Update to the Boards.ie Terms and Conditions

Dav

Hello all,

We're looking at rolling out some updates to our Terms and Conditions and Privacy Policy, so I've attaced them below for review before they come into effect.

There aren't very many significant changes, but the biggest one is that if there you feel you are being defamed or your copyright infringed upon, you need to contact the office directly - reporting the post is no longer adequate as these are potential legal issues and so Nicola and I need to know about to take the appropriate action.

We've also added some sections in which apply only to Verified Reps, but since they're members too, they are also bound by the same Ts & Cs as the rest of the site.

I'll do my best to answer any questions you might have - we're looking at implementing these updates on the 1st of June.

[UPDATE]
Updated today 02-07-12 with a couple of issues that were spotted below.

Terms of Use 02/07/'12 (PDF)
Privacy Policy 02/07/'12 (PDF)

minidazzler

Hmm, does that mean every instance of calling someone a shill could get referred to you guys?

And does all personal abuse fall under being defamed or just attacks on character?

Lawyers ruin everything.

Just for arguments sake a poster called dinimazzler calls me a prick, presumably that gets treated as normal and is reported using the report button?

But the same scoundrel calls me a Nazi sympathising fascist (or worse, French), I email you guys?

Sully

minidazzler wrote: »

Hmm, does that mean every instance of calling someone a shill could get referred to you guys?

And does all personal abuse fall under being defamed or just attacks on character?

Lawyers ruin everything.

Just for arguments sake a poster called dinimazzler calls me a prick, presumably that gets treated as normal and is reported using the report button?

But the same scoundrel calls me a Nazi sympathising fascist (or worse, French), I email you guys?

Yes, it would still be treated as personal abuse which isn't allowed so this is sorted the usual way via Reported Posts. I'm not to sure if anybody could actually argue, or even try, in a court that being called a "prick" online was defamatory.

Defamatory is the more serious allegations that are reported to mods from time to time, mostly from the person being defamed, who then flagged it with the office. From these T&C onwards, you report directly to the office who deal with it.

drunkmonkey

Just on Advertisements, do you feedback to the Advertisers the username of the boards users along with their IP. Have they a way of matching the 2 together.

For example if Sully calls Pampers a ****ty company, then pampers run an ad campaign and boards serve the ad to Sully are they then able to see Sully's IP address. If this information was provided to someone like an ISP advertising they would know who he is. Not sure if I like the idea of that if it's possible.

Sully

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Just on Advertisements, do you feedback to the Advertisers the username of the boards users along with their IP. Have they a way of matching the 2 together.

For example if Sully calls Pampers a ****ty company, then pampers run an ad campaign and boards serve the ad to Sully are they then able to see Sully's IP address. If this information was provided to someone like an ISP advertising they would know who he is. Not sure if I like the idea of that if it's possible.

Nope. Advertisers would only ever be told the amount of impressions (views) and clicks a particular advert got. I am unaware of any ad service that records the IPs of views, or clicks. Its not important statistics. Neither is who clicked the advert.

The company website will be able to see the IPs of everyone that followed the link from Boards, but not the username.

Remember, Boards are bound by Data Protection Laws and they can not provide anybody's IP address without a court order.

Morag

Great to see an anti bullying/stalking/harassment policies spelt out in the terms of use.

Dav

The Defamation and Copyright stuff - because these are the 2 main reasons Boards gets legal threats, we need to make sure we're doing our best to resolve the issues as quickly as possible and the handiest way to do that is for Nicola and I to take care of legal complaints.

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Just on Advertisements, do you feedback to the Advertisers the username of the boards users along with their IP. Have they a way of matching the 2 together.

Just to re-iterate what Sully's said - there's no way we'd ever tie a member to an IP address for anyone unless ordered to by court order or a garda as a part of a Section 8 request.

Fr_Dougal

Have moderators been given guidelines on privacy and the disclosure of information that they may be privy to, in their moderating duties, to third parties/non-moderators?

Dav

That's a pretty good question actually, but isn't strictly related to this. However, I'm more than happy to answer it.

Mods (and CMods) have at their disposal a tool we call ModUtils (it's actually just been updated in the last couple of months). Within that, mods can compare one member to another to check if they're a re-reg for example but they don't get access to any personally identifying information about any poster on the site. ModUtils displays IP Address 1, IP Address 2, etc rather than the actual IP (or email) of any member.

Admins to have access to all details of a member, including email address, IP address and so on. They are well aware of their responsibilities with regards to keeping this data private.

On top of all that, mods are never meant to share mods eyes only information with anyone - if it's serious, they'll be demodded. If it's accidental, well then we have extremely serious words with people about their responsibilities to ensure that they're the only ones who ever see this information. If their acocunt has been compromised, we may have to get the Gardaí involved.

PC CDROM

Do you share our data with your sister sites?

