Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 MOD POST #1130

djPSB

Damien360 wrote: »

I agree they are being far more proactive than anyone could have imagined. But, do we strive to be mid-table or top of the pile ? Not sure we have the funds to attract talent.

On another thing. Why does an employees opinion (Stevie G) matter on the appointment of a manager. He had something to say about Roy Hodgsen, KD and he had another moment today speaking about Martinez. Does your boss ask you your opinion on your manager ?

We strive for a 4-5 year plan where we are consistently in the top 4.

I'd imagine they only consult key players who are vital to the success of the club. It's important that players like Gerrard, Suarez, Agger, Lucas stay around.

djPSB

Chucky the tree wrote: »

A piss poor team who had already been in the PL 4 years.

I think they are piss poor anyway.

I predict they will go down next season if Martinez leaves.

rossie1977

djPSB wrote: »

Martinez has avoided relegation for 3 successive seasons with a piss poor team.

when martinez took the wigan job they had just finished 11th, he has come nowhere near finishing 11th since

mick mccarthy avoided relegation for 2 successive seasons with wolves and more than likely would have made it 3 seasons in a row had he not been sacked (while they were outside the relegation zone)....

Washington Irving

@ barcastuff: During half-time, Guardiola reminded the players the 2005 CL final, when Liverpool won the trophy after losing 3-0 at half-time

It's nailed on now lads

:pac:

amiable

djPSB wrote: »

I think they are piss poor anyway.

I predict they will go down next season if Martinez leaves.

Law of probability is that they are due to go down anyway

amiable

So Brendan Rodgers is still in the mix

djPSB

amiable wrote: »

Law of probability is that they are due to go down anyway

Not really, this will be their 7th season in the PL.

amiable

djPSB wrote: »

Not really, this will be their 7th season in the PL.

Exactly

Damien360

djPSB wrote: »

We strive for a 4-5 year plan where we are consistently in the top 4.

And this requires big funding. We are a long, long way from there at the moment. My point being, have we the funds to do this ?

djPSB

Damien360 wrote: »

And this requires big funding. We are a long, long way from there at the moment. My point being, have we the funds to do this ?

I don't know.

Jesus Wept

djPSB wrote: »

We strive for a 4-5 year plan where we are consistently in the top 4.

I'd imagine they only consult key players who are vital to the success of the club. It's important that players like Gerrard, Suarez, Agger, Lucas stay around.

It's usually Carragher that weighs in by the sound of it.
Like that makese a jot of sense.

K-9

rossie1977 wrote: »

when martinez took the wigan job they had just finished 11th, he has come nowhere near finishing 11th since

mick mccarthy avoided relegation for 2 successive seasons with wolves and more than likely would have made it 3 seasons in a row had he not been sacked (while they were outside the relegation zone)....

He didn't have the money Bruce had, McCarthy had more money. He has seen off bigger clubs like Wolves, Birmingham and West Ham. Do people really expect mid table finishes from a club with the finances of Wigan?

Damien360

K-9 wrote: »

He didn't have the money Bruce had, McCarthy had more money. He has seen off bigger clubs like Wolves, Birmingham and West Ham. Do people really expect mid table finishes from a club with the finances of Wigan?

Everton have had less than wigan for years and they managed a mid table finish with two 10p coins to rub together. The manager is critical to survival but funding makes a team all conquering.

Not sure if your argument is defending or attacking him.

K-9

Damien360 wrote: »

Everton have had less than wigan for years and they managed a mid table finish with two 10p coins to rub together. The manager is critical to survival but funding makes a team all conquering.

Not sure if your argument is defending or attacking him.

How long is Moyles there?

Hannibal

Damien360 wrote: »

Everton have had less than wigan for years and they managed a mid table finish with two 10p coins to rub together. The manager is critical to survival but funding makes a team all conquering.

Not sure if your argument is defending or attacking him.

I suppose Fellaini £15m, Yakubu £11.5m, Bilyaletdinov £9m, Heitinga £7m and Baines £6m is less than what Wigan had?

Wigan have been picking up the likes of Moses £2.5m, McCarthy £1.2m and Maloney £1m while selling players like Valencia, Palacios, Cattermole, N'Zogbia and Baines.

