My solution to drink driving laws and rural isolation.

later12

lazygal wrote: »

If people chose to live in more isolated areas, they can't expect the same services and facilities as more populated areas.

Oh for goodness sake. Are you eleven? These people are typically bachelor farmers in their sixties and seventies. They have been around a lot longer than you. Moving to large urban centres to take toilet paper degrees was not always a viable option for young Irish people; many of these men wouldn't even have had free secondary school education open to them.

Milk & Honey

hairyprincess wrote: »

If you can afford to go out drinking then you can afford a taxi home.

Simple as.

Do you know the price of drink? After buying a few pints very few people would have the money left for a taxi. Especially if they go out drinking a few nights a week. People generally have a choice. They can pay the publican or the taxi driver but not both.

DonkeyStyle \o/

I'd say use golf carts instead, hazard lights on the front and back, large weatherproof pillows all around it like a bumper car.
It'd never work in this country though, the cart would fall into a pot-hole and never be seen again.

hondasam

SafeSurfer wrote: »

What do you think?

I feel sorry for people in this situation but drink driving is a big no for everyone.
I think pub owners should arrange something for their customers and I know some who do especially at Christmas.
My own local is ten miles from the nearest town and you can get a taxi from there but it would make it a very expensive night and not worth it for a few pints.

hairyprincess

Milk & Honey wrote: »

Do you know the price of drink? After buying a few pints very few people would have the money left for a taxi. Especially if they go out drinking a few nights a week. People generally have a choice. They can pay the publican or the taxi driver but not both.

Well lets look at the choices shall we,
(a) don't go out,

(b) sacrifice one of the few nights a week that they go out so they will have the money,

(c) drink less, or not at all.

If a member of your family was killed by a drunk driver would you take the fact that they could afford to go to the pub and drink but they couldn't afford a taxi as an excuse? Would you really be ok with that?

Going to the pub is not a necessity. Getting your priorities right and not putting peoples lives at risk is.

Rothko

MadYaker wrote: »

Because there are no taxis...

Yes, there are. I live in a rural area and I often use a taxi.

Milk & Honey

hairyprincess wrote: »

(b) sacrifice one of the few nights a week that they go out so they will have the money,



.

Then the person can't afford to drink, so there goes your argument.

hairyprincess

Milk & Honey wrote: »

Then the person can't afford to drink, so there goes your argument.

If they refrain from going out one of the nights in the week that they go out they will have the money to drink and get a taxi the other nights. Everybody is happy

SouthTippBass

I cycle to and from the pub and shall continue to do so. I dont see any harm in it.

Micky Dolenz

Drink more and operate heavy machinery.

Makes perfect sense.

mikemac1

SafeSurfer wrote: »

However. My idea is to allow a higher drink driving limit for people driving tractors. Say to double the current limit so someone driving a tractor could have 2 to 3 pints and still drive home.

What do you think?

Have you ever driven a tractor?
A modern tractor with power steering has very sensitive steering, you'd put a wheel into the ditch easily all the while you're bouncing around

And the brakes are far worse then a cars, it's just impossible to stop in the same distance

A car is easier to drive, even after a few pints

BornToKill

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I was driving home from the pub last night after having a couple of pints while waiting for a chinese.

Try this:

1. Order the chinese delivered.
2. Have the couple of pints.
3. Get a lift home with the delivery guy; he's going there anyway.

Simples.

jaffacakesyum

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Drink driving is a reality every night of the week all over the country. Probably even more so given the closure of rural Garda stations.

As for walking home along unlit winding country roads even if you are wearing a high vis jacket I am convinced that driving after a couple of pints is statistically safer.

If you're going to claim something is "statistically safer" then at least provide made up statistics or something :pac:

Seriously though, I don't think walking home at the side of the road wearing a high-vis jacket is more dangerous then drink driving??!! Surely I'm not the only one who thinks this

The idea of a higher drink driving limit for tractors, maybe below a certain engine size is because they can only travel at about 30 kmph.

Tractors are already classified differently than cars for example, 16 year olds can drive tractors. Why not acknowledge the fact that the chances of being involved in an accident in a vehicle with a much lower maximum speed is less than that for a standard car.

When was the last time somebody was killed driving a tractor after a couple of pints?

With all due respect, the idea is a stupid one. You want to raise the drink limit for a heavier, arguably more dangerous piece of machinary because it goes slower? I don't care if it only goes at 30mph. If there's a drunk behind the wheel it could cause some serious damage.

