NI man mistake Italian flag for Irish

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Chamone MF wrote: »

How so? Do tell.

You're the one who's arguing it (and gettign it wrong!)

humanji

magma69 wrote: »

People who accept their existence.

I've reported you for personal abuse btw.

Calling people "West Brits" is also personal abuse, so cut it out.

bruschi

Chamone MF wrote: »

How so? Do tell.

Willie Frazer cant differentiate colours on a flag.

Neither, it seems, can you.

Chamone MF

bruschi wrote: »

Willie Frazer cant differentiate colours on a flag.

Neither, it seems, can you.

Seriously, let it go. Don't get emotional about issues in the past, lets give peace a chance.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Chamone MF wrote: »

Seriously, let it go. Don't get emotional about issues in the past, lets give peace a chance.

No. Peace is dangerous. Peace should be jumped up and down and eradicated in fvaour of petty arguments. Okay, now I'm beginning to sound like Willie Frazer.

Chamone MF

lol yeah.

fryup

Nodin wrote: »

Gerry Adams intervened on behalf of some members of the protestant community in Willie Frazers area. Find me an example of the other side of that from Willie.

well he helped to highlight the murder of catholic Paul Quinn

pity Adams stayed quiet about it:cool:

Ruralyoke

Well I AM Willie Frazer and I'm outraged - again! :mad::mad::mad:

This thread represents a really terrible sitchy ayshin!

Nodin

fryup wrote: »

well he helped to highlight the murder of catholic Paul Quinn

Hijacked for his own nutty ends =/= Help

fryup wrote: »

pity Adams stayed quiet about it:cool:

Did he?
http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/10400

fasttalkerchat

fryup wrote: »

well he helped to highlight the murder of catholic Paul Quinn

pity Adams stayed quiet about it:cool:

He heard that someone was killed in a republican area and decided to shout his mouth off that the 'ra are back.
I don't think he gives a **** about a dead fenian!

philstar

Nodin wrote: »

Did he?
http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/10400

hollow words

yep, and afterwards his pals in SF tried to slur his name

fasttalkerchat

philstar wrote: »

hollow words

yep, and afterwards his pals in SF tried to slur his name

At the funeral the family said something along the lines that if it had to happen he should have been shot cleanly. The public uproar was about how he was killed, not about protesting his innocence.

Nodin

philstar wrote: »

hollow words

He says nothing = Boo, Hiss

He says something = Boo, Hiss

philstar

Nodin wrote: »

He says nothing = Boo, Hiss

He says something = Boo, Hiss

if he said something sincerely, it would make a welcome change

Nodin

philstar wrote: »

if he said something sincerely, it would make a welcome change

....and what an uncritical audience would judge his sincerity.

Why are we talking about Gerry in a thread on the notorious willie frazer?

Chamone MF

True.

true

[QUOTE=Nodin;78837494Why are we talking about Gerry in a thread on the notorious willie frazer?[/QUOTE]

A chara, Because Gerry Adams was - many people believe- in the leadership of the PIRA in Belfast in the era of the Bloody friday bombings, when innocent protestants lost their lives, and millions of pounds of damage was done to the economy. He was - many people reliably believe - involved in the PIRA in Belfast when protestant Jean McColville was abducted, tortured and killed, leaving helpless children abandoned behind.

Sin sceal eile: Willi Fraser spoke / speaks out because he has seen many of his family and friends killed because they were protestants and because they were law abiding employees of the state. He has seen the intimidation and experienced terrorism first hand, and 6 members of his family paid the ultimate price.
Is mise le mas.

fasttalkerchat

true wrote: »

A chara, Because Gerry Adams was - many people believe- in the leadership of the PIRA in Belfast in the era of the Bloody friday bombings, when innocent protestants lost their lives, and millions of pounds of damage was done to the economy. He was - many people reliably believe - involved in the PIRA in Belfast when protestant Jean McColville was abducted, tortured and killed, leaving helpless children abandoned behind.

Sin sceal eile: Willi Fraser spoke / speaks out because he has seen many of his family and friends killed because they were protestants and because they were law abiding employees of the state. He has seen the intimidation and experienced terrorism first hand, and 6 members of his family paid the ultimate price.
Is mise le mas.

I don't see how you can criticise Gerry Adams for possible/alleged IRA membership and call UDR members "law abiding employees of the state" in the same post. One set of rules for government forces and another for the rebels?

true

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

I don't see how you can criticise Gerry Adams for possible/alleged IRA membership and call UDR members "law abiding employees of the state" in the same post.

