Public parenting

RaRaRasputin

I fail to see the relevance of the speech and language issue in relation to bad behaviour. You mentioned yourself that the man in question was Italian and gestured clearly that he did not want to be shot/play with a random child.

Your heartwarming Lanzarote story also has no relevance to the issue being discussed here. It merely highlights the fact that you have a different attitude towards parenting than many others here. Most people would not find the behaviour of that man and his child acceptable. Overall your story just tries to deviate attention from your own parenting skills to others who seem to have an even "more relaxed" attitude.

cynder

RaRaRasputin wrote: »

I fail to see the relevance of the speech and language issue in relation to bad behaviour. You mentioned yourself that the man in question was Italian and gestured clearly that he did not want to be shot/play with a random child.

Your heartwarming Lanzarote story also has no relevance to the issue being discussed here. It merely highlights the fact that you have a different attitude towards parenting than many others here. Most people would not find the behaviour of that man and his child acceptable. Overall your story just tries to deviate attention from your own parenting skills to others who seem to have an even "more relaxed" attitude.

Well since he wouldn't even understand the sentence ' pick that up ' at 2 its very relevant. he didn't even know his own name till he was 2. His come on a bit now but still his comprehension is not that if a 5 year old.

I am relaxed, due to being beaten as a child, let kids be kids.. Gone are the days if a child should be seen and not heard...

Is not as if my kids are going to be criminals, they will be decent law abiding citizens, I'm letting them enjoy their child hood, oh and the guy was German not Italian. If your sitting next in a pool one should expect to get wet. If he didn't want to have kids playing in the pool he should have gone to one if the 5 adult pool, not the heated kids pool.

branbee

There is a huge difference between letting a kid be a kid and letting them misbehave. Children can still have fun while being disciplined and knowing their boundaries. Its actually important that they do. Part of being a child is learning to be well behaved and play properly and fairly.

RaRaRasputin

Don't get me wrong, this guy shouldn't have grabbed your kid and shaken him, but you also need to understand that you can't expect other people to respect your child's special needs. If he has such difficulties with learning/understanding you should just keep a closer eye on him. It's really about tolerating others as much as you want them to tolerate you and your kids.

JupiterKid

RaRaRasputin wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, this guy shouldn't have grabbed your kid and shaken him, but you also need to understand that you can't expect other people to respect your child's special needs. If he has such difficulties with learning/understanding you should just keep a closer eye on him. It's really about tolerating others as much as you want them to tolerate you and your kids.

Hear hear.:) Parents need to take responsibility of their children, allowing them to have fun and enjoy themselves but within boundaries that are set by the parents. Too many children are being allowed to run about and disrupt other people which is plain bad behaviour.

What is wrong with setting firm boundaries for your children or must they "express themselves" to the cost of everyone around them?:rolleyes:

DeeRottie

Geez it's clear some of you here were never kids and always knew how to behave appropriately. I'm sure spraying someone with a water pistol would NEVER have entered your minds at that age. I'm sure you never threw a sneaky snowball at somebody. FFS!

Different story if the kid had gone up f-ing and blinding at the man, that would be a sign of bad parenting, but this was just a little bit of fun and was not intended as an act of harm.

For the record, that man should not have laid hands on the child and should have been reported. But can you imagine if a teacher did that to a child? For the record, I have suffered the results of bad parenting - chairs thrown at me, told to "take this exam and shove it up you f-ing h**e" - and taken it. Got sick of dealing with brazen, entitled teens after a few years and left though. Ok off topic so I'll end the rant here

Zebra3

The only thing worse than seeing kids run amok in public and their parent(s) not give a toss, is seeing a parent hit their kid in public.

Way to humiliate a child. :rolleyes:

DeeRottie

They should install a naughty step in every supermarket, that'll show em the way

Blush_01

DeeRottie wrote: »

Geez it's clear some of you here were never kids and always knew how to behave appropriately. I'm sure spraying someone with a water pistol would NEVER have entered your minds at that age. I'm sure you never threw a sneaky snowball at somebody. FFS!

Different story if the kid had gone up f-ing and blinding at the man, that would be a sign of bad parenting, but this was just a little bit of fun and was not intended as an act of harm.

