Ireland to wear black armbands when they play Italy

Hazys

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0517/irish-soccer-team-to-honour-loughinisland-victims.html

On 18 June 1994, patrons of a small bar at Loughinisland in Co Down were watching Ireland play Italy in the World Cup loyalist gunmen from the UVF opened fire, killing six men.

Ireland are due to play Italy at the European Championships next month - 18 years to the day since the murders.

Eerily this event happened 18 years ago to the day Ireland play Italy again in a major soccer tournament.

Insane that ordinary people from the North on both sides of the troubles couldn't sit down for 90 minutes to watch a major soccer game without something awful happening. 18 years is not a long time ago in history but i think it shows how far the island has come since then to live in relative peace.

A nice touch by UEFA that allow this small but rare gesture to happen.

The Radiator

Proper order

kitakyushu

Is that the first time teams have been allowed wear black armbands in a finals game? I can't remember it happening before.

Jimmy Iovine

kitakyushu wrote: »

Is that the first time teams have been allowed wear black armbands in a finals game? I can't remember it happening before.

It happened at the last World Cup and it involved Italy again. Roberto Rosato died on the day that they were playing their final group game against New Zealand and they wore them in his memory.

He played in the 1970 final versus Brazil and managed to get Pele's jersey afterwards. Probably the most famous jersey in the world.

nordydan

Proper order. I remember after the match my nieghbour next door desperately trying to get in contact with father from Loughinsland who normally drank at the bar, by chance he had decided to watch the match with a neighbour. Dreadful night

Deedsie

A great gesture by the FAI... Well impressed!

Old Gill

Came across this subject on a rangers forum (followfollow) and 90% of the posts are laughing at the disaster and deriding their luck that only 6 were dead and not 36. Glad to see some proper sympathy for what was a terrible naked sectarian attack and thank god as the OP said that those dark days seem to be behind us for good.

Felexicon

Heard this on the radio earlier and alot of people thought is was a bad idea to be dragging up the past like this and also throwing out the politics has no place in sport arguement.
I think it shows a touch of class by the FAI for once

Richard Hillman

Old Gill wrote: »

Came across this subject on a rangers forum (followfollow) and 90% of the posts are laughing at the disaster and deriding their luck that only 6 were dead and not 36. Glad to see some proper sympathy for what was a terrible naked sectarian attack and thank god as the OP said that those dark days seem to be behind us for good.

I think we will need to see a source after saying something like that.

WesternZulu

Felexicon wrote: »

Heard this on the radio earlier and alot of people thought is was a bad idea to be dragging up the past like this and also throwing out the politics has no place in sport arguement.
I think it shows a touch of class by the FAI for once

Them same people would have no issue if it was another country and would think it was an appropriate gesture.

No harm in Ireland donning black armbands to remember, well done the FAI.

StephenHendry

thats a novely gesture in rememberance of those died that night. the bitterness is still very much there as shown in the threats made to james mcclean on twitter

Fr Tod Umptious

Felexicon wrote: »

Heard this on the radio earlier and alot of people thought is was a bad idea to be dragging up the past like this and also throwing out the politics has no place in sport arguement.
I think it shows a touch of class by the FAI for once

A lot of people here did not think it was a good idea for England to wear a poppy in remembrance of their war dead for a game last November

Something about sport and politics do not mix.

Evil_Clown

Great and noble gesture by both the FAI and UEFA

The great minds that are the RTE pundits disagree however:

From: http://www.independent.ie/national-news/pundits-attack-fais-move-to-commemorate-massacre-3111510.html

EAMON Dunphy and John Giles yesterday criticised the decision to have the Ireland team wear black armbands during the match against Italy at Euro 2012 on June 18.

The FAI confirmed yesterday that Ireland will make the symbolic gesture to commemorate the victims of a loyalist massacre in a Co Down village on the 18th anniversary of the atrocity.

The armbands will be worn in memory of the victims of the Loughinisland shooting on June 18, in 1994.

Six Catholic men were killed by UVF gunmen as Ireland played Italy at the World Cup in the US.

The families contacted the FAI about marking the anniversary and they in turn requested permission from the tournament's governing authority UEFA for the commemoration.

