Alleged drug dealer allowed to go to euro 2012

chocksaway

Just seen in the metro this morning that a man accused of being a cocaine dealer was given his passport back so he can go to euro 2012. That's fine- innocent until proven guilty and all that. Thing is though that he's on free legal aid. surely if he can afford to Feck off to Europe for a few weeks he can pay his own legal fees. Is there any research done at all to see if someone can or can't pay the costs!

galwayrush

chocksaway wrote: »

Just seen in the metro this morning that a mam accused of being a cocaine dealer was given his passport back so he can go to euro 2012. That's fine- innocent until proven guilty and all that. Thing is though that he's on free legal aid. surely if he can afford to Feck off to Europe for a few weeks he can pay his own legal fees. Is there any research done at all to see if someone can or can't pay the costs!

Tribunal anybody?:rolleyes:

suicide_circus

Well you see, while he was dealing he could afford to buy flights, match tickets etc. Now that he's been stung, cash flow has dried up so he cant afford legal representation.

chocksaway

Can't believe the judge just gave it back to him. Gonna look pretty redfaced if he doesn't come back. He's facing a minimum 10year sentence!

vibe666

suicide_circus wrote: »

Well you see, while he was dealing he could afford to buy flights, match tickets etc. Now that he's been stung, cash flow has dried up so he cant afford legal representation.

yep, one of the pitfalls of being self employed.

stovelid

Who gives a f+ck.

One less person to foot a prison bill for.

forfuxsake

Why should an innocent person(which we presume he is) be forced to pay to defend himself against false allegations?(which we presume they are).

chocksaway

I care. It's the principle of the matter. He was arrested, released on bail, given back his passport and told he doesn't have to sign on until he comes back. Gives the impression that its ok to deal drugs and that the courts Will go easy on you.

chocksaway

forfuxsake wrote: »

Why should an innocent person(which we presume he is) be forced to pay to defend himself against false allegations?(which we presume they are).

He had them in his house and near by location. That's fairly cut and dry for me. They ain't no false allegations to me anyway. But hey I ain't no lawyer so my opinion isn't worth a whole lot. Just think the whole thing is ass backwards!

conorhal

stovelid wrote: »

Who gives a f+ck.

One less person to foot a prison bill for.

He's on bail, not in prison. So it's one less person signing on at a Garda station once a week actually.

What this case highlights is how rediculously lax the courts are regards giving bail in the first place, and the conditions of that bail in the second.
The amount of crime comitted by people on bail, released on licence or on probabtion is staggering, you only have to look at the number of people up un court on their 50th or 60th conviction to know that. Logic would also dictate that anybody in their twenties with 60 convictions probably commited most of those crimes under licence, otherwise they must all have been comitted in one massive crime spree on the one day they had been out of jail in the last 10 years.

A fellow parishoner at my folks church was murdered by her dangerous, drug adict son who was out on bail, he had absconded and a warrent was issued for his arrest.
What's sickening about the whole case is the fact that Guards knew exactly where he was, they couldn't not, he was well known to them, highly visible and didn't exactly stay away from any of his old haunts, but because the offence was petty dealing they just couldn't be bothered picking him up, net result, a woman was beaten and tortured over the course two days untill she died because she refused sign over her house to her son.
Judges need to think about cases like this when they consider bail applications. In fact the judges in this country need a right good Bishop Brennan-ing.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

when you say drug dealer do you mean several million euro worth of meth and assault rifles, or a few 100 bags of coke and an ounce of weed....

chocksaway

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

when you say drug dealer do you mean several million euro worth of meth and assault rifles, or a few 100 bags of coke and an ounce of weed....

According to the metro it was €13000 worth. So whatever that equates to...

Pal

"Football isn't a matter of life and death. It's much more important than that"

blatantrereg

Bail is only not granted if they think you'll run off. It's unrelated to the severity of the offence. You are not supposed to be considered guilty of the offence while on bail after all.

stovelid

chocksaway wrote: »

According to the metro it was €13000 worth. So whatever that equates to...

Not enough to keep Gerry Ryan and Katy French going until the early house, basically.

lividduck

chocksaway wrote: »

I care. It's the principle of the matter. He was arrested, released on bail, given back his passport and told he doesn't have to sign on until he comes back. Gives the impression that its ok to deal drugs and that the courts Will go easy on you.

