Weston Airport

N7777G

Due to no Air Traffic Control service apparently.

The beginning of the end for Weston I fear.

Oscar Bravo

Jeez that's not good. will this be more frequent or just the odd day here and there?

logie101

Not a good development at all. I hope that it is only a once of event.
EIAB isn't really a viable alternative for Dublin people. Kilrush would have made more sense.

Alaba320

Now NFC are saying they are relocating aircraft to Abbeyshrule UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE. Very inconvenient for people who have started their training with NFC but Abbeyshrule is too far out for them. I used to get the bus to Weston when I was training there and many others did. Abbeyshrule is just too far out for me even with a car.

Does anyone know exactly what is going on? Could this be then end for Weston?

logie101

Alaba320 wrote: »

Now NFC are saying they are relocating aircraft to Abbeyshrule UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE. Very inconvenient for people who have started their training with NFC but Abbeyshrule is too far out for them. I used to get the bus to Weston when I was training there and many others did. Abbeyshrule is just too far out for me even with a car.

Does anyone know exactly what is going on? Could this be then end for Weston?

It is very unlikely that it is going to result in the end of Weston. The issue causing the closure appears to be over air traffic cover.
With the longer evenings this is when NFC ideally want to be flying until the end of VFR. So any reduction in airport opening times will seriously affect NFCs ability to generate revenue.

Perhaps the solution would be the end of Weston to revert from class c thereby negating the need for the air traffic.

Alaba320

logie101 wrote: »

It is very unlikely that it is going to result in the end of Weston. The issue causing the closure appears to be over air traffic cover.
With the longer evenings this is when NFC ideally want to be flying until the end of VFR. So any reduction in airport opening times will seriously affect NFCs ability to generate revenue.

Perhaps the solution would be of Weston to revert from class c thereby negating the need for the air traffic.

Ah ok, I thought it may have be the owners shutting up shop to make the airport into something else. Which wouldn't really make sense after the upgrades and renovations they made last year.

Is it some sort of industrial dispute with the ATCO's? It's very strange that the decide on Monday that they are closing the airport 4 days later. It suggests that it wasn't foreseen.

I would have thought that due to its proximity to EIDW and Casement that it would need to be a controlled airfield. Having an uncontrolled field that close to Dublin would be asking for trouble in my opinion.

bombs away

Alaba320 wrote: »

I would have thought that due to its proximity to EIDW and Casement that it would need to be a controlled airfield. Having an uncontrolled field that close to Dublin would be asking for trouble in my opinion.

Weston only became class C recently in it's history, before that it survived perfectly well as a class G aerodrome. If there is no ATC cover then it should revert back to class G airspace and this is exactly what needs to happen in my opinion.

Of course this means that IFR arrivals and departures will be withdrawn while there's no cover but the majority of traffic in and out is VFR anyway so I don't think that will be much of an issue.

flyingcowboys

The heart of this problem lies with the new owners. If one looks back over the staff turnover over the last few months its clear to see the the current ATC staffing issues are not a a coincidence. Noel who was part of the furniture for the past 28 years in weston was let go late last year as he couldn't operate as fire crew so was deemed to be disposable and was promptly disposed off much to the anger of staff and long term customers and visitors. The young lads that were working the ramp are gone, poor wages and hours getting cut all the time. Staff turnover is the restaurant was huge, poor poor working conditions and lack of any security. Staff were turning up to to work, weather was bad and staff were getting sent home, how does one make a living like this??. These cost cutting measures were applied to controllers too which eventually led to (wont put real controllers names in, anyone who knows weston will know who im talking about) ***** leaving. ***** went to shannon to study, that leaves with who, **** and ******. Ive heard that one of the controllers is out for a while with no cover available. the question is who is gona come into weston to provide cover for the money and conditions being offered??

with regards to going back to class g airspace, I was talking a senior controller from dublin a few weeks back who said they will be pushing for a controller to be kept in weston as its too much of a head ache for them to have an uncontrolled airfield bang smack between bal and dub.

also was talking to some aircraft owners recently who have pulled aircraft as a result of being told to pay an extra €60 to hanger their aircraft or to provide 4 hours voluntary fire cover.