Kevin Irving wrote: »

A bit ridiculous that drink cycling is illegal, not much of a chance of injuring anyone but yourself.

I used to feel this way and I admit I have cycled home after a few pints before (never drunk but nonetheless, I have done it). But if you think about it, drunk cycling could cause just as much damage as drunk driving. If you cycle dangerously, not taking into account observation etc. as you normally would you could cause a serious car accident.

johndaman66

It would seem that the OP is almost implying that car drivers from rural areas have automatic access to tractors. This is very much not the case unfortunately.

Helix

here's an idea of how to solve the drink driving problem... DONT FCUKING DRINK IF YOU'RE DRIVING

Ride a bike, if you're not that fit get an electrically assised one!

As long as you don't drink in excess, you'll be perfectly OK to ride a bike, the greatest risk would be being run into by your mate who drinks and drives home.

Markcheese

Used to live within walking distance of a small village on a v.quiet road. I couldn't walk to the pub fri/sat evenings cos of the pissed drivers using the back road as a rat run to avoid the Gardai..
There's usually a local mini bus, the price of a pint should get most people home, a little organisation, or 1 lad in 5 being designated driver... Pub prob has to organise it...

sh1tstirrer

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

I don't know how anyone can justify drink driving. I don't give a sh1t if you're in a rural area. It's an incredibly stupid and selfish thing to do.

As for the OP's suggestion, wtf?

You obviously weren't around or old enough to know that it was common practice in the eighties and before. It was a form of lunacy but was common practice back then.

jaffacakesyum

sh1tstirrer wrote: »

You obviously weren't around or old enough to know that it was common practice in the eighties and before. It was a form of lunacy but was common practice back then.

What's your point?

I know it was common practice years ago. It's still stupid and selfish.

Wildlife Actor

Why not have a very low limit (glass of wine/half pint of beer) for normal driving but a higher one (say 2/3 pints) provided you drive under 20mph/30kmph and without passengers?

You won't kill anyone at that speed (except yourself if you drive over a cliff) and while enforcement is a little bit more inconvenient, it just means that they guards have to have hairdryers at their checkpoints. If the government ever had the guts to face up to car manufacturers, they could easily have inbuilt speed recorders that would remove the need even for the hairdryers.

It's easy to say "no drink driving" in absolute terms, and to say that that slogan is too simplistic is neither to disrespect those who have been killed/injured by drunken drivers nor to insult their families. Absolute rules are rare and generally not a good idea. Take speed. Speed is a massive factor in road deaths and injuries (presumably greater than drink though I don't have the stats) but we don't reduce all speed limits to 50kmph. There are other factors to consider.

In the current discussion one of those factors is that elderly people in rural areas often don't have any social outlet other than the pub. Maybe they should but often they simply don't (and maybe we all should leave three hours earlier and drive from Dublin to Cork at 50kmph but we don't). And as regards taxis, a taxi is not just a matter of cost for pensioners (and remember a rural trip will always be longer and more expensive). It's also availability. You're often waiting up to 45 mins as the taxi driver or two will have a queue.

mikemac1

Ah the rural hackney

May take an hour to get to you and it's pretty certain you'll be sharing so you do a lap of the area

Driver loads up the fares but still charges you taxi prices

sh1tstirrer wrote: »

You obviously weren't around or old enough to know that it was common practice in the eighties and before. It was a form of lunacy but was common practice back then.

Don't need to go that far back

Common practice in the nineties too

sh1tstirrer

Helix wrote: »

here's an idea of how to solve the drink driving problem... DONT FCUKING DRINK IF YOU'RE DRIVING

Unless it doesn't have alcohol in it Sherlock.

christmas2012

Its dangerous enough driving without having your senses dulled with drink better to be aware so you can handle any hazards coming your way or obstructions in the road

hondasam

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

I know it was common practice years ago. It's still stupid and selfish.

Speeding is also stupid but it doesn't stop us doing it.

forfuxsake

SouthTippBass wrote: »

I cycle to and from the pub and shall continue to do so. I dont see any harm in it.

There are over 2000 people in prison in Poland for this offence. Apparently it cause a lot of fatal accidents. Cars swerve to avoid you and hit other cars

http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/poland-says-okay-to-jailing-drink-cyclists-21213/

jaffacakesyum

hondasam wrote: »

Speeding is also stupid but it doesn't stop us doing it.

Yep, having lost a friend to a boyracer speeding 100km/hr on a 50km/hr road, I know just how stupid speeding is.