For the record, that man should not have laid hands on the child and should have been reported. But can you imagine if a teacher did that to a child? For the record, I have suffered the results of bad parenting - chairs thrown at me, told to "take this exam and shove it up you f-ing h**e" - and taken it. Got sick of dealing with brazen, entitled teens after a few years and left though. Ok off topic so I'll end the rant here

I'm sorry, but that's a pile of crap.

The man clearly indicated in a non-linguistic manner that he did not want to engage with the child. Grindlewald acknowledged as much in her first post.

A 5 year old can be forgiven for making a mistake, but a parent, on seeing a stranger indicate that they did not want to play, should have advised their child to behave in a manner that didn't put them at risk of being punished for acting in the manner that they had been warned not to behave in by that same stranger.

A laissez-faire parenting attitude is not the fault or problem of the public, but it is to the detriment of the children. It's unfair to expect children to understand what is acceptable and unacceptable in a social context if they're never taught what's appropriate or how to read clear social clues.

I'm all for children having the freedom to explore their environment, but this should be in a controlled way that doesn't put them at excessive risk. I don't have children but I do spend a lot of time with small children. And as an uneducated observer (as I'm sure many parents will be happy to point out) children will definitely push boundaries, but they appreciate knowing where accepted lines are.

The behavior of many parents today is ridiculous. It's not fair to blame children for the failings of those responsible for their wellbeing.

Mountainsandh

It's not just about setting boundaries and disciplining either, it's about role modelling too.
The kids are simply re-enacting in their own manner the attitude their parents have, for example, lack of respect for others, or an exacerbated sense of entitlement. After seeing Mammy nick someone else's parking space in the car park, or exhale her smoke all over the little old lady at the bus stop just because she (Mammy)'s entitled to smoke there, why should little Johnny or Rebecca behave any different ?

cynder

RaRaRasputin wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, this guy shouldn't have grabbed your kid and shaken him, but you also need to understand that you can't expect other people to respect your child's special needs. If he has such difficulties with learning/understanding you should just keep a closer eye on him. It's really about tolerating others as much as you want them to tolerate you and your kids.

We were watching him, it's not like he was in a different pool where we couldn't see him. He shot the man the man waved no. He didn't shoot him again. He shot the watergun but not at the man and it shot it up and hit no one, then the man attacked him, waterguns were allowed in the pool, he only did wrong once and never shot the man again. Why should I tell my child off when he never hit the man again. The man indicated he didn't want to be hit so ky son did not hit him again.

The man clearly wanted no guns in the pool, but tough s&&t they are allowed. Besides our family the only person he shot was that man in our 7 days there. We always keep an eye in the little guy as his most likely to wander off, he was never out of our sight.

And buy the way this incident from the man getting shot and my son spraying the gun in the air was less than 2 seconds so unless I have bionic legs I would not have reached him in time, which I didn't.

Truley

Precious flower wrote: »

Child running around a store/doctors office/restaurant whatever and bouncing off the walls:
Mother * completely non-strict tone*: Jimmy sit down here and stop that.
Mother: Jimmy if you don't stop that I'll take 'x' away from you.
Child ignores parent because he is clearly well use to whatever empty threats his mother comes out with.
Mother then stops calling the child and lets them do what they want until they demand something else.
Mother: No Jimmy you can't have a drink. No Jimmy.
Again no really serious tone of voice, child takes drink and has a much as they want. Child returns to bothering everyone else.

You should only have to tell your child ONCE in an authoritative tone, no messing and they get the message (at least for five ten minutes anyway until they go on to do something else) but at least they know they can't do that. It's the children that are told no a thousand times in a bored voice that end up on Supernanny and shows like that. If you don't let your child know whose boss from day one you're in trouble or else you shouldn't have children!:p

This reminds me so much of my cousin's child who gets incredibly worked up when visiting people's houses. She gets confused about boundaries and what's appropriate behaviour because she was never properly taught what to do. It always starts the same, the child goes hyper and runs riot annoying everyone and saying really inappropriate things, the mother either says nothing or embarrassedly goes along with it (the worst thing to do!), then gradually she stops pretending it's funny and gets more and more annoyed until it gets really out of control and ends with the child getting a smack and roared at for misbehaving and embarrassing herself. Tears, because the child is confused from the mixed messages she's been getting. Then it happens all over again the next time. The pair of them are a nightmare tbh.