I cant see the owners wanting to get rid of ATC as they want to attract in corporate jets plus this college Ireland thing they're pushing. It just stinks of cutting so much fat away that they've alienated themselves from the employees and customers which has resulted in this current farce. I feel for the people who depend on it for a living and for all the students who have invested so much money in weston. Lets hope that the owners actions dont lead to another PTC situation where students lose a fortune and this time through no fault of the school.

Ill leave you with a quote a quote from a very larger than life individual we all know from weston " I cant build bridges, so I dont. He cant run an airport, so he should f*** off"

Madpaddy79

NFC should get in and get a deal with military and use Gormanstown. I'm sure the IAA could route their 10/16 traffic a few miles to the north! Plenty of hangar space / facilities there being wasted. There would be no need for ATCO's. Airfield is far enough from dub. Overheads would be less than Weston. It's just off the M1/N1 and is on a popular bus route. As for neighbours to annoy, it's very sparsely populated around there. And military could use the income I'm sure to bump up their budget. Think new!

Xpro

Bell 407 from heliservices ireland also left weston and their ops.

All this recent issues in weston are indeed totally inconvenient, short opening hours, crazy fees, etc. Doesn't help at all, and the way this guy runs the show instead of making money and attracting the aviation community, with his cost cutting measures, he seems to be pushing everyone away.

jasonb

Purely from a personal viewpoint, I really hope Weston doesn't get harder and harder to use. I'm currently doing a few hours to keep my PPL current, and I'd hate for there to be closures / issues that delay me.

In the long term, it'd be a shame for it to be used less and less for GA, and I hope any uncertainty is dealt with and a long term plan is put in place, whatever that might be.

J.

Quebec Delta Mike

Yes, Flyingcowboys has got it right, I suggest everyone read his post again...
The new (since Feb'13) owners have gradually and deliberately applied their "business" model to the staff and customers...e.g.

1.Forcing (not agreeing) ops staff to take 20-30% cuts in their hourly rates, and then cutting their hours. Most cannot clear €250 per week...who can raise a family on that?:eek:

2. Forcing (not agreeing) ATC staff to take 25% salary cuts...then outsourcing ATC from March 1st, sacking the ATCOs and expecting them to reapply for their own jobs at an hourly rate (no leave pay, no PRSI cover, no loss of licence insurance)....in other words, casual labourers...:eek:

3. Recently demanding a €60 per week hike in rates to based customers, or supply 4 hours Fire Crew cover....(talk about shooting yourself in the foot!!!)

The result has been devastating to the staff, many of whom have had to leave to continue making a living, or go on the dole...:mad:
The SATCO called it a day, and left the remaining two controllers, who now have zero hours contracts, no guaranteed income, and can be sent home on a rainy day! Replacements have to be trained up, and this takes months...

Currently, one of the two remaining ATCOs is out sick (for first time in 8 years), therefore leaving one ATCO to cover every day, a nine hour shift, without breaks or relief...so that cannot last long, hence the closing this Thurs/Fri (I wonder how the IAA can turn a "blind eye" to this kind of rostering, so much for safety!)...Expect more closures....:rolleyes:

Finally, Weston's Class C airspace is in fact part of the Dublin CTR, so when Weston closes it reverts back to Dublin's control. The Weston AOR (Area Of Responsibility) cannot be re-classified as Class G without a Safety Case to the IAA, which would make for fantastic reading!

Best of luck...

QDM.

A319er

Welcome to MOL world, fairly normal in aviation now

bombs away

Quebec Delta Mike wrote: »

Finally, Weston's Class C airspace is in fact part of the Dublin CTR, so when Weston closes it reverts back to Dublin's control. The Weston AOR (Area Of Responsibility) cannot be re-classified as Class G without a Safety Case to the IAA, which would make for fantastic reading!

Best of luck...

QDM.

As previously mentioned Weston's Class C airspace has been only a recent development and it operated without air traffic control for over 60 years. With a slight modification and tightening down of procedures I wouldn't see any issue with the airspace reverting to Class G. Dublin ATC have very little dealings with the Weston AOR with the exception of the IFR Traffic inbound and out. And were it to revert, that traffic would disappear solving that issue. Even a provision of AFISO operations could suffice.

Alaba320

The new owners are going to run this place into the ground. Who I feel sorry for the most are the other flight schools and businesses that operate out of Weston. I for one, will not take the chance of signing up to complete a training course with one of the flight schools there due to the uncertainty, even though this is not their fault! So not only is the new owner affecting his own business, but he is going to affect other, very well run, businesses in the process.