The UDR was a regiment of the British army. Its members were mostly law abiding citizens of the UK of great Britain and N. Ireland. All its members were required to uphold the law,and answerable to the law, just as other members of the security forces in these islands were and are. You cannot tar tens of thousands of people because a small minority were not law abiding.
If you look at our own Gardai, you will find some collusion with PIRA there too, as found for example in the Dundalk case recently.(investigation of the 2 RUC detectives murdered shortly after their meeting with Gardai in Co. Louth)

Chuck Stone

true wrote: »

Willi Fraser spoke / speaks out because he has seen many of his family and friends killed because they were protestants and because they were law abiding employees of the state.

They were employees of a sectarian state and they did not act as civilian security services - ergo they were little more than Unionist militias.

Also, being employed by the state does not automatically imbue the employee with virtuous qualities... the RUC/B Specials/UDR no longer exist for good reason - their ranks were populated with sectarian scum.

Chuck Stone

true wrote: »

The UDR was a regiment of the British army. Its members were mostly law abiding citizens of the UK of great Britain and N. Ireland.

Since its formation, in 1970, the regiment was criticized for bias during The Troubles in Northern Ireland. The regiment was infiltrated by, and colluded with, paramilitary groups. Weapons assigned to the regiment reported as stolen did reappear during sectarian violence.

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/publicrecords/1973/subversion_in_the_udr.htm

A great bunch of lads.

fasttalkerchat

Chuck Stone wrote: »

They were employees of a sectarian state and they did not act as civilian security services - ergo they were little more than Unionist militias.

This, also they were not answerable to the law as "true" said. Look at how few UDR members were convicted and served time yet suspected republicans were held without ever seeing a judge.

true

The Gardai was also infiltrated by a paramilitary group;).


Weapons assigned to the regiment reported as stolen did reappear during sectarian violence. And what about the arms trial in the early seventies here?

Chuck Stone

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

This, also they were not answerable to the law as "true" said. Look at how few UDR members were convicted and served time yet suspected republicans were held without ever seeing a judge.

If anything the fact that they were employed by the sectarian state all but guaranteed that you could get away with shooting a Catholic every now and then - and indeed receive a tax-payer funded pension for your loyal.. service.

true

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Look at how few UDR members were convicted

look how few were terrorists


Are you aware that more Catholics were killed by the PIRA than by the security services ( army/police).

Chuck Stone

true wrote: »

Are you aware that more Catholics were killed by the PIRA than by the security services ( army/police).

The RUC/BA etc had their bedfellows in the loyalist death squads to do their dirty work.

fasttalkerchat

true wrote: »

look how few were terrorists


Are you aware that more Catholics were killed by the PIRA than by the security services ( army/police).

Makes no difference to me what religion someone was. I am well aware of the breakdown of those killed by the PIRA and by British forces.

true

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

I am well aware of the breakdown of those killed by the PIRA and by British forces.

Good. You will then be aware that more Catholics were killed by the PIRA than by the security services ( army/police).

true

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Makes no difference to me what religion someone was.

me neither, but we have all heard the comments from extremist republicans , especially when they have had a few drinks;)
The IRA has a track record of killing Protestants, even going back to the early decades of the 20th century in places like Cork.

fasttalkerchat

true wrote: »

Good. You will then be aware that more Catholics were killed by the PIRA than by the security services ( army/police).

200 of 3200 deaths were republicans killed by other republicans accidentally or otherwise. Also drug dealers and touts killed by republicans were largely from within the nationalist community so the majority would have been catholic. There were some Catholic RUC and British army members.

I don't get what this proves.


EDIT:

true wrote: »

me neither, but we have all heard the comments from extremist republicans , especially when they have had a few drinks;)

Are you talking about republicans making sectarian comments? That goes totally against what republicanism is all about but I'm not going to pretend it doesn't happen. I certainly have heard it myself.

true

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

I don't get what this proves..

The PIRA cannot credibly claim to be defenders of the Catholic community when it killed so many Catholics.

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Are you talking about republicans making sectarian comments? That goes totally against what republicanism is all about but I'm not going to pretend it doesn't happen. I certainly have heard it myself.

I think we have all heard it. In theory IRA / PIRA / Shinner republicanism was not sectarian but everyone knows in reality it was. You do not have to go to a pub during a celtic or match against England to hear the comments about the black b.....ds.

fasttalkerchat

true wrote: »

The PIRA cannot credibly claim to be defenders of the Catholic community when it killed so many Catholics.