UEFA gave the go-ahead, but both of RTE's leading football pundits said yesterday that such overtly political issues should not have a place in football.

Mr Dunphy said it was "getting into dangerous territory".

"My own view would be no, I don't think it is particularly appropriate," he told the Irish Independent.

"I think reopening the wounds of a fresh conflict is probably not the wisest thing to do.

"I would say don't go there, you're into dangerous territory. And for footballers and sports people in general, they wouldn't always have the political antennae, should we say."

He added that there were other nations involved in the tournament -- including Croatia and Russia -- with "dark histories".

"We would want to be very careful about dragging politics into sport," he said.

Mr Dunphy pointed out that he wore an armband himself to commemorate Bloody Sunday in Derry while playing for London club Millwall in 1972.

"I wore a black armband the Saturday after Bloody Sunday playing for Millwall, which was a gesture which all the other Irish players refused to join me in," he said.

"It was a personal thing, to show English people who knew nothing about why they were even in Ireland, that this had happened. But I would be very careful about that kind of stuff."

'Sentiments'

Speaking during RTE's launch of the Euro 2012 coverage in Dublin yesterday, Mr Giles also expressed concern about the move.

"I would prefer to see it kept out of it," Mr Giles said in relation to the politicisation of tournaments.

"I can understand some of the sentiments (surrounding) any atrocity.

"I don't know whose decision it was but I wouldn't be in favour of it." However, FAI chief executive John Delaney said yesterday that the black armbands were an opportunity to "remember all those who lost their lives in the Troubles".

Niall Murphy, the solicitor acting on behalf of the victims' families, thanked the FAI and UEFA for the decision.

"The families are touched that this tragic event can be commemorated on such a poignant day," he said.

Nobody has ever been convicted of the massacre in which two men walked into the rural pub and opened fire.

Adrian Rogan (34); Malcolm Jenkinson (53); Barney Greene (87); Daniel McCreanor (59); Patrick O'Hare (35); and Eamon Byrne (39) were all killed.

In 1997, the Irish team controversially wore black armbands before a World Cup qualifier away in Iceland to mark the passing of Diana, Princess of Wales, a week earlier.

Then-manager Mick McCarthy was prominent in the decision, stating that: "Princess Diana wasn't just a British celebrity -- she belonged to the world."

Felexicon

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

A lot of people here did not think it was a good idea for England to wear a poppy in remembrance of their war dead for a game last November

Something about sport and politics do not mix.

Jesus I forgot all about this. Don't really think it represents the same thing though.

Fr Tod Umptious

Felexicon wrote: »

Jesus I forgot all about this. Don't really think it represents the same thing though.

Yes there are differences but they both have their basis in politics, and if I recall the argument against the poppy was that it was introducing a political aspect to the event.

Remembrance of people who died in the NI conflict, regardless of what the circumstances, has a political aspect to it.

What would be the reaction here if NI decided to wear black armbands to remember the 8 innocent people killed in the Shankill fish shop bombing ?

Felexicon

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Yes there are differences but they both have their basis in politics, and if I recall the argument against the poppy was that it was introducing a political aspect to the event.

Remembrance of people who died in the NI conflict, regardless of what the circumstances, has a political aspect to it.

What would be the reaction here if NI decided to wear black armbands to remember the 8 innocent people killed in the Shankill fish shop bombing ?

Oh sorry I may have given you the impression that I think politics and sport should be kept seperate. I don't

Fr Tod Umptious

Felexicon wrote: »

Oh sorry I may have given you the impression that I think politics and sport should be kept seperate. I don't

Yes, keeping sport and politics sperate is a utopian fantasy if you ask me, the real world we live in means that they are very closely entwined

A Dub in Glasgo

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

A lot of people here did not think it was a good idea for England to wear a poppy in remembrance of their war dead for a game last November

Something about sport and politics do not mix.

This is a gesture of dignity to remember innocent people who were murdered whilst watching an Ireland game 18 years ago. If you think that is the same as England wearing a red poppy for British security forces who died or are injured in the course of their conflicts then more fool you

Mr. Presentable

The problem with the poppy thing was its integration into the shirt. The armband is a separate item.

