Season 2 Episode 8 - *Have Not Read The Books* *Spoilers* *Mod Note Post #1*

ziedth

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

Very good episode.

Bit confused though, was it Varys who told Cersei that Ros was Tyrion's whore? I presume so due to their talk later.

I was wondering that too. Maybe a good poat for the question thread.

Dubhlinner

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

Very good episode.

Bit confused though, was it Varys who told Cersei that Ros was Tyrion's whore? I presume so due to their talk later.

ziedth wrote: »

I was wondering that too. Maybe a good poat for the question thread.

In the scene with Tyrion Cersei said "really a lannister lion necklace. you need to hide your whores more carefully"

I'm guessing this was meant to explain Cersei's mix up. Maybe Tyrion gave it to Ros for what happened with Joffrey. Or maybe some other Lannister did and Cersei had seen them together.

mikemac1

MikeCork2009 wrote: »

I'd say The Mountain, The Hound and his father!!!

Those three are all good options as skilled swordsmen who could beat him

But I was thinking of the captain of the Kingsguard in Series One.
I'm useless with names.
He was stripped of his title by Joffrey and he then stormed out of the city, I've no idea where he is now

I've a sneaking suspicion he will be back at some stage, maybe he's with the Brotherhood

Anyway, he was supposed to have been as superb solider as I remember

Mickeroo

mikemac1 wrote: »

Those three are all good options as skilled swordsmen who could beat him

But I was thinking of the captain of the Kingsguard in Series One.
I'm useless with names.
He was stripped of his title by Joffrey and he then stormed out of the city, I've no idea where he is now

I've a sneaking suspicion he will be back at some stage, maybe he's with the Brotherhood

Anyway, he was supposed to have been as superb solider as I remember

"Even now I could cut through the five of you like carving a cake" - Barriston Selmy

some legend that guy.

Didn't Ros leave Winterfell with Tyrion (or at least slightly after him) in Season 1? That's where Cersei could have gotten the idea from.

mikemac1

True, good point

That makes sense

Niall09

What is the brotherhood? Please only details from what we have seen in the series.

Tenger

Niall09 wrote: »

What is the brotherhood? Please only details from what we have seen in the series.

In Season 1 (ep 6 or 7 I think) we saw Ned Stark detailing some men to go and bring Gregor Clegane (The Mountain) to justice for attacking civilians property in the Riverlands. Ned couldn't go himself as he had been injured in the leg by Lannister men while fighting Jamie. (I think he also ordered the girls home in this episode, as he realised that **** was going downhill quite fast at this stage)

These men have retained their allegiance to King Robert and are attacking Lannister lines of supply. Hence the interrogation of prisoners at Harrenhal. Im not sure how much of a presence they will have in the TV show, shame that they haven't been explained in better detail. Even a throw-away comment about Baratheon retainers on the loose would cover it. The term Brotherhood could mean anything.

Block (8

ziedth wrote: »

So who do we think are the 3 men he thinks could match him in a fight?

Would Ned Stark be one of them (if being dead counts)

In season 1 Jamie was really eager to fight Ned but one of his guards stabbed Ned at the back of his leg

ziedth

Block (8 wrote: »

Would Ned Stark be one of them (if being dead counts)

In season 1 Jamie was really eager to fight Ned but one of his guards stabbed Ned at the back of his leg

I took it as Ned, Hound and mountain but the old captain of the kings guard is a great shout because even in season 1 Ned seemed in awe of him. I really really hope he comes back into it.

Sleepy

I think from the brief bit of swordplay we saw in Season 1 it was obvious that Ned was no match for Jaime in a one-on-one fight. We can surmise from his role in Robert's Rebellion that Ned was a good commander but nowhere do we see anything to big up his abilities with a sword.

Non book, non-tv-series info (though canon because of it's source) GRRM has said that

while Ned was a competent swordsman, his older brother Brandon (who made mincemeat of littlefinger for fun) had been "the sword" of the family before Mad King Aerys roasted him alive. Ned wouldn't have been any match for Jaime one on one but may well have beaten him in field (via better tactics as his son Robb did later)

ziedth

I'll have re watch it again but I seem to remember it was even enough fight. You could well be correct though.

I guess it was a throw away comment but funnily enough I was really hoping he would say who they are

Sleepy

I could hazzard a guess but I'd be basing it largely on the books.

