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FAI & Limerick
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18-05-2012 7:43pm#1I see that the FAI have decided to veto a tournament planned for Thomond Park which included Celtic and Chelsea, god they must have a massive debt for the aviva:rolleyes: or else they are just a shower of clowns
http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/business/fai-block-top-soccer-friendlies-in-thomond-park-1-38559480
Comments
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First Barcelona and now this
FFS
Everything has to be in Dublin0 -
The international team played a couple of matches down in Thomond a few years ago. Not many people turned up as far as I remember.0
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The FAI were dead right in this case.
The Barcelona match would have been beneficial to Limerick FC, an Irish football team and one of the FAI's members which is why it was a disgrace to stop it.
The tournament mentioned above would have had no benefit to the FAI, Limerick FC or any football in the country. It would have merely kept the Chelsea and Celtic fans happy while making a few bob for Thomond Park Stadium, a few local busninesses and the organisers of the tournament.
Not only that but it would have actually clashed with league of Ireland fixtures (one on in limerick) and also would have meant the FAI would have been making competition for themselves in the process by having a rival tournament to one they are trying to set up.
The FAI's job is to ensure maximum profit for themselves, it's members and the football community of Ireland when it comes to these big friendlies and sanctioning the tournament in Thomond park would certainly not have done any of that.
The FAI got it badly wrong with the Limerick vs Barcelona game but (even though I hate to say it) they got it right here.
The opening line of the article and the one in the times today is very misleading too. "Limerick soccer fans" to miss out implys limerick fc fans when in fact it's more fans of soccer in limerick.
A good comparison here would be if the FAI or a private company decided to run a rugby event were they invited Super 14 teams like the crusaders and brumbies to compete in it as a money making initiative and had it on the same time as Heineken cup or Pro 12. The IRFU would never allow it.0 -
The FAI were dead right in this case.
The Barcelona match would have been beneficial to Limerick FC, an Irish football team and one of the FAI's members which is why it was a disgrace to stop it.
The tournament mentioned above would have had no benefit to the FAI, Limerick FC or any football in the country. It would have merely kept the Chelsea and Celtic fans happy while making a few bob for Thomond Park Stadium, a few local busninesses and the organisers of the tournament.
Not only that but it would have actually clashed with league of Ireland fixtures (one on in limerick) and also would have meant the FAI would have been making competition for themselves in the process by having a rival tournament to one they are trying to set up.
The FAI's job is to ensure maximum profit for themselves, it's members and the football community of Ireland when it comes to these big friendlies and sanctioning the tournament in Thomond park would certainly not have done any of that.
The FAI got it badly wrong with the Limerick vs Barcelona game but (even though I hate to say it) they got it right here.
The opening line of the article and the one in the times today is very misleading too. "Limerick soccer fans" to miss out implys limerick fc fans when in fact it's more fans of soccer in limerick.
A good comparison here would be if the FAI or a private company decided to run a rugby event were they invited Super 14 teams like the crusaders and brumbies to compete in it as a money making initiative and had it on the same time as Heineken cup or Pro 12. The IRFU would never allow it.
I'm afraid you are wrong, while an outside company are organising this, Limerick FC will be the "hosts" if you will, the outside company will make money but most importantly so will Limerick FC ( this has the added bonus of financial stability for a LOI side for the FAI ) this is a huge earner for Limerick FC who at the moment rely on the enormous genorosity of its chairman, it is also worth pointing out that Limerick FC is a not for profit football club, ( ie if a player gets sold the proceeds go back into the club), the club also has assumed a much larger role in the community than just a senior football side, it also runs a lot of programmes in prison and disadvanted areas of the city. The club is owned by the community for the first time in its existance.
It also has ambitions to get promoted and go on to compete in Europe ( what football club doesn't saysd you ) in order to achieve this revenue from outside matchday must be obtained, thomond park has been earmarked to do just that.
