Be careful... This is a man....

sea_monkey

matt-dublin wrote: »

just trust issues? you wouldnt be freaked out and annoyed by the fact that you just emptied your nutsack to a man who's had his p3nis surgically tucked in?

i've no personal issues with it, i thought it was an interesting article, i also thought it would stir an interesting debate on the topic, which it has.

why would you be freaked out or annoyed?
if something gave you sexual gratification then so be it, accept it and, hell, enjoy it. thats what its made for.

CreepingDeath

Beruthiel wrote: »

Also, teaching them bigotry is a sad reflection on you as a would be parent.

So when should we start teaching kids about transsexuals then ?
How would that go ?

Shows a child a crayon picture of a man... "Now, this is a man".
Shows a child a crayon picture of a woman... "And this is a woman".
Woman can have babies, but men can't.
Got that ?

Okay, now some men think they're women and make themselves look like women, but they can't have babies.
And some women think they're men, and make themselves look like men, and they may or may not be able to have babies after that.

So I'm glad we cleared that up.... :rolleyes:

krudler

I'm not an idiot, I know that it's between 2 consenting adults. But I do disagree that it doesn't affect others because I think it does. Why is there such glamorization of homosexuality and transgender in the media? Don't try and tell me that doesn't affect young impressionable people because it does. Not all the time, don't get me wrong, but it happens. Like ultra thing models being "rolemodels" and girls going away starving themselves.

Its not glamorization, its people accepting that being gay isnt wrong, more gay people in the media or public life is a good thing. are you seriously saying that young men or women seeing a gay person on tv will....turn gay? you're only contradicting yourself now saying being gay is a psychological condition and then saying you can turn someone gay, can't be both.

KamiKazeKitten

pickarooney wrote: »

The only 'argument' you lot have made is that paedophilia can't be compared to anything because you simply don't want to respond to the question of whether someone can be born with something and sill be 'wrong'.

Been responded to.
Someone can't be born with something and be "wrong".

If someone acts on paedophilic urges, that is wrong as children are involved. So it can't compare to being gay or trans as the people involved are consenting adults.
Quite a simple concept really.

Biggins

matt-dublin wrote: »

just trust issues? you wouldnt be freaked out and annoyed by the fact that you just emptied your nutsack to a man who's had his p3nis surgically tucked in?

i've no personal issues with it, i thought it was an interesting article, i also thought it would stir an interesting debate on the topic, which it has.

I might be a lot of things - that that wouldn't take away from their situation and/or mean I should in the cold light of day, not remember that they are indeed suffering or have suffered from a situation that was not easy for them to say the least.

Exposing their situation on line and/or in any other way which might be seen as a 'put down' (intentional or not), would not be the right things to do frankly.

I DO think you meant it (your title) in jest - and NOT to be mean as such.
Sadly, such is the world, there will be fools out there that prey upon such things and see them as poetic licence to further run with and in their cruelty, use, abuse and twist to sneer those of this situation.

Azure_sky

Over simplification and gutter journalism at its finest. Yeah, have a pop at the one of the most vulnerable and misunderstood groups in society to sell a few rags. I'm a "trap","Tranny" " Shemale". For those of ye who seek scientific truth here's some good reading.



http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/85/5/2034.full

Honestly, you guys have no idea how worthless society makes you feel for being transsexual. Give us a break. Also, I don't pretend to anyone that I'm a naturally born woman. I tell people my situation. We're not gays in disguise trying to seduce straight men. Many of us are a-sexual or date other trans people. Sexual orientation has nothing to do with it, for me at least. Hopefully, some people will understand what I'm trying to convey.

prinz

KamiKazeKitten wrote: »

Glamourisation in the media? Er, what?

Have to agree with Kev on this one. Include a gay character in a movie/popular soap opera etc and it's guaranteed they will be well rounded individuals, extremely emotionally intelligent, loyal, good listeners, brilliant best friend material, mature, always willing to help etc etc.

