albums with dodgy production?

Coburger

Hey, what albums do you think would have sounded better with finer production? First that comes to mind is Metallica who have managed to have some below par production:

...And Justice for All
St Anger
Death Magnetic

120_Minutes

Undertow by tool. Puts me off listening to it.

PickledLime

Darkthrone - 'Transylvanian Hunger' (and an awful lot more black metal records). Yeah, i get that it's 'kvlt' to have a raw production, but not the point where everything is so treble-y and poorly distinguished that it cuts the wax from your ears :rolleyes:

Nevermore - 'Enemies of Reality'
Horrible, muddy production. As if more damning evidence was needed, the band had the album completely remixed and re-released.

Suffocation - 'Souls To Deny'
There's a nice, meaty production job on this, but Frank Mullen's vocals seem to sit 'on top' of the music and sounds removed from the rest of what's happening.

Rush - 'Vapour Trails
A sterling silver album, very obviously marred by the 'loudness wars'.

Anything that Billy Anderson has ever produced, ever
I've no idea, and i really mean no idea why this guy is so well regarded. Every album that i've heard that he's produced has the worst drum sound. Absolutely zero power in the toms/bass (Primordial's 'The Gathering Wilderness' and Neurosis' 'Through Silver and Blood' spring to mind). I'd prefer to listen to triggers than what this guy passes does. Ugh.

nyarlothothep

Hmmm, interesting thread. While I think good production sounds nice I really like some bands with bad production as it lends their records with character. The problem with overly refined production is that it introduces a kind of standardisation of sound, everything is too perfect and while that's the first thing people seek out, technical perfection rather than emotional depth or mood/atmosphere, I find that it can sometimes be very boring. For example half the charm of Venom's records I would attribute to the sh1tty production. Likewise with BM albums. There is a certain rawness and unique ambience which is generated through the non-adherence to the rules of good production. However that said it's kind of like films, unless you hit upon something which contrasts with the standard in a good way then it will just be sh1t.

Albums that I think could have had better production would be

Kill 'Em All by Metallica (the drums sound piffly, Seek and Destroy is massive song that sounds puny, the bass should have a lot more volume and drive and the drums sound incredibly weak).

AJFA and DM, for reasons everyone knows about

Mesmerise SOAD, vocals are too loud, especially the guitarist's

Just stir things up a bit I don't like the guitar sound at all on Still Life by Opeth, far too bassy and dry but that's just my preference

Anything produced by Steve Wilson. Everyone says he's amazing but for me anything he's done with PT sounds way too smooth and polished, it jars with me as I like a bit of grit on recordings, it brings the music to life. Wilson just makes everything too perfect, to slick, too velvety for my taste, it makes me feel nauseous.

Led Zep Physical Graffiti, sounds tired, there's distortion on the vocals in The Rover.

LH Pathe

I've no problem with the production aspects of what I like, because that was part of the appeal but most of it could defo do with a remastering to make it brighter or bring it closer or what - just the nature of the equipment from back when I guess

Nailz

Domination by Morbid Angel and Divine Intervention by Slayer. Otherwise both absolutely class albums, I do think that Domination would need better production to a greater extent than the Slayer album does, I think Divine Intervention is fine without it - the production it has helps it sound even more aggressive I think.

Also; an infinite amount of Black Metal albums, figuratively speaking.

Rothko

Raw Power - The Stooges

LH Pathe

Nailz wrote: »

I think Divine Intervention is fine without it - the production it has helps it sound even more aggressive I think

they were looking to achieve a type of brutal production there, opting for the ill-advised for best results I reckon like how the guitars seem tone down and it transferred to bostaph's toms n kickdrum to highlight new blood on top of his game it certainly works on killing fields, for instance but the thrash by numbers tracks made me think likewise.

Useful.Idiot

I think it completely depends on the band in question and also its very subjective. I love the production on Tool's Undertow for example, has a more raw hard rocky feel compared to their later albums.

And on some albums the rough production lends hugely to the atmosphere. Take for example Bathory's self-titled debut album, the quality of the recording is so poor yet it had one of the biggest impacts on the birth of the black metal scene. I doubt it would have been half a landmark that it is if it was recorded in a proper studio.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcpGUajRXfk

The kind of production I dislike is the over polished, crystal clean production that absorbs all the power out of the music. Thin sounding guitars and electronically triggered drum sounds that over power the rest of the music, a sound that's very prevelant in deathcore and tech death bands nowadays.

Frank Bullitt

Down on the upside by soundgarden, sounds like it was recorded with cardboard guitars and tinfoil mics

edhead

AC/DC Fly On The Wall.

Pity its almost unlistenable coz there are a couple cracking tunes on it.

For Those About To Rock is over polished too.

nyarlothothep

It's funny how so many records from the 80s sound really bad, too much chorus/reverb and the transfer to digital recording? 70s records sound really nice compared to the 80s sound, some of them like Dark Side sound better than most modern productions.

Conall Cernach

edhead wrote: »

AC/DC Fly On The Wall.

Pity its almost unlistenable coz there are a couple cracking tunes on it.

For Those About To Rock is over polished too.

I was just about to post Fly On The Wall. It's amazing that they were a huge act at the time and the record company allowed it to go out like that. They still got a top 30 hit with Shake Your Foundations though.

For me I'd add the over production on Kiss's 1987 Crazy Nights. Some potentially great rock tunes were reduced to synth pop.

buck65

Jesus ....And Justice For All was poor alright.

Heard Harvester of Sorrow (1st single?) on the radio when it came out and I honestly thought the god damn thing was broken.