You obviously missed the bit about him being accused not convicted.

conorhal

blatantrereg wrote: »

Bail is only not granted if they think you'll run off. It's unrelated to the severity of the offence. You are not supposed to be considered guilty of the offence while on bail after all.

Well it should be, logic dictates that the severity + the liklihood of a conviction (this guy seems to have been caught bang to rights) tend to be directly proportional to the level of flight risk. Do the simple maths, certian conviction + long sentence + likley drugs contacts on the contenent = high liklihood of skipping bail. Not to mention the high level of violence and intimidation that tends to accompany his 'profession'.

When it comes to guys like this there should be a good compelling reason to give him bail (I don't consider a football match to be one of them) not a good reason not to.

lividduck

conorhal wrote: »

He's on bail, not in prison. So it's one less person signing on at a Garda station once a week actually.

What this case highlights is how rediculously lax the courts are regards giving bail in the first place, and the conditions of that bail in the second.
The amount of crime comitted by people on bail, released on licence or on probabtion is staggering.
A fellow parishoner at my folks church was murdered by her dangerous, drug adict, son who was out on bail, he had absconded and a warrent was issued for his arrest. What's sickening about the whole case is the fact that Guards knew exactly where he was, they couldn't not, he was well known to them, highly visible and didn't exactly stay away from any of his old haunts, but because the offence was petty dealing they just couldn't be bothered picking him up, net result, a woman was beaten and tortured over the course two days untill she died because she refused sign over her house to her son.
Judges need to think about cases like this when they consider bail applications. In fact the judges in this country need a right good Bishop Brennan-ing.

The amount of crime comitted by people on bail, released on licence or on probabtion is staggering....Link to evidence for this wild claim?

chocksaway

stovelid wrote: »

chocksaway wrote: »

According to the metro it was €13000 worth. So whatever that equates to...

Not enough to keep Gerry Ryan and Katy French going until the early house, bnbasically.

And the public outcry when they od! Them be's the risks. Natural selection at its finest I think.

El Weirdo

mod

Thread title amended to reflect that this man hasn't been convicted yet.

Please remember that.

/mod

Turpentine

I always thought one of the conditions of bail was that you couldn't leave the jurisdiction, i.e surrender your passport etc.

Surely this fella is now a "flight certainty" rather than a "flight risk", the only question is wether or not he bothers to come back.

chocksaway

Turpentine wrote: »

I always thought one of the conditions of bail was that you couldn't leave the jurisdiction, i.e surrender your passport etc.

Surely this fella is now a "flight certainty" rather than a "flight risk", the only question is wether or not he bothers to come back.

Exactly! He's facing a minimum of ten years if convicted. That's a big incentive not to come back.

conorhal

lividduck wrote: »

The amount of crime comitted by people on bail, released on licence or on probabtion is staggering....Link to evidence for this wild claim?

Read the link, 25% of crime is commited by suspects on bail.
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/suspects-on-bail-commit-25pc-of-recorded-crimes-1393774.html
And that's before Shatter decided that the revolving door's RPM's weren't high enough.

It doesn't take a feckin' genious to work out that anybody in their twenties up in court on their 60th conviction (and there's no shortage of them) probably commited most of those crimes while under licence, otherwise they must all have been comitted in one massive crime spree on the one day they had been out of jail in the last 10 years.




"Figures obtained by Fine Gael's justice spokesman Charlie Flanagan show alarming statistics relating to crimes committed by people on bail.
The figures released to Mr Flanagan reveal that, since 2008, people on bail committed 15 murders, 47 sexual offences, 1,681 car theft offences, 508 burglaries, 122 aggravated burglaries (that is, burglaries accompanied by violence or threats), and 70 murder threats.
The greatest offender in the history of the State in relation to committing crime while on bail is undoubtedly Eamon Dunne, who was shot dead in Cabra two months ago. Dunne had been on bail since 2002, when he was caught by gardai with a bound and gagged man in the boot of his car, and whom he was probably intending to kill or torture. He was on bail at that stage on firearms offences. Dunne succeeded in staying free on bail for more than seven years, during which he was involved, gardai estimate, in 17 murders."

lividduck

conorhal wrote: »

Read the link, 25% of crime is commited by suspects on bail.
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/suspects-on-bail-commit-25pc-of-recorded-crimes-1393774.html
And that's before Shatter decided that the revolving door's RPM's weren't high enough.