This point was first raised to me by a gay housemate who himself was getting tired of a very stereotypical picture emerging of what it was to be gay. There was an attempt to over-compensate the prior lack of gay characters etc to including them, but they had to be perfect people.

pickarooney

KamiKazeKitten wrote: »

Been responded to.
Someone can't be born with something and be "wrong".

If someone acts on paedophilic urges, that is wrong as children are involved. So it can't compare to being gay or trans as the people involved are consenting adults.
Quite a simple concept really.

So what do you say when your 13-year old son tells you he's sexually attracted to a) his male teacher or b) the six year old next door?

If it's a simple concept you shouldn't have to think too long before giving him an appropriate response.

Have to agree with Kev on this one. Include a gay character in a movie/popular soap opera etc and it's guaranteed they will be well rounded individuals, extremely emotionally intelligent, loyal, good listeners, brilliant best friend material, mature, always willing to help etc etc.

Gustavo Fring is gay, is he not?

krudler

prinz wrote: »

Have to agree with Kev on this one. Include a gay character in a movie/popular soap opera etc and it's guaranteed they will be well rounded individuals, extremely emotionally intelligent, loyal, good listeners, brilliant best friend material, mature, always willing to help etc etc.

This point was first raised to me by a gay housemate who himself was getting tired of a very stereotypical picture emerging of what it was to be gay. There was an attempt to over-compensate the prior lack of gay characters etc to including them, but they had to be perfect people.

Queer as Folk, The L Word, Will and Grace? To name a few gay-centric shows that disprove this, yes gay people can be assholes just like straight people

Kev_2012

KamiKazeKitten wrote: »

Doesn't answer the question though. Why not?

Glamourisation in the media? Er, what?

Show me where the media are trying to turn us all gay please.

Fair enough.

Because it's not always true for all.

Strangely I agree with you here, although not the phrasing you're using....many people aren't comfortable with the idea of transgenders and I think it's only fair that they are told.

Because I wouldn't like my child to cause problems amongst their circle of closest people that would affect themselves and also their own lives in an irreparable way.

See below about glamorization.

Cool thanks for the agreement. Yeah I'm not the best at phrasing things (as you can probably tell!), but ya I'd like to know in advance that I am about to try pull a woman born a woman on a night out!

krudler wrote: »

Its not glamorization, its people accepting that being gay isnt wrong, more gay people in the media or public life is a good thing. are you seriously saying that young men or women seeing a gay person on tv will....turn gay? you're only contradicting yourself now saying being gay is a psychological condition and then saying you can turn someone gay, can't be both.

Take your man Louis Spence on telly. Anything he is on, he basically go OTT with showing that he is gay, wow we get it, you are gay, stop going on about it. It so put-on it's ridiculous. Although he is straight David Walliams is at it too and I don't see the need for it. Graham Norton and Neil Patrick Harris don't act camp, or shove their sexuality down your throat (no pun intended!). They are gay and I happily watch shows that their on without getting pissed off. Why can't gay people be more like them?

Kev_2012 wrote: »

Obviously it is wrong, but I find it difficult to differentiate being gay or transgender with a paedophile if they are all supposed to be all psychological conditions that people are supposedly born with.

I said supposedly, because I am not convinced that it's solely a psychological trait. I have seen a lot of people as I grew up experiment (I didnt watch them in the act before someone says it !!) with people of the same sex and then as they got older, went with people of the opposite sex. They grew out of it.

I DO however, think that some people are born that way, but only a very small percentage of gay people.

Chamone MF

no ovaries, no menstrual cycle, no functioning mammary glands, big hands, born with testes.
its a guy.

prinz

Kev_2012 wrote: »

Take your man Louis Spence on telly. Anything he is on, he basically go OTT with showing that he is gay, wow we get it, you are gay, stop going on about it. It so put-on it's ridiculous. Although he is straight David Walliams is at it too and I don't see the need for it. Graham Norton and Neil Patrick Harris don't act camp, or shove their sexuality down your throat (no pun intended!). They are gay and I happily watch shows that their on without getting pissed off. Why can't gay people be more like them?

