Is Atheism a religion?

shizz

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Look I Englished!

You accidentally the whole thing.

AtomicHorror

shizz wrote: »

You accidentally the whole thing.

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

Galvasean

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

Yes, but only on Tuesdays.

ShooterSF

I'm fairly certain Atheism isn't a religion but I'm even more confident that arguing it is is a relay race.

"Damn I've been shown my mistakes"
*Passes baton*

DuPLeX

Ok ! what are the rules with regard to the question ...what is a Religion? who made them up ? why ? and were they peer reviewed ? I bet I wont any real get answers .

DuPLeX

By the way ! Mod...... there are no religious Zealots on this forum it would seem .unless of course you actually believe that Atheism is a religion .

Delirium

DuPLeX wrote: »

Ok ! what are the rules with regard to the question ...what is a Religion? who made them up ? why ? and were they peer reviewed ? I bet I wont any real get answers .

Religion isn't a scientific theory, so why would it be peer reviewed?

it's a noun that describes a specific thing, much the way 'apple' describes an item. language develops in an entirely different way to science.

Kidchameleon

Dades wrote: »

Charming.

No, the list doesn't go on. It doesn't even start with what your mentioned because I don't know a single individual who meets your criteria. And I know a lot of atheists.

Why am I even bothering?

Your bothering because like every other Athiest I've ever met, you are militantly preaching your beliefs. And yes the list does go on. Why am I bothering.

Sarky

Because your pride is wounded after thinking you had a world class post full of wisdom, then seeing it fail utterly. Possibly because you fervently believe against all the odds that you're still right. There's a tiny chance you just like making an ass of yourself.

Meh, either way. Atheism still isn't a religion. Deal with it.

Stercus Accidit

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Your bothering because like every other Athiest I've ever met, you are militantly preaching your beliefs.

Would you describe your post as militant preaching? Would you describe mine as? What isn't militant preaching in your opinion?

And yes the list does go on.

The list seems to have fallen flat already, if it continues to go on you picked some bad points to put on it.

Why am I bothering.

You are bothering I'd guess because you feel the need to reinforce your beliefs by arguing with others and hoping to fluster them with your idea, it is common on this forum. The tragedy however is when such arguments are soundly rebuffed the proponent of them simply ignores the points and goes into cognitive dissonant mode, or ad hominem replies, sweeping statements and non sequiter arguments.

I really don't give a f*ck what you believe, as long as it doesn't affect the rights of others in the country, it is the above that I actually find tragic and seems typical of the human condition and in particular the vehement theists who argue on here.

AtomicHorror

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Your bothering because like every other Athiest I've ever met, you are militantly preaching your beliefs.

Misleading language. Arguing for something is not necessarily preaching. You chose to label it as such so that it sounds more like something we'd associate with religion. Vigorous argument is not necessarily militant. You chose that word again because of the association with religious fundamentalism. Your main argument technique here seems to be spin. It's odd that you are surprised that this doesn't work well on a forum full of skeptics.

Kidchameleon wrote: »

And yes the list does go on. Why am I bothering.

As Stercus has said, if the list goes on and we got the highlights, the rest must be very poor indeed. I don't know why you are bothering either.

Zombrex

Kidchameleon wrote: »

* Militant preaching of beliefs
* "Everyone else's beliefs are wrong and mine are right"
* Needing to have a group to belong to / be part of
* Fund raising
* Political interference
* Weekly meetings
* Beliefs that have no scientific proof

Can you point out which of those makes something a religion as opposed to any other organisation centred around a common idea that expresses that idea publicly?

Because by this rather ridiculous set of criteria something like Peta would be considered a religion, as would pretty much any political party. Or the Man Utd supporters club.

Surely if you have to resort to something redefining words such as "religion" or "faith" in order to claim that atheism is a faith based religion, the exercise becomes rather pointless (and don't get me started about the abuse of the term "militant" which apparently now means "published a book about it". I could claim you are a Communist and support that not by showing how you adhere to Communist principles but by simply redefining the term "Communist" to simply be what ever you are. But that would be stupid.

swampgas

DuPLeX wrote: »

Ok ! what are the rules with regard to the question ...what is a Religion? who made them up ? why ? and were they peer reviewed ? I bet I wont any real get answers .

I bet you don't want any answers - you've already made your mind up.

DuPLeX wrote: »

By the way ! Mod...... there are no religious Zealots on this forum it would seem .unless of course you actually believe that Atheism is a religion .