It doesn't take a feckin' genious to work out that anybody in their twenties up in courth on their 60th conviction probably commited most of those crimes while under licence, otherwise they must all have been comitted in one massive crime spree on the one day they had been out of jail in the last 10 years.




"Figures obtained by Fine Gael's justice spokesman Charlie Flanagan show alarming statistics relating to crimes committed by people on bail.
The figures released to Mr Flanagan reveal that, since 2008, people on bail committed 15 murders, 47 sexual offences, 1,681 car theft offences, 508 burglaries, 122 aggravated burglaries (that is, burglaries accompanied by violence or threats), and 70 murder threats.
The greatest offender in the history of the State in relation to committing crime while on bail is undoubtedly Eamon Dunne, who was shot dead in Cabra two months ago. Dunne had been on bail since 2002, when he was caught by gardai with a bound and gagged man in the boot of his car, and whom he was probably intending to kill or torture. He was on bail at that stage on firearms offences. Dunne succeeded in staying free on bail for more than seven years, during which he was involved, gardai estimate, in 17 murders."

So as a percentage of all crimes committed in that period it was very small as oppossed to staggering. Thanks.

Captain Darling

He only wants to go to da bleedin euros bud!!

Jackeen!

IrishAm

chocksaway wrote: »

According to the metro it was €13000 worth. So whatever that equates to...

So, he went have halves on a quarter oz.

IrishAm

Captain Darling wrote: »

Jackeen!

No, he is a Dublin lad apparently. Not a Cork lad.

conorhal

lividduck wrote: »

So as a percentage of all crimes committed in that period it was very small as oppossed to staggering. Thanks.

I think that a quater of all cime being comitted by people on bail IS bloody staggering, and those are 2008 figures. I can only assume that figure has gone up since Shatter threw open the prison doors to address cost and resourcing issues.
Shrug if you like and consider it nothing, but I assure you that the families of the 15 murder victims commited by thugs on bail probably don't.

Ellis Dee

chocksaway wrote: »

He had them in his house and near by location. That's fairly cut and dry for me.

He is alleged to have had them in his house. That has not yet been proved in court. But if you just believe claims/rumours without their being tested in a court of law, I suppose everything is cut and dry for you.

chocksaway wrote: »

They ain't no false allegations to me anyway. But hey I ain't no lawyer so my opinion isn't worth a whole lot. Just think the whole thing is ass backwards!

In the bit I have bolded, I see the beginning of wisdom. One day you may attain enough enlightenment to recognise the importance of the principle of presumption of innocence and acknowledge that everyone deserves a fair trial.:):)

IrishAm

conorhal wrote: »

Shatter threw open the prison doors to address cost and resourcing issues.

Shatters a bollix.

Anyway, 13 grands worth of white is, given Gardai value a gram at 100 euro, 130 grammes of the stuff(max). Not exactly Pablo Escobar type material.

The chaps only a link in the chain.

Legalise it.

Tax it.

Kill off the lads trade who are dealing millions of euro worth of the shit.

pickarooney

What's it this week, are we looking for drug dealers to be executed on sight or for all drugs to be legalised? I can never keep up.

lividduck

conorhal wrote: »

I think that a quater of all cime being comitted by people on bail IS bloody staggering, and those are 2008 figures. I can only assume that figure has gone up since Shatter threw open the prison doors to address cost and resourcing issues.
Shrug if you like and consider it nothing, but I assure you that the families of the 15 murder victims commited by thugs on bail probably don't.

More hyperbole,more exaggeration, nobody "threw open the prison doors".
Sure why let the facts get in the way when you have a chip on your shoulder.
As for " I can only assume" I take it that is an admission that in the abscence of evidence you are going to just throw out unfounded statements in the hope they will be univerally accepted as fact.

Jesus Shaves

IrishAm wrote: »

No, he is a Dublin apparently. Not a Cork lad.

eh yeah

Gurgle

conorhal wrote: »

Dunne succeeded in staying free on bail for more than seven years, during which he was involved, gardai estimate, in 17 murders."

Scumbag at the top of the 'known to the gardaì' list spent seven years out on bail?
I think I see the problem here.

This guy going to the Euros, how long has he been on bail?

Show Time

I hope he has a great time over there.

