The Vietnam War

The Jammy dodger

Hey. Just got a Box set ( 6 Cd's ) of a documentary by HC in HMV today. I watched the first two DVD's so far. I've never known much about the Vietnam war and felt this would educate me. I would have always been on the Americans people side who were for peace and bringing the soldiers home.

After watching the DVD's it seems like the pro-vietnam war guys were trying to say that the anti-war ( or peace movement ) going on in the states was destructive to them winning the war. Would you agree?

Ho Chi Minh was a communist leader. And no... communism is not good in any part of the world. So do you think their was just reason to bring Ho Chi Minh down? or do you think the whole Vietnam war was a farce and that the peace movement in America were right in their stance to bring the American troops home?

LumpyGravy

Are you for real?

sunflower27

I remember studying this in depth in High School. There was a lot of anti-US sentiment.

It has often been said the reason the US lost the war is because they weren't wanted there.

It is a tragic but fascinating part of history. To think America with all their might could be effectively run out of a small country like Vietnam.

My father fought in Vietnam when he was 19/20.

Pottler

The Vietnamese are warm and hospitable people with a very nice nature. America loves being at war with someone. Go figure.

Immaculate Pasta

Aye it was a cracking war alright :cool:

A lot of good music came out of it, Apocalypse Now was a good film, some of the VietCong traps were top.

One of the better wars definitely.

Larianne

The war museum in Ho Chi Minh City was amazing. Very, very sad and you come out hating America. I'd recommend anyone going to Vietnam to go there.

I didn't know anything about Agent Orange. Actually, must do some more reading about it.

SafeSurfer

The Americans lost the war for hearts and minds both in Vietnam and at home.

However you feel about the war the achievement of the Vietnamese people is really quite incredible both against the French, Americans and Chinese.

eth0

Fecking Communist bastards.

They should have given up on Vietnam and taken over China instead

gurramok

Jayzus OP, grab yourself a History book. The Vietnamese wanted all foreign rulers out of their country be they French or American. Just so happens the freedom fighters at the time were communist.
A few million Vietnamese died due to the war, alot by American random bombings. About 60,000 Amercians died, a miniscule number when you think about all the media attention they attained.

flutterflye

I watched 'The Deer Hunter' earlier, and now I'm watching 'Apocalypse Now' - both for the first time.
Oh my god - zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.........
There are both so boring.
That's probably not relevant, but I'm not quite sure how to answer whether I believe it to be "a good war" or not!

MrStuffins

What?

YOU WEREN'T THERE MAAAAAN!!!!!!!

mikemac1

Nobody cared while the poor and unemployed Americans who could not get exemptions were sent to fight in the early years
Of course there were professional servicemen[and women] already but draftees were needed too


But as soon as they targeted middle class people and who planned to go to college the whole anti-war movement took off

That movement was less about the war/peace and more about the self interest in not getting drafted

SafeSurfer

flutterflye wrote: »

I watched 'The Deer Hunter' earlier, and now I'm watching 'Apocalypse Now' - both for the first time.
Oh my god - zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.........
There are both so boring.
That's probably not relevant, but I'm not quite sure how to answer whether I believe it to be "a good war" or not!

Jesus wept.

ChunkyLover_53

"you smell that?"
"smell what?"
"trollin, son. Nothing in the world smells like that. I love the smell of trolling in after hours"

Lumbo

There's lots of museums in Vietnam where they'll show you various ways how to kill Americans.

They enjoyed beating the Yanks.

flutterflye

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Jesus wept.

Didn't expect it to be a popular opinion!!!
I'm sticking with it though - both rubbish films.

Re op - It just makes me think even less of the Americans tbh.

Where To

Where's the 'blame the French' option OP?


So much you have to learn

Pottler

If you want to know a bit about it, read about or visit the tunnels at Cu-Chi. Mind-blowing. I have an awful lot of admiration for the Vietnamese people, but really, they were beaten at the point that America withdrew due to public and political pressure-bombed, poisoned and blasted to the point of submission. Awful suffering inflicted on both sides but if you go there, there is no bitterness towards the west and the people are fantastic.

The Jammy dodger

MrStuffins wrote: »

What?

YOU WEREN'T THERE MAAAAAN!!!!!!!

NEVER SAID I WAS MAAANNNN!!!!!! :pac::D

wallpaper12

sunflower27 wrote: »

It is a tragic but fascinating part of history. To think America with all their might could be effectively run out of a small country like Vietnam.

.

A small country like Vietnam??? You clearly have never been there, its massive!

