Young people and motor bikes

qrrgprgua

Sad to see the deaths today outside killala. Last year I nearly killed a guy on a bike, he tried overtaking while I was during right he just missed me. Indicator one.. turning right and up he comes.

Can I ask all lads out there with bikes.. Ride your bike as if you were driving a car.. The Line in the middle of the road is not your personal motorway. Respect the speed limit, Keep your distance and us motorists should keep our distance. Just because your ride a bike does not mean rules of the road don't apply. They apply to all.

Don't know the circumstances of the Kilalla accident. Heart goes out to families.

puzzle factory

you will find 99% of the time it was the car drivers fault.

Avns1s

qrrgprgua wrote: »

Sad to see the deaths today outside killala. Last year I nearly killed a guy on a bike, he tried overtaking while I was during right he just missed me. Indicator one.. turning right and up he comes.

Can I ask all lads out there with bikes.. Ride your bike as if you were driving a car.. The Line in the middle of the road is not your personal motorway. Respect the speed limit, Keep your distance and us motorists should keep our distance. Just because your ride a bike does not mean rules of the road don't apply. They apply to all.

Don't know the circumstances of the Kilalla accident. Heart goes out to families.

I agree. It's a terrible thing to happen but given the reported ages, I would doubt they were using the white line as their motorway.

Funnily enough, I haven't observed the same level of what I would call motorcyclist dangerous driving lately as I have in the past. Perhaps it's either the recession causing the outmigration of that particular age group which is an equal tragedy, or just that people are getting some sense which would be a good thing.

Everyone feels invincible on the road. However, if you're on a bike, and something goes wrong, you have little chance. Whether it's your fault or someone elses makes little difference.

PogMoThoin

qrrgprgua wrote: »

Sad to see the deaths today outside killala. Last year I nearly killed a guy on a bike, he tried overtaking while I was during right he just missed me. Indicator one.. turning right and up he comes.

Can I ask all lads out there with bikes.. Ride your bike as if you were driving a car.. The Line in the middle of the road is not your personal motorway. Respect the speed limit, Keep your distance and us motorists should keep our distance. Just because your ride a bike does not mean rules of the road don't apply. They apply to all.

Don't know the circumstances of the Kilalla accident. Heart goes out to families.

Sorry, pretty prejudiced if you, as a biker I have to post this.
http://www.iam.org.uk/news/latest-news/1031-sorry-mate-i-didnt-see-you

Most accidents involving bikes are caused by other motorists not giving proper caution. Near the line in the middle of the road is where there is less debris and most grip.

qrrgprgua

PogMoThoin wrote: »

Sorry, pretty prejudiced if you, as a biker I have to post this.
http://www.iam.org.uk/news/latest-news/1031-sorry-mate-i-didnt-see-you

Most accidents involving bikes are caused by other motorists not giving proper caution. Near the line in the middle of the road is where there is less debris and most grip.

Well I can only speak from my personal experience. When I nearly hit the
biker he was overtaking on a stretch of road that did not allow drivers to overtake. So I go to turn right which was my right of way, check mirrors, during right and I just miss the tail of his bike. White circle below would by my car and black line the biker. Was he in the right? He could have wait 30 seconds when the road allows users to overtake.

voz es

qrrgprgua wrote: »

Well I can only speak from my personal experience. When I nearly hit the
biker he was overtaking on a stretch of road that did not allow drivers to overtake. So I go to turn right which was my right of way, check mirrors, during right and I just miss the tail of his bike. White circle below would by my car and black line the biker. Was he in the right? He could have wait 30 seconds when the road allows users to overtake.

Thats an individual case, most often its the car driver who is wrong, its the main reason i would not have a bike, your at such mercy of others mistakes. A wee tip in a car could be fatal on a bike.

bandit197

qrrgprgua wrote: »

Sad to see the deaths today outside killala. Last year I nearly killed a guy on a bike, he tried overtaking while I was during right he just missed me. Indicator one.. turning right and up he comes.

Can I ask all lads out there with bikes.. Ride your bike as if you were driving a car.. The Line in the middle of the road is not your personal motorway. Respect the speed limit, Keep your distance and us motorists should keep our distance. Just because your ride a bike does not mean rules of the road don't apply. They apply to all.

Don't know the circumstances of the Kilalla accident. Heart goes out to families.

What is this thread even doing in this forum?

Your opening post is full of generalisations, is insulting to bikers and is highly inappropriate.
Did you use the tragedy that happened yesterday to come in here on your high horse spouting nonsense?
You speak of young people on bikes, what about the older generation, should they not be careful too. What age does your classification of 'young' begin?