The responsibity of this debacle lies with John Delaney, one has to wonder is he harbouring grudges since the Barcelona debacle ( the word debacle and John Delaney just seem to go hand in hand don't they )
This has two massive possitives for Limerick
The financial security of the club
The spin off for the entire city
This tournmaent was to be telivised I believe, the exposure would have been HUGE...( ticket prices would have been very affordable )
I'm sorry if it sounds condesending, you may not be aware of all the facts, this is an enormous opportunity for a city our size to host such a tournament.
Get on to your local politician0 -
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The above is the first mention I've seen anywhere about any mention of limerick fc having an involvement in this. The club have stayed very quiet on it if it's the case and none of the articles about the event make any mention of a limerick fc involvement. It seems mad that limerick would also hold a tournament the same weekend they would have a top of the table clash with Longford town in Jackman park and it seems weird limerick fc would not involve themselves in any of the games.
I know of all the things you mentioned that Limerick FC have been doing outside of just match day and I know all about the achievements the club are aiming for.
I'm not saying you are wrong about Limerick FC's involvement in the above event but this is the first mention of it I have heard from anyone.
If Thomond park want to host an event like this and have it competing against the FAI I'm afraid doing it during the middle of our own season is probably the wrong time to do it. There is nothing any politicians can do about it.
If in fact limerick have an involvement then the FAI can do nothing to stop limerick playing any friendly in Thomond park against Chelsea, Celtic etc... As they have an agreement to be allowed play one match a year for the next 7 or 8 years in Thomond park without objection from the FAI.
If Limerick have decided to hold a tournament and not involve themselves in it then it is naivety of the highest order to think it would be sanctioned.0 -
How would it seem mad to have a tournament on the same weekend as a top of the table clash...that match kicks off on the friday night( with a projected attendance of 1,200 approx ), the other games need not kick off until saturday,( with a projected attendance of 26,000 ) if anything with more football supporters in town it might draw more supporters to a top of the table clash thus increasing gates
Has anybody in Limerick FC spoken publicly about objecting to tournament?
Get your head out of the sand you are simply wrong
This is a massive opportunity for everyone in Limerick
( Why is it people in this town take a negative slant on any initiative that benefits the local community, I recall a similar tone set on the great limerick run thread )
Do you know how many towns the size of Limerick will get to host a tournament this size...I would say none...yet you choose to take the side of the FAI!!!!0 -
Fair enough let's say it doesn't affect the loi match.
Limerick still knew after all the hassle they had to go through with the Barcelona thing that they could only play one big friendly involving themselves a year in thomond park as that was agreed between limerick FC and the Fai.
My head is certainly not in the sand. Yours seems to be though.
Regardless of how great for the city it is the fai are not there to see the city make money. Limerick might have got something out of it which would have been fantastic but there is ways to go about these things. The way put forward with no involvement on the field was the wrong way. Limerick knew the terms of holding a big friendly in limerick do trying to go about it a different way was more foolish by limerick.
I am a massive Limerick FC and the last people that I would side with are the FAI but looking at this instance on both sides the FAI are right.
If limerick FC want to make money then they need to stick with what they originally agreed and that was a glamour friendly in thomond park between limerick and another team. Not move the goal posts and try set up a tournament knowing full well they would not be allowed knowing the fai were setting up a similar one.0 -
How is my head in the sand?
We'll just say you are correct and Limerick FC have no involvement in this
The city benefits in a massive way ( this would be bigger than any heineken cup weekend, which this city needs, like any other city )
Limerick FC do not lose out in any way
FAI get to sanction a tournament that most likely would not be loss making ( correct me if I'm wrong but running a tournament in Aviva costs more than Thomond )
It is right not to include any league of ireland involvement ( which I suspect is the your biggest issue ) because no LOI side can compete with teams at this level, therefore the visiting team do not benefit.
