The E-Cigarette conspiracy.

kjl

About 3 weeks ago I started smoking an electronic cigarette and I very slowly finished off my last pack and and now I haven't smoked a real cigarette in 2 weeks.

I also notice that I am cutting down on smoking the electronic cigarette more and more and I am going to move to a nicotine free version of the smoke juice on my next order.

The FDA has said they are not healthy and as such they are now illegal in new york. I think there is a conspiracy to get rid of these products because they are so effective in helping you quit smoking. These alternatives are tax free everywhere in the world and governments make a huge amount of money from cigarette tax. In the states especially big tobacco have a huge influence on american politics and provide a lot of political funding.

The FDA said that after inspecting the lung after a period a 5 min of smoking the electronic cigarette they saw the lung react in a fashion that was not that unsimilar to tobacco use. The didn't exactly say the effects are similar to tobacco smoking either. Very vague answer in my opinion.

They also flooded the news about the about the guy who's ecig's battery exploded, but what you fail to hear about was they fact that it was a home-made battery that was stuck together with electrical tape. The battery used in you phone is the same one as the electronic cigarette.

Has anyone else out there tried them, what are your views on it?

Pushtrak

I'm going to be making the switch soon. A good video on the subject is here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sqkJPhmPao

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

the EU has banned the sale of swedish snus everywhere in the eu except sweden

governments in poorly thought out regulatory decisions shocker

although as you say it may not be so poorly thought out.. without the tax revenue from cigarettes the state sponsored healthcare systems across the continent would likely collapse.

--edit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=poOP9skjaxM

a greek cardiologist was on a vaping podcast talking about a study he did on the effects of smoking cigs on the body v electronic cigarettes. it's like 2 and a half hours long but pretty interesting.

TLDR.. ecigs are basically* harmless.



*... basically i said, not completely.

Canard

Oh no, its like a cigarette but helps you quit, quick ban it but dont ban the actual cigarettes? :rolleyes:

LETHAL LADY

Kinda reminds me of the fish tanks that eat the scabby feet off you.

jonon9

My mother stopped smoking after 50 years four months ago and she did it cold turkey none of that nicotine and electronic fag S**T, if a woman approaching her 70s can do it I'm sure a younger person can too you dont need patches to help!

Biologic

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

although as you say it may not be so poorly thought out.. without the tax revenue from cigarettes the state sponsored healthcare systems across the continent would likely collapse.

That's a common misconception. Smoking actually costs the health service loads more than it raises.

Edit: here's a few links to support my claim.
Revenue raised= ~1Bn http://www.revenue.ie/en/about/publications/tobacco-market.pdf
Costs= just over 2bn per year http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0716/1224300821905.html

Pushtrak

jonon9 wrote: »

My mother stopped smoking after 50 years four months ago and she did it cold turkey none of that nicotine and electronic fag S**T, if a woman approaching her 70s can do it I'm sure a younger person can too you dont need patches to help!

Electronic cigs aren't necessarily a quitting thing. It is more a healthy alternative. Perhaps you are of a mind everyone should just quit. Know then, not everyone is of your mind.

jonon9

Pushtrak wrote: »

Electronic cigs aren't necessarily a quitting thing. It is more a healthy alternative. Perhaps you are of a mind everyone should just quit. Know then, not everyone is of your mind.

I understand completely but the way I see it is If your quitting dont waste your money on tech cigs or patches you have wasted enough money on fags already

kjl

Pushtrak wrote: »

Electronic cigs aren't necessarily a quitting thing. It is more a healthy alternative. Perhaps you are of a mind everyone should just quit. Know then, not everyone is of your mind.

Yeah, but a lot of people want to quit but can't because it is extremely difficult.

LH Pathe

kjl wrote: »

About 3 weeks ago I started smoking an electronic cigarette and I very slowly finished off my last pack and and now I haven't smoked a real cigarette in 2 weeks.

I also notice that I am cutting down on smoking the electronic cigarette more and more and I am going to move to a nicotine free version of the smoke juice on my next order.

The FDA has said they are not healthy and as such they are now illegal in new york. I think there is a conspiracy to get rid of these products because they are so effective in helping you quit smoking. These alternatives are tax free everywhere in the world and governments make a huge amount of money from cigarette tax. In the states especially big tobacco have a
Has anyone else out there tried them, what are your views on it?

good if it works for you .. and that's up to you but I've not felt a need to use em - thought I was struggling for breath the other day bit turned out to be a flu that was turning me feeble, teh joys of summer I don't think they want em banned to increase smokers lol. I think they are even more infuriated by non smokable objects being used to appear like smoking.. which brings to mind if kids still wanna torment teh authorities it really don't take much these days so get busy. Before imitation smokes become imitation firearms

ZENER

jonon9 wrote: »

My mother stopped smoking after 50 years four months ago and she did it cold turkey none of that nicotine and electronic fag S**T, if a woman approaching her 70s can do it I'm sure a younger person can too you dont need patches to help!