Fr Tod Umptious

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

This is a gesture of dignity of to remember innocent people who were murdered whilst watching a Ireland game. If you think that is the same as England wearing a red poppy for British security forces who died or are injured in the course of their conflicts then more fool you

Please read all my posts

I said it was different

But both have a basis in politics and that is what makes it similar to England wearing poppy.

And if I recall people on this board were very much against politics, in the form of the poppy, being introduced into the game at international level.

J Cheever Loophole

I remember that night very well. That was in the middle of some bad times, when all the doors in bars in Armagh were closed and only opened on a knock and a check of the CCTV images. I still recall how the celebrations after the match became very muted when the awful news filtered through.

I know no-one has said it here, but I think that it is important to emphasise that those killed in Loughinisland were absolutely non political. That said, I understand too why the likes of Giles and Dunphy are voicing their concerns.

Personally though, I think it is a marvellous gesture - the Irish team remembering Irish supporters who lost their lives during one of the great Irish triumphs.

TangyZizzle

Old Gill wrote: »

s a terrible naked sectarian attack and thank god

Don't you think it's a little odd to thank a 'God' for something that was caused by someone's belief in it?

Felexicon

TangyZizzle wrote: »

Don't you think it's a little odd to thank a 'God' for something that was caused by someone's belief in it?

Not a religous discussion! Jog on

ShooterSF

Felexicon wrote: »

Not a religous discussion! Jog on

Indeed it's not. However, people mistakenly misuse religious labels in place of political ones in this country and that causes confusion. No one killed another person in the north over transubstantiation or other clerical disagreements. It's a shame people are too quick to say "Catholic" instead of "Nationalist" or "Protestant" instead of "Royalist". Though that's an argument for another forum and one well worth taking place at some time.

On the topic it's not really political but rather remembering the deaths of innocent Irish fans and apart from the differences in the cause of those deaths is not not too dissimilar to how liverpool pay remembrance to Hillsborough fans in my opinion.

inmyday

Felexicon wrote: »

Not a religous discussion! Jog on

True, but its not a politics forum either, and we are discussing what happened during the troubles, as the irish soccer team is wearing an armband to remember some people who have died. And as we all know religion has a lot to do with partition of the island and the troubles, "Home rule, is Rome rule" etc...

I would rather they didnt wear it. All the tragedies that happened in the past, means that Ireland could wear black armbands at every match they play, same with nearly every team in this tournament. Every country has a history, and some of it was horrible. But I dont think it involves football.

Felexicon

inmyday wrote: »

True, but its not a politics forum either, and we are discussing what happened during the troubles, as the irish soccer team is wearing an armband to remember some people who have died. And as we all know religion has a lot to do with partition of the island and the troubles, "Home rule, is Rome rule" etc...

I would rather they didnt wear it. All the tragedies that happened in the past, means that Ireland could wear black armbands at every match they play, same with nearly every team in this tournament. Every country has a history, and some of it was horrible. But I dont think it involves football.

But the point is that they are playing the same team on the same date. Its not like they just plucked this idea out of thin air

inmyday

Felexicon wrote: »

But the point is that they are playing the same team on the same date. Its not like they just plucked this idea out of thin air

True true. But I dont think the fai and the rep irish team should be involved in this. Its politics not soccer.

Felexicon

inmyday wrote: »

True true. But I dont think the fai and the rep irish team should be involved in this. Its politics not soccer.

You're right the shooting dead of football fans while watching a game of football has nothing to do with football

Alias G

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I think we will need to see a source after saying something like that.

He's given a source, the Rangers forum followfollow. I'm sure it wouldn't be too much trouble for you to log onto said forum and find out for yourself if you're so disbelieving there Dick.

Back on topic, I think it is a suitable tribute to an utterly tragic event.

Carlos_Ray

Fair play to the FAI. I'm quick to criticise them so I'll give credit where credit is due. It'll be a poignant tribute to the horrific juxtaposition of innocent Irish fans being massacred while watching one of Ireland's most famous sporting achievements. Truly evil atrocity.