A LOI side would not raise the profile of the competition
I do understand your point about being aware of the agreement re hosting a one off game, I can only assume that the organisers were well aware of this, but the FAI and in particular John Delaney can hardly claim any sort of high moral ground on this issue, there is no legitimate reason why the tournament couldn't take place.
And all that is assuming your are right that Limerick FC are not involved ( I strongly suspect you are wrong on this one)
So because League of Ireland fans will get the hump because they are not involved in a tournament this city gets denied a massive boost!!!! And you say my head is in the sand!!!!
By the way I am a LOI supporter myself....0 -
You seem to be paramount on saying that lfc are involved, what evidence do you have that says they are besides your own assumptions, compared to those of lfc fans who have a good bit of involvement with the club, and keep their ears to the ground.0
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FAI sold the "rights" to host any game in ireland with a certain amount of fans to Endemol?
So they cant let LOI teams do things like this or anyone for that matter.0 -
You seem to be paramount on saying that lfc are involved, what evidence do you have that says they are besides your own assumptions, compared to those of lfc fans who have a good bit of involvement with the club, and keep their ears to the ground.
Why would I do that, what difference does it make, let me outline two senarios
Senario 1
The city gets to host a very high profile tournament 2 weeks before Premiership kicks off, which would suggest you wouldn't be seeing reserve squads
Limerick FC benefit financially
Limerick City benefits financially
Limerick people get to see high quality football
The city gains from the tremendous buzz that accompanies these events
Senario 2
The city gets to host a very high profile tournament 2 weeks before the Premierships kicks off, which would suggest you wouldn't be seeing reserve squads
Limerick City benefits financially
Limerick people get to see high quality football
The city gains from the tremendous buzz that accompanies these events
I would prefer Senario 1, but I would take senario 2.
One problem FAI and JD. I will repeat there is no legitimate reason why this can't take place
Am I missing something....is there something wrong with the city hosting a very high profile tournament??????????0 -
Well, you are basically stating that Limerick FC are officially involved in some way, which if they aren't there is liability.0
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You could be well right about Limerick FCs involvement I haven't talk to anyone in the club so don't know.
Limerick FC not being involved in the tournament is not what would get me to disagree with it. If they held the tournament it would make no difference to me to be honest.
From the FAI's point of view they have massive debts on the aviva which they are struggling to service. If a tournament like this was to be sanctioned iT would benefit the city, thomond park and for arguments sake limerick FC but they would be shooting themselves in the foot.
Thomond park and the company involved went about it thee Total wrong way. If they had had some kind a loi Ireland team involved or the fai were getting something out of it then they would have had some chance of getting it sanctioned.
To try set up a tournament without the fai being I Volvo no matter were in Ireland it is will always be a non runner.
I go back to my example about the rugby. If myself and thomond park stadium ltd wanted to run a rugby tournament feature top club teams from Europe and or the southern hemisphere without the IRFU you being involved it would be shot down instantly.
Please excuse any misspellings etc... As I'm writing on an iPhone with stupid predictive txt.0 -
Silentcorner,
do you have any proof at all to back up your claim that Limerick FC are involved in the tournament and will benefit financially from it, as you have clearly stated in your post?0 -
You could be well right about Limerick FCs involvement I haven't talk to anyone in the club so don't know.
Limerick FC not being involved in the tournament is not what would get me to disagree with it. If they held the tournament it would make no difference to me to be honest.
From the FAI's point of view they have massive debts on the aviva which they are struggling to service. If a tournament like this was to be sanctioned iT would benefit the city, thomond park and for arguments sake limerick FC but they would be shooting themselves in the foot.
Thomond park and the company involved went about it thee Total wrong way. If they had had some kind a loi Ireland team involved or the fai were getting something out of it then they would have had some chance of getting it sanctioned.
To try set up a tournament without the fai being I Volvo no matter were in Ireland it is will always be a non runner.