Wow !! So she's 120 years old now !? Well done !!

Ken

Amirani

ZENER wrote: »

Wow !! So she's 120 years old now !? Well done !!

Ken

Fail.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

Biologic wrote: »

That's a common misconception. Smoking actually costs the health service loads more than it raises.

Edit: here's a few links to support my claim.
Revenue raised= ~1Bn http://www.revenue.ie/en/about/publications/tobacco-market.pdf
Costs= just over 2bn per year http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0716/1224300821905.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/05/health/05iht-obese.1.9748884.html?_r=3

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/08/how-much-does-smoking-cos_n_184554.html

i'd imagine it's similar enough in Ireland, especially with the crazy high tax on cigarettes here

Seaneh

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/05/health/05iht-obese.1.9748884.html?_r=3

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/08/how-much-does-smoking-cos_n_184554.html

i'd imagine it's similar enough in Ireland, especially with the crazy high tax on cigarettes here

Well done on posting two unrelated american links despite two posts from irish sources being posted before which totally discredit them...

Morag

there's a vaping/ecig forum

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1497

Born to Die

Just ban smoking, horrible fcuking things. As an ex smoker I would advocate them being banned outright.

Come on Nanny state Government do it, go on do it.

3ndahalfof6

jonon9 wrote: »

My mother stopped smoking after 50 years four months ago and she did it cold turkey none of that nicotine and electronic fag S**T, if a woman approaching her 70s can do it I'm sure a younger person can too you dont need patches to help!

with age comes wisdom and fear.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

Seaneh wrote: »

Well done on posting two unrelated american links despite two posts from irish sources being posted before which totally discredit them...

two news reports about actual studies compared to a comment by a government minister

uh-huh.

flutterflye

I'm pregnant and really needed to quit, but I honestly would not have managed it without those electric things - they are brilliant!

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

when pregnant the e-cigs are still bad for the child, they still contain nicotine...

Gran Hermano

Biologic wrote: »

That's a common misconception. Smoking actually costs the health service loads more than it raises.

Edit: here's a few links to support my claim.
Revenue raised= ~1Bn http://www.revenue.ie/en/about/publications/tobacco-market.pdf
Costs= just over 2bn per year http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0716/1224300821905.html

You are omitting how smokers are a net contributor to an economy when you factor in how a shorter life expectancy means the government saves on the likes of pensions, housing and such.

Dudess

jonon9 wrote: »

My mother stopped smoking after 50 years four months ago and she did it cold turkey none of that nicotine and electronic fag S**T, if a woman approaching her 70s can do it I'm sure a younger person can too you dont need patches to help!

Depends on the individual.

flutterflye

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

when pregnant the e-cigs are still bad for the child, they still contain nicotine...

Yeah - On my 3rd day of going cold turkey, I was so close to cracking - I rang my doctor on the verge of a panic attack and asked him could I use the electric cigs.

He said that they are still bad for the baby, but if it gets me off them, then it's better than me caving and buying a pack of real cigs - at least there isn't any tar and extra toxins etc...

So I went down and got one, and a week later I nolonger needed it - completely weaned myself off them.
But it wouldn't have been possible otherwise - lesser of 2 evils I guess.

Overflow

flutterflye wrote: »

I'm pregnant and really needed to quit, but I honestly would not have managed it without those electric things - they are brilliant!

Not even for the sake of your baby ? You should be ashamed !

flutterflye

Overflow wrote: »

Not even for the sake of your baby ? You should be ashamed !

Well I'm not.
But maybe you should be, because that was just mean.

Overflow

I have no reason to be ashamed, but feeding your unborn, developing baby nicotine, hmmm ! Show some self control !

Biologic

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

two news reports about actual studies compared to a comment by a government minister

uh-huh.

Firstly, you didnt give me 2 reports, you gave me 2 articles about the same report. That means you gave me one source. And I didn't just give you a ministerial comment, I gave you a report too. That means I gave you two sources.
Secondly, your original point was that healthcare systems were reliant on tobacco revenue. I showed you that, year for year, that isn't the case. Your report says absolutely nothing about tobacco revenue and doesn't back your claim up at all. If your original point was "smoking kills people earlier in the US so the more we smoke, the more we save" then that report would be perfect, but it wasn't.
I was surprised by the figures when I heard about it too. But I didn't feel the need to argue them for the sake of it. Anyway, here's more sources seeing as a minister isn't enough. The Irish healthcare budget is just under 15bn and smoking accounts for up to 15% of that.
http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/Publications/corporate/HealthMattersMagazine/Tobaccocontrol.pdf

Gran Hermano wrote: »

You are omitting how smokers are a net contributor to an economy when you factor in how a shorter life expectancy means the government saves on the likes of pensions, housing and such.

