increasingly young age of the offenders of these types of crimes.

A 14 year old could have been married and in full time work in the past. Allowing people to avoid adulthood into their late teens is a fairly new thing really. That this is seen as so bad now is really progress as it may have likely been ignored in the past.

hairyprincess

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Does anyone know what his sentence is likely to be. How long can you actually give a 14 year old

He needs rehabilitation. But will he get it? Doubtful.

His parents should be held to account to some extent

Shryke

Children are highly impressionable and not marked for forbearance. It doesn't take a scientific study to see the impact media exposure has on children. Desensitization to moral wrongs, violence and abuse is happening from a young age.
This kind of thing used to happen less and when it did it was more from ignorance or because the abusers themselves were abused. While this can still be the case there's a growing number of really messed up cases where the act is more reprehensible in nature.
Something like this shouldn't be able to happen even once in a first world country and it's hard to believe that the boys parents aren't somewhat at fault. That's where the responsibility lies, unless the child is Hitler incarnate or something.

It's a really crap world sometimes.

St.Spodo

christmas2012 wrote: »

that is sick,but sick today could mean 'cool',there is no value on humanity today a lot of it is this pop and porn culture,years ago nobody had internet to look at porn all day or have transparent views on certain issues,you were expected to have an opinion of value,earn your grades etc,not spoonfed them,today its all very ambiguous and superficial..

Sweet jesus.

hooradiation

ITT - Recall bias gone wild!

Mr Benevolent

toexpress wrote: »

Kids don't have manners anymore either I always think it's odd the way neighbours kids refer to me by my first name.

Do you want them to refer to you as Sir or Your Grace?

that is sick,but sick today could mean 'cool',there is no value on humanity today a lot of it is this pop and porn culture,years ago nobody had internet to look at porn all day or have transparent views on certain issues,you were expected to have an opinion of value,earn your grades etc,not spoonfed them,today its all very ambiguous and superficial..

What. The. Actual. Fuck?

Are you serious? What age are you, pray tell?

OldNotWIse

Probably be shot for saying this but I believe anyone capable of carrying out adult acts shuld be tried as an adult.

kylith

toexpress wrote: »

That is very scary I mean we seem to be producing more and more psychopatic types all the time.

I know it might sound a bit odd but if you ever pan through the Sky there are shows on during the day (repeats) that were deemed unsuitable for pre-watershed viewing when I was a kid (am 31)

Kids don't have manners anymore either I always think it's odd the way neighbours kids refer to me by my first name. Again very small by comparison to the post from the OP but the problems have to start somewhere raising children seems to have changed dramatically and not for the better

This:

Reoil wrote: »

Here's an idea: this **** has always happened - at least now people are finding out and reporting it.
Catholic priest abuse scandal? Ring any bells? **** was happening "back in your day" too and long before...

The rates of abuse, murder, teenage delinquency etc haven't gone up by much, if at all. It's just that these days we're hearing about it. People have been bemoaning 'the youth of today' and 'the decline of society' since the year dot.

As for the 'calling adults by their forenames' that's also completely rubbish. Both my OH and I called all our uncles, aunts, and neighbours by their forenames and we're in our thirties. I hate it when my nieces and nephews call me Auntie Kylith; my name is not Auntie.

Reoil

Crooked Jack wrote: »

You're missing the point, i'm referring to the age of the offender more than the offense.

Sorry, what age were Jamie Bulger's murders?

prinz

Dudess wrote: »

Rape of a small child, kids not calling adults Mr/Mrs/Miss whatever (Jesus I'd cringe if someone referred to me by a title) - does not compute.

Nobody is arguing they are the same but there is definitely a change for the worse in how a lot of younger people are developing a major chip on their shoulders which is resulting in mindless thuggery... and no amount of 'it happened back in the day too' is accurate. Yes shít happened back in the day, but nowhere close to the same extent and as widespread. Anti-social behaviour is becoming second nature to a lot of the younger generations at younger ages and it's absolutely pointless to pretend nothing has changed over time, because it obviously has. Perhaps you're more insulated to it, but I'm not and plenty of others aren't.