Sappy404

Those looking at Martinez's achievements alone - promotion with Swansea to the Championship, keeping Wigan up - aren't doing him justice. Similarly though people saying he's the right man for the job because he has had Wigan playing excellent football aren't going to convince me he's the right man.

He's clearly an excellent young manager destined for bigger things, but it would be a massive risk to give him this job at this stage.

Oranage2

Matinez is a mid table maneger will people realize Pool are are mid table team!

Jesus Wept

Oranage2 wrote: »

Matinez is a mid table maneger will people realize Pool are are mid table team!

CL7

Oranage2 wrote: »

Matinez is a mid table maneger will people realize Pool are are mid table team!

Well if one of the most respected posters on boards says it's true then we have no choice but to accept it I guess.

Oranage2

CL7 wrote: »

Well if one of the most respected posters on boards says it's true then we have no choice but to accept it I guess.

Well who do you you hope otherwise, Jesus of Nazzerate?

Liverpool had their chance at a world class manager Hodgson and they messed it up!

Jesus Wept

Oranage2 wrote: »

Well who do you you hope otherwise, Jesus of Nazzerate?

Never heard of the lad.

mormank

Oranage2 wrote: »

Well who do you you hope otherwise, Jesus of Nazzerate?

Liverpool had their chance at a world class manager Hodgson and they messed it up!

Jesus wept.

NukaCola

Oranage2 wrote: »

Well who do you you hope otherwise, Jesus of Nazzerate?

Liverpool had their chance at a world class manager Hodgson and they messed it up!

Yawn.....must try harder....


you spelt orange wrong....

NukaCola

mormank wrote: »

Jesus wept.

Jesus of Nazzerate?

Leiva

You do realise that with a couple of bad injuries and Martinez continuing his Wigan form-then next season could see us in a battle at the wrong end of the table.

Just something to think about on this beautiful day .

Handsome Bob

Oranage2 wrote: »

Liverpool had their chance at a world class manager Hodgson an
d they messed it up!

Lol, carry on, good entertainment on a fine saturday morning.

Grayditch

Please don't feed this one, it can't even spell.

Liverpool could be set back a long time if we don't get this one right.

I don't know how people are equating Martinez keeping Wigan in the PL with Liverpool coming in the top 4, like one could lead to another. That's scary optimism there.

Turtyturd

CL7 wrote: »

Well if one of the most respected posters on boards says it's true then we have no choice but to accept it I guess.

Post of the Year.:D

To be fair I don't think he is an out and out troll, he seems more like a thanks whore, judging from his other posts.

So have we made any underwhelming developments on our underwhelming search for an underwhelming manager?

Liam O

Leiva wrote: »

You do realise that with a couple of bad injuries and Martinez continuing his Wigan form-then next season could see us in a battle at the wrong end of the table.

Just something to think about on this beautiful day .

I seriously doubt that would be the case, but sure if he has a couple of bad results he'll be chased out anyway before he gets the chance to change things at Liverpool...

mike65

Leiva wrote: »

You do realise that with a couple of bad injuries and Martinez continuing his Wigan form-then next season could see us in a battle at the wrong end of the table.

Sure if the last season had continued until September Dalglish would have got LFC relegated!

The latest Harry Harris nonsense on ESPN

http://www.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/152491.html?CMP=OTC-RSS

redzerdrog

Oranage2 wrote: »

Well who do you you hope otherwise, Jesus of Nazzerate?

Liverpool had their chance at a world class manager Hodgson and they messed it up!

poor attempt to troll tbh

Leiva

redzerdrog wrote: »

poor attempt to troll tbh

Poor form from everyone biting .

At this stage people should know just to ignore. Not via ignore button, just common sense.

And if next season pans out like I think it will then I am hoping everyone has a bucket full of common sense.









says the guy that got a week in solitary confinement for ranting at a WUM :P

Turtyturd

Reason number 67 Martinez should not get the job.....fans of other teams want him to get it but wouldn't be happy with him at their club.

ush

Martinez would at least respect the owner's wishes and not settle for Wembley nostalgia.

djPSB

All we need now is Willy.

Leiva

ush wrote: »

Martinez would at least respect the owner's wishes and not settle for Wembley nostalgia.

Wembley nostalgia ???????

you know what never mind !

Turtyturd

ush wrote: »

Martinez would at least respect the owner's wishes and not settle for Wembley nostalgia.