I go back to my example about the rugby. If myself and thomond park stadium ltd wanted to run a rugby tournament feature top club teams from Europe and or the southern hemisphere without the IRFU you being involved it would be shot down instantly.
Please excuse any misspellings etc... As I'm writing on an iPhone with stupid predictive txt.
So your saying that the only reason this tournament can't go ahead is because the FAI are in debt as a result of a terrible deal they struck on the Aviva?
You have no idea of what the organisers have done to try and get this tournament hosted here and you have no idea if Limk FC are involved yet you are absolutely sure the FAI are correct...the FAI who are a disgrace of an organisation, it's no wonder rugby is kicking footballs but when it comes to spectators....
I don't get your argument about a rugby tournament but using your logic every Sailing club in the country must be objecting to the Vovlo Ocean Race because they do not benefit from Galway hosting it!!!!
You still haven't cleared up why you stated my head is in the sand...
To those of you who are asking what proof I have to back up my claim that Limk FC are involved, I am merely joining the dots
We are all aware that Limericks long term sustainability is tied to hosting big matches in Thomond Park ( correct me if I'm wrong )
When clubs do play here they do not want to play LOI clubs / selection ( correct me if I'm wrong )
Half empy stadiums are no good to anyone
This tournament ( whether Limk FC are involved or not ) is a HUGE opportunity for this city
THe only reason I can see for not allowing it is because it doesn't suit John Delaneys agenda, it is this backward mentality that would account for its terrible financial state....it seems his mentality is seeping through to supporters....
Jesus I can't believe I'm actually having to argue this....0 -
Precisely it doesn't suit John Delaney or the FAI's agenda it is sad but true.
The reason I am saying your head is in the sand is because in football matches that go ahead in this country need to be sanctioned by the FAI end of story. To think a tournament would be sanctioned by the FAI with no involvement of them means you must not know how football works in this country. I drew a parallel with the IRFU because both organizations work similarly with the FAI calling all the shots in football and the IRFU in rugby.
Even down to junior soccer in Limerick, you cannot hold a friendly match without first contacting the LDMC and getting them to organize the refs and give the go ahead.
Who it benefits is of no relevance.
Am I saying it's right for the FAI to monopolize football in this country? No
Am I saying the FAI have no care about whether Limerick City or Thomond Park makes money from it? Yes
Were Thomond Park Stadium and the organizer naive to think they could organize it and have it sanctioned easily without the FAI's involvement? Absolutely.
If they were smart about it they would have got Limerick FC to put it forward the right way. Organize it for a weekend that does not clash with LOI football and involve a LOI team. Crowds would not be affected one bit by having Celtic, Chelsea, Spurs and Limerick FC in it. They would have had a much better leg to stand on in this case.
Limerick FC's plan of sustainability does involve having big friendlies held in Thomond Park but it also involves having Limerick play in them.
The FAI calls all the shots end of story. If people don't like it (which I certainly don't) then they need to get the organization or the people in power out but there is no one willing to do it. Even down to the LOI teams. No one came out and supported Limerick in our case against the FAI because of the Barcelona farce because they were afraid of the consequences. The same argument is being made week in week out in Limerick about the LDMC. People complain about them but no one wants to stand up to them.
I'm not really trying to disagree with you here but more pointing out that it isn't as simple as you are making it sound.0 -
Precisely it doesn't suit John Delaney or the FAI's agenda it is sad but true.
The reason I am saying your head is in the sand is because in football matches that go ahead in this country need to be sanctioned by the FAI end of story. To think a tournament would be sanctioned by the FAI with no involvement of them means you must not know how football works in this country. I drew a parallel with the IRFU because both organizations work similarly with the FAI calling all the shots in football and the IRFU in rugby.
Even down to junior soccer in Limerick, you cannot hold a friendly match without first contacting the LDMC and getting them to organize the refs and give the go ahead.
Who it benefits is of no relevance.