The PIRA drew support from the catholic community following several occasions when it did defend Catholics against Loyalist and State violence. But they were an armed group who set out to drive British forces out of Ireland and establish a 32 county republic. Religion wasn't (in theory part of their aims).
In reality religion and political persuasion crossed over so much that you the PIRA could be said to have "defended a community that happened to be 90% catholic" that but I wouldn't say that many veteran republicans claim to be "defenders of the catholic community".

kowloon

LordSutch wrote: »

It seems like an easy mistake to make, three flags on a Nationalist school one flag in the centre much taller than the other two, which at 1st glance is an Irish Tricolour! on closer inspection the Orange is Red, but why is the Italian flag more prominent & higher than the Polish and Turkish national flags?

Mafia training ground.

FanadMan

There has been so much loose stool water talked about here. In the end up, there has been WAY too many people killed. And people shouting about someone like Willie Frazer is just stirring the pot, just like he does.

There will never be any sort of peace in the 32 counties (and abroad) unless people can just learn to live with their neighbours. But no matter what I or anyone says here, people are just going to be as stubborn as their parents and grand-parents.

As someone said earlier........give peace a chance

Nodin

true wrote: »

The UDR was a regiment of the British army. Its members were mostly law abiding citizens of the UK of great Britain and N. Ireland. All its members were required to uphold the law,and answerable to the law, just as other members of the security forces in these islands were and are. You cannot tar tens of thousands of people because a small minority were not law abiding.
If you look at our own Gardai, you will find some collusion with PIRA there too, as found for example in the Dundalk case recently.(investigation of the 2 RUC detectives murdered shortly after their meeting with Gardai in Co. Louth)

true wrote: »

look how few were terrorists

Dear jaysus.......

The UDR was mostly composed of the ex-members of the B-Specials. During the early 70's it was the prime source for modern weaponry. As for the nonsense that it was a "small minority" - according to an internal British report referring to Belfast alone

The British army has been accused of a ’cover up’ after it was disclosed that it has withheld evidence for more than three decades revealing that UDR units were being used to finance and support the UVF in Belfast, with at least 70 soldiers on one base linked to the loyalist terror group.
The Detail website can reveal top secret government papers which disclose that the UDR’s Belfast battalion was heavily infiltrated by the UVF in the late 1970s.

http://www.thedetail.tv/issues/20/udr-girdwood-story/british-army-covered-up-udr-units-links-to-uvf

Nodin

true wrote: »

The Gardai was also infiltrated by a paramilitary group;).


Weapons assigned to the regiment reported as stolen did reappear during sectarian violence. And what about the arms trial in the early seventies here?

Yeah.....what difference does that make to the sectarian nature of the UDR and its loyalist paramilitary links?

Crooked Jack

Back in the headlines again

http://www.newrydemocrat.com/articles/news/27384/frazers-facebook-fallout/

FRAZER'S FACEBOOK FALLOUT

Tuesday, 22 May 2012

LOYALIST campaigner Willie Frazer has caused further controversy on his Facebook site with contentious comments about the Irish tricolour.
The director of Markethill-based victims' group FAIR had to apologise last week after suggesting a primary school in Co Tyrone was "the junior headquarters of IRA youth" after he confused an Italian national flag flying at the school for an Irish tricolour.
But just 48 hours after his embarrassing climb down, Mr Frazer continued his tirade against the tricolour on the social network site.
During an online discussion on the Irish national flag, Mr Frazer said the only time he likes seeing the tricolour is on "special days" when it is draped on a "sf/ira" coffin.
He posted: "The only good thing about that flag when it is use up here, is when some sf/ira per5son is in a box below it. (sic)."
He then added: "I dont have a problem with the tri-colour when they fly it in there own country, it is when the sf/ira scum use it up here in the UK i have an issue with it, except on special day's like when they have in on a coffin at a funeral i dont mind. (sic)."
Mr Frazer, who was in Downing Street yesterday to demand a quicker resolution to compensation from Libya for IRA victims, told the Democrat he was standing by his comments: "I have always said I respect the Irish flag in its proper place. Whenever you see it carried on the coffin of IRA men, it's a different message coming to us.
“The Irish flag should be treated with respect. If I was in Dublin I would stand for The Soldier's Song.
“But republicans have hijacked that flag and they have used it to butcher people from our community and people from the nationalist
“That's the flag they done it in the name of. So it's not the flag I'm getting at, it's the logic behind the use of it by republicans."
Mr Frazer said he understands why people from the nationalist community would be offended by his comments, but added: "I do see how people would be offended and why they should be.
“The point I'm trying to make is that my problem is not with the ordinary nationalist people or the flag, my problem is with republicans who use that flag to justify a murderous campaign. That's my stance on it.
“I put my hands up as I do see why people would be offended, but they're not the target and the flag is not the target."
Commenting on the reference to Sinn Fein members by Mr Frazer, a Sinn Fein spokesperson said: "Sadly this disgusting type of comment is typical and unsurprising coming from Mr Frazer. Mr Frazer, a failed would-be politician, has styled himself as a victims' campaigner while displaying no cognisance of the fact that victims come from all communities in the North.
“Comments such as this show Mr Frazer to be a deeply troubled person whose bigotry knows no lows."
Last week Mr Frazer, whose father was killed by the IRA in 1975, was forced into an apology after suggesting a rural primary school in Tyrone was "the junior headquarters of IRA Youth".
Mistaking the Italian national flag flying on the school for an Irish tricolour, he posted on Facebook: "I wonder do they also train the children in how to use weapons?"
He later apologised, saying: "It is understandable how this mistake could have been made. Looking at the photo you would think it is an Irish tricolour."