This thread should be in the Motorbikes forum, we would see how far you would get with it in there.

qrrgprgua

voz es wrote: »

Thats an individual case, most often its the car driver who is wrong, its the main reason i would not have a bike, your at such mercy of others mistakes. A wee tip in a car could be fatal on a bike.

I disagree... Sorry I see to many bikers (usually young men) who don't know the dangers. If you ride your bike as it it were a car things would be different. How many times have I been passed out by bikers travelling over 100km speed limit. Sure if other cars can be in your blind spot bikers are in an even worse situation.

The problem is that many bikers know they are not Cars and can manoeuvre better than cars and take advantage of this. If I had a euro for every time I see bikers riding the centre of the road during traffic I would be a rich many or using the hard shoulder.

Not to generalise because I know of many bikers who follow the rules of the road and have never had accidents, the key is not to take risks.

The Big Red Button

Well the thread title is pretty irrelevant in the context of this particular accident - the couple who were killed were in their fifties!

And no, you don't know the circumstances of the accident, so it's quite unfair to imply that the driver of the motorbike was at fault.

For what it's worth (as a car driver, I've never been on a motorbike), I've driven tens of thousands of miles over a number of years, both in built-up areas and on motorways etc, and I've very rarely if ever come across cases of motorbikes driving recklessly. Whereas, most times I go on the road, I'll see car drivers acting dangerously and without due caution.

I would imagine that the vulnerability of being out in the open on a motorbike makes the drivers act with a lot more care. Any reports I've heard of conclude that the vast majority of motorbike accidents are caused by other road users.

PogMoThoin

Bad driving is not exclusive to the young or to those on motorbikes. I'm on the N5 everyday, this is what I see. The standard of driving in this country is pathetic

Mr "I'm important" Audi A6/Merc driver, drives right up peoples rears without due caution, then overtakes on the traffic islands.

Old Biddy in the family Avensis, driving a car she's not able for, only driving because it's a big road to Castlebar. Blocks the road by forcing other cars to drive at 75kph. Hasn't a clue what to do when she gets to the first roundabout.

Farmer guy in the Berlingo van drives in the hard shoulder at 50kph because he's only going 3 miles down the road.

These people wouldn't get away with this in Dublin, but they expect to get away with it down here.

daenerysstormborn3

Completely inappropriate thread. Full of generalisations. Completely insensitive. I agree with bandit, you seem to have used a tragic accident of which the full details are not known to have a rant about bikers. Go on over to the motorbike forum if you wish to rant and rave about bikers.

Don't forget 2 people lost their lives, families and friends have been left with an empty space in their lives - so often this gets forgotten when people decide to speculate.

You have provided anecdotal evidence about a near miss. I am a biker, drive my bike every single day regardless of weather, I do not even own a car. Do you have any idea how much anecdotal evidence I could provide to start the car v bike argument? This is not the place.

qrrgprgua

pixiebean22 wrote: »

You have provided anecdotal evidence about a near miss. I am a biker, drive my bike every single day regardless of weather, I do not even own a car. Do you have any idea how much anecdotal evidence I could provide to start the car v bike argument? This is not the place.

Its not anecdotal.. Should a biker overtake on this part of the road?

And I didn't generalise.

daenerysstormborn3

This thread is completely inappropriate. You should start a thread in either the motorbikes forum or one of the motoring forums to address your question. And leave out the generalisations.

qrrgprgua

pixiebean22 wrote: »

This thread is completely inappropriate. You should start a thread in either the motorbikes forum or one of the motoring forums to address your question. And leave out the generalisations.

I am hoping it makes people aware. Its posted in MAYO because 2 people on a motor bike died not far from me.


Here are some facts to consider..

http://www.motorbiketraining.net/information.html

• Road Safety Strategy reports that the motorcyclist fatality rate in Ireland is the highest in Europe. According to OECD figures, a motorcyclist is two to three times more likely to be killed in Ireland than in other European countries
• Motorcycles represent less than 2% of the total vehicle fleet yet motorcyclists account for 12% of road fatalities and 10% of road injuries each year.
• In terms of fatality rates per 10,000 registered motorcycles, Ireland was found to have the second highest rate amongst the twenty countries compared.
• Motorcyclists are vulnerable road users. In 2007, 33 motorcyclists were killed and a further 410 were injured on Ireland?s roads, accounting for 10% of all fatalities, and almost 5% of all casualties resulting from road collisions in the country. This is of particular concern since motorcycles accounted for less than 2% of all licensed vehicles in the Republic in that same year.

daenerysstormborn3

qrrgprgua wrote: »

I am hoping it makes people aware. Its posted in MAYO because 2 people on a motor bike died not far from me.