Am I saying it's right for the FAI to monopolize football in this country? No
Am I saying the FAI have no care about whether Limerick City or Thomond Park makes money from it? Yes
Were Thomond Park Stadium and the organizer naive to think they could organize it and have it sanctioned easily without the FAI's involvement? Absolutely.
If they were smart about it they would have got Limerick FC to put it forward the right way. Organize it for a weekend that does not clash with LOI football and involve a LOI team. Crowds would not be affected one bit by having Celtic, Chelsea, Spurs and Limerick FC in it. They would have had a much better leg to stand on in this case.
Limerick FC's plan of sustainability does involve having big friendlies held in Thomond Park but it also involves having Limerick play in them.
The FAI calls all the shots end of story. If people don't like it (which I certainly don't) then they need to get the organization or the people in power out but there is no one willing to do it. Even down to the LOI teams. No one came out and supported Limerick in our case against the FAI because of the Barcelona farce because they were afraid of the consequences. The same argument is being made week in week out in Limerick about the LDMC. People complain about them but no one wants to stand up to them.
I'm not really trying to disagree with you here but more pointing out that it isn't as simple as you are making it sound.
In your origional post you clearly agreed with the FAI, I merely disagreed with you.
I know all about how football in this country works, and I don't feel the need to explain how I know, nor should I have to.
One man stands in the way of this tournament ( if you know as much as you claim to know about how football is run in this country you will understand the power that man exerts over the whole organisation )
Why he stands in the way is anyones guess, but to assume it is because no LOI football club are involved is extremely niave, the clubs mentioned would simply not want to play against a LOI side, there is no benefit to them at a time when they need decent preseason opposition, I have been to numerous friendlies of this nature and they are terribly affairs, mostly played in front of an empty stadium.
You have consistantly displayed your ignorance of how this has been handled, I can safely assume that you have no idea how the organisers have approached this, nor do you have any knowledge whether Limk FC are involved or not, I can also assume that this has been going on behind the scenes for a number of weeks or months, so there is probably a lot both of us are unaware of.
There was a piece in the Sunday Times about this, apparently the costs of running this in Aviva was 4 times as much as it would cost in Wembley stadium, if so it backs up my point that it is simply more cost effective to run this here. Then it becomes simple business, and if Limerick City benefits then we should all support it, if Limerick FC benefite then it becomes a no brainer, but yet you choose to claim the "The FAI are dead right in this case"( a direct quote from your origional post), which is why I got invoved in this thread.
This is dragging on Im embarrassed for us both!!!0 -
Ya fair enough I did agree with them in the beginning of this.
Just to simplify it my stance on it because neither of us know the full story.
Scenario A:
If an organisation tried to put together a rival tournament to the FAI I agree with them stopping it. Any money brought in for big tournaments needs to go towards football in this country and not lost to outside organisations. There is a full conversation on another message board were everyone agrees on this.
Scenario B:
If limerick fc was involved in this tournament I am disappointed a possible revenue stream was blocked for the club but at the same time I'm baffled at how they thought it would be allowed after all the hassle with the Barcelona game.
The city and what a great boost it may be for it has nothing to do with this argument or have anything to do with concerns of the FAI.0 -
Seems that the four team tournament was to be televised as well. Would have been great to see such an event in Limerick. There are a number of similar events held late pre season each year with English clubs taking part in four team tournaments in Holland, England, America, the far East etc. Usually there are big crowds for these tournaments and generally it is first team squads that are brought.
So basically Thomond Park would have hosted the current Scottish Champions, the Current Champions of Europe plus two other teams. Going by past tournaments one of the four teams is usually a team local to the area the tournament is being held in, so that would support those who are saying Limerick FC would have been involved.