I have no doubt that the bigger flight schools down there will survive at another airfield if required, but Abbeyshrule is just to far out for a lot of people.

Meanwhile, I notice that one of the flight schools is advertising an Integrated Course which is due to start soon, I wonder are they being upfront with prospective students on the possibility of them having to relocate.

Suasdaguna1

Sad, sad...feel real sorry for the atco's ...bring back class G but that aint going to happen. Charging 20€ for a full stop landing in a rag and stick plane just drives people away. I genuinely wonder is the start of the end?

http://www.nfc.ie/en/article/2014/04/08/weston-airport-temporary-closed/874

Very worrying

Quebec Delta Mike

bombs away wrote: »

As previously mentioned Weston's Class C airspace has been only a recent development and it operated without air traffic control for over 60 years. With a slight modification and tightening down of procedures I wouldn't see any issue with the airspace reverting to Class G. Dublin ATC have very little dealings with the Weston AOR with the exception of the IFR Traffic inbound and out. And were it to revert, that traffic would disappear solving that issue. Even a provision of AFISO operations could suffice.

Weston's airspace has been Class C since 2006, and with good reason. When the airport was being developed to accommodate light jets etc, it was decided to upgrade the airspace on the grounds of safety, and also the legal necessity of protecting IFR approaches to Weston, and therefore the need for ATC in Class C. The money and effort that was put in to justifying such an upgrade was well spent, as there is now historical evidence as to how much safer activities to and from Weston have become. (This axtra safety will not be easily given up, by reverting to Class G, by Dublin or Baldonnel...the fact that they have little dealings with Weston traffic within it's AOR, is testament to how safe ATC have made it...)
The number of airspace infringements (in to the Dub CTR and Bal R15/16), has dramatically fallen. Any that do occur can be quickly traced and reported.
Having ATC also brings benefits for operators, who can quickly and safely transit to and from Class C with professional guidance. Not to mention the benefit for student pilots of learning their trade in a totally controlled environment...
Lost or disorientated pilots can be safely guided home because of the ATM in the tower (which would not exist without ATC).
IFR traffic are assured of separation from VFR traffic and vica versa, a huge safety benefit to all users, IFR and VFR.

If the owners want to turn back the clock, ditch the executive side of business, revert to Class G (if that was possible, which I doubt), then yes, AFISO's would suffice.

But remember, one just Citation landing, refuelling and parking, makes more money for the airport owner than hundreds of "touch and goes" over many days...it's a no brainer economically...

QDM.

bombs away

Quebec Delta Mike wrote: »

Weston's airspace has been Class C since 2006, and with good reason. When the airport was being developed to accommodate light jets etc, it was decided to upgrade the airspace on the grounds of safety, and also the legal necessity of protecting IFR approaches to Weston, and therefore the need for ATC in Class C. The money and effort that was put in to justifying such an upgrade was well spent, as there is now historical evidence as to how much safer activities to and from Weston have become. (This axtra safety will not be easily given up, by reverting to Class G, by Dublin or Baldonnel...the fact that they have little dealings with Weston traffic within it's AOR, is testament to how safe ATC have made it...)
The number of airspace infringements (in to the Dub CTR and Bal R15/16), has dramatically fallen. Any that do occur can be quickly traced and reported.
Having ATC also brings benefits for operators, who can quickly and safely transit to and from Class C with professional guidance. Not to mention the benefit for student pilots of learning their trade in a totally controlled environment...
Lost or disorientated pilots can be safely guided home because of the ATM in the tower (which would not exist without ATC).
IFR traffic are assured of separation from VFR traffic and vica versa, a huge safety benefit to all users, IFR and VFR.

If the owners want to turn back the clock, ditch the executive side of business, revert to Class G (if that was possible, which I doubt), then yes, AFISO's would suffice.

But remember, one just Citation landing, refuelling and parking, makes more money for the airport owner than hundreds of "touch and goes" over many days...it's a no brainer economically...

QDM.

The owners are making a loss at the moment despite the "Citations landing", in it's present state it's not an economically viable airport and never will be with it's current opening hours for IFR Traffic. It's that which is a no brainer.