One of the most fascinating things I have ever seen was in the war museum in Ho Chi Minh, it was a bunch of medals a GI had won during the war.
He had sent them back to Vietnam with a note stating 'Sorry Vietnam, I was wrong'

sunflower27

I love the Deer Hunter. OK, the wedding scene at the start is waaaaaay too long, but a fantastic film regardless. Love it.

I just can't get enough of De Niro Phwoar!

Johro

Turn it up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLpFMDmBo9s

Ah, while I'm here...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyqNyjuTCuA

The_Thing

A most excellent read for anyone who is interested - Marine Sniper: 93 Confirmed Kills

The Jammy dodger

ChunkyLover_53 wrote: »

"you smell that?"
"smell what?"
"trollin, son. Nothing in the world smells like that. I love the smell of trolling in after hours"

What makes you think I'm'a' Trollin son?

Corkfeen

Interesting fact. There was little to no prostitution industry in Vietnam until the Americans entered....

But no, It was not a justified war to answer your question.

The Jammy dodger

mikemac1 wrote: »

Nobody cared while the poor and unemployed Americans who could not get exemptions were sent to fight in the early years
Of course there were professional servicemen[and women] already but draftees were needed too


But as soon as they targeted middle class people and who planned to go to college the whole anti-war movement took off

That movement was less about the war/peace and more about the self interest in not getting drafted

Your post reminded me of one of my favourite bands from that era

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ScisGFllPY

sunflower27

wallpaper12 wrote: »

A small country like Vietnam??? You clearly have never been there, its massive!

One of the most fascinating things I have ever seen was in the war museum in Ho Chi Minh, it was a bunch of medals a GI had won during the war.
He had sent them back to Vietnam with a note stating 'Sorry Vietnam, I was wrong'

Sorry, I mean in terms of the size and might of America.

Would love to see the museum there.

My father never drank - ever. I remember him saying so many young men that went to war with him came back and drank themselves to death.

prinz

The Jammy dodger wrote: »

or do you think the whole Vietnam war was a farce

It was. Nobody came out of it well. The US got itself involved in a civil conflict between clearly corrupt twats on one side in South Vietnam, and dirtbag communists in the North. Vietnam became the boxing ring for the US and various others (many neighbouring countries in the region) and communist prats USSR, China etc... and the biggest losers were the average Vietnamese on all sides.

Canis Lupus

flutterflye wrote: »

I watched 'The Deer Hunter' earlier, and now I'm watching 'Apocalypse Now' - both for the first time.
Oh my god - zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.........
There are both so boring.
That's probably not relevant, but I'm not quite sure how to answer whether I believe it to be "a good war" or not!

Apoc Now... I was told it was the greatest Vietnam War movie ever made.... It's such a load of absolute bollix.

flutterflye

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Apoc Now... I was told it was the greatest Vietnam War movie ever made.... It's such a load of absolute bollix.

The whole film is basically them sailing down a river!!

SafeSurfer

flutterflye wrote: »

Didn't expect it to be a popular opinion!!!
I'm sticking with it though - both rubbish films.

Re op - It just makes me think even less of the Americans tbh.

Your opinion is just as valid as anyone else's even if it is stupid and wrong.

Just as a matter of interest have you found any films on the Vietnam war that you did like, or any general films that you have enjoyed?

recyclops

If ya like reading bout Vietnam you can't get a better book than this a fantastic read

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/0091910110

The Jammy dodger

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Your opinion is just as valid as anyone else's even if it is stupid and wrong.

Just as a matter of interest have you found any films on the Vietnam war that you did like, or any general films that you have enjoyed?

I dont think films really give us insight to the Vietnam war. I think documentaries and testimonies from both sides do... even though documentaries are known to have their flaws in them, they are a far sight better than the films.

Corkfeen

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Apoc Now... I was told it was the greatest Vietnam War movie ever made.... It's such a load of absolute bollix.

It is... Perhaps you've seen the Redux version which isn't half as good as the theatrical version.

Zebra3

Lumbo wrote: »

There's lots of museums in Vietnam where they'll show you various ways how to kill Americans.

They enjoyed beating the Yanks.

What a terrible phrase.

They paid a huge price for their independence from America.

Tbh, they still are due to the Americans use of chemical weapons.

prinz

The Jammy dodger wrote: »

I dont think films really give us insight to the Vietnam war. I think documentaries and testimonies from both sides do... even though documentaries are known to have their flaws in them, they are a far sight better than the films.

Just keep in mind that the war in Vietnam continued long after the USA stopped it's military involvement and withdrew all American forces. The Vietnamese kept killing each other for a couple more years.

prinz

Zebra3 wrote: »

They paid a huge price for their independence from America.