What? You're not making any sense.

You know, "duplex" means information travels in both directions. Maybe "SimPLeX" would be a better handle for you ...

Sarky

robindch wrote: »

Atheism is a religion like abstinence is a sex position.

Any more like this, folks?

As an attempt at on-topic:

Atheism is a religion like silence is a noise.

Dades

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Your bothering because like every other Athiest I've ever met, you are militantly preaching your beliefs.

Look in the mirror, buddy. I'm not the one in an unfamiliar forum telling people what they are.

MisterEpicurus

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Your bothering because like every other Athiest I've ever met, you are militantly preaching your beliefs. And yes the list does go on. Why am I bothering.

Total crap.

Who are you to make atheists feel guilty for arguing about such topics and then re-labelling it as 'preaching'?
According to the dictionary, preaching would be defined as;
1. To proclaim or make known by sermon
2. To deliver (a sermon)
3. To inculcate (religious or moral truth) in speech
How can an atheist possibly be accused of 'preaching' and fulfil these specific criteria? Here we go again, the disturbing process of re-twisting and re-contorting techniques employed by believers to equivocate aspects of atheism and religion. It fails time and time again. This example is a particularly idiotic one, and yes, desperate.

Moreover, how dare you even attempt to make this type of equivocation. It was for centuries that your lot did their utter best to silence non-believers and manipulate them through fear and false-promise to adhere to their faith if they even questioned the faith. Now that atheists have the ability to speak freely unmolested by the authorities, you lot detest it when we try and argue against your perspectives. So don't be floating around these forums accusing us of 'preaching'. I know you lot are unfamiliar with logic and argument, but you'd better get used to it. These tools are far more effective than the fearful manipulation the church has inflicted on us for many centuries, and in many parts of the world, still continues to this very day.

Just a final thought...if you got into a discussion about economics (socialism/capitalism) debate, would you leave the discussion and accuse the other party of 'preaching militantly their beliefs' and walk away? I bloody well hope not. Grow up FFS.

Kidchameleon

MisterEpicurus wrote: »

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Your bothering because like every other Athiest I've ever met, you are militantly preaching your beliefs. And yes the list does go on. Why am I bothering.

Total crap.

Who are you to make atheists feel guilty for arguing about such topics and then re-labelling it as 'preaching'?
According to the dictionary, preaching would be defined as;
1. To proclaim or make known by sermon
2. To deliver (a sermon)
3. To inculcate (religious or moral truth) in speech
How can an atheist possibly be accused of 'preaching' and fulfil these specific criteria? Here we go again, the disturbing process of re-twisting and re-contorting techniques employed by believers to equivocate aspects of atheism and religion. It fails time and time again. This example is a particularly idiotic one, and yes, desperate.

Moreover, how dare you even attempt to make this type of equivocation. It was for centuries that your lot did their utter best to silence non-believers and manipulate them through fear and false-promise to adhere to their faith if they even questioned the faith. Now that atheists have the ability to speak freely unmolested by the authorities, you lot detest it when we try and argue against your perspectives. So don't be floating around these forums accusing us of 'preaching'. I know you lot are unfamiliar with logic and argument, but you'd better get used to it. These tools are far more effective than the fearful manipulation the church has inflicted on us for many centuries, and in many parts of the world, still continues to this very day.

Just a final thought...if you got into a discussion about economics (socialism/capitalism) debate, would you leave the discussion and accuse the other party of 'preaching militantly their beliefs' and walk away? I bloody well hope not. Grow up FFS.

My lot? Im not religious mate. Never said i was

Delirium

Kidchameleon wrote: »

My lot? Im not religious mate. Never said i was

yes you are considering that it's essentially impossible not to be based on what you've posted on this thread.

Sarky

In b4 "you don't know me how dare you make assumptions about my beliefs" retort without a trace of irony.

Kidchameleon

koth wrote: »

Kidchameleon wrote: »

My lot? Im not religious mate. Never said i was

yes you are considering that it's essentially impossible not to be based on what you've posted on this thread.

Please explain? And no, im not religious. I hate preachy types. Thats why i cant stand athiests, they are the worst of the lot

MagicMarker

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Please explain? And no, im not religious. I hate preachy types. Thats why i cant stand athiests, they are the worst of the lot

Wait a minute, so you're not an atheist? So you are a theist? So you are also religious...

Kidchameleon

Sarky wrote: »

In b4 "you don't know me how dare you make assumptions about my beliefs" retort without a trace of irony.