Mr Benevolent

prinz wrote: »

Nobody is arguing they are the same but there is definitely a change for the worse in how a lot of younger people are developing a major chip on their shoulders which is resulting in mindless thuggery... and no amount of 'it happened back in the day too' is accurate. Yes shít happened back in the day, but nowhere close to the same extent and as widespread. Anti-social behaviour is becoming second nature to a lot of the younger generations at younger ages and it's absolutely pointless to pretend nothing has changed over time, because it obviously has. Perhaps you're more insulated to it, but I'm not and plenty of others aren't.

Point to some statistics and I'll believe you. Otherwise that's just media hype.

foxyboxer

hairyprincess wrote: »

He needs rehabilitation. But will he get it? Doubtful.

His parents should be held to account to some extent

I'd be more concerned about the 5 year olds mental state tbh.

Crooked Jack

Reoil wrote: »

Sorry, what age were Jamie Bulger's murders?

I said it was more common, I never said it was unheard of.
But it's a fair point, am I wrong then, is this nothing new, are teenagers (particularly younger ones) just the same as they ever were?
Maybe it's just because Im comparing them to my own sexual development, I mean at 14 I considered fingering to be the holy grail, a girl wanting to go any further would have scared the shite out of me

strobe

http://www.capitalpunishmentuk.org/child.html

16 year old James Booty suffered [hanging] at Tyburn on Monday, the 21st of May 1722 for the rape of a five year old girl.

16 year old Giles East was executed at Surrey’s Horsemonger Lane prison on the 20th of January 1823 for raping a little girl.

On Saturday 18th March 1738, sixteen year old Mary Grote or Groke was tied a hurdle and drawn along in a procession behind a cart containing two men, John Boyd and James Warwick, to Gallows Hill on the outskirts of Winchester in Hampshire. Here she was held until the two men had been hanged before being led to a large wooden stake nearby. She was chained to this and bundles of ******s placed round her. The executioner would have endeavoured to strangle her with a rope noose before igniting the fire and reducing the hopefully unconscious girl to ashes. Mary had been convicted of the Petty Treason murder, by poisoning, of her mistress, Justine Turner.

16 year old William Duell was hanged, along with four others, at Tyburn on the 24th of November 1740. He had been convicted of raping and murdering Sarah Griffin and was to be anatomised after execution. He was taken to Surgeon’s Hall for this but signs of life were discovered and he was revived and later had his sentence commuted to transportation.

Elizabeth Morton, aged fifteen, was hanged at Gallows Hill, Nottingham on the 8th of April 1763 for the murder of the two year old child of her employer, John Oliver.

At the Dorset Lent Assizes in Dorchester in March 1794, fifteen year old Elizabeth Marsh was convicted of the murder of her grandfather, John Nevil. In accordance with the provisions of the Murder Act of July 1752 she was required to be hanged two days later, which would have been a Sunday, a day on which executions were not permitted. As was normal the judge in her case delayed sentencing her to the end of the Assize on thus giving her an extra day of life. Elizabeth would have been kept in chains and only allowed bread and water between sentence and execution. She was hanged on Monday the 17th of March and was the first person to be executed outside the new County Gaol in Dorchester. Her body was afterwards given to local surgeons for dissection.

Ann Mead, aged sixteen was found guilty of the murder of Charles Proctor, aged sixteen months, by feeding him a spoonful of arsenic at Royston in Hertfordshire. She expiated her crime on the “New Drop” gallows outside Hertford prison on Thursday the 31st of July 1800, watched by a large crowd.

On the 6th of May 1806, 15 year old Peter Atkinson suffered at York Castle for cutting and maiming Elizabeth Stockton.

On the 22nd of March 1819, 16 year old Hannah Bocking became probably the youngest girl to be executed in the 19th century when she was publicly hanged outside Derby’s Friar Gate Gaol for the murder, by poisoning, of Jane Grant.

16 year old William Jennings became the last person to be hanged at Gallows Hill, Appleby in Westmoreland when he was executed on the 23rd of March 1829 for the rape of Agnes Corothwaite.

14 year old John Any Bird Bell was executed on the 1st of August 1831 at Maidstone in Kent for the murder of 13 year old Richard Taylor. John and his 11 year old brother, James, killed Richard Taylor for the sum of nine shillings (45p) which he was collecting from the Parish on behalf of his disabled father. They were tried on Friday, the 29th of July and because the second day after sentence would have been a Sunday, John was hanged on the Monday using the "New Drop" scaffold, erected outside Maidstone prison. Bell was probably the youngest person to be hanged in the 19th century.

