A request and an insight into my personal stance on prize pots

PPC

I've always seen the fee to enter a tournament as a singular payment, if the organizers are splitting that into venue fees and pot then thats their decision, I'm just paying to enter and play.

If you still feel that its gambling, there are always casuals on Wednesday and Saturdays which would probably suit better.

Edit:
I should also say I don't gamble at all for personal reasons, but I don't see this as gambling as its not a game of chance, its a game that requires skill.

K.O.Kiki

I am completely against the idea of competitors entering a game of skill but not contributing to the pot.

The pot, as stated, pays for equipment & venue fees, with the rest going to the person who displays and executes the most SKILL, not luck.

It's not luck that stev0 has won the Evo qualifier two years in a row.
Nor is it luck that he & cobelcog win the most tournaments.
They are using their skill, and playing the equivalent of a sport, to determine a winner.


Also, as an atheist, I will express the belief that religion is a system of making you beholden to a human authority.

ayjayirl

Only we would go from fighting games to religion in one thread :pac:

I'd have to say that your beliefs are your own and you should go as you free choose to but I would argue that defining tournaments of skill as gambling is not right and smacks of someone telling you so to influence how you live.
As a tourney organiser, I wouldn't grant an exception unless it was for, and I'm sorry, a real reason. I don't want to get into a religion debate here in this forum but c'mon, really?

Does this mean we can't have tournaments on a Sunday? Or can't arrange beers afterwards? What is the point of this thread again?

Sabre0001

I wouldn't constitute an entry fee as gambling to be honest. As others have said, it's not a game of chance and you're not betting per se. You aren't betting on yourself to win - for example, I enter tournaments for fun and will be miles away from prize pots at the end of the day. So to me, it's like a trip to the cinema...

You COULD have a word with tournament organisers, but that should be a private discussion and I wouldn't be surprised if they politely told you no. You know the terms and conditions that go with tournaments and have to go with that. Euan Murray is a devout Christian rugby player and won't play on Sundays...But Scotland don't get an exemption from Sunday games as a result - he just doesn't get picked.

IF you aren't contributing to the prize pot, I would expect that your fee IN FULL would be used for consoles & community - but that pretty much means that more of someone else's fee is going to prize pot.

Azza

K.O.Kiki wrote:

It's not luck that stev0 has won the Evo qualifier two years in a row.

Your right, its not luck its fraud.

The existence of E.Honda proves there is no god.

No god, no matter how mysteriously he moves would ever have allowed the abomination of character design that is Edmund Honda to come to pass.

Vyze

So if a third party sponsors a tournament with prizes, that's acceptable?

Then, if I run a tournament and the entry fee goes towards costs of running the tournament and anything extra is donated to VaughanCorp - but coincidentally VaughanCorp sponsors the tournament with prize money, how does that work?

Just on a personal note, I'm happy enough to not give prize money if someone who turns it down for religious beliefs doesn't want it (passing it on to a charity or to buy extra equipment for the next event), but I wouldn't want someone entering the tournament who hadn't paid their way. The more people who are in a tournament, statistically, the more difficult it should be to win. If it's becoming more difficult for paying entrants to win due to non-paying entrants, that's not fair on the regular attendees. As was brought up earlier, imagine being knocked out of the tournament by someone who hadn't paid their way.

To be honest, since most people who enter tournaments (myself included in pretty much every game) know that they're not going to win, they're paying money for the experience and the fun of being in a tournament as opposed to "gambling" on a chance of winning.

Though as has been brought up before, if you want something that isn't being supplied (non-prize-money tournaments), you gotta run one for yourself! Everybody in Ireland who wanted something else that wasn't, at the time, being supplied (tournaments for less popular games), they went out and organised their own events to raise awareness and popularity.

Sairus

The stance I would take on this in any tournament I was running would be this:

If someone doesn't want the prize money for any reason they are still going to have to pay full price into the event. What they do with the prize money if they win is their business, so if they told me before the tournament that they wanted me to keep it and put it into a community fund or a charity or distribute it amongst the other winners, I would do that. They won after all - who am I to say what they can or cannot do with their winnings?

They would have to tell me though. I would not accept someone just telling me they were waiving their rights to the prize fund. I wouldn't take responsibility for choosing what's done with it though and risk them coming back and telling me I was wrong to donate it to Christmas Lights for Orphans instead of Preventing Poo From Ending up in Chrisp Packets.

As has been mentioned several times before, this looks like something that each TO would need to decide for themselves. I would recommend contacting any TO before an event to ask their stance before trying to enter.

On the other side, if a TO wants to run a tournament with no prize money for religious reasons then they are fully entitled to do that - just as any person who objects to tournaments run with religious rulings are free to not enter that tournament.

Azza wrote: »

The existence of E.Honda proves there is no god.

Short, snarky post followed with a loosely connected image?

