Season 2 Episode 8 - *HAVE READ THE BOOKS/SPOILERS

Johnny Bitte

Deleted User wrote: »

How was he being abusive? He merely stated the facts of what some elitists have done.

Think he was referring to the abusive people on twitter not the poster.

Funglegunk

Johnny Bitte wrote: »

3 men that could best Jamie??

The only one's I can think of is Selmy Barristem and Loras Tyrell??

Oberyn Martell maybe?

BASHIR

Loving the series so far, the little differences keep a little bit of tension and are adding to the enjoyment of the series for me.

Who could beat Jamie great little topic, I would def say sir Bariston Selmey, What about Jorah Mormont, I would of said the red viper too, plenty of potential options

Son0vagun

Does anyone think that Ned had the beating of Jaime?

titan18

Loras has no chance, he's a jouster, at the point Jaime mentions, he has no combat experience in a real battle, and even Loras admits he's not an excellent swordsman, and that his brother Garlan is better.

Oberyn is a good shout but Jaime has shown disregard for those who don't fight with swords, and with poison considered a cowards weapon along with Oberyn favouring a spear, I don't see it as him.

Two imo, are Gregor and Sandor, as Jaime would have experience of their prowess and he'd know both men are physically stronger than him. The otehr could be Barristan as Jaime idolised him but he's old at this stage.

From the books, I'd say the likes of Bronze Yohn Royce, possibly the Blackfish, Darkstar, Areo Hotah (although he wields an axe),Lyn Corbray, perhaps Arys Oakheart or Balon Swann, who Jaime seems to regard as fine members of the Kingsguard in comparison to the others

If I was going from the show, it'd be Gregor,Sandor and Barristan(despite his age), but from the books, there's a bunch who give Jaime, even at his best, a hard fight, not sure if any of them beat him though

Sleepy

And of course Brienne, though he doesn't know it yet!

Ned wouldn't have stood a chance with a sword. In a battle between their armies, I'd have bet on him every time though.

Johnny Bitte

Great choices listed, I can't remeber half of what went on since finishing them.

May re read.

Sleepy

Last edited by calex71; Today at 00:12. Reason: never mind, realised this was the have read the books thread

Ooh, aren't we getting over-zealous!

Mr Freeze

Johnny Bitte wrote: »

3 men that could best Jamie??

The only one's I can think of is Selmy Barristem and Loras Tyrell??

It would never be Loras! From the books, Jamie doesn't seem to rate him at all.

Ser Barriston
The Mountain
and Oberyn Martell

Those are my 3 that he may be talking about.

I don't think Loras is even the best swordsman in the Tyrell family.

PhlegmyMoses

Sleepy wrote: »

And of course Brienne, though he doesn't know it yet!

Ned wouldn't have stood a chance with a sword. In a battle between their armies, I'd have bet on him every time though.

I reckon Ned would have, or at least Jamie thought he would have, been a worthy opponent. That scene where Ned tells him that he is a tournament trickster rather than a battleground fighter grates on Jamie. Defeating Ned would have affirmed his beliefs that he was a worthy match for anyone. Jamie was gutted when his soldier sticks a spear through Ned's leg. He clearly wanted to fight to the death.

Sleepy

Jaime just wanted to kill him. He hated Ned's looking down on him for killing Aerys and the interaction they had when Ned came into the throne room to find him sat on the Iron Throne waiting to see who came to claim it.

GRRM has said himself that whilst Ned was a competent swordsman, Brandon Stark would have been the better fighter. Think about it: Ned needed 6 friends to beat 3 of the old kingsguard at the Tower of Joy. He'd hardly have been capable of beating a fighter of Jaime's skill 1-on-1.

titan18

Ned would have no chance of beating Jaime tbh. He was never regarded as extremely gifted, Brandon being the better swordsman in their family according to the books, and it was Howland Reed who saved Ned at the Tower of Joy, against Arthur Dayne. From all accounts, Jaime is rated as highly as the likes of Barristan, Dayne and Gerold Hightower in fighting prowess

PhlegmyMoses

Maybe, but Ned never really competed in tournaments. A lot of those guys showed their chops to the whole of Westeros and gained their reps there. He was also a kid when he fought that war whereas Dayne and Selmy had years of experience.

Ned was not fearful of Jaime at all. What was it he said? "I don't like people to know what I can do" when he was doing a bit of cock waving with Jaime. I suppose whatever GRRM says goes but I do think that Jaime would not have taken him lightly at all.

Johnny Bitte

Next question, how the feck are Bran and Hodor meant to get to the north without the Reeds to direct them there???

There obviously gonna come up with some reason for them to head north but in fairness with the Reeds convincing them to go it'll likely seem very weak.

Denerick

Johnny Bitte wrote: »

Next question, how the feck are Bran and Hodor meant to get to the north without the Reeds to direct them there???

There obviously gonna come up with some reason for them to head north but in fairness with the Reeds convincing them to go it'll likely seem very weak.