As regards airspace infringements, Dublin's CTR is surrounded by class G at which any point your likely to have an incursion. In fact there are much closer points on the approaches to Dublin that aren't even in Weston's AOR, just west of the zone is right on the approach to rwy 10 and is in class G airspace where you aren't even be working Weston tower and would be under no requirement to talk to Dublin either. I would be more worried about having an incursion from these areas and yet we very rarely do because of established procedures.


As I have said with a tightening up of procedures there is no reason why Weston can not be as safe as it currently operates without ATC or possibly with an AFISO service.

Xpro

Alaba320 wrote: »

The new owners are going to run this place into the ground. Who I feel sorry for the most are the other flight schools and businesses that operate out of Weston. I for one, will not take the chance of signing up to complete a training course with one of the flight schools there due to the uncertainty, even though this is not their fault! So not only is the new owner affecting his own business, but he is going to affect other, very well run, businesses in the process.

I have no doubt that the bigger flight schools down there will survive at another airfield if required, but Abbeyshrule is just to far out for a lot of people.

Meanwhile, I notice that one of the flight schools is advertising an Integrated Course which is due to start soon, I wonder are they being upfront with prospective students on the possibility of them having to relocate.

Look, no point in jumping to conclusions, too early for that. It could well be a genuine one off scenario.
Fingers crossed, things will improve. :rolleyes:

N7777G

The exodus of NFC aircraft from Weston is underway this evening.

In the last 20 minutes or so Cessnas EI-DGX, EI-FBC, EI-EMU, EI-CFP, EI-BCK and Beech 76 EI-BUN have all gone to Abbeyshrule.

Matthew Gleeson

Extremely upsetting to see this! Hoping its just a one off but from reading this thread the new Weston owners are having a laugh!

DieselPowered

N7777G wrote: »

The exodus of NFC aircraft from Weston is underway this evening.

In the last 20 minutes or so Cessnas EI-DGX, EI-FBC, EI-EMU, EI-CFP, EI-BCK and Beech 76 EI-BUN have all gone to Abbeyshrule.

Never thought I'd see or hear of the day
Hopfully it will change.
Its a long time rumbling on the horizon.

flyingcowboys

Was looking through the flying ireland threads and came across a post from Weston's new aviation service manager about the airport closing on Thursday and Friday. Can anybody tell me what this position is or what it's responsibilities involve? I did find out the the guy who's position it's is was a former station manager in Shannon who's contract was allowed to expire and was not offered a new contract. One questions as to why it wasn't renewed?? Doesn't fill me with confidence having this person in a position of responsibility, new owners being cheap and scraping the bottom of the barrel again???

Time to throw out some wild theory's here.

With 250 or so acres of prime land situated on the N4 and only 10 mins away from the M50, 1km of frontage, increasing house demand and prices in the dublin area and the owners having a history of building houses ...... Could it be all an elaborate plan to run the place into the ground, tell the council it's not viable as a commercial airport (remember both dublin and Kildare councils view it as pain in the back side) and apply for re-zoning in a couple of years when house prices sky rocket again. Maybe build a public access walk way along the reservoir as a little sweetener.

It's a little far fetched I know but why else would the airport be running staff, visitors and flight schools out of the place if they didn't have other plans for the place??

Any ideas??

L1011

Refurbing the restaurant and buying the ILS gear from Galway (albeit, its not like it's fitted at Weston) wouldn't tie in with that though. May be keeping two sets of options open mind.

flyingcowboys

With regards to the ILS and as discussed on boards, Weston cant get an ILS approach - I dont know the finer details as to why but i'm sure someone can explain it. All I will say is that the fire trucks were purchased along with the ILS from Galway, why aren't they up in Weston replacing the 2 old heaps of junk, the exception being the fire ops 4x4. If you have the money and the time, why not buy the gear on the cheap and flip it at a profit when the opportunity arises??

Scone190

Does anyone have any update on the situation? Will the NFC be moving their aircraft back today ?

Xpro

Scone190 wrote: »

Does anyone have any update on the situation? Will the NFC be moving their aircraft back today ?

Weston is back up and running as normal.

airbusa320

https://www.flickr.com/photos/83304124@N07/13797606863/

The Iolar in Weston this morning

smurfjed

This probably explains why they can't have an ILS, its only 10 miles to Dublin Airport.

Quebec Delta Mike

Sorry, re posted below...

QDM.