There is a bit about linking to the sister sites and thus permission from them to link to the user but nothing about sharing information? IP Address, ads etc?

Sully

PC CDROM wrote: »

Do you share our data with your sister sites?

There is a bit about linking to the sister sites and thus permission from them to link to the user but nothing about sharing information? IP Address, ads etc?

Good question but id assume they are still covered by the Data Protection Act and I don't see fully how the sister sites would take advantage from our IPs?

PC CDROM

Sully wrote: »

Good question but id assume they are still covered by the Data Protection Act and I don't see fully how the sister sites would take advantage from our IPs?

Being established on boards but trolling the arse out of the journal.ie.


Would there be a conflict?

looksee

We may change, modify, add or delete potions

Privacy policy document, section 1 para 4!

Page 7, para 9 of new terms of use, that para seems to be missing some words?

Dav

Update with the couple of fixes looksee noticed (thank you!). New links in the OP.

Encrypted Pigeon

Just curious as I cant see it, what is the policy on closing (since the close feature is relatively new) your account for legitimate/personal reasons and later re-registering? I presume 6.2 "You will not create more than one personal profile." covers it? or should that be at any one time?

blatantrereg

Sintel wrote: »

Just curious as I cant see it, what is the policy on closing (since the close feature is relatively new) your account for legitimate/personal reasons and later re-registering? I presume 6.2 "You will not create more than one personal profile." covers it? or should that be at any one time?

I reckon they dont mind too much

yorbloke

a bit late for me... i've asked boards.ie for help regarding abusive,stalking threatening emails i've recieived from one of their moderators..!!! now it seems i have a bagfull of these self proclaimed teuth bearers following all over Boards.ie banning me for any whim at all... what a joke of site.. freedom of speech my arse. big business ya mean..!

PeteK*

As far as I know, freedom of speech doesn't extend to message boards.. message boards are private spaces, even if you can freely join and anonymously read them on the net.

yorbloke

looks like i just found that out.. but thanks

Dav

PC CDROM wrote: »

Do you share our data with your sister sites?

There is a bit about linking to the sister sites and thus permission from them to link to the user but nothing about sharing information? IP Address, ads etc?

Sully wrote: »

Good question but id assume they are still covered by the Data Protection Act and I don't see fully how the sister sites would take advantage from our IPs?

My understanding of it is, there are ways and means to link accounts accross the group - for example, you can sign into Adverts with your Boards account etc. I'm not 100% certain on what (if any) information we're allowed to share between the group's companies behind the scenes though - I'll get that checked out ASAP. I would personally always err on the side of caution and expect that we have the paper-work in place before handing any details over, but that may not be necessary. The Commish is checking this out with the solicitor today.

As for yorbloke, well I've searched for any instances of where he's reported this harassment (he hasn't) and he decided before closing his account to go on a spree of abusive posts and PMs because he obviously felt some sort of need to "fight da powah". I'd love to be able to help him out, but he didn't give me the opportunity - if you're reading this, please get in touch with me so we can try and sort it out.

PeteK*

Dav wrote: »

I'm not 100% certain on what (if any) information we're allowed to share between the group's companies behind the scenes though - I'll get that checked out ASAP.

It says it on those attachments.. I remember seeing it somewhere.. and there's like.. 10 sites listed.

Dav

Well so everyone's aware, here are the sites within the Distilled Media group:

• Boards.ie
• BoardsDeals.ie
• Adverts.ie
• TheJournal.ie
• Daft.ie
• Rent.ie
• Property.ie
• Let.ie

The text within the Ts & Cs allows for us to do things like signing into Adverts with your Boards account (and for expansion to offer similar functionallity to other sites in the group). The intent, as far as I'm aware is not to assist with legal issues, I'm afraid I'm unsure on that particular area of law and the sharing of data between the individual companies within the group like that. But, I have flagged it and am hoping to get word back from the legal team within the next day or two.

amen

Privacy Policy
Page 2

Technical details in connection with visits to this website are logged by our internet service provider for our statistical purposes

You don't mention what boards does with Apache/IIS logs that collects such information as IP Address, web browser etc. Just because the ISP used in your data centre is capturing the information routed across the network to your servers does not mean you are not also collecting it. This to me is a badly worded statement. I assume you are refering to the actual logs on the boards.ie server(s).

Page 2

The providers we use are Google Analytics and IrelandMetrix. You can find further information on these at the following locations:

You mention two providers but have links to three. Why ?

Page 2

The providers we use are Google Analytics and IrelandMetrix. You can find further information on these at the following locations:

You don't mention that this data may not be stored in an EU country. I think you need to specify if data on EU citizens maybe stored outside of the EU Zone.

Page 2

We cannot identify you from your log files.

Of course you can. You have the login time on the boards site, a record in the server logs and ip address etc.

Page 8

boards.ie Limited acts in accordance with the
Data Protection Commissioner’s Guidelines in respect of personal data.