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Back in the headlines again

http://www.newrydemocrat.com/articles/news/27384/frazers-facebook-fallout/

FRAZER'S FACEBOOK FALLOUT

Tuesday, 22 May 2012

LOYALIST campaigner Willie Frazer has caused further controversy on his Facebook site with contentious comments about the Irish tricolour.
The director of Markethill-based victims' group FAIR had to apologise last week after suggesting a primary school in Co Tyrone was "the junior headquarters of IRA youth" after he confused an Italian national flag flying at the school for an Irish tricolour.
But just 48 hours after his embarrassing climb down, Mr Frazer continued his tirade against the tricolour on the social network site.
During an online discussion on the Irish national flag, Mr Frazer said the only time he likes seeing the tricolour is on "special days" when it is draped on a "sf/ira" coffin.
He posted: "The only good thing about that flag when it is use up here, is when some sf/ira per5son is in a box below it. (sic)."
He then added: "I dont have a problem with the tri-colour when they fly it in there own country, it is when the sf/ira scum use it up here in the UK i have an issue with it, except on special day's like when they have in on a coffin at a funeral i dont mind. (sic)."
Mr Frazer, who was in Downing Street yesterday to demand a quicker resolution to compensation from Libya for IRA victims, told the Democrat he was standing by his comments: "I have always said I respect the Irish flag in its proper place. Whenever you see it carried on the coffin of IRA men, it's a different message coming to us.
“The Irish flag should be treated with respect. If I was in Dublin I would stand for The Soldier's Song.
“But republicans have hijacked that flag and they have used it to butcher people from our community and people from the nationalist
“That's the flag they done it in the name of. So it's not the flag I'm getting at, it's the logic behind the use of it by republicans."
Mr Frazer said he understands why people from the nationalist community would be offended by his comments, but added: "I do see how people would be offended and why they should be.
“The point I'm trying to make is that my problem is not with the ordinary nationalist people or the flag, my problem is with republicans who use that flag to justify a murderous campaign. That's my stance on it.
“I put my hands up as I do see why people would be offended, but they're not the target and the flag is not the target."
Commenting on the reference to Sinn Fein members by Mr Frazer, a Sinn Fein spokesperson said: "Sadly this disgusting type of comment is typical and unsurprising coming from Mr Frazer. Mr Frazer, a failed would-be politician, has styled himself as a victims' campaigner while displaying no cognisance of the fact that victims come from all communities in the North.
“Comments such as this show Mr Frazer to be a deeply troubled person whose bigotry knows no lows."
Last week Mr Frazer, whose father was killed by the IRA in 1975, was forced into an apology after suggesting a rural primary school in Tyrone was "the junior headquarters of IRA Youth".
Mistaking the Italian national flag flying on the school for an Irish tricolour, he posted on Facebook: "I wonder do they also train the children in how to use weapons?"
He later apologised, saying: "It is understandable how this mistake could have been made. Looking at the photo you would think it is an Irish tricolour."

I think Mr. Frazer needs a visit from the grammar Nazi...

keano_afc

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

I think Mr. Frazer needs a visit from the grammar Nazi...

I think they're called the Real Grammar Nazis these days.

J Cheever Loophole

keano_afc wrote: »

I think they're called the Real Grammar Nazis these days.

They're not Nazis at all - it was a mistake over the flag - they're from the Isle of Man.

true

Nodin wrote: »

The UDR was mostly composed of the ex-members of the B-Specials.

"mostly" ???? Source / link ? What percentage of the thousands or tens of thousands of UDR men were previously B-specials? What percentage of UDR people ever committed a crime? What percentage of B-Specials ever committed a crime? Are you as quick to condemn the collusion between the Gardai and the PIRA as you are between the northern security services and terrorists there?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

J Cheever Loophole wrote: »

They're not Nazis at all - it was a mistake over the flag - they're from the Isle of Man.

