Celtic considering pulling out of Thomond Park Tournament

stovelid

kippy wrote: »

This is purely a financial issue, so I don't see how the wages paid to the FAI/Title prize money is not related or cannot be brought into the debate.

It can be but not as a way to dispute the fact that the FAI are doing what they are supposed to do. If the FAI bumped up the prize money and slashed JD's wages, they would still be doing the right thing here.

And especially not when the opposition to them doing so has little more substance to it than we want to see XYZ foreign superstars in Ireland at any cost.

Bob the Seducer

CSF wrote: »

Friendlies should be held outside the Aviva, but not by companies who aren't stakeholders in Irish football, renting stadiums from organisations who aren't stakeholders in Irish football.

If these companies were planning on renting Dalymount or the Showgrounds, and wanted to include Bohs or Sligo, and the FAI were vetoing it, we would be all up in arms too. But they are right to say no to companies who offer nothing.

I think I may have to recuse myself from the debate after this.

In relation to this specific tournament one of my primary concerns would be the boost to the local economy - increased trade for hotels, shops, pubs etc more than what it actively gives back to Irish football.

In terms of the League of Ireland, club facilities and ground capacities don't really match up to what this type of pre-season tournament looks for. Television companies (who are probably the driving force behind these things) want the Emirates or the Amsterdam Arena not Tolka or the Showgies. The Aviva and Thomond Park are probably the only two grounds openly available and suitable for this type of thing in the country.

Our league season doesn't line up with the UK/continental standard anymore so club or select XI involvement is more of a distraction for those involved than anything else.

I guess at the end of the day, this boils down to football as a sport and integral part of the community vs football as a business.

The FAI is playing both sides, they're treating it from a business standpoint. They want the money from an endeavour like this to service their stadium debt but they're being defended by those whose primary concern is the the other stakeholders in the game here; league clubs, junior and youth football etc...
While responsibility to these stakeholders may be in the FAI's remit, I'm not so naive as to think that concern for their wellbeing is the driving force behind the refusal to sanction this tournament. The cold hard truth has far more to do with euros on a balance sheet.

CSF

Bob the Seducer wrote: »

CSF wrote: »

Friendlies should be held outside the Aviva, but not by companies who aren't stakeholders in Irish football, renting stadiums from organisations who aren't stakeholders in Irish football.

If these companies were planning on renting Dalymount or the Showgrounds, and wanted to include Bohs or Sligo, and the FAI were vetoing it, we would be all up in arms too. But they are right to say no to companies who offer nothing.

I think I may have to recuse myself from the debate after this.

In relation to this specific tournament one of my primary concerns would be the boost to the local economy - increased trade for hotels, shops, pubs etc more than what it actively gives back to Irish football.

In terms of the League of Ireland, club facilities and ground capacities don't really match up to what this type of pre-season tournament looks for. Television companies (who are probably the driving force behind these things) want the Emirates or the Amsterdam Arena not Tolka or the Showgies. The Aviva and Thomond Park are probably the only two grounds openly available and suitable for this type of thing in the country.

Our league season doesn't line up with the UK/continental standard anymore so club or select XI involvement is more of a distraction for those involved than anything else.

I guess at the end of the day, this boils down to football as a sport and integral part of the community vs football as a business.

The FAI is playing both sides, they're treating it from a business standpoint. They want the money from an endeavour like this to service their stadium debt but they're being defended by those whose primary concern is the the other stakeholders in the game here; league clubs, junior and youth football etc...
While responsibility to these stakeholders may be in the FAI's remit, I'm not so naive as to think that concern for their wellbeing is the driving force behind the refusal to sanction this tournament. The cold hard truth has far more to do with euros on a balance sheet.

If none of our football stadiums (club or otherwise) are good enough for them then they can take their tournaments to countries where they are.

These organisers can't have it all their own way. Irish football comes first.

gnfnrhead

Sounds like they only had two of the four teams picked. Instead of blocking it the FAI should have just insisted on one of the other two being an Irish team. Doesn't matter who, just once it's an Irish team. Doubt there would have been much of a problem with that.