That's what I'd call..

*sunglasses*

..the placebo effect.

Vyze

To be honest, I feel more bad for the Muslims at SVB in London, since it always seems to run during Ramadan. Can't be playing fightan gaems on an empty stomach!

ayjayirl

Sairus wrote: »

On the other side, if a TO wants to run a tournament with no prize money for religious reasons....

The Eucharistic Tournament of Ramadan - Revenge of the Apostles

next tournament I run.....:pac:

Sairus wrote: »

Short, snarky post followed with a loosely connected image?

That's what I'd call..

*sunglasses*

..the placebo effect.

:eek: LMAO - genius Sai.

Forest Demon

Leprekaun wrote: »

Its not a matter of what I choose and not choose to do in my religion so I try to do everything, without exception. I am devout to my religion and like I have previously mentioned, if I had known this before, I wouldn't have gotten involved in tournaments or ran tournaments with a prize pot so its not a case of "throwing the toys out of the pram" to try and manipulate the community. When I had previously had voiced my opinion about tournament entry fee, there were only few who agreed but the majority disagreed and that was fine, I conceded and any tournaments that were held after that, I paid the same entry fee as everyone else.

In terms of imposing myself on others with my stance, I'm not trying to impose my religious views on any of you. I'm just trying to find a good balance between the situation and my beliefs. In my opinion, religion is entirely a personal thing so whether or not you want to be religious, thats up to you, I'm not going to go round each of you and start saying "Have you ever of..." and all that carry on, I'll only be there to have a laugh and play some SF. If you wish to ask me about any of it, thats fine, I can answer to the best of my knowledge but I'm not going to try to change your mind because, like I said, its a personal thing, you make that decision.

In regards to whether this can be considered gambling or not, it is gambling. The only difference between betting on a football match and putting your own money into a prize pot is that you do have a clearer understanding of how good you are and can rate yourself compared to other players but even then, it is still gambling, because from one tournament to the next, some players might change characters which favour their matchups and disadvantage others. If you asked most people "Who'd win Evo this year?", they'd say "Daigo" but Fuudo won last year and there have been other times where Daigo was beaten so although he is most probable to win, it is not a certainty that he will.

So fair enough, it can be assumed that nothing is certain, that is the truth so there will always be an unknown factor in any situation. In the instance of tournaments here, I just feel that although there are the top 8 players who could each possibly win a tournament, sometimes they'll lose and sometimes they'll win. A direct comparison can be poker. Ok, so there are more unknown elements in poker but analogies can be made. Your cards could be your chosen fighter (Zangief Vs. Ryu -> Ryu's favour) and reading your opponent right, that would apply to any form of competition. But the same way you have a select few top poker players who always place highly, none of them always win.

So ok, now, there is a small predicament, how would anyone earn any money in sport if its considered gambling? Well, thats where a third party comes in. Say if GameStop chose to sponsor a tournament, awarding the winners with prize money / vouchers / gaming hardware etc., then in this case, it would be completely valid to have a tournament with prize money, as long as the winnings of the players aren't coming from other players.

Anyway, my original post was directed towards TOs in general, not necessarily to the community.

If the TOs can agree with me on this, I would greatly appreciate it as I do miss getting involved in tournaments but if they choose not to, thats fine.

This is interesting.

If you participate in a tournament then I don't see that as gambling. Think of the game as a sport or test of skill. If your motivation in entering the competition is to test your skill then that is the pay off. If you win then you can give the money back to the community or to charity but to be honest you earned it. It was not chance.

Most types of sport have an entrance fee and pay off for the participants. Its not a game of chance or a gamble. Its a test of skill and preparation. If you are paying for participation then I don't think its gambling.

Say you where a marathon runner and prepared for the Dublin Marathon. There is a cash prize if you win that but your participation in it is not gambling. Its a test of endurance, skill and preparation. If you win the money then you earned it with effort/work. Its not chance.

I am not questioning your religion and I do respect your beliefs by the way. I genuinely do not see participation in a tournament as gambling.

Azza

Sairus wrote:

Short, snarky post followed with a loosely connected image?

That's what I'd call..

*sunglasses*

..the placebo effect.

Ridiculous thread deserves ridiculous picture.

Anyway all that matters is that Hound thank my post and not yours :cool:

The Hound

Azza wrote: »

Ridiculous thread deserves ridiculous picture.

Anyway all that matters is that Hound thank my post and not yours :cool:

Too much reading going on in some posts. I like the short and straight to the point/picture posts.

This thread is gone crazy. The guy should just man up!

Placebo

Sairus wrote: »

Short, snarky post followed with a loosely connected image?

That's what I'd call..

*sunglasses*

..the placebo effect.

Being a Muslim, i fully endorse and encourage all sorts of prize pots and gambling. Dolla bills for all !

Ramza

MY FIGHT MONEYYYY