Even more pressing, I really hope that they split Bran and Rickon up. I've a feeling that the next as yet unwritten book will have a big spot for Rickon, who will rally the Northerners against the Bolton Bastard. If they sent both brothers beyond the wall it will make me want to vomit.

titan18

Johnny Bitte wrote: »

Next question, how the feck are Bran and Hodor meant to get to the north without the Reeds to direct them there???

There obviously gonna come up with some reason for them to head north but in fairness with the Reeds convincing them to go it'll likely seem very weak.

Aye, I'm not sure how they're going to give a reason bar maybe Osha taking on the Reeds role, and then bringing them north. But then again, I can't see why Osha would return back North after escaping form there and going south. I'm hoping they introduce one of the Reeds at least next season after Bran emerges from the Crypt

Sleepy

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Maybe, but Ned never really competed in tournaments. A lot of those guys showed their chops to the whole of Westeros and gained their reps there. He was also a kid when he fought that war whereas Dayne and Selmy had years of experience.

Ned was not fearful of Jaime at all. What was it he said? "I don't like people to know what I can do" when he was doing a bit of cock waving with Jaime. I suppose whatever GRRM says goes but I do think that Jaime would not have taken him lightly at all.

Ned may have been able to beat Jaime in an upset but I'd imagine he'd have taken an injury or two in the process.

Sleepy

I think we'll be seeing the Reeds next season tbh.

Jelle1880

No idea where to put this otherwise, but I'm sure some of those that have read the books would love to see this implemented in one of the episodes

Crucifix

Jelle1880 wrote: »

No idea where to put this otherwise, but I'm sure some of those that have read the books would love to see this implemented in one of the episodes

Another detail from the soundtrack was a track named

three blasts

. I'm guessing that could mean

three blasts at the fist of the first men being the last scene of the season

. It'd make a good cliffhanger!

Johnny Bitte

I m of the opinion now they should stop try to match season to book and just do seasons based on what they can cover. Even if it means 2 seasons per book.
Would really let them cover more and I'm sure HBO wouldnt mind the extra profit over the years.

yer wan playing yara/asha greyjoy is brilliant

Tenger

Sleepy wrote: »

Ned may have been able to beat Jaime in an upset but I'd imagine he'd have taken an injury or two in the process.

Remember that Ned fought the Kingsguard at the Tower of Joy. It was 7 v 3 and only 2 of the 7 walked away. So I think we can conclude the Ned was a pretty decent swordsman to have survived that.
Its not as if he would have allowed the other guys to go in first ahead of him. And those 3 knights were seen as the finest in the Kingdom, Arthur Dayne perhaps the finest in the history of the 7 Kingdoms.


Ned Stark, Howland Reed, Lord Willam Dustin, Ethan Glover, Martyn Cassel, Theo Wull, and Ser Mark Ryswell
versus
Ser Arthur Dayne, Ser Oswell Whent, and Lord Commander Gerold Hightower.

Gbear

Tenger wrote: »

Remember that Ned fought the Kingsguard at the Tower of Joy. It was 7 v 3 and only 2 of the 7 walked away. So I think we can conclude the Ned was a pretty decent swordsman to have survived that.
Its not as if he would have allowed the other guys to go in first ahead of him. And those 3 knights were seen as the finest in the Kingdom, Arthur Dayne perhaps the finest in the history of the 7 Kingdoms.


Ned Stark, Howland Reed, Lord Willam Dustin, Ethan Glover, Martyn Cassel, Theo Wull, and Ser Mark Ryswell
versus
Ser Arthur Dayne, Ser Oswell Whent, and Lord Commander Gerold Hightower.

Another thing to consider is that Ned would've had Ice.

From the descriptions of Dayne it seemed like being equipped with a valyrian blade made a significant difference.

If you have a two-handed greatsword with all the reach and power that entails but it's made of a lighter stronger metal you can see how it would make a difference. The strengths of a greatsword with the flexibility of a longsword.

titan18

Tenger wrote: »

Remember that Ned fought the Kingsguard at the Tower of Joy. It was 7 v 3 and only 2 of the 7 walked away. So I think we can conclude the Ned was a pretty decent swordsman to have survived that.
Its not as if he would have allowed the other guys to go in first ahead of him. And those 3 knights were seen as the finest in the Kingdom, Arthur Dayne perhaps the finest in the history of the 7 Kingdoms.


Ned Stark, Howland Reed, Lord Willam Dustin, Ethan Glover, Martyn Cassel, Theo Wull, and Ser Mark Ryswell
versus
Ser Arthur Dayne, Ser Oswell Whent, and Lord Commander Gerold Hightower.

From the books, Ned says he'd have died against Dayne if not for Howland Reed

Johnny Bitte

Gbear wrote: »

Another thing to consider is that Ned would've had Ice.

I would never have thought of Ned using Ice in battle, surely its two huge and would be be way to slow??

Was it ever mentioned in the book?

Gbear

Johnny Bitte wrote: »

I would never have thought of Ned using Ice in battle, surely its two huge and would be be way to slow??

Was it ever mentioned in the book?

It's a two-handed greatsword. Pretty standard equipment I would've thought.

And not to mention, Valryian steel is lighter than steel so it wouldn't be as ungainly as a normal double hander.

It'd be a shame to have such a fancy sword and only use it for executions.