CSF

gnfnrhead wrote: »

Sounds like they only had two of the four teams picked. Instead of blocking it the FAI should have just insisted on one of the other two being an Irish team. Doesn't matter who, just once it's an Irish team. Doubt there would have been much of a problem with that.

That wouldnt represent such a good negotiation technique.

bohsman

Bob the Seducer wrote: »

The FAI is playing both sides, they're treating it from a business standpoint. They want the money from an endeavour like this to service their stadium debt but they're being defended by those whose primary concern is the the other stakeholders in the game here; league clubs, junior and youth football etc...
While responsibility to these stakeholders may be in the FAI's remit, I'm not so naive as to think that concern for their wellbeing is the driving force behind the refusal to sanction this tournament. The cold hard truth has far more to do with euros on a balance sheet.

The quicker the stadium debt is paid off the sooner time and investment can be used elsewhere.

kippy

bohsman wrote: »

The quicker the stadium debt is paid off the sooner time and investment can be used elsewhere.

Are you serious?
If they continue paying their top brass (and JD is just one of them) in excess of 400K per year you can bet your bottom dollar that the last place any money goes will be into grassroots.
Even when the Aviva debt wasn't hanging over them the "Professional" league here was in bits.

CiaranC

Bob the Seducer wrote: »

In relation to this specific tournament one of my primary concerns would be the boost to the local economy - increased trade for hotels, shops, pubs etc more than what it actively gives back to Irish football.

What has the 'local economy' ever done for us? Is the Irish football community now part of Bord Failte or the IDA?

While responsibility to these stakeholders may be in the FAI's remit, I'm not so naive as to think that concern for their wellbeing is the driving force behind the refusal to sanction this tournament. The cold hard truth has far more to do with euros on a balance sheet.

Of course it is, nobody is saying any different.

bohsman

kippy wrote: »

Are you serious?
If they continue paying their top brass (and JD is just one of them) in excess of 400K per year you can bet your bottom dollar that the last place any money goes will be into grassroots.
Even when the Aviva debt wasn't hanging over them the "Professional" league here was in bits.

I'm not saying the money has to go into the league or that it would be used well but as long as the stadium has to be paid off there's no chance of any good investment in grassroots or the league. They certainly dont have enough money to be allowing other companies to take all profit from a tournament like this.

kippy

CiaranC wrote: »

What has the 'local economy' ever done for us? Is the Irish football community now part of Bord Failte or the IDA?


Of course it is, nobody is saying any different.

"local economy"????
I assume most local soccer clubs are sponsored directly or indirectly by local businesses.........who may or may not benefit from an event such as this...
I would also assume that the more money spent in the local or economy in general, the more likelihood of sporting grants being kept at their current level is....
It is very short sighted to write off the "local economy" and it's link to sports.....

CSF

kippy wrote: »

"local economy"????
I assume most local soccer clubs are sponsored directly or indirectly by local businesses.........who may or may not benefit from an event such as this...
I would also assume that the more money spent in the local or economy in general, the more likelihood of sporting grants being kept at their current level is....
It is very short sighted to write off the "local economy" and it's link to sports.....

I think its even more shortsighted to preach to people who are directly involved in the running of their club about how football clubs operate.

kippy

CSF wrote: »

I think its even more shortsighted to preach to people who are directly involved in the running of their club about how football clubs operate.

So clubs get no form of sponsorship/funding/guys buying the odd lotto ticket, possibly sold through the local businesses etc via the "local economy"?
They dont get grants of any kind?

Someone who comes on here and make a remark insinuating that sport is not effected by he local economy is going to be pulled up on it, and rightly so.

CiaranC

kippy wrote: »

So clubs get no form of sponsorship/funding/guys buying the odd lotto ticket, possibly sold through the local businesses etc via the "local economy"?
They dont get grants of any kind?

That must be why Limerick football is booming. Almost six hundred Limerick people went along to their last home game, quick hand them all our revenue streams they deserve it.

It seems there is no shortage of people on here who would love nothing more than to bypass the entire existing Irish football structure so they could get some "football entertainment products" going a couple of times a year for the amusement of our barstooler/daytipper brigades - whether its this nonsense, the Dublin Dons or having the GAA/IRFU host Euro 2020.

That **** might fly in Asia, but we are in our third century of football in Ireland, so no dice.