It would be nice if you provided a link to this guide.

Boards Terms of Use
Page 1

You agree and acknowledge that boards.ie Limited is an information society service providers,

No s required on providers

Page 4

Post Material that could be construed as scandalising the courts

should be lower case p to match the other words on that page

Page 14

boards.ie Limited may at its sole discretion for any reason (i) delete,

but on a prior page you state that boards.ie will never delete a user account. So which is it?

Page 14

The violation of these Terms of Use, our Privacy Statement, our Guidelines
by you, ,

two commas, only one required

Some general items.

I just checked the Public Register for the Irish Data Protection Commissioner http://www.dataprotection.ie and I don't see a registration for Boards.ie or Distilled Media group. Please tell me I am incorrect and provide a link to where you are registered.

darraghdoyle

amen wrote: »

I just checked the Public Register for the Irish Data Protection Commissioner http://www.dataprotection.ie and I don't see a registration for Boards.ie or Distilled Media group. Please tell me I am incorrect and provide a link to where you are registered.

Just so you know (and I worked on this in my time there) there was no obligation for Boards.ie to join the Public Register. That's what the Data Protection Commission office told us (and me personally)

Also, IP addresses are no longer considered personal data under the Data Protection Act or Irish Law (court ruling 19 April 2010, link here)

Other than that, nice work on those edits.

Orion

darraghdoyle wrote: »

Also, IP addresses are no longer considered personal data under the Data Protection Act or Irish Law (court ruling 19 April 2010, link here)

They are according to the DPC and the European Court of Justice
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/music-companies-claim-data-protection-commissioner-is-unwinding-agreement-3116771.html
http://businessetc.thejournal.ie/massive-blow-to-music-industry-as-eircom-anti-piracy-measures-rejected-307584-Dec2011/

Dav

I've been reviewing the issues amen raised this afternoon (and will continue to tomorrow) - thanks very much for the help - I've been busy helping Gordon out with our submission to the Copyright Reform Commission (which we'll talk more about tomorrow as we need to get it submitted today), so that's taken up a lot of my time.

As for the ruling by Justice Charlton, I would personally still hold with IPs being private though - the reasons being it is quite literally your address on the internet, it's where you're coming from and in many cases, that's your home. I think the context as much as anything is important and was certainly a big part of Justice Charlton's decision - in this instance we're talking about a case where someone approaches an intermediary (Eircom in this instance) with an IP address and asks them to take action based on the knowledge that the IP is known to belong to that service provier and therefore one of their customers. I think, on the balance, that Justice Charlton has made the correct call here too - this is a 1 way communication, the IP address goes to the intermediary and they take action based on their own internal policies and procedures. To put it into a context for us, if someone came to us with an IP address saying "I was the recipient of harassment from someone from this IP address and I think they were stalking me via your site" then we'd look that person up based on the evidence given to us and may or may not take action if we need to. This, however should never work the other way where someone has a right to request an IP address from a data controller such as ourselves without the proper paperwork (i.e a Data Protection Act Section 8 request).

However, all of that is my opinion and interpretation of Justice Charlton's ruling and I'm nowhere near qualified enough to make that call on behalf of the company, so that too will go to the legal team for review.

The only other thing I'd like to address is the issue of us not being on the register - I actually thought we were, but then after reading Darragh's comments, I remembered those discussions with the Data Commissioners. I'm going to take another look at that.

Farcear

PRIVACY POLICY --
"You are permitted to register as a user of Board.ie and post comments if you are aged 18 or over." -- I assume that should be boards.ie!

justforgroups

Hiya
I posted a question on Friday about the T&C but haven't seen it appear yet? Got a message saying it had to be reviewed by a mod.

Spear

justforgroups wrote: »

Hiya
I posted a question on Friday about the T&C but haven't seen it appear yet? Got a message saying it had to be reviewed by a mod.

That's not possible, Feedback isn't pre-moderated.

justforgroups

Spear wrote: »

That's not possible, Feedback isn't pre-moderated.

Ok, but that's what displayed :-P It said it would take 24 hours to to modded which is why I waited until now to ask.
Not too worry - I'll post again.

justforgroups

Hi,
1) Will you require currently registered members to explicitly accept the new T&C? New members will be given that choice when they sign-up.

Legally, I suppose, everyone signed up under the previous T&C so would the new T&C be enforceable? Can you change them just like that?
If someone is using the site, I'm sure they'd need to know they are doing so under new T&C. Take an extreme example, where you change to allow boards.ie to sell personal information to third-parties - some members might decide not accept those terms of the site and stop use of the site, if given the information.

2) Following on from #1, will it be obvious to members that the T&C have changed, e.g. an automatic popup when you logon after the new T&C go live?

3) Is the actual text of the T&C that someone agreed to, as it was at the time it was clicked to accept them, stored with the user's account? If a court wanted to see the T&C a member agreed to, would they be able to?

Thks!