Coburger

Speaking of albums were you thought the stereo was broken, did anyone ever listen to Endless Nameless by the Wildhearts.

Some good tunes are buried in there beneath some awful production. When I first listened to it I actually did check to make sure that the speakers were working.

D.Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ohRCOu81Lo

New lamb of god album was really let down by the production I felt. Few cracking tunes, but the guitars/drums and vocals are mixed terribly. Recorded in a tin shed or something.

A real pity becuase wrath had awesome production I thought. Everything was mixed perfectly for that style of metal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MkHwMwQSV4

Morlar

Not so much Metal as Rock but 'Darklands' by the Jesus and Mary chain was practically neutered in the mixing.

Joe_Dull

I nitpick the production on nearly every album I hear so I'll just take In Flames' as examples!

Lunar Strain - absolutely terrible in general.
Jester Race - not enough body or crunch in the guitars.
Clayman - again, the guitars are too bright without enough crunch.
Reroute to Remain - guitars too muddy and messy; vocals too quiet and robotic.
Come Clarity - very compressed, busy sound without much definition.
A Sense of Purpose - rhythm guitars too "dull" and solos too quiet; drums not prominent enough.

edhead

nyarlothothep wrote: »

It's funny how so many records from the 80s sound really bad, too much chorus/reverb and the transfer to digital recording? 70s records sound really nice compared to the 80s sound, some of them like Dark Side sound better than most modern productions.

Faith No More - The Real Thing has that thin 80's sound. Not aged well like a fine wine.
Compare the sound to Angel Dust & there is light years between the two.

Anyone ever notice the drum sound on a couple Aerosmith's 70's albums aint up to scratch? Compared to Bonham on IV for example.

jack presley

Iron Maiden (well Steve Harris anyway) apparently hate the production of the debut album but I like its rawness. Big difference in production though between it and Killers.

jack presley

edhead wrote: »

AC/DC Fly On The Wall.

Pity its almost unlistenable coz there are a couple cracking tunes on it.

For Those About To Rock is over polished too.

A couple of tracks only though. The rest of it would have sounded rubbish no matter how good the production was.

Same with St. Anger, I wouldn't think any improved production would make it a good album. The songs are awful. Would a better production have made the 'kill, kill, kill' bit at the end of the last song sound any better? probably not.

RayCon

Marillion - Script For A Jesters Tear .... love the album, hate the "tinny" production

SilverScreen

Morlar wrote: »

Not so much Metal as Rock but 'Darklands' by the Jesus and Mary chain was practically neutered in the mixing.

It doesn't sound that bad, although it has a very 80's production feel mainly due to the programmed drums and excess reverb.

I've always thought the production on Opeth's Ghost Reveries was below par, considering the excellent musical compositions on the album. It's a production style that's kind of typical on some more modern metal albums; very mid-heavy with a dry, compressed guitar sound, very little bass and the drums low in the mix complete with a weak, triggered kick drum sound. A bit more volume and a nice clear, solid low-end can go a long way. I've heard indie and alternative albums with more balls sound-wise.

mloc123

nyarlothothep wrote: »

Kill 'Em All by Metallica (the drums sound piffly, Seek and Destroy is massive song that sounds puny, the bass should have a lot more volume and drive and the drums sound incredibly weak).

I think it suits the album and the sound they had at the time.

stupidfishy

Coburger wrote: »

Death Magnetic

Death Magnetic was literally the first thing that came to mind the minute I read the thread title, not fond of Rick Rubin at all.
The whole album sounds like it's been wrapped in cellophane, it's got a sickly smooth sheen that's better left to the likes of Adele (he should just stick to that sort of thing and leave rock/metal alone!)

mloc123

stupidfishy wrote: »

(he should just stick to that sort of thing and leave rock/metal alone!)

He has produced some of the best rock/metal albums of the last 30years... It's not like he's a blow in.

SilverScreen

stupidfishy wrote: »

Death Magnetic was literally the first thing that came to mind the minute I read the thread title, not fond of Rick Rubin at all.
The whole album sounds like it's been wrapped in cellophane, it's got a sickly smooth sheen that's better left to the likes of Adele (he should just stick to that sort of thing and leave rock/metal alone!)

Yes and not produce albums like Slayer's Reign In Blood. Oh wait...

stupidfishy

mloc123 wrote: »

He has produced some of the best rock/metal albums of the last 30years... It's not like he's a blow in.

I completely agree that it's easy to see why people respect him so much in the first place but I really don't feel (personally) that he has done anything decent in at least the last five years, with some small exceptions.

I'm open to being proved wrong though, actually with him at the helm of new Black Sabbath I hope I am!

mike65

The 80s "sound" has dated pretty badly, go back to most music of that era esp "hard rock"
and you can't help but notice the the preponderance of 'top end'.

One album that is just terrible that I own is one of Cheap Tricks least well know - The Doctor. Nearly unlistenable.

mike65

nyarlothothep wrote: »

It's funny how so many records from the 80s sound really bad, too much chorus/reverb and the transfer to digital recording? 70s records sound really nice compared to the 80s sound, some of them like Dark Side sound better than most modern productions.

For me the 1970s was the apex of music production, the top acts were given a carte blanche and the analogue technology of the era was just coming to its "useable" peak as complex overdubbing became possible using 24 track desks. Though the tapes would remain a weak point, they can take only so many passes before the oxide breaks down. Mike Oldfield lost the first recording of Ommadawn as the tape became unusable, while parts of Night at the Opera
nearly suffered the same fate (on a 16 track machine used for Bohemian Rhapsody).

Clandestine

The Legacy by Testament comes to mind.