Yep, yep, yep, things like this never used to happen back in the day, the modern world is fucked, the kids today are savages. Naturally I blame the internet, TV advertising, video games, porn, the lack of religious influence, poor manners being thought by parents and most of all the fact that they have no real punishment to fear when they are caught. If only all those things were different, there would never be these kinds of cases happening.

Crooked Jack

Woah. That was impressive. Well played sir.

Dudess

christmas2012 wrote: »

that is sick,but sick today could mean 'cool',there is no value on humanity today a lot of it is this pop and porn culture,years ago nobody had internet to look at porn all day or have transparent views on certain issues,you were expected to have an opinion of value,earn your grades etc,not spoonfed them,today its all very ambiguous and superficial..

Gas. :pac:

If only we could go back to the good old medieval days of widespread torture, rape, infant mortality, child labour, etc.

Depraved people of any age have always existed - discipline or no discipline.
I will concede the fact that kids aren't getting the bejaysus beaten out of them like 50 years ago, or don't have the threat of an industrial school hanging over them, has caused a diminishing of fear, but I know which I'd prefer.

Paddycrumlinman

Here’s the problem folks. This kid did not wake up one day and say to himself I’m going to go rape a young girl of 5. In every case like this in the same way as 80% of Prisoners around the world suffered abuse in their life’s in one way or another.

This is a child who did this, however, we do not know what triggered this off in his head. I’ve so many questions going through my mind with this individual. How was his behavior in general, how is his family, who took care of him and raised him? What external influences has this 14 year old being previously subjected to. Was he abused himself, sexually or physically? Was he a bully or being bullied? Did his family give a **** about him? Was he properly loved and wanted?

We don’t know any of the above and as a Society we need to look at issues like this from a sociological point of view. I’m pretty sure he was let down by family and state probably many times in his life. Again, kids do not wake up one morning and decide to be a rapist, there are underling issues which would have caused this and those my friends are the real issues at hand.

Society has gone to the dogs, always has been if were honest and we as humans need to get to the root of these issues. Not for one minute am I condoning what this human being did, however we need to look at the roots of the issues in hand with Society and as many folks have said, people don’t give a s hit about anyone else these days other than what they can take out of life themselves and foook everyone else.

The OP stated what is wrong with young people today. I would saying nothing because the people who are supposed to care for them don’t do their job. So it should be read, what is wrong with Adults that create children like this today.

ScumLord

Paddycrumlinman wrote: »

Society has gone to the dogs,

Society has not "gone to the dogs", we've been gradually improving from a state of wild, but it takes a long time. We've essentially been modifying standard animal instincts for thousands of years now.

We didn't start with a perfect society and let it slide, we started with nothing and have been developing civilised society from scratch. The barbarism humans can dish out is not at all surprising, the surprising part is that we're nothing like that most of the time.

hairyprincess

foxyboxer wrote: »

hairyprincess wrote: »

He needs rehabilitation. But will he get it? Doubtful.

His parents should be held to account to some extent

I'd be more concerned about the 5 year olds mental state tbh.

Absolutely, it goes without saying that the 5 year old will need some serious therapy. Nobody would deny that. But many would say that the 14 year old should be just thrown in jail. And then what happens when he gets out after four or five years? He goes on to do the same thing?

Jail is not the answer for someone so young who could very easily be rehabilitated. If he fails to cooperate then steps should be taken to ensure that he is never left alone with a child.

prinz

Confab wrote: »

Point to some statistics and I'll believe you. Otherwise that's just media hype.

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/education/latest-news/violent-behaviour-on-the-increase-in-primary-schools-survey-reveals-2181333.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7468377.stm

http://www.tyronetimes.co.uk/news/local/41-rise-in-teenage-offenders-1-2952241

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0122/crime.html

Most disturbing are the signs of increased violence among younger women who, at the most extreme level, are forming menacing American-style gangs on some inner-city housing estates. (Elizabeth Hurley, the actress and model was famously mugged by such a gang in London last year.) In a survey by Demos , the independent think-tank, it emerges that in the 15 to 17 age group, girls are more likely to take pleasure in violence than boys, suggesting that we may have a new generation of female aggressors in the making.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/girls-get-violent-1345290.html