Like other posters say children need to be shown clear boundaries from the start and continually reminded what to do because they do get confused by mixed messages constantly thrown at them. For example it might be OK to make fart jokes when your over in your mates house but we don't do it in great aunt Maureen's. Or we might get up and walk about at home but in the restaurant we stay sitting etc. The child should be gently reminded, every time, before entering the situation eg the house or the café; that way the rules are clear in their heads and problems like this are avoided.

THENORTHSIDER

Sappa wrote: »

Does it bother you when your in a supermarket and there are toddlers running around unattended pulling things of shelves or screaming without being corrected.
I was in the gym earlier and a couple had there young 6-7 yr old in the jacuzzi while the 2 younger ones were bomb diving in the pool creating havoc for the other parents with kids.
The lifeguard is only a teen and didn't have a clue what to do even though the signs say bo kids in the jacuzzi.
More and more these days I see parents with a handful of kids happily leaving them in public areas and running wild,anyone else experience this or is it a rare thing.
Are some parents so lazy they expect the public to do there jobs for them.

have a son on the autistic spectrum who at times can appear disruptive in some peoples eyes. U never know whats happening for people and try not to be too judgemental about others.

saa

And since when did the eric cartman style parenting Ah ah ah no no Timothy we don't hit people mkay?? become such an epidemic
followed with "if you do that one more time mummys going to be angry.. *does it again* "now I warned you, thats very bold- said as if they are afraid to upset the child then mother does nothing

and then there is the other extreme mother actually gets angry loses control without properly punishing the child they just smacked/shouted at them because they felt like it not for the childs benefit, the "stop ANNOYING ME" style parenting, the mother is trying to block out the childs existence until its badgering becomes too much and she is forced to give it the attention and nurturing interaction its craving

flutterflye

THENORTHSIDER wrote: »

have a son on the autistic spectrum who at times can appear disruptive in some peoples eyes. U never know whats happening for people and try not to be too judgemental about others.

Me too.
He also has adhd.
But the problem that the op is having is that the children go uncorrected.
I usually try and go shopping without him, but if I must bring him, I will watch him like a hawk, and will obviously correct him if he does anything like bump into people or try to run off etc...

RachaelVO

Sappa wrote: »

They seem to be forgiven for leaving 3 toddlers unattended in a rented holiday apartment complex in a foreign country.
All the attention the mccanns get over missing Madeline but the root cause of the problem was the parents,it is there own fault.
If they were charged and served a sentence for this negligence it would be a wake up call to other careless parents to look after your little ones at all times and it's not ok to leave them by themselves.

Well I think that's a bit strong, they didn't abduct their own child, so the abductor is really responsible. Mind you having said that, why would you leave your children in an apartment when you ate dinner down the road. Not a fecking chance would I do that! I'd be getting a take away, or summit in the local supermarket, as we ALWAYS do when we take the kids away.

Over easter we were in a recreation park in Belgium, and they had a family thing on til about 8, we were there the ENTIRE time, right where we could keep an eye on the kids (5&3). We did have a drink, but we had no intention of sitting up at the bar not keeping an eye on them.

Back OT, Thankfully most of the time our kids are street angels house devils. They rarely (although it does happen, and I'm usually mortified) behave badly outside the house, at home they're a pair of little shites!

Corvo

There are certain places where kids should be allowed run amok, and a pub isnt one of them.

Take your ugly children (usually some freckled ginger little bastard) home and leave me enjoy my pint.

<grumbles like an old man>

:mad:


EDIT: Actually, all gingers should be kept at home until 1) They grow into a flame haired, large breasted, pale beauty at which stage they can be released or 2) They dye their hair

THENORTHSIDER

flutterflye wrote: »

Me too.
He also has adhd.
But the problem that the op is having is that the children go uncorrected.
I usually try and go shopping without him, but if I must bring him, I will watch him like a hawk, and will obviously correct him if he does anything like bump into people or try to run off etc...