Sorry, I just really detest people who speed or drink drive. And there's no exceptions for me for that. It's not a case of "ah but me personally if i have 3 or 4 pints I'm grand, others wouldn't be able to drive with that in them but I can" or "ah but I'm a good driver and I only go 20 or 30km/hr over the limit". I don't care. Laws are there for a reason. When they're broken, it's peoples lives at risk.

Chuck Stone

What's the law on mobility scooters?

Can you be smashed and drive them?

forfuxsake

jaffacakesyum wrote: »

Yep, having lost a friend to a boyracer speeding on a 100km/hr on a 50km/hr road, I know just how stupid speeding is.

Sorry, I just really detest people who speed or drink drive. And there's no exceptions for me for that. It's not a case of "ah but me personally if i have 3 or 4 pints I'm grand, others wouldn't be able to drive with that in them but I can" or "ah but I'm a good driver and I only go 20 or 30km/hr over the limit". I don't care. Laws are there for a reason. When they're broken, it's peoples lives at risk.

yup. Every fúcker spews the same vomit 'I drive better after a few lines of charles and a bottle of jack d'

People forget the face that nobody has had their first crash until they have their first crash.

AhInFairness

SafeSurfer wrote: »

I was driving home from the pub last night after having a couple of pints while waiting for a chinese. Before I get lectured about being irresponsible the pub is on the age of a small village with deserted country roads about 2 miles from my house.

So why can't you walk? If the roads are deserted and its only two miles why do you need to get behind the wheel of a car after drinking alcohol?

We have a serious f*cking problem with alcohol in this country. The "poor aul lads in the country" argument makes me sick. The fact that you live in a rural area does nto entitle you to drink and drive. If the local pub wants to keep their business they can provide transport.

People who condone drink driving in any capacity are scumbags.

Kevin Irving

Kevin Irving wrote: »

A bit ridiculous that drink cycling is illegal, not much of a chance of injuring anyone but yourself.

Depends on how much you've drunk!
But if you're too pissed to ride a bike, chances are you wouldn't be able to walk in a straight line either, so you're screwed both ways.

DonkeyStyle \o/

DonkeyStyle \o/ wrote: »

I'd say use golf carts instead, hazard lights on the front and back, large weatherproof pillows all around it like a bumper car.
It'd never work in this country though, the cart would fall into a pot-hole and never be seen again.

They're classed as motor vehicles and you'll get done!

Aka Ishur

Love nor Money wrote: »

Why not have a very low limit (glass of wine/half pint of beer) for normal driving but a higher one (say 2/3 pints) provided you drive under 20mph/30kmph and without passengers?

Cool if you stand there and let me hit you at 30kph i'll fund your campaign to get the law changed.

Capt'n Midnight

The real problem is ribbon development. If all the houses/pubs were in the village then no one would have to drive.

Pubs could run a B&B

or setup a local drunk tank

People could drink at home

take it in turns to be the designated driver

stay with friends / relations in town


Back in the day you didn't need a google car, stagger out of the pub and fall on your ass, and get taken home - m'asal beag dubh style.

Milk & Honey

hairyprincess wrote: »

If they refrain from going out one of the nights in the week that they go out they will have the money to drink and get a taxi the other nights. Everybody is happy

How can a person sitting at home when they want to go to the pub be happy? How can his friends in the pub who are missing his company be happy? The only people who are happy are the taxi drivers and the killjoys.

Defiler Of The Coffin

It's completely unworkable to have one drink driving rule for the poor oul fellas and another for the rest. Drink driving has become socially intolerable over the last number of years and hopefully it continues that way.

I sympathise with the fact that a lot of elderly people in rural Ireland are lonely but allowing them leeway to perform a dangerous act isn't the answer.

Defiler Of The Coffin

Milk & Honey wrote: »

How can a person sitting at home when they want to go to the pub be happy? How can his friends in the pub who are missing his company be happy? The only people who are happy are the taxi drivers and the killjoys.

You can't have it every way. Life isn't fair.

Helix

Milk & Honey wrote: »

The only people who are happy are the taxi drivers and the killjoys.

killjoys? people who dont want morons drinking and driving are killjoys? seriously?

Helix

Milk & Honey wrote: »

How can a person sitting at home when they want to go to the pub be happy? How can his friends in the pub who are missing his company be happy?

why can't they drive to and from the pub and not bloody well drink if they want to be there that badly??

Milk & Honey

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

The real problem is ribbon development. If all the houses/pubs were in the village then no one would have to drive.