Simon Amstell versus Alan Carr.

Kev_2012

prinz wrote: »

Simon Amstell versus Alan Carr.

Exactly! I didn't know Simon Amstell was gay for years! Why aren't all gay people that subtle I just don't understand the need for the campness...

CreepingDeath

krudler wrote: »

Queer as Folk, The L Word, Will and Grace? To name a few gay-centric shows that disprove this, yes gay people can be assholes just like straight people

The gay community tend to have bigger assholes.

Kooli

Kev_2012 wrote: »

Exactly! I didn't know Simon Amstell was gay for years! Why aren't all gay people that subtle I just don't understand the need for the campness...

Why on earth should they follow your rules??

Some gay men are camp some aren't. (same as some straight men can be camp)

Some straight men are so macho and sleazy it annoys me, but that's my personal preference, I don't start hating on all straight men for it!

It's really none of your business how gay people choose to live their life.

twinQuins

Kev_2012 wrote: »

Exactly! I didn't know Simon Amstell was gay for years! Why aren't all gay people that subtle I just don't understand the need for the campness...

Why does it matter to you how people act? It's more than a little hypocritical of you to whinge about the "PC brigade" and then come out with this - implying people should be acting a certain way.

**** sake, AH gets worse by the hour. Either that or I'm being trolled old style.

DubArk

Kev_2012 wrote: »

Take your man Louis Spence on telly. Anything he is on, he basically go OTT with showing that he is gay, wow we get it, you are gay, stop going on about it. It so put-on it's ridiculous. Although he is straight David Walliams is at it too and I don't see the need for it. Graham Norton and Neil Patrick Harris don't act camp, or shove their sexuality down your throat (no pun intended!). They are gay and I happily watch shows that their on without getting pissed off. Why can't gay people be more like them ME?

This is hilarious I didn’t know what was funnier that fact that Graham Norton wasn’t Camp or your complete paranoia!!





You need help!! LOL



*made my day lol*

krudler

Kev_2012 wrote: »

Exactly! I didn't know Simon Amstell was gay for years! Why aren't all gay people that subtle I just don't understand the need for the campness...

why dont all straight men drink beer, watch football and act macho?

oh thats right, people have different character traits. I have gay friends who dont act gay at all, and some that are out and out queens, people dont have to hide their personalities just to appease people like you.

oh and Graham Norton not camp? seriously?

cursai

Im like all for sex mixing ups. Im like so future minded and bisexual. As loooonnng as their happy. God the world is FAAAANNNNtaaaastic. Great to see a man dressed and cut up like a woman ya. Its like the bionic man stepped up for transgender rights. Ha Ha. Im so intelligent.







tis ****in wrong. she decieved them and the audience. Nothing more. If she walked into the competition stating her situation. itd be a different story.

Biggins

Chamone MF wrote: »

no ovaries, no menstrual cycle, no functioning mammary glands, big hands, born with testes.
its a guy.

I assume many women are born with parts missing or no eventual cycle - does that make them too any less a woman?

And no matter what any one person is born with, they are what they are - as they stand before you in present time - not what they might have been a long time ago before things changed completely.

prinz

twinQuins wrote: »

Why does it matter to you how people act? It's more than a little hypocritical of you to whinge about the "PC brigade" and then come out with this - implying people should be acting a certain way..

Is that aimed at Kev or Kooli? They both have issues with how some people act.

Annasopra

Fenian Army wrote: »

I dont think that some operations etc can change someone from being a man to a woman, I don't think that the person pictured is a "woman" in the truest sense of the word. I feel very sorry for transgender people, it can't be easy.

That said if it makes their lives even a little bit better to live as a woman, be treated as women, recognized by the state as such then I support transgender rights fully.

And there you were trying to sell us all sinn fein policy on the matter last week - Policy that you evidently disagree with :rolleyes:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=78625496&postcount=21

Bobo78

OMG this world has really gone to dogs...