Would be a pretty cool two to three day event to have in Limerick tbh. Then again it would have been great to have had Barcelona in Limerick as well. But I guess having such a tournament anywhere but in the Aviva stadium does not suit the agenda of one man.0 -
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Hi guys , there is some truth in most of this thread ,
Can't say how but the following is how it is
Fai John Delaney fell out with the organisers of the proposed Dublin event by try to charge 500k for rental of aviva
Wembley with London as a catchment area costs less than a third of this
Madness in the current climate
Now Delaney is trying to stop the tournament in Limerick from going ahead why because he thinks he can ,
But he's up against some big hitters now
So watch this space in the next few days don't be surprised when they turn around and allow it to go ahead
Limerick fc have no part in this
The big picture is this is planned for the next 4 years and could bring much needed good pr and money to the local community 60 million or so
Surely this is bigger than just making money for one club
I think it's a win win .all the way0 -
So the FAI basically made a balls of the tournament in Dublin. Fair enough that's a feck up by them.
I still stand by though that money coming in from these kinds of tournaments needs to be going back into Irish football and not lost to private and Forgien companies. Irish football is currently built on a deck of cards and more lost revenue to Irish football is detrimental.
In saying that Delaney should be sacked for making a balls of the tournament in Dublin meaning a huge loss in revenue for Irish football.0 -
They are in serious debt and JD himself is in the blender and it's about to be switched on !!!
The euros is the only thing keeping him there at the moment
He is surrounded by puppets
But Mark my words he is on the way out
No matter what happens in Poland
What ever about the money from the tournament going to the club locally
The fai has done nothing but prevent the club LFC with Barcelona
And now thomand park with this tournament
On the grounds that it might compete with a non existent event of theirs in Dublin" it' would be funny if it wasn't illegal
You Can't Prevent fair competition
That is the law
And I think Delaney is about to find that out0 -
Well I hope you're right about the decision being overturned, kizmax.0
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Full page in yesterday's times also Fridays mail and all the big hitters are onside tosee this tournament go ahead
And as the times said they havedep pockets and long memories0 -
If there is no Irish team playing and it was a private deal, what say do the FAI actually have? I mean they arent going to ban celtic and chesea are they?0
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That's the whole issue , they have no say when there are no Irish teams playing
They now know that everyone in Limerick also knows this and they are coming up with
A phantom event in the aviva which has no bearing on Limerick anyway as you cant stop an event on the grounds of competition0 -
The FAI have total control over any football match that take place in the Republic of Ireland. Be that a friendly between LOI clubs, Junior Clubs, Senior Clubs, Forgien Clubs, International teams or competitive matches.
If they did not have this control then what is to stop lets say Celtic or Man U for example setting up friendlies in Ireland every year between themselves and european and english teams to make a handy few bob for themselves which in turn would be massive revenue lost out on for Irish football. It opens up teams from other countries to take even more advantage over our struggling leagues as it is and would absolutely bleed Irish football dry.
We are not like a lot of leagues. We are continously struggling with poor crowds and revenue and need as much protection as possible.0 -
The FAI have total control over any football match that take place in the Republic of Ireland. Be that a friendly between LOI clubs, Junior Clubs, Senior Clubs, Forgien Clubs, International teams or competitive matches.
If they did not have this control then what is to stop lets say Celtic or Man U for example setting up friendlies in Ireland every year between themselves and european and english teams to make a handy few bob for themselves which in turn would be massive revenue lost out on for Irish football. It opens up teams from other countries to take even more advantage over our struggling leagues as it is and would absolutely bleed Irish football dry.
We are not like a lot of leagues. We are continously struggling with poor crowds and revenue and need as much protection as possible.
Protection from what?0 -
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Protection from what?
More and more revenue being lost to the League and Irish football as a whole. The precendent I mention above would leave Irish football without a leg to stand on and there would be no need to involve Irish football at any level in any money making when it comes to big glamour friendlies. Gone would be the days of Shamrock Rovers vs Real Madrid, Cork City vs Sunderland, Cobh Ramblers vs Manchester Untied, Waterford vs Liverpool FC.0
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