Well now in fairness I dident once state that I was religious. Let me say for the record that I am not.

Sonics2k

> Comes to Atheism & Agnosticism forums
> Sees people explain how Atheism can't possibly be a religion
> calls them Militant
> Accuses them of being preachy on said forums
> No trace of irony.

*headsplosion*

Turtwig

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Sarky wrote: »

In b4 "you don't know me how dare you make assumptions about my beliefs" retort without a trace of irony.

Well now in fairness I dident once state that I was religious. Let me say for the record that I am not.

You are the religion of not being a religion.
Checkmate! ! !

swampgas

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Please explain? And no, im not religious. I hate preachy types. Thats why i cant stand athiests, they are the worst of the lot

You might try being a little less abrasive: maybe you can't stand preachiness, I'm not exactly thrilled to bits at being described as "the worst of the lot" simply because I'm an atheist.

You say you're not religious - are you a theist? an atheist? How do you manage to be non-religious yet still not be an atheist? It's possible, I'm just curious, because many people who describe themselves as "not religious" tend to be atheists as well.

If you don't mind me saying so, it really sounds like you haven't thought out your position very clearly.

Delirium

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Please explain? And no, im not religious. I hate preachy types. Thats why i cant stand athiests, they are the worst of the lot

your definition of religion is so vague that it applies to nearly any grouping of people.

So no matter how you stand on religious matters, you are religious by your own definition. If you have a problem with that, I suggest you have words with yourself.

MrPudding

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Well now in fairness I dident once state that I was religious. Let me say for the record that I am not.

I think you might be religious. According to your definition almost any grouping of people with similar attributes are religious.

You have come on here telling people who have spent a lot of time thinking about what they are what they are, and then proceed to not listen to them when they patiently explain why they aren't what you think they are.

You are abrasive, fairly obnoxious and quite offensive. You appear to refuse to accept what anyone else says. I know of plenty of other people with a very similar way of operating who also believe what they think is true, irrespective of what they are told. You appear, to be part of that group. Further, according to that definition you are all in a religion.

<mod snip>

MisterEpicurus

It's just bizarre.

> Atheism is a lack of belief in a deity and therefore religion.
> Atheism is a religion.

I guess only the twisted minds of believers can square that. I guess this is easy for them, they've already been warmed up with the Trinity.

Opticom

MisterEpicurus wrote: »

It's just bizarre.

> Atheism is a lack of belief in a deity and therefore religion

Indeed, but on top of that some theists, and even some atheists, get atheism mixed up with anti-theism.

Turtwig

Opticom wrote: »

MisterEpicurus wrote: »

It's just bizarre.

> Atheism is a lack of belief in a deity and therefore religion

Indeed, but on top of that some theists, and even some atheists, get atheism mixed up with anti-theism.

That's the one that really irks me.
"But you're too nice to be an atheist."
It's one of those compliments where I'm not sure if I want to plonk the person on the head or smile gratefully.

Kidchameleon

Would you guys at least admit that Atheism has much in common with religion?

Why does an Athiest have to give oneself a label? I for example, do not believe in a god, am not a member of any organised religion and I do not consider myself a member of the Atheist movement. To be frank, calling oneself an "Atheist" takes you one step closer to being religious...

Jeez Atheists, just leave people to believe what they want, each to their own...

Sarky

You seem to be doing most of the labelling people as atheist here. Are you sure you have that right?

The Mad Hatter

You're an atheist. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

What "atheist movement"?

MagicMarker

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Would you guys at least admit that Atheism has much in common with religion?

Why does an Athiest have to give oneself a label? I for example, do not believe in a god, am not a member of any organised religion and I do not consider myself a member of the Atheist movement. To be frank, calling oneself an "Atheist" takes you one step closer to being religious...

Jeez Atheists, just leave people to believe what they want, each to their own...

I don't give myself a label, the English language does.

You are an atheist, whether you call yourself one or not, to say otherwise is frankly retarded.

Well, as for "leaving people alone", I don't bother anyone about their or my beliefs.

fitz0

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Would you guys at least admit that Atheism has much in common with religion?

Why does an Athiest have to give oneself a label? I for example, do not believe in a god, am not a member of any organised religion and I do not consider myself a member of the Atheist movement. To be frank, calling oneself an "Atheist" takes you one step closer to being religious...

Jeez Atheists, just leave people to believe what they want, each to their own...