IrishAm

lividduck wrote: »

More hyperbole,more exaggeration, nobody "threw open the prison doors".
Sure why let the facts get in the way when you have a chip on your shoulder.
As for " I can only assume" I take it that is an admission that in the abscence of evidence you are going to just throw out unfounded statements in the hope they will be univerally accepted as fact.

Eh?

MINISTER FOR Justice Alan Shatter has unveiled plans for the early release of 1,200 prisoners over the next three years to ease prison overcrowding and begin the reform of the prison system.

Under the plan, prisoners serving between one year and eight years will be eligible for a community release scheme half way through their sentence.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0501/1224315408098.html

Captain Darling

IrishAm wrote: »

No, he is a Dublin apparently. Not a Cork lad.

All the fecking same to us mullahs.

IrishAm

darokane wrote: »

eh yeah

Look up the historical origins of the word Jackeen. Then compare and contrast Dublin with Cork during Lizzies visit.

Jesus Shaves

IrishAm wrote: »

Look up the historical origins of the word Jackeen. Then compare and contrast Dublin with Cork during Lizzies visit.

eh no

IrishAm

darokane wrote: »

eh no

Well then stop asking stooopid fucking questions.

Jesus Shaves

IrishAm wrote: »

Well then stop asking stooopid fucking questions.

What question?;)

conorhal

lividduck wrote: »

More hyperbole,more exaggeration, nobody "threw open the prison doors".
Sure why let the facts get in the way when you have a chip on your shoulder.
As for " I can only assume" I take it that is an admission that in the abscence of evidence you are going to just throw out unfounded statements in the hope they will be univerally accepted as fact.

I only see one person trading in hyperbole here, the fact is that Shatter has authorised the early release of 1,200 prisoners to address over crowding. As for the caviats offered, I have little confidence in the prison services effectively managing this. This is after all the same prison service that stuck the murderer of a Guard with a history for absconding into an open prison.

I'd like to see your statistics for how well our justice system is functioning if you think everything is hunky dory? You seem a tit tetchy yourself and if my irritation is seems somewhat exagerated to you, it's more then matched your 'nothing to see here' head in the sand approach to a serious issue that you don't seem to think is worthy of examination.

Kolido

I don't see a problem if John Terry can go.

gdavis

cant believe someone actually believes he will get 10 years minimum,he will spend no more than 2 years in prison if convicted

chocksaway

Ellis Dee wrote: »

He is alleged to have had them in his house. That has not yet been proved in court. But if you just believe claims/rumours without their being tested in a court of law, I suppose everything is cut and dry for you.



In the bit I have bolded, I see the beginning of wisdom. One day you may attain enough enlightenment to recognise the importance of the principle of presumption of innocence and acknowledge that everyone deserves a fair trial.:):)

Not saying he doesnt deserve a fair trial at all. He'll have his day in court and whatever comes out of that is up to the courts. Just think its rediculous for him to be given his passport so he can swan across europe to a football match and have a jolly old time doing so. Thats the main point I'm trying to make.

MagicSean

I thought this thread was about the fact that he was given legal aid when he apparently has enough money to splash out on a few weeks in Europe. Legal aid should be for those who need it, not for people who can obviously afford it.

Jaxxy

I wish I could go to the Euros.

chocksaway

the whole thing just reeks of stupidity.

Turpentine

MagicSean wrote: »

I thought this thread was about the fact that he was given legal aid when he apparently has enough money to splash out on a few weeks in Europe. Legal aid should be for those who need it, not for people who can obviously afford it.

While that's part of it, I think it's more to do with the fact that he has been given bail for the express reason that he wants to leave the jurisdiction.

MagicSean

Turpentine wrote: »

While that's part of it, I think it's more to do with the fact that he has been given bail for the express reason that he wants to leave the jurisdiction.

Can't see why that's a big deal. Bail is just an agreement to come to the next court date. It doesn't actually require a person to stay in the country. If he doesn't come back it just means we save the cost of the trial and prison and have one less drug dealer in the country.

lividduck

MagicSean wrote: »

Can't see why that's a big deal. Bail is just an agreement to come to the next court date. It doesn't actually require a person to stay in the country. If he doesn't come back it just means we save the cost of the trial and prison and have one less drug dealer in the country.

Childish and idiotic post as it assumes that everyone granted bail is guilty.