Here are some facts to consider..

http://www.motorbiketraining.net/information.html

• Road Safety Strategy reports that the motorcyclist fatality rate in Ireland is the highest in Europe. According to OECD figures, a motorcyclist is two to three times more likely to be killed in Ireland than in other European countries
• Motorcycles represent less than 2% of the total vehicle fleet yet motorcyclists account for 12% of road fatalities and 10% of road injuries each year.
• In terms of fatality rates per 10,000 registered motorcycles, Ireland was found to have the second highest rate amongst the twenty countries compared.
• Motorcyclists are vulnerable road users. In 2007, 33 motorcyclists were killed and a further 410 were injured on Ireland?s roads, accounting for 10% of all fatalities, and almost 5% of all casualties resulting from road collisions in the country. This is of particular concern since motorcycles accounted for less than 2% of all licensed vehicles in the Republic in that same year.

Makes people aware of what exactly?

I don't need to consider "facts". I drive a bike everyday I know what driving on the roads in Ireland is like.

Your statistics are 5 years old. They also provide no "facts" as to what cause the fatalities - but you're not interested in the cause, you're just interested in the percentages. If motorcycles account for 10% of all road fatalities, then what accounts for the other 90%? Oh yes, all of the other road users.

It may be helpful to you if you educate yourself on motorbikes before making the sweeping statements contained in pretty much all of your posts thus far.

The Big Red Button

qrrgprgua wrote: »

I am hoping it makes people aware. Its posted in MAYO because 2 people on a motor bike died not far from me.

An accident in which two Germans in their fifties died (and where we don't know who/what caused the accident) - and you start a thread criticising young Irish motorbike drivers?

PogMoThoin

Just to add. I drove a bike around Galway city for 2 years but sods of turf is the real reason why I don't use one in Mayo/Roscommon. Yes, I've seen turf on the road so many times it scares the life out of me. It should be a very serious offence (on a par with dangerous driving) to let something fall off your trailer, just because they couldn't care less and are too lazy to ensure it doesn't happen. It's maddening.

voz es

qrrgprgua wrote: »

I disagree... Sorry I see to many bikers (usually young men) who don't know the dangers. If you ride your bike as it it were a car things would be different. How many times have I been passed out by bikers travelling over 100km speed limit. Sure if other cars can be in your blind spot bikers are in an even worse situation.

The problem is that many bikers know they are not Cars and can manoeuvre better than cars and take advantage of this. If I had a euro for every time I see bikers riding the centre of the road during traffic I would be a rich many or using the hard shoulder.

Not to generalise because I know of many bikers who follow the rules of the road and have never had accidents, the key is not to take risks.

You say young men but its hard to identify a person in leathers and a helmet.
I dont like when some bikers act the prat on the roads id have propally agreed with you that there are a few idots out there who get carried away with the buzz of driveing a motorbike and take serous risks.

What really irks me about your post is that it's a representation of those who really have not got a clue about something see a few examples and think they are an expert.

Life is not black and white i'm afriad

note to your self: you described taking a right turn in one of your earlier posts, you never said you indicated do you know how many crashes are caused that way? your a liability on teh road you are

sundodger5

qrrgprgua wrote: »

So I go to turn right which was my right of way, check mirrors, during right and I just miss the tail of his bike.

What right of way do you think you have turning right? it sounds to me from the way you describe that you failed to see the biker overtaking in your mirror. He made it all the way past you which means at some point in your right turn he was right beside your door.
As posted earlier most accidents between car and bike are due to the car driver failing to see the bike.
You have just proved the point

qrrgprgua

sundodger5 wrote: »

What right of way do you think you have turning right? it sounds to me from the way you describe that you failed to see the biker overtaking in your mirror. He made it all the way past you which means at some point in your right turn he was right beside your door.
As posted earlier most accidents between car and bike are due to the car driver failing to see the bike.
You have just proved the point

I did check my mirror, and I did indicate,, Also there was a double line (so bicker should not overtake.

Problem I was doing 60km in a 60km zone and about to turn right and he overtook while I was turning.

Lucky for him he just missed me, but he was 100% in the wrong and reckless.


http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/good-driving-practice/overtaking.html

You must not overtake when

A traffic sign or road marking prohibits it.