The atheist label is one that has been adopted by much of the non-believer community as a sort of catch all term. It was used as a negative term for so long that, once non-believers could confidently express their opinions without the social stigma of bygone years, they adopted the title as a sort of badge of honour. Kind of similar to how the LGBT community took the word queer away from their tormenters and use it proudly to describe themselves.

Or, a pop culture reference

Tyrion: Let me give you some advice bastard. Never forget what you are. The rest of the world will not. Wear it like armor, and it can never be used to hurt you.
Jon: What the hell do you know about being a bastard?
Tyrion: All dwarfs are bastards in their father's eyes.

I don't use the term atheist, personally. I don't like the connotations and, even though it is technically more or less true, I don't like having a label for something I don't do. Might as well call me a non-vegemite eater or a non-cocaine snorter.

You confuse me KC. I'm not sure of your intent in this thread. First post tells the other posters what they are and subsequent posts attack that very attitude. You wonder why all the people here are so vocal in their opinions, yet it's an atheism & agnosticism forum. Finally, you say "Jeez Atheists, just leave people to believe what they want, each to their own..."

I just don't get it.

Kidchameleon

MagicMarker wrote: »

I don't give myself a label, the English language does.

You are an atheist, whether you call yourself one or not, to say otherwise is frankly retarded.

Well, as for "leaving people alone", I don't bother anyone about their or my beliefs.

Exactly my point, it is a belief you have, you have absolutely no evidence to back it up. Catholics believe in god, again with no evidence.

MagicMarker

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Exactly my point, it is a belief you have, you have absolutely no evidence to back it up. Catholics believe in god, again with no evidence.

I also have no belief in unicorns, is that also a religion?

I also have no belief that you are a black overweight man, is that also a religion?

Also, you are an atheist and say you are not religious. How can that be for you but not for me?

Kidchameleon

MagicMarker wrote: »

I also have no belief in unicorns, is that also a religion?

I also have no belief that you are a black overweight man, is that also a religion?

Also, you are an atheist and say you are not religious. How can that be for you but not for me?

Typical Atheist response ^^

Unicorns tends to be a favorite :rolleyes:

My point is, not believing in god / believing in god are very similar in the sense that there is no evidence to back either claim up. Therefore, either could one day be proven as the truth.

Also before you reply again, perhaps read over the thread, I have conceded already that Atheism is not a religion. I am currently debating weather there are similarities between religion and atheism. I note that not one person has responded to that particular question and all replys have in fact been blatant subject changes.

Oh and no I am not an Atheist (which I technically am). Just as much as you don't want to have attributes akin to religious organizations (which you do). Perhaps its time for people who have no beliefs in a god to be just that, a person who has no beliefs.

MagicMarker

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Typical Atheist response ^^

Unicorns tends to be a favorite :rolleyes:

My point is, not believing in god / believing in god are very similar in the sense that there is no evidence to back either claim up. Therefore, either could one day be proven as the truth.

Also before you reply again, perhaps read over the thread, I have conceded already that Atheism is not a religion. I am currently debating weather there are similarities between religion and atheism. I note that not one person has responded to that particular question and all replys have in fact been blatant subject changes.

Okay, I'll respond to the question, the answer is no, as atheism is simply a lack of belief in a deity. Any other shared characteristics between atheists are simply coincidental.

Now, can you tell me if not having any belief that you are an overweight black man has any similarities with religion?

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Oh and no I am not an Atheist (which I technically am). Just as much as you don't want to have attributes akin to religious organizations (which you do). Perhaps its time for people who have no beliefs in a god to be just that, a person who has no beliefs.

Kidchameleon

MagicMarker wrote: »

Now, can you tell me if not having any belief that you are an overweight black man has any similarities with religion?

No. Not many similarities. The thing is, there is no people roaring in my ear about me being an overweight black man. And this is where atheism begins to border on the religious, because many, many atheists do in fact preach their beliefs, in a savage and intrusive manner, and I have met many atheists! As far as im aware, there is no movement of people campaigning to prove that I am or am not an overweight black man. Likewise, there is no organization trying to disprove the existence of unicorns. They simply attack the existence of god.

Why is that Magic Marker? Why is there a club for church / god bashers and no club for unicorn bashers / overweight black man?

On a side note, I COULD be an overweight black man and there could be unicorns somewhere in the universe. In fact there probably is a unicorn type creature out there somewhere, given the vastness of the universe. There could also be a god.

YOU simply do not know. Nobody does I would imagine.