Okay then, flag Nazis.

Nodin

true wrote: »

"mostly" ???? Source / link ? What percentage of the thousands or tens of thousands of UDR men were previously B-specials? What percentage of UDR people ever committed a crime? What percentage of B-Specials ever committed a crime?

I have to say its not often we have a cheer leader for a notorious sectarian militia on here. Have you not read anything about the UDR?

Thousands of B specials, by the looks of things. They did specifically try to get them to join.
http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/written_answers/1970/mar/23/ulster-defence-regiment-applicants#S5CV0798P0-06665

LordSutch

Nodin wrote: »

I have to say its not often we have a cheer leader for a notorious sectarian militia on here.

Are/were you not a cheerleader for the Provo's Nodin? just asking like.

Nodin

LordSutch wrote: »

Are/were you not a cheerleader for the Provo's Nodin? just asking like.

You're fully aware of my support of the campaign. If you wish to envisage me in a skirt and with pom-poms, thats your right in a democracy.

What has that to do with anything, by the way? Does a positive answer make the facts thus far mentioned about Willie Fraser and the UDR dissappear?

LordSutch

Nodin wrote: »

You're fully aware of my support of the campaign. If you wish to envisage me in a skirt and with pom-poms, thats your right in a democracy.

You dirty old beast 'in a skirt with pom-poms' (and a black beret & shades of course), oh the very thought!

Nodin wrote: »

What has that to do with anything, by the way?

"What has that got to do with anything" says the master of digging up unrelated posts . . .

Nodin wrote: »

Does a positive answer make the facts thus far mentioned about Willie Fraser and the UDR dissappear?

I still say post#19 is more or less my favourite take on the event, and 'damaged' Willie.

Nodin

LordSutch wrote: »

"What has that got to do with anything" says the master of digging up unrelated posts and attributing them to other threads.

You'll find however, that they're never unrelated. 'Painfully pertinent' if anything.

You have a thing for the UDR as well as Willie Fraser?

LordSutch

Nodin wrote: »

You'll find however, that they're never unrelated. 'Painfully pertinent' if anything.

Pertinent, in your head Nodin they are painfully pertinent in your head - This thread is about Willie frazer/flags, and not the Presidential election.

Nodin wrote: »

You have a thing for the UDR as well as Willie Fraser?

Anything for a rise, ay what Nodin, but I aint biting tonight

Dyr

I thought it was about dead UDR men?

HavingCrack

The UDR was a notorious sectarian militia and was recognised as such, even by the British army and RUC.

Here's some statistics from CAIN-http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/publicrecords/1973/subversion_in_the_udr.htm

LOSS OF ARMS AND AMMUNITION
11. Since the beginning of the current campaign the best single source of weapons (and the only significant source of modern weapons) for Protestant extremist groups has been the UDR. The details of UDR arms losses for 1972/3 are set out below:
a. 1972

LOST/STOLEN AT ARMOURY OR ON DUTY LOST/STOLEN AT HOME OR ON WAY TO HOME TOTALS SLR 102
-62 were recovered shortly after the Lurgan arms theft. 38 140
- 62 of these were recovered shortly after the Lurgan arms theft SMG 24
- 8 were recovered shortly after the Lurgan arms theft 4 28
- 8 were recovered shortly after the Lurgan arms theft PISTOL 7 15 22 TOTAL 135
( - 70 of these were recovered shortly after the Lurgan arms theft) 57 190
( - 70 of these were recovered shortly after the Lurgan arms theft. By comparison, Regular Army weapons losses in Northern Ireland in 1972 were 6 SLRs, 1 SMG and 9 pistols.
b. 1973 to end July

LOST/STOLEN AT ARMOURY OR ON DUTY LOST/STOLEN AT HOME OR ON WAY TO HOME TOTALS SLR 10 3 13 SMG 1 1 2 PISTOL 6 7 13 TOTAL 17 11 28 By comparison Regular Army weapons losses in Northern Ireland in the same period were 2 SLRs, nil SMGs and 6 pistols.


Furthermore out of 4, 791 applicants, 2, 424 were ex members of the B-Specials, notorious for their bigotry and sectarianism and disbanded for that very reason. Accepted applications numbered 2, 440 and 1, 423 were ex-B Specials, 58% of the total strength of the UDR.

Source: http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/written_answers/1970/mar/23/ulster-defence-regiment-applicants#S5CV0798P0-06665


Seriously, whatever about the RUC, how anyone could defend the UDR is beyond me.