How does the OP know that parents don't try and correct their children. I bring my son with me and generally try to be as strict as possible but it doesn't always work out as I would like. The point I'm trying to make is don't be too judgemental as you never know whats going on in anyones life at any particular time. if we all could control situations like others would wish the world would be a wonderful place but unfortunately life doesn't work that way.

looksee

What a lot of parents don't realise is that discipline (in the mildest form of the word) does not start when you go to the supermarket, or at age 5 or 7 or whatever. It starts right from toddler stage.

It does not have to involve any form of physical chastisement, nagging, shouting or general attitude of repression.

If you approach a small child with the attitude of s/he is totally loved and give them security you are halfway there. A consistent approach, and behaving as though you are in no doubt that you are in charge is reassuring to a child.

When my own children were growing up I saw many mothers who thought they were doing the right thing by never correcting a child under about 7, 'ah bless them, they will grow up soon enough' and then wondered why they had 10 year olds who did what they wanted.

One mother who would call in to me with her two small sons was amazed that I actually had house plants and books etc on low level shelves. It wasn't an issue with my kids, no nagging, no banning the children from the room, it just didn't occur to them to destroy stuff. They were not angels by any means, but they were just taught to have respect for other people and other people's property.

I do think though, that while I did prefer to rear my children to respect others, it might have put them at a bit of a disadvantage as they are growing up, as other kids who are used to the idea that they can do as they wish tend to assume they can walk all over them. This is often what shows as bullying. It is a very fine line to walk, to find the balance. Having got through school my kids have got on very well in life, but school was not always easy. It is a perennial problem though, and nothing new.

Galwayguy35

I'm not too bothered about kids running and shouting in shops as it's a big area and all I have to do is move to another aisle and it's up to the parents to pick up the stuff they knock off the shelves.
What does annoy me is when people are in my house and let their kids throw things around the place, pull everything out of the presses and wander all over the house without saying a word to them.
I've a low tolerance to noisy kids at the best of times but this drives me nuts.

Dudess

Sappa wrote: »

Some people make excuses I just took my eye of them for a second,they are so quick etc.
These are excuses that is all,if you have young kids it is your job to bodyguard and chaperone them whenever out in public places.
Wasn't it a lack of parental attention that lead to the McCann kid disappearing.

Oh how many children do you have in order to have such expertise and insight into what's an excuse and what's a valid reason?
I'm thinking you don't have any.
And before the usual yells of "You don't have to be a parent" etc, in relation to this particular issue, yes you do. Some parents don't make an effort to control their kids (very few from what I've observed tbh though) but most of the time the kid gets cranky which can't be helped - if the experts have tips on how to prevent a two-year-old getting narky, do tell.
Child-haters are part of the reason for industrial schools btw.

And re the McCann case: yeah they were idiots for not having a person in the apartment to supervise the children, but that was an extreme situation - you can't honestly compare that to the parenting of a kid acting up in a public place.
Intriguing too how your suspicion that they're responsible for her disappearance means it's a fact...

nlgbbbblth

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Children should be seen and not heard. I know if I caused a ruckus in public when I was young I would have been chastised and beaten, and rightly so.

BRING DA MOTHERF*CKIN' RUCKUS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbfGkiecl2M

stovelid

grindelwald wrote: »

Bomb diving into a pool is fun, for adults and kids. Pity more places should allow jumping into a pool.

I was in Italy with my 3 ages 12, 6 and 5. The 5 year old has a speech n language disorder, he was playing with his water gun and took a liking to one man sitting with his legs in the pool, he shot him with it the man waved his hand to say no, my little man fired the gun in the air. It went no where near the man he went over and grabbed my son by both wrists and shook him hard for about 5 seconds, he then grabbed the water gun off him. We were in the kids pool not the adult pool. Which there were 5 off.


Now we did tell him not to shoot people, and the fright that man gave him he will never shoot anyone again, we had to leave the pool he was shaking in terror. There was no need for aggressive behavior. The man didn't speak English, I felt like reporting him to the cops for assault.

I bet the water gun did hit him.

cynder

No it didn't, the water landed at least 2 meters from him.

My kids are generally good kids, they have their moments as do us adults, people should realize there is no such thing as a perfect child, a perfect parent and for that matter a perfect adult.