Last month, a survey by the Association of Teachers and Lecturers found that more than three-quarters of primary school teachers believed pupils were becoming aggressive at an earlier age.
Fifty-five per cent said behaviour had worsened over the last five years and almost two-thirds had witnessed physical aggression from pupils.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2009/dec/31/suspended-violent-primary-school-pupils

Some 40% of teachers surveyed said student behaviour had got worse over the past two years, while 58% said it had worsened over the past five.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2009/apr/06/teachers-abuse-violence-pupils-parents

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/03/100301111405.htm

She adds: "We all expect to see rough and tumble but I have seen little ones acting out quite graphic scenes in the playground and there is a lot more hitting, hurting, thumping etc in the classroom for no particular reason."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-17600454

The number of parents being terrorised and assaulted by their violent children is growing, parenting charities warn......A research project by Dr Rachel Condry, at Oxford University's Centre of Criminology, has so far concluded it is a "significant" and "increasing" problem in the UK.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/rise-in-parents-terrorised-by-their-children-7079798.html

Media hype, all of it.

Mr Benevolent

I love listening to people who say that society has gone to the dogs. They've obviously never learned anything useful about history, politics or society.

prinz

strobe wrote: »

Yep, yep, yep, things like this never used to happen back in the day, the modern world is fucked....

You've got 11 cases there spanning 100+ years.

Dudess

Confab wrote: »

I love listening to people who say that society has gone to the dogs. They've obviously never learned anything useful about history, politics or society.

Yeah it doesn't involve much thought - I mean, when you consider the sh1t that was acceptable in days of yore...

davet82

strobe wrote: »

http://www.capitalpunishmentuk.org/child.html



Yep, yep, yep, things like this never used to happen back in the day, the modern world is fucked, the kids today are savages. Naturally I blame the internet, TV advertising, the lack of religious influence, poor manners being thought by parents and most of all the fact that they have no real punishment to fear when they are caught. If only all those things were different, there would never be these kinds of cases happening.

*


*He rests his case :pac:

strobe

prinz wrote: »

You've got 11 cases there spanning 100+ years.

They are from capitalpunishmentuk. They are only a selection of my choosing from the link, of the cases from the surviving records that they could find, that resulted in the execution of the offender, where the offender was known to be under 18 years old. Not an exhaustive list of all 'heinous' crimes committed by minors during the time period.

Court records often did not give the age of defendants sentenced to death and in some cases the only guide to their age is how old they told the Ordinary they thought they were. Registration of births was not required prior to 1837. Executions of teenagers were not reported in early newspapers, where they existed, so it is not easy to trace all of the executions of juveniles in the 18th century. Here are some reliable examples, rather than a conclusive list.

Dudess

The most famous quote condemning the youth of the day was written in Ancient Greece.

toexpress

Dudess wrote: »

Rape of a small child, kids not calling adults Mr/Mrs/Miss whatever (Jesus I'd cringe if someone referred to me by a title) - does not compute.

Are you trying to compare the two? Are you saying a child calling an adult is the same as a teenager raping a child?

kylith

prinz wrote: »

Most disturbing are the signs of increased violence among younger women who, at the most extreme level, are forming menacing American-style gangs on some inner-city housing estates. (Elizabeth Hurley, the actress and model was famously mugged by such a gang in London last year.)

I suggest you do some reading on the teddy boys of the '50s or the mods and rockers in the '60s. Gang culture is nothing new.

prinz

strobe wrote: »

They are from capitalpunishmentuk. They are only a selection of my choosing from the link of the recorded cases they could find that resulted in the execution of the offender. Not an exhaustive list of all heinous crimes committed by minors. Your a smart guy Prinz, c'mon now.

I know, I know, but I haven't tried to argue crap like that didn't happen in the past... but the teachers, charities, police forces, etc in the links I posted earlier must be imagining things according to some.

prinz

kylith wrote: »

Gang culture is nothing new.

Where did I suggest 'gang culture' was something new?

strobe

Domo230 wrote: »

You forgot to blame video games. :pac:

How silly of me, edited and video games and porn added.

hooradiation

prinz wrote: »

Media hype, all of it.

Yup. Pretty much.

prinz

hooradiation wrote: »

Yup. Pretty much.

Yeah I mean what kind of experience would teachers and school principals have of the changing attitudes of children over the years.