The orange car below would have been me, the bike overtook me while I was turning into the box and continued one..

daenerysstormborn3

Your posts in relation to the picture you posted on the previous page are hard to understand. The picture you posted looks like a 2+1 road and you were in the inside lane and the biker was in the outside lane. I can't figure out from the picture where you were supposedly turning right.

qrrgprgua

The one above is better,as the actual one on googlemaps is hard to cut and paste. Should a biker overtake the orange car above while he is turning?

daenerysstormborn3

Of course not but that diagram you've posted differs completely from the picture you posted earlier on. The picture you posted earlier on looks like the start of a 2+1 road as there are no road markings to indicate that the inside lane is actually a recessed lane for a right turn.

Going on your posts here you seem to have a real chip on your shoulder about bikers so it's hard to take your posts as being 100% truthful and not merely a platform to have a rant and a moan.

If in fact the situation you describe did actually happen it could've been for any reason, such as:

- the biker was just being extremely careless and didn't notice you had your indicator on until the last minute and to save himself he swerved around you in a dangerous manner - can happen to any road user when their mind isn't 100% on the road,
- the biker was filtering through the traffic and you did not use your indicator to enter the recess lane to turn right and he had to swerve around you when you switched lanes - can also happen to any road user,
- the biker was also taking the same right turn as you and merely filtered up your right hand side to take the turn (being able to take the turn in gaps of traffic that a car would not be able to) - is generally a bike specific occurrence because we can fit into smaller spaces.

You also need to understand that there is a difference between overtaking and filtering, from some of your posts it's obvious to me that you are referring to instances where bikers were in fact filtering but you seem to think that they were overtaking illegally.

And as I said already, this is anecdotal evidence, everybody has stories of another road user doing something which could have potentially ended badly. Coincidentally the diagram you posted is relevant to an RTA I had 4 weeks ago. I was coming from the same direction as the blue car at the bottom of the picture and a man in a car pulled out of the side road looking in the other direction and hit me head on and threw me and my bike 20 metres or so up the wrong side of the road. I was travelling 40kms under the speed limit as a car ahead of me had just turned up the side road that he was exiting from. I have a fractured ankle and my bike is a write-off.

My advice is simple, don't tar all bikers with the same brush just because you allegedly had one bad experience and don't think that posting up statistics of road deaths and advice on how to drive on Irish roads will be met with kind words by the biking community. Also, bear in mind that feigning sympathy for 2 bikers killed on the road is not an appropriate way to begin this kind of discussion and you would be better off taking it to the motorbike forum in future.

qrrgprgua

pixiebean22 wrote: »

Going on your posts here you seem to have a real chip on your shoulder about bikers so it's hard to take your posts as being 100% truthful and not merely a platform to have a rant and a moan.

I have no chip about bikers,, I haven't had any accidents with them... but sadly in mayo alone I have seen 4 accidents.. Its not a rant and a moan,, its their lives.


I love the "the biker was filtering through the traffic" no it was 8am an there was no traffic.. the guy was in a hurry. The incident actually happened as I was turning into work and it was the security guy that said I have a lucky escape and there were cars behind me going into work so they also saw the near miss.

There really aren't that many motor cyclists around, Some guys at work have them, but only take them out if the weather is fine, otherwise they get a lift or use a car.

daenerysstormborn3

qrrgprgua wrote: »

its their lives.

Exactly :rolleyes:

Your story has a few holes in it. You have not taken on board anything I have said from a biker's perspective. You are using this accident as your personal platform to lambast bikers. Good luck

sundodger5

I will go back to my original point you were turning right, so no right of way
see here
http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/junctions-roundabouts/junctions.html
Also if you checked your mirror properly you would have seen the biker.
An indicator does not give you the right to turn regardless.

oscarBravo

sundodger5 wrote: »

I will go back to my original point you were turning right, so no right of way
see here
http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/junctions-roundabouts/junctions.html
Also if you checked your mirror properly you would have seen the biker.
An indicator does not give you the right to turn regardless.

Sorry, but as an ex-biker with a lot of sympathy for the crap that bikers have to deal with, that's a completely spurious point.

Right-turn filter lanes are protected by median strips leading up to them. It should be inherently safe to move to the right into a right-turn lane without having to worry about someone overtaking you, because there are no circumstances in which it could ever possibly be legal to overtake someone on the approach to such a turning lane.

I'm all for educating car drivers to the need to keep an eye out for bikes, but pick your battles - when a biker does something stupid and illegal, call him out on it. If you try to make everything the car's fault, even when the bike is in the wrong, you completely undermine the message.