Sarky

Well a fat black guy like you WOULD say that.

shizz

Kidchameleon wrote: »

No. Not many similarities. The thing is, there is no people roaring in my ear about me being an overweight black man. And this is where atheism begins to border on the religious, because many, many atheists do in fact preach their beliefs, in a savage and intrusive manner, and I have met many atheists! As far as im aware, there is no movement of people campaigning to prove that I am or am not an overweight black man. Likewise, there is no organization trying to disprove the existence of unicorns. They simply attack the existence of god.

Why is that Magic Marker? Why is there a club for church / god bashers and no club for unicorn bashers / overweight black man?

On a side note, I COULD be an overweight black man and there could be unicorns somewhere in the universe. In fact there probably is a unicorn type creature out there somewhere, given the vastness of the universe. There could also be a god.

YOU simply do not know. Nobody does I would imagine.

I'm sorry but if you have ever had an atheist "roaring in your ear" it was most definitely during a discussion that you happily got involved in. I don't know of and doubt there is any atheist's who go around door to door preaching their beliefs like many religious parties do.

Kidchameleon

shizz wrote: »

I'm sorry but if you have ever had an atheist "roaring in your ear" it was most definitely during a discussion that you happily got involved in. I don't know of and doubt there is any atheist's who go around door to door preaching their beliefs like many religious parties do.

There are plenty of atheist organizations who canvas politicians and church organizations. Quick Google search will give you evidence of that. A quick flick through the A&A forum will show up plenty of smug atheists. Plenty of threads in boards get the inevitable "magical man in the clouds" bs derail. Ive had people approaching me on the street on a number of occasions. There was a guy with a megaphone in temple bar before Christmas.

Oh, off topic, I propose that boards moves the A&A forum out of the "Spirituality and Religion" section :rolleyes:

Sarky

How is any of that militant?

shizz

Kidchameleon wrote: »

There are plenty of atheist organizations who canvas politicians and church organizations. Quick Google search will give you evidence of that. A quick flick through the A&A forum will show up plenty of smug atheists. Plenty of threads in boards get the inevitable "magical man in the clouds" bs derail. Ive had people approaching me on the street on a number of occasions. There was a guy with a megaphone in temple bar before Christmas.

Oh, off topic, I propose that boards moves the A&A forum out of the "Spirituality and Religion" section :rolleyes:

But it is the A&A forum. It's not the same as roaring into your ear. You came here not the other way around. A lot of atheist demonstrations are against the involvement of religion within the government not because they believe everyone should believe what they believe.

Turtwig

Kidchameleon wrote: »

There are plenty of atheist organizations who canvas politicians and church organizations. Quick Google search will give you evidence of that. A quick flick through the A&A forum will show up plenty of smug atheists. Plenty of threads in boards get the inevitable "magical man in the clouds" bs derail. Ive had people approaching me on the street on a number of occasions. There was a guy with a megaphone in temple bar before Christmas.

Oh, off topic, I propose that boards moves the A&A forum out of the "Spirituality and Religion" section :rolleyes:

There are plenty of <Insert Option Here> organizations who canvas politicians and church organizations. Quick Google search will give you evidence of that. A quick flick through the <Insert Option's Forum Title here>forum will show up plenty of smug <Insert Option here in plural form>. Plenty of threads in boards get the inevitable <insert generic troll trait of Option here>bs derail. Ive had people approaching me on the street on a number of occasions. There was a guy with a megaphone in temple bar before Christmas.

Le Options.
#1 Environmentalist
#2 Vegetarian.
#3 Animal Welfare Activist
#4 Anti-War Activist.
#5 Human

Sarky

I always knew vegetarians weren't human...

fitz0

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Ive had people approaching me on the street on a number of occasions. There was a guy with a megaphone in temple bar before Christmas.

Can you elaborate on this? Did someone approach you asking you to question your beliefs? Or was it just one of the regular chuggers/religious folk/shell to sea people?

There's always a guy in Temple Bar with a megaphone, it's why it's a fun place. What was this particular lad saying? The only experience I have of soapboxers are the obnoxious preacher on the corner of Henry St, the pro-lifers, the socialists and the odd evangelical.

Galvasean

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Oh and no I am not an Atheist (which I technically am).

Honest question: Are you stupid?

MrPudding

Galvasean wrote: »

Honest question: Are you stupid?

Probably, but you can't say anything about it because it is his religion and therefore protected.

MrP