Ya what?

Latchy

Recently released documentry on the Vietnam war with some personal and never before seen footage ,which was also shown on Sky documentrys last week .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPh1_BH5LXE

gurramok

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Just as a matter of interest have you found any films on the Vietnam war that you did like, or any general films that you have enjoyed?

Platoon was an eyeopener in the sense Charlie Sheen's character blasted the racists within his squad by saying about the Vietnamese woman "she's a fcukin human being man!".

Still, the soldiers who massacred 347 civilians at My Lai got away with murder. Sums up their attitude to the Vietnamese people at the time just because they are different.

Larianne

Zebra3 wrote: »

What a terrible phrase.

They paid a huge price for their independence from America.

Tbh, they still are due to the Americans use of chemical weapons.

And land mines.

Deus Ex Machina

Was Vietnam a cool war? Definitely.

Was it morally justified? I don't care and can you please fuck off.

dlofnep

3 words - My Lai Massacre. No - The US can't just randomly overthrow Governments when it pleases.

flutterflye

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Your opinion is just as valid as anyone else's even if it is stupid and wrong.

Just as a matter of interest have you found any films on the Vietnam war that you did like, or any general films that you have enjoyed?

Aw thanks!
Many in general, none so far on the Nam war actually, no.
I don't tend to like war films for the most part at all.

sunflower27

gurramok wrote: »

Platoon was an eyeopener in the sense Charlie Sheen's character blasted the racists within his squad by saying about the Vietnamese woman "she's a fcukin human being man!".

Still, the soldiers who massacred 347 civilians at My Lai got away with murder. Sums up their attitude to the Vietnamese people at the time just because they are different.

Definitely. My Lai was a huge turning point for many. I remember reading about it. Sickening. Is it any wonder the people of Vietnam were not prepared to help the US and in fact actively set about fighting with the Viet Cong to get rid of them.

SafeSurfer

dlofnep wrote: »

3 words - My Lai Massacre. No - The US can't just randomly overthrow Governments when it pleases.

Well the US can overthrow governments when it pleases. Most recently Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya.

The Vietnam war was not about the overthrow of a government more about propping up the corrupt pro western South Vietnam regime.

Pride Fighter

If they run they are VC.

If they stand still, they are well trained VC.

Pedant

Better dead than Red.

A good Red is a dead Red.

gurramok

And the US military war was largely based on body counts, the kill count in the hope that the enemy would lose hope and morale due to heavy losses. Most US victories in various battles were due to air firepower rather than ground combat, thats where the heavy loss of Viet life was, a tad unfair indeed. If the Vietnamese were about to overrun a military base due to hand on hand combat won fairly, the US sent in the airplanes to bomb them, sort of a cowardly way to win a battle.

The film Battle of Hamburger Hill(and documentary) shows the US strategy whereby it wasn't about holding rural territory but kill as many on that territory.

Latchy

If I was going to ask any Vietnam war novice to watch a film on the subject I would choose '' Path To War '' which gives a great insight into the thinking behind closed doors in the Johnson Administration at the time throughout the Vietnam War period, which saw the escalation of troops rise from a few hundred thousend to over a million ,with some fine acting by Michael Gambon as Johnson and Alec Baldwin as secretary of state Robert McNamara .

Path To War

Canis Lupus

gurramok wrote: »

And the US military war was largely based on body counts, the kill count in the hope that the enemy would lose hope and morale due to heavy losses. Most US victories in various battles were due to air firepower rather than ground combat, thats where the heavy loss of Viet life was, a tad unfair indeed. If the Vietnamese were about to overrun a military base due to hand on hand combat won fairly, the US sent in the airplanes to bomb them, sort of a cowardly way to win a battle.

The film Battle of Hamburger Hill(and documentary) shows the US strategy whereby it wasn't about holding rural territory but kill as many on that territory.

lol... the US were cheating with superior air power?

Stinicker

It was a horrible war that the Vietnamese deserved to win and I don't care if they were Communists no foreign country has the right to dictate to another country and looking at what has become of Europe and the West today I think history will judge the fall of the Berlin Wall as a day in Human History when corrupt thugs took control. The ordinary yank is just as hard working as the Irish but it is what their government allows and their corporate greed and hegemony which is destroying the world and the world economy.

The Russians should have started WWIII and they'd have won it too. This society of billions for the fraudsters and the masses in poverty is not fair and we are living in a "kudos or kang" democracy where there is an illusion of freedom when in fact we are all slaves to the corrupt financial system.