Kooli

prinz wrote: »

Is that aimed at Kev or Kooli? They both have issues with how some people act.

I don't think it was aimed at me, because I definitely never mentioned the 'PC brigade'!!

prinz

Anywho back on topic, so what are the odds on Jenna winning?

Annasopra

CreepingDeath wrote: »

So when should we start teaching kids about transsexuals then ?
How would that go ?

Shows a child a crayon picture of a man... "Now, this is a man".
Shows a child a crayon picture of a woman... "And this is a woman".
Woman can have babies, but men can't.
Got that ?

Okay, now some men think they're women and make themselves look like women, but they can't have babies.
And some women think they're men, and make themselves look like men, and they may or may not be able to have babies after that.

So I'm glad we cleared that up.... :rolleyes:

I have a book at home on how to teach kids about LGBT issues - I can give you a copy if you want

Ruralyoke

Kev_2012 wrote: »

I didn't know Simon Amstell was gay for years!

Ah but are you sure he is though?

Is he not just middle class and English?

prinz

Kooli wrote: »

I don't think it was aimed at me, because I definitely never mentioned the 'PC brigade'!!

Lol, I know, but it's just funny how people sometimes only see what they want to see, two, three posts jumping on Kev for having a problem with how some people act who are gay - major drama. Have a problem with how some straight people act......meh. :pac:

prinz

mango salsa wrote: »

I have a book at home on how to teach kids about LGBT issues - I can give you a copy if you want

Do you have a book on how to teach them about straight issues?

DubArk

prinz wrote: »

Do you have a book on how to teach them about straight issues?

Ironic really
Kev_2012=Ken_1912
And of course side show bob= who has resorted to humour to entertain us all!!! :pac:

KeithM89_old

Mod
CreepingDeath permanently Banned.

Kev_2012

CreepingDeath wrote: »

The gay community tend to have bigger assholes.

Kooli wrote: »

Why on earth should they follow your rules??

Some gay men are camp some aren't. (same as some straight men can be camp)

Some straight men are so macho and sleazy it annoys me, but that's my personal preference, I don't start hating on all straight men for it!

It's really none of your business how gay people choose to live their life.

Never said they should. I just said why can't they not be camp.

I don't like a few different social groups because of how they act not just camp people!

Never said it was my business. Just wondering what is the need for the campness.

twinQuins wrote: »

Why does it matter to you how people act? It's more than a little hypocritical of you to whinge about the "PC brigade" and then come out with this - implying people should be acting a certain way.

**** sake, AH gets worse by the hour. Either that or I'm being trolled old style.

Because if it's in my presence then it directly affects me obviously. I don't like people smoking around me but I'm not try to make them stop.

No the PC brigade annoy me because they will nitpick at any tiny indescretion. I'm waiting to be told that I can't say fags for cigarettes or something in the future.

DubArk wrote: »

This is hilarious I didn’t know what was funnier that fact that Graham Norton wasn’t Camp or your complete paranoia!!





You need help!! LOL



*made my day lol*

Well he's certainly a lot less camp than others!!! Pretty sad that this made your day tbh. Oh ya, I forgot, I'm ignoring you for your earlier insult.

krudler wrote: »

why dont all straight men drink beer, watch football and act macho?

oh thats right, people have different character traits. I have gay friends who dont act gay at all, and some that are out and out queens, people dont have to hide their personalities just to appease people like you.

oh and Graham Norton not camp? seriously?

Sure I didnt watch sport when I was younger, so what's your point? I know people have different character traits, again I'm not stupid.

In fairness there is having different personalities, and being a complete clown in public. And that applies to all people.

Would you be happy with a personal trait of someone if they were up front with you and openly asked you about your sex life in front of others and potentially embarrassed you? (Just an example.)