Pubs could run a B&B

or setup a local drunk tank

People could drink at home

take it in turns to be the designated driver

stay with friends / relations in town


Back in the day you didn't need a google car, stagger out of the pub and fall on your ass, and get taken home - m'asal beag dubh style.

I live in an area where there are three pubs and two hotels within a 15 minute walk of the vast majority of the houses in the area. People won't walk to the pubs. Hardly any locals drink in the pubs or the hotels. Proximity to the pub is not the problem. people are just not comfortable walking to and from pubs at night, particularly when the publicans offer no facilities for storing overcoats etc.

christmas2012

better to have a designated driver in these situations,or have the pub send for a taxi

AhInFairness

Milk & Honey wrote: »

I live in an area where there are three pubs and two hotels within a 15 minute walk of the vast majority of the houses in the area. People won't walk to the pubs. Hardly any locals drink in the pubs or the hotels. Proximity to the pub is not the problem. people are just not comfortable walking to and from pubs at night, particularly when the publicans offer no facilities for storing overcoats etc.

So don't drink. Go and have a coffee/tea/soft drink/water. Why is not drinking alcohol so beyond people's power of comprehension?

People are banging on about the social side of things and how these poor people are isolated due to the rural nature of where they live, the pub is the only social outlet blah blah....if that is the case then why can't they go to the pub and not drink alcohol? Seriously, explain it to me.

hondasam

AhInFairness wrote: »

So don't drink. Go and have a coffee/tea/soft drink/water. Why is not drinking alcohol so beyond people's power of comprehension?

People are banging on about the social side of things and how these poor people are isolated due to the rural nature of where they live, the pub is the only social outlet blah blah....if that is the case then why can't they go to the pub and not drink alcohol? Seriously, explain it to me.

It's really not that difficult to understand. Some people enjoy a chat and a few pints, without the few pints the chat is not as good.

galwayrush

Any drink driver is a wreckless bastard, end of...

AhInFairness

hondasam wrote: »

It's really not that difficult to understand. Some people enjoy a chat and a few pints, without the few pints the chat is not as good.

As someone who no longer drinks, that is complete bullshít.

If you need alcohol to have a good time in a social situation then you have a problem.

Helix

hondasam wrote: »

It's really not that difficult to understand. Some people enjoy a chat and a few pints, without the few pints the chat is not as good.

if the chat isnt as good without a few pints then it's poor company

Helix

Milk & Honey wrote: »

Iparticularly when the publicans offer no facilities for storing overcoats etc.

jesus christ, have the locals not figured out that they can leave their coats on the back of their chair, or beside someone in a booth yet?

Fromthetrees

It's actually more dangerous to drive on country roads than on urban roads so maybe the drink driving laws should be even stricter for rural drivers. :P
Most people in cities factor in the cost of a taxi home anyway of at least a tenner (usually more). If there's four old codgers sitting there at the end of a Saturday night needing a lift home surely any rural taxi driver would be delighted to take 40 euro to drop them all home even if it takes him an hour,
problem solved,
yere all welcome.

SafeSurfer

I think its important to make the distinction between drink driving (which is still legal despite what people seem to think) to drunk driving (which is illegal).

Some people have said they would never drive if they have had a drink. Thats great, thats their choice. Do they also avoid driving the morning after drinking?

The legal blood alcohol limit has been reduced from 80mg per 100ml of blood to 20mg per 100ml of blood for professional drivers, learner drivers, newly qualified drivers, those driving tractors or cars with trailers.

Otherwise the limit is 50mg per 100ml of blood.

If I am out and have a vehicle I will never drink more than 2 pints. If I happen to have more I will leave the car and walk.

Not that long ago the anti drink driving campaigns slogan was two will do. I think that approach is perfectly sensible and should be rigorously enforced.

In 19 years of driving I have never been breathalysed. The government announce a zero tolerence to drink driving and then close Garda stations and cut Garda resources.

It would make more sense to set a drink driving limit at a higher level and enforce it fully.

Interestingly the lower 20mg limit applies if you do not have your driving licence on you when stopped.

Defiler Of The Coffin

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Not that long ago the anti drink driving campaigns slogan was two will do. I think that approach is perfectly sensible and should be rigorously enforced.

How could you seriously enforce this? The same amount of alcohol affects people in different ways. Some people are in no state to drive after 2 pints. You are on to something when you talk about better enforcement but it shouldn't be because of an increased limit.

monkeypants

Milk & Honey wrote: »

the publicans offer no facilities for storing overcoats etc.

Please describe these 'facilities' as I'm not sure if I have them in my house.