From the conversation the Lannister guards were having before Robb's army took them, it's safe to say that Loras Tyrell would probably be one of the three.

Penn

I took it as being just a flippant, arrogant comment. Just claiming that as few as three men in the whole of Westeros might be able to beat him, and tall blonde girl (Brianne?) wasn't one of them. I doubt he put a whole lot of thought into it, he was just taunting her.

Sleepy

There's an element of that, however remember it's not totally unwarranted: he is a member of the Kingsguard who are supposed to be the finest knights in Westeros.

titan18

Sleepy wrote: »

I could hazzard a guess but I'd be basing it largely on the books.

From the conversation the Lannister guards were having before Robb's army took them, it's safe to say that Loras Tyrell would probably be one of the three.

Loras would't have a chance tbh. Out of 3, two imo are Sandor and Gregor, and the 3rd could well be Selmy since Jaime idolised him.

Sleepy

Don't let Loras's sexuality lead you astray... he's regarded as one of the best swordsmen in Westeros and as he proved against the Mountain when they jousted, he's not afraid to play dirty either

Mickeroo

Loras wouldn't stand a chance, both Brienne and the Mountain have kicked his ass already.

beardedmaster

VERY minor book spoiler (no big info, just a character you haven't met yet) -

The middle Tyrell brother, and second son, Garlan Tyrell, I'm guessing. He was said to practise his swordsmanship with 3-4 men at a time.

Funglegunk

Deleted User wrote: »

Didn't Ros leave Winterfell with Tyrion (or at least slightly after him) in Season 1? That's where Cersei could have gotten the idea from.

Cersei mentioned a lion necklace being found on Ros. Tyrion gave it to her in season 1, (I don't think you see Tyrion actually give it to her, but Theon sees it around her neck and comments on it).

Penn wrote: »

I took it as being just a flippant, arrogant comment. Just claiming that as few as three men in the whole of Westeros might be able to beat him, and tall blonde girl (Brianne?) wasn't one of them. I doubt he put a whole lot of thought into it, he was just taunting her.

Jaime's prowess with a sword is mentioned quite a few times. His own father refers to it when he says he is 'blessed with gifts few men possess', Theon mentions Jaime cut down ten Stark bannermen before eventually being captured, Jaime is on the verge of beating Ned in King's Landing before a Lannister guard interferes... etc. Also Littlefinger mentions betting against Jaime winning in a joust and losing his dagger to Tyrion.

Penn

What he said was probably near enough true, but the actual number three and who they might be would be the flippant part. For example, maybe he knows himself that the number is probably five. Saying three sounds better.

Funglegunk

Penn wrote: »

What he said was probably near enough true, but the actual number three and who they might be would be the flippant part. For example, maybe he knows himself that the number is probably five. Saying three sounds better.

The thing I love about Jaime's character is that we very, very rarely hear him tell a lie. He well believes it's only three people, is my guess.

touts

It was a slow one alright but I enjoyed it. I was somewhat surprised at Arya. She didn't hesitate to rush out to find Jaraed to order him to kill Lord Tyrwin. If she had found him Lord Tyrwin would probably be dead now. I thought she would at least hesitate given the relationship that has built up with Tyrwin over recent weeks. Also Jaraed seems to be a savage guy in a fight. All those guards dead at the end. You have to wonder how he got caught and was on his way to the wall in that prison cart.

I just don't get Cat leaving Jamie go with the female knight. At the very most you would think she would just have taken him away for a few days to hide until the mob calmed down. But sending him to Kingslanding with no gurantee that her daughters will be freed seemed foolish and really out of character.

I don't understand some of the earlier comments about Robb fecking up by sleeping with you one. As we saw with Ned (producing Jon Snow) and Robert (producing half the kids in Kings Landing it seems) the Lord/King sleeping with whoever he likes seems fairly tolerated if not accepted. He could still marry the other woman for the bridge but keep his bit on the side. Anyway how many of us have married the first person (or first few) we slept with so why should it be different in a world where morals seem to be even looser than here? It seems fairly clear that marriages at that level of seven kingdoms society are about alliances and not love.