This is kind of the same point his report is making above. I'm not going to argue with the figures, but I really don't see how it has a place in any healthcare debate at all. If we're trying to save money on healthcare at the cost of human life, then let's just disband the health service completely. Year for year, up to the same age point, smokers cost more than non-smokers. That should be the end of the cost-analysis. Besides, my original point was never about this. If we're going to case the net this wide, we would also need to look at lost economic productivity because of smoking (currently over 300m per year in Ireland), social effects on children etc.

OneArt

If the e-cigarette provides the stimulant nicotine in a safe a manner as drinking a cup of coffee, then I think there should be an overall push to make it the only type of smoking available. If they have the same effect with none of the chemicals, then I'll happily switch. I'm considering buying one once I've saved up a bit (saving to get my own place first)!

That being said no drug, whether caffeine or nicotine, is good for you. Even medicines f*ck you up in some way, humans weren't meant to take drugs of any kind.

Micky Dolenz

Overflow wrote: »

Not even for the sake of your baby ? You should be ashamed !

Why? Because you say so?

Throwing the first stone and all that jazz.

Micky Dolenz

OneArt wrote: »

If the e-cigarette provides the stimulant nicotine in a safe a manner as drinking a cup of coffee, then I think there should be an overall push to make it the only type of smoking available. If they have the same effect with none of the chemicals, then I'll happily switch. I'm considering buying one once I've saved up a bit (saving to get my own place first)!

That being said no drug, whether caffeine or nicotine, is good for you. Even medicines f*ck you up in some way, humans weren't meant to take drugs of any kind.

A starter kit costs about 80 quid. You probably spend that a week on fags.

Shryke

I got off them cold turkey. If you actually want to then it is easy. If a person can't give them up it's because they don't want to give them up, in spite of reason.

jam_mac_jam

Overflow wrote: »

Not even for the sake of your baby ? You should be ashamed !

She got off them didnt she?

Posy

My uncle quit smoking using e-cigarettes and he's been off the fags for nearly two years now. He still smokes the e-cigarette now a couple of times a week. He tried the nicorette inhalers too but wasn't a fan.

ejmaztec

Biologic wrote: »

That's a common misconception. Smoking actually costs the health service loads more than it raises.

Edit: here's a few links to support my claim.
Revenue raised= ~1Bn http://www.revenue.ie/en/about/publications/tobacco-market.pdf
Costs= just over 2bn per year http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0716/1224300821905.html

I wonder what the difference would be if they calculated the total state pensions that wouldn't get paid due to someone dying of smoking-related diseases before they reach retirement age.

seamus

Studies have shown that nicotine replacement "therapy", gums, patches, vaping, etc, is no more effective than going cold turkey.

If there was a conspiracy to prevent people from quitting smoking, they should be pushing these things so they can fool people into believing that they'll give up.

SouthTippBass

Overflow wrote: »

Not even for the sake of your baby ? You should be ashamed !

Peter perfect, is that you?

Micky Dolenz

seamus wrote: »

Studies have shown that nicotine replacement "therapy", gums, patches, vaping, etc, is no more effective than going cold turkey.

If there was a conspiracy to prevent people from quitting smoking, they should be pushing these things so they can fool people into believing that they'll give up.

I've noticed a massive upsurge in vaping in my local bar. However about the others, I don't think it's being sold as a therapy but more as an alternative.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

seamus wrote: »

Studies have shown that nicotine replacement "therapy", gums, patches, vaping, etc, is no more effective than going cold turkey.

If there was a conspiracy to prevent people from quitting smoking, they should be pushing these things so they can fool people into believing that they'll give up.

yeah but vaping is more of a harm reduction thing. you're still an addict but you're not doing anywhere near as much damage to your body as you are burning a plant+paper and inhaling the smoke.

dj jarvis

i swear by the vaporizers - i have one and have not had one cig in 14 months

7 out of the 8 people i know who have tried them have quit smoking,

the do work , cost less and prolong you life - have yet to see the down side

the tobacco company's have lobbied successfully to ban these in other country's , they will try here also - only a matter of time
and our government being the spineless sewer scum that they are will bend over and take it from them

watch this space

OneArt

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

A starter kit costs about 80 quid. You probably spend that a week on fags.

Not in the glorious Bundesrepublik, its usually about 30 euro or so (provided I buy rollies).

If I can enjoy smoking without many negative health side effects, however, I wouldn't mind.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

OneArt wrote: »

Not in the glorious Bundesrepublik, its usually about 30 euro or so (provided I buy rollies).