I'm not asking people to appease "the likes of people like me" but rather to have a bit of decorum in public.

cursai wrote: »

Im like all for sex mixing ups. Im like so future minded and bisexual. As loooonnng as their happy. God the world is FAAAANNNNtaaaastic. Great to see a man dressed and cut up like a woman ya. Its like the bionic man stepped up for transgender rights. Ha Ha. Im so intelligent.







tis ****in wrong. she decieved them and the audience. Nothing more. If she walked into the competition stating her situation. itd be a different story.

True story. If someones gender identity was female and they were physically male, then is it discrimination for them to enter? If Usain Bolt had sex reassignment surgery, would he be allowed race in the women's 100m. It's just very very wrong IMO.

Biggins wrote: »

I assume many women are born with parts missing or no eventual cycle - does that make them too any less a woman?

And no matter what any one person is born with, they are what they are - as they stand before you in present time - not what they might have been a long time ago before things changed completely.

It's not the same. A woman born a women =/= a male reassigned as a female.

I'm sorry but I disagree. How can anybody think that a surgically altered penis is a vagina? If I have a trunk, tail, horns attached, my skin changed to grey and walk around on all fours, does that make me an elephant?

prinz wrote: »

Is that aimed at Kev or Kooli? They both have issues with how some people act.

In fairness, everybody in the world has problems with how some people act

Kooli

prinz wrote: »

Do you have a book on how to teach them about straight issues?

What are straight issues?

Kooli

prinz wrote: »

Lol, I know, but it's just funny how people sometimes only see what they want to see, two, three posts jumping on Kev for having a problem with how some people act who are gay - major drama. Have a problem with how some straight people act......meh. :pac:

But the point I was making is that it's OK to have a personal preference about how certain people act. Doesn't mean you're insisting they change (unless of course they are infringing on the rights of others)

But it's the attitude of 'Why can't they just conform to the norm that I'm most comfortable with regardless of their own personality or preferences?' that peope are 'jumping on'.

Annasopra

prinz wrote: »

Do you have a book on how to teach them about straight issues?

There's billions of them in the world already

Biggins

Kev_2012 wrote: »

It's not the same. A woman born a women =/= a male reassigned as a female.

I'm sorry but I disagree. How can anybody think that a surgically altered penis is a vagina? If I have a trunk, tail, horns attached, my skin changed to grey and walk around on all fours, does that make me an elephant?

There is a big difference between some thing that is naturally part of you - that is then altered to suit ones desires - than completely attaching something, gotten from elsewhere totally.

A totally diffident situation.

Fr_Dougal

Kev_2012 wrote: »

I'm sorry but I disagree. How can anybody think that a surgically altered penis is a vagina? If I have a trunk, tail, horns attached, my skin changed to grey and walk around on all fours, does that make me an elephant?

If you're born blind and the doctors operate on you to restore your sight and the operation is a success; does that make you a blind person?

Kev_2012

Biggins wrote: »

There is a big difference between some thing that is naturally part of you - that is then altered to suit ones desires - than completely attaching something, gotten from elsewhere totally.

A totally diffident situation.

So hormone treatment is naturally part of someone?

I'm fairly sure that they don't naturally have the genitalia of the opposite sex so I fail to see how they can change completely.

FanadMan

Son0vagun wrote: »

Ya still would though wouldn't ya.

I know I would......well, till I saw the article. Now I'm not sure

FanadMan

Biggins wrote: »

There is a big difference between some thing that is naturally part of you - that is then altered to suit ones desires - than completely attaching something, gotten from elsewhere totally.

A totally diffident situation.

Like this? http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g12/superjkbros/southpark/9012_blow_hole.jpg

Buceph

matt-dublin wrote: »

just trust issues? you wouldnt be freaked out and annoyed by the fact that you just emptied your nutsack to a man who's had his p3nis surgically tucked in?

I'm not sure I get this. So you had sex with the woman. You were sexually aroused and enjoyed it. But you're freaked out because of why? If you enjoyed the sex you enjoyed the sex. Nothing wrong with that. Unless there's a compelling reason why you shouldn't indulge that enjoyment I don't see where the problem is.