I presume Theon is now going to obey his sister/father and abondon Winterfell. He captured it to win their approval and he isn't going to disobey them now. Also there is no way he could hold it with a small group of men while even a small force beseiged him and the people inside hated him. If we end up with Bran back in control of Winterfell and Theon doing a runner that would make that whole storyline fairly pointless.

Was disappointed to hear them say that it will be years before Dany's dragons are large enough to help her invade. That probably means we have that tangent of a story going on for a few seasons with her gathering support which is a pity as I would prefer to see all the storylines start to converge.

Joffrey on the frontline leading his men in battle. That'll be a good one to see. I would give him 30 seconds at best before they find him with 100 stab wounds. 2 from the front and 98 from behind. That said his brother has dropped off the radar completely so my initial feelings that he was being introduced and talked up out of the blue meant a coup was on the cards may have been wide of the mark. We really would have wanted to see him become a more central character by now if Joffrey was going to be overthrown.

sReq | uTeK

Sleepy wrote: »

I could hazzard a guess but I'd be basing it largely on the books.

From the conversation the Lannister guards were having before Robb's army took them, it's safe to say that Loras Tyrell would probably be one of the three.

Don't know about that he was easily tossed aside by Brienne.

Edit: I see someone already pointed it out.

ben.schlomo

touts wrote: »

It was a slow one alright but I enjoyed it. I was somewhat surprised at Arya. She didn't hesitate to rush out to find Jaraed to order him to kill Lord Tyrwin. If she had found him Lord Tyrwin would probably be dead now. I thought she would at least hesitate given the relationship that has built up with Tyrwin over recent weeks. Also Jaraed seems to be a savage guy in a fight. All those guards dead at the end. You have to wonder how he got caught and was on his way to the wall in that prison cart.

I just don't get Cat leaving Jamie go with the female knight. At the very most you would think she would just have taken him away for a few days to hide until the mob calmed down. But sending him to Kingslanding with no gurantee that her daughters will be freed seemed foolish and really out of character.

I don't understand some of the earlier comments about Robb fecking up by sleeping with you one. As we saw with Ned (producing Jon Snow) and Robert (producing half the kids in Kings Landing it seems) the Lord/King sleeping with whoever he likes seems fairly tolerated if not accepted. He could still marry the other woman for the bridge but keep his bit on the side. Anyway how many of us have married the first person (or first few) we slept with so why should it be different in a world where morals seem to be even looser than here? It seems fairly clear that marriages at that level of seven kingdoms society are about alliances and not love.

I presume Theon is now going to obey his sister/father and abondon Winterfell. He captured it to win their approval and he isn't going to disobey them now. Also there is no way he could hold it with a small group of men while even a small force beseiged him and the people inside hated him. If we end up with Bran back in control of Winterfell and Theon doing a runner that would make that whole storyline fairly pointless.

Was disappointed to hear them say that it will be years before Dany's dragons are large enough to help her invade. That probably means we have that tangent of a story going on for a few seasons with her gathering support which is a pity as I would prefer to see all the storylines start to converge.

Joffrey on the frontline leading his men in battle. That'll be a good one to see. I would give him 30 seconds at best before they find him with 100 stab wounds. 2 from the front and 98 from behind. That said his brother has dropped off the radar completely so my initial feelings that he was being introduced and talked up out of the blue meant a coup was on the cards may have been wide of the mark. We really would have wanted to see him become a more central character by now if Joffrey was going to be overthrown.

Hes promised to marry the other one over whose bridge he must travel to get back to Winterfell, so id say hes got a problem there now.

pixelburp

ben.schlomo wrote: »

Hes promised to marry the other one over whose bridge he must travel to get back to Winterfell, so id say hes got a problem there now.

Yeah but surely he can still marry the daughter, as already mentioned it's not like there isn't precedent with married couples coming to 'arrangements'.

Dubhlinner

pixelburp wrote: »

Yeah but surely he can still marry the daughter, as already mentioned it's not like there isn't precedent with married couples coming to 'arrangements'.

getting the impression from the way the scene was done that robb loves her and. he even said something like "i don't want to marry the frey"

Syferus

Robb's his father's son - honourable to a fault. He won't willingly marry someone he doesn't want to if there's someone he genuinely loves. Problems abound.

Block (8

Syferus wrote: »

Robb's his father's son - honourable to a fault. He won't willingly marry someone he doesn't want to if there's someone he genuinely loves. Problems abound.