If I can enjoy smoking without many negative health side effects, however, I wouldn't mind.

the cost of ecigs are pretty frontloaded. you have to pay the 50-80 for the starter kit but after that it's cheap as chips. if you use cartomisers.. it'll be 1.50-2 euro a week for the cartomiser itself.. juice depends on the brand/site yhou get it from.. but you can get 50ml for 15 euro here in Ireland and that oughta last you at the very least 3-4 weeks.. and i do mean the very least, you'd have to have the ecig inn your hand almost constantly to be using that much on a regular ecig.

and it is quite like smoking but it's not 100%. you just can't replicate the taste of burning paper or plant material.. not entirely sure you'd want to either

hondasam

dj jarvis wrote: »

i swear by the vaporizers - i have one and have not had one cig in 14 months

7 out of the 8 people i know who have tried them have quit smoking,

the do work , cost less and prolong you life - have yet to see the down side

the tobacco company's have lobbied successfully to ban these in other country's , they will try here also - only a matter of time
and our government being the spineless sewer scum that they are will bend over and take it from them

watch this space

I would like to try it to see if it works. I don't know anyone who has tried it.
Do you ever stop using the vaporizer?

Cunning Stunt

Does anyone have a reliable link to e-cigs / vaporisers being sold online?

Would like to look into this for my mother. She went cold turkey once - and nearly had a nervous breakdown! Maybe she'll have better luck with one of these gadgets...

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

Cunning Stunt wrote: »

Does anyone have a reliable link to e-cigs / vaporisers being sold online?

Would like to look into this for my mother. She went cold turkey once - and nearly had a nervous breakdown! Maybe she'll have better luck with one of these gadgets...

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1497

make a thread here, someone will help

or even have a look at some of the other threads of people asking the same question.. there's a few on the first/second page.. tends to be the same advice given in most of them.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

hondasam wrote: »

I would like to try it to see if it works. I don't know anyone who has tried it.
Do you ever stop using the vaporizer?

you can lower ytour nicotine intake with the ecig. you might start on 18mg juice and wean yourself down to 12mg and later 6mg then 0.. it will still require willpower to out and out stop but so long as you go back on the ecigs when you fall off the wagon instead of buying a pack of smokes.. you're at least not doing serious long term damage to yourself.

the ecig is more of an alternative to smoking rather than a quitting aid as with or without the ecig, you'll still need that mass of willpower. although like i said above the ecig can help as you can wean yourself down off nicotine to the point where you're only using a small amount.

Andy-Pandy

Thanks to this thread ive just purchased a starter kit. Hopefully it'll get me off the smokes, i've tried everything else.

dj jarvis

hondasam wrote: »

I would like to try it to see if it works. I don't know anyone who has tried it.
Do you ever stop using the vaporizer?

god no :-)
still on them - but least evil i think , so im still addicted to nicotine but thats non fatal so happy days ,
TBH if real smoking did not kill you i would smoke away - actually enjoyed it
but after 2 heart attacks by the age of 38 due to smoking i thought i had better stop ( first one did not stop me :-( )

all i can say is it really works for me , i make sure i have juice/charger with me at all times - so no real smokes

and dont mind the ney Sayers - i got a ribbing of my mates and work mates - but they are slowing dieing and paying good money to do so
so who looks stupid now ya bunch of goons :-)

Turpentine

Biologic wrote: »

That's a common misconception. Smoking actually costs the health service loads more than it raises.

Edit: here's a few links to support my claim.
Revenue raised= ~1Bn http://www.revenue.ie/en/about/publications/tobacco-market.pdf
Costs= just over 2bn per year http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0716/1224300821905.html

Hold on, your first link says cigarettes alone (not including other tobacco products) brought in €1,132m in excise in 2008, while your second link says tobacco costs the health service €365m per year.

You've just disproved your own point, and by a huge margin.

Capt'n Midnight

Turpentine wrote: »

Hold on, your first link says cigarettes alone (not including other tobacco products) brought in €1,132m in excise in 2008, while your second link says tobacco costs the health service €365m per year.

You've just disproved your own point, and by a huge margin.

Did you read the article ?

SMOKING COSTS the Irish economy at least €l million a day in lost productivity, according to Minister of State for Health Róisín Shortall.

She has warned it will cost the health service more than €23 billion over the next decade if there is no progress in cutting the numbers who smoke, now 29 per cent of the population. “That would pay the entire cost of running our health services for almost two years,” she told the Dáil.

Turpentine

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Did you read the article ?

I did, and that 23bn she suggests is only a prediction, based on what I don't know. Is that an overlapping of people who smoke who have to use the health service or people who are there because of smoking?

Is she implying that if smoking as a habit were eradicated, that 29% of the population would not ever need to use the health system? Have her figures taken into account the cost of prolonged care of age-related illnesses due to people living longer?

The only figure that's actually cited as a past figure in the article is the €365m in "productivity".

Do you have a useful link that displays the exact cost of smoking to the healthcare system? I would be interested in reading it.