Kev_2012

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

If you're born blind and the doctors operate on you to restore your sight and the operation is a success; does that make you a blind person?

But it's still an eye!!! You are just repairing it.

A surgically changed eye couldn't become an ear for example.

Biggins

Kev_2012 wrote: »

So hormone treatment is naturally part of someone?

Hormone treatment is chemicals enhancing/utilising something that's there already, just not working right and/or has a problem!

KamiKazeKitten

Kev_2012 wrote: »

Because I wouldn't like my child to cause problems amongst their circle of closest people that would affect themselves and also their own lives in an irreparable way.

I wouldn't view someone being gay as causing problems. However, to each their own.

Kev_2012 wrote: »

Take your man Louis Spence on telly. Anything he is on, he basically go OTT with showing that he is gay, wow we get it, you are gay, stop going on about it. It so put-on it's ridiculous. Although he is straight David Walliams is at it too and I don't see the need for it. Graham Norton and Neil Patrick Harris don't act camp, or shove their sexuality down your throat (no pun intended!). They are gay and I happily watch shows that their on without getting pissed off. Why can't gay people be more like them?

Now that's a fair point, but every straight guy on telly doesn't just talk about beer and football all the time, so all it proves is that gay people are normal humans and not cookie cutter beings.

pickarooney wrote: »

So what do you say when your 13-year old son tells you he's sexually attracted to a) his male teacher or b) the six year old next door?

If it's a simple concept you shouldn't have to think too long before giving him an appropriate response.

Well, firstly both are illegal.
In the first case, the feelings he is having are perfectly ok but that they are focused on the wrong person. It's a crush that he has (and lots of other teenagers do too), but he can't act on it.

In the second case, this is a bit more difficult to handle. I'd have to say to him that he can never act on those feelings for a child. I'd also maybe look at getting him a counsellor to talk through his feelings with as it's not an issue I'd say most parents would understand.

With both, I'd have to stress that I still love them.

Kev_2012

Buceph wrote: »

I'm not sure I get this. So you had sex with the woman. You were sexually aroused and enjoyed it. But you're freaked out because of why? If you enjoyed the sex you enjoyed the sex. Nothing wrong with that. Unless there's a compelling reason why you shouldn't indulge that enjoyment I don't see where the problem is.

Probably because in the off chance that you couldn't spot that her vagina is actually a tucked in penis, and you did have sex with her, you might be a *little* freaked out if you later found out it was a man.

3ndahalfof6

[QUOTE

I'm sorry but I disagree. How can anybody think that a surgically altered penis is a vagina? If I have a trunk, tail, horns attached, my skin changed to grey and walk around on all fours, does that make me an elephant?[/QUOTE]


even if you did this you would not be able to pull it off, elephants dont have horns.

prinz

mango salsa wrote: »

There's billions of them in the world already

Typical and expected stock answer tbh but it doesn't address the question I asked you, and it goes to highlight the blinkered nature of your approach.

Kev_2012

3ndahalfof6 wrote: »

even if you did this you would not be able to pull it off, elephants dont have horns.

TUSKS! my mistake, couldn't think of the word.

Buceph

Kev_2012 wrote: »

Probably because in the off chance that you couldn't spot that her vagina is actually a tucked in penis, and you did have sex with her, you might be a *little* freaked out if you later found out it was a man.

I know. I'm asking why would you be freaked out? You weren't forced into it. You either got off from it or you didn't. If you were in a relationship with the person then I might see some issue about trust, but if it's a one night stand then all it seems to be about is whether you're getting your jollies and that's pretty much a physical thing. So if you did, where's the problem?

DubArk

Kev_2012 wrote: »

Probably because in the off chance that you couldn't spot that her vagina is actually a tucked in penis, and you did have sex with her, you might be a *little* freaked out if you later found out it was a man.

And that's the point She is an "it" to you!!! She is a human FFS.