You can look at it as Robb's his father's son - honourable to a fault so will honour his commitment and promise to marry because he is a king and it's the honourable thing to do?

It's all about hounor in those days

touts

Dubhlinner wrote: »

getting the impression from the way the scene was done that robb loves her and. he even said something like "i don't want to marry the frey"

When you're Rob's age (late teens/early 20s) you are passionately, deeply & completely in love with whatever bit of skirt is in front of you at the time. Also at that age you'll say anything to get a good looking girl into bed. "I don't want to marry the frey" could just be a great chat up line. I didn't marry the girl I was in love with back then and thank the new gods and the old ones that I didn't (she probably says the same thing). Wait till she starts eating chrisps in bed and nagging him about spending too much time with his mates some of whom are older and clearly a bad influence.

pickarooney

Who exactly is the girl Robb is supposed to marry? It seems a bit of an exaggeration to have to marry someone just to cross a poxy bridge.

Crucifix

pickarooney wrote: »

Who exactly is the girl Robb is supposed to marry? It seems a bit of an exaggeration to have to marry someone just to cross a poxy bridge.

One of the daughters of the lord of that bridge. I don't think they've picked which daughter, just agreed he'll marry one of them.
In the episode he made it sound like crossing the bridge was the only way he thought he'd be quick enough to save Ned (obviously he was still too late ), so he was pretty much willing to agree to anything.

Sleepy

The bridge at the Twins is the source of the Frey family's position of power in Westeros as it's the only means of quickly transporting an army across the river. As part of the deal Cat struck with Walder Frey to grant Robb's army the right of passage, she also got his troops for Robb's army. The price Walder Frey wanted was political marriages for one of his daughters to Robb and a son to Arya. The Frey's wouldn't be at the same level of society as the Starks/Lannisters/Baratheons etc. so these marriages will be valuable to the Frey family politically.

Tenger

pickarooney wrote: »

Who exactly is the girl Robb is supposed to marry? It seems a bit of an exaggeration to have to marry someone just to cross a poxy bridge.

As stated above, its not just 'a bridge' its the most important crossing point in the Riverlands. The Freys control the route from The North to the rest of the 7 Kingdoms......as well as having a large number of troops who the Starks want to have in their camp rather than undecided (or worse, with the Lannisters)

The Freys are a powerful family but do not have the history or prestige of other families in the kingdom. Also they are seen as untrustworthy in the backstory so the promised marriages tie them intimately to the Stark cause. (In theory they are uneasy subject of Catelyn's family, the Tully's)

Richard Dower

That girl Robb shagged had an incrediable body!!!!

Yes.....i'm watching every ep. - thought posting very little, obviously.

mikemac1

Arya and her friends now in the countryside

Will they continue North?
Or will they meet up with this brotherhood?

I don't know but I'd love to see more of the brotherhood

lynski

rewatching it now in anticipation of tomorrow night. should have the ironing done by now too but am enjoying it too much
just re-watched episode3 from season1 and jamie said his first kill was someone from the brotherhood, so they have been around since he was 16 at least.

beardedmaster

Different Brotherhood, lynski.

Tenger

lynski wrote: »

rewatching it now in anticipation of tomorrow night. should have the ironing done by now too but am enjoying it too much
just re-watched episode3 from season1 and jamie said his first kill was someone from the brotherhood, so they have been around since he was 16 at least.

I think the Kingswood Brotherhood were a band of outlaws when jamie was a boy, he squired for Barristem Selmy during the final battle to wipe them out.

The ambushed troops loyal to King Robert took on the name 'BrotherHood without Banners' to describe their position as outside the law of 'the false king Joffrey.'

pickarooney

Are we supposed to know any of these Frey people (from the series)?

beardedmaster

Nope! Just Walder Frey, the creepy ultra-old patriarch (aka Argus Filch).

Tenger

pickarooney wrote: »

Are we supposed to know any of these Frey people (from the series)?

They are untrustworthy vassals of the Tullys (Catelyns family, who are Lords of the Riverlands) and the patriarch has had about 8 wives and dozens of kids.

"Lord Frey is the only lord who has an army sprung from his loins"


So far not too important, (however they had to be dealt with as they control a vital river crossing) not sure how the TV show will portray them down the line.