Anyone trying to make a comparison between this and the English poppy issue is either a troll or a complete and utter fool.

Fr Tod Umptious

Carlos_Ray wrote: »

Anyone trying to make a comparison between this and the English poppy issue is either a troll or a complete and utter fool.

I am neither thank you very much.

bobmalooka

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I think we will need to see a source after saying something like that.

from followfollow.com

**Thought this sort of thing was not allowed?**

**For ****s sake. Black armbands because they were shot watching a match between
the two teams, what a joke!**

**Ah well,
I suppose getting took out by the UVF whilst watching a football match involving a
foreign team on the telly is a worthy reason for a black armband .
Still doesn't bring them back though does it ..**

**Anybody got a contact email for FIFA, feel like sending a complaint to them,
warning them they are being used as pawns in a political wit*****, from a country
nothing to do with the murders.**

**Look at us, we are victims. Thats all this is about, scum is as scum does.**

**Only 6????????? Damn and Damn again..........**

**Houghton hit the net, the uvf hit the bar.**

**If they get beat 6-0 will that go down as ironic?**

Pure_Cork

Fair play to the FAI and UEFA for making this gesture.

monkey9

I think it's a good gesture towards the families. I think the match itself is on the actual anniversary, if not it's close to it. But this is only happening because we are playing Italy and it brings back painful memories to the families.

This isn't politics. It's not marking why it happened. It's just marking that it happened!!

monkey9

bobmalooka wrote: »

from followfollow.com

**Thought this sort of thing was not allowed?**

**For ****s sake. Black armbands because they were shot watching a match between
the two teams, what a joke!**

**Ah well,
I suppose getting took out by the UVF whilst watching a football match involving a
foreign team on the telly is a worthy reason for a black armband .
Still doesn't bring them back though does it ..**

**Anybody got a contact email for FIFA, feel like sending a complaint to them,
warning them they are being used as pawns in a political wit*****, from a country
nothing to do with the murders.**

**Look at us, we are victims. Thats all this is about, scum is as scum does.**

**Only 6????????? Damn and Damn again..........**

**Houghton hit the net, the uvf hit the bar.**

**If they get beat 6-0 will that go down as ironic?**

This kind of sh!t makes you despair!!

n32

bobmalooka wrote: »

from followfollow.com

**Thought this sort of thing was not allowed?**

**For ****s sake. Black armbands because they were shot watching a match between
the two teams, what a joke!**

**Ah well,
I suppose getting took out by the UVF whilst watching a football match involving a
foreign team on the telly is a worthy reason for a black armband .
Still doesn't bring them back though does it ..**

**Anybody got a contact email for FIFA, feel like sending a complaint to them,
warning them they are being used as pawns in a political wit*****, from a country
nothing to do with the murders.**

**Look at us, we are victims. Thats all this is about, scum is as scum does.**

**Only 6????????? Damn and Damn again..........**

**Houghton hit the net, the uvf hit the bar.**

**If they get beat 6-0 will that go down as ironic?**

The cowardly keyboard warriors behind those statements are the absolute scum of society. You have read the posts several times just to grasp the sheer venom of what they said. How could you say things like that about the murder of 6 innocent people who were watching a match and having a pint? I cant get over how people can be so poisonous. Society is fúcked when you see mindsets like that

Fr Tod Umptious

monkey9 wrote: »

I think it's a good gesture towards the families. I think the match itself is on the actual anniversary, if not it's close to it. But this is only happening because we are playing Italy and it brings back painful memories to the families.

This isn't politics. It's not marking why it happened. It's just marking that it happened!!

But by marking an event that had it's roots in a political situation, the status of NI, gives a political aspect to the wearing of the armbands.
It would not be politics if for example you were marking the crash of an Italian aircraft on Irish soli

monkey9

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But by marking an event that had it's roots in a political situation, the status of NI, gives a political aspect to the wearing of the armbands.
It would not be politics if for example you were marking the crash of an Italian aircraft on Irish soli

Yeah, i completely understand what you're saying. But this one is for the families. It's marking the deaths of Republic of Ireland supporters who died whilst watching the same fixture 18 years ago.