Who did that?

Sappy404

Turtyturd wrote: »

Reason number 67 Martinez should not get the job.....fans of other teams want him to get it but wouldn't be happy with him at their club.

Not exactly a good barometer.

Leiva

Turtyturd wrote: »

Who did that?

:pac:

murpho999

About Martinez though if it is him (which I'm not convinced it is).

Over the last 3 seasons he has spent £8m, £9.1m & £6.7m whilst in the meantime selling the like of Valencia and N'Zogbia.

All that nice net spend info is here.

Wouldn't any manager struggle to keep them up at that level?

Could Martinez have done any more?

Also, what if Liverpool are actually unearthing the next big manager?

What had Shankly done before LFC, Wenger before Arsenal, Mourinho before Porto.....etc

I think FSG are looking for a younger manager who will be there long term to build up a successful dynasty and not someone in their sixties like Kenny and Roy are, and Capello etc.

Definitely a gamble to take Martinez.....is it one that should be taken is the big question.

gafferino

Has there been any more on txiki joining as dof? Would much prefer that to lvg. Do you reckon of their interviewing managers than the dof is already appointed?

Sappy404

gafferino wrote: »

Has there been any more on txiki joining as dof? Would much prefer that to lvg. Do you reckon of their interviewing managers than the dof is already appointed?

I heard during the week that he was interested but hadn't been approached.

Who knows though. He could be in place already for all we know.

Pro. F

Martinez would be such a ridiculous appointment for a club in Liverpool's situation.

This is my understanding of what Liverpool are right now: a club with owners who want to get back into the top four; a club with owners willing to spend a decent chunk of money, but who might run out of patience if success doesn't come soon; a club with a very famous name and history; a club who will currently have trouble attracting big name players because of the lack of CL football; a squad with a fair bit of quality and a fair few flaws. I may be wrong on some of that so I'm open to correction.

All of the above (especially the money) should be easily enough to entice a proven quality manager. Somebody with a top end track record, or at least a young guy who has done something exceptional if you're feeling like taking a risk. Martinez is neither of those things. He is a young guy who has shown some good signs and some bad signs and is in no way an exceptional prospect. Martinez is a guy for a club with midtable budget and ambitions - a Fulham, Villa, WBA, etc. He may or may not prove himself at such a club, but Liverpool don't need to take that risk.

Even if somebody wants to say that they think the budget the owners are going to make available is not that big, they should still aim for a top class manager. The club has a history and name that can be leveraged. You can guarantee that when the job became available, every single manager who would consider working in England sat up and paid attention. And managers are a lot cheaper than players. Even if the budget is small, the manager is the last thing that Liverpool should be skimping on.

This experiment of using the American sports approach to management is interesting. With KD you had a manager who had won stuff in the past and who the fans loved and trusted, so at least it was a risk that you could live with. But when the American approach means you are now looking at Martinez as your manager, that just seems like taking the piss.

It may all work out. In five years time there may be an excellent scouting outfit bringing in players, an excellent DOF department representing the club, shaping strategy and choosing coaches accordingly, and a top to bottom water tight structure meaning the coaches job is straightforward and success is easily quantifiable. That may all happen, but I remain sceptical and I'm glad it's not my club doing the experiment.

Leiva

It's only a matter of time now.

The captain has been rolled out now to say his piece .

Gerrard.
Roberto has my full support

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2150285/Steven-Gerrard-backs-Roberto-Martinez-Liverpool-job.html

ush

Leiva wrote: »

It's only a matter of time now.

The captain has been rolled out now to say his piece .




http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2150285/Steven-Gerrard-backs-Roberto-Martinez-Liverpool-job.html

Gerrard hasn't been rolled out to answer a question or support Martinez. He's respectfully answering a question about a managerial candidate. What else is he supposed to do in that situation?

NukaCola

Leiva wrote: »

It's only a matter of time now.

The captain has been rolled out now to say his piece .




http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2150285/Steven-Gerrard-backs-Roberto-Martinez-Liverpool-job.html

That was said at a press conference for England. He said he didnt here any news of Martinez being the next Liverpool manager but would get behind his appointment.......certainly not scripted


Edit - what ush said

Kess73

murpho999 wrote: »

About Martinez though if it is him (which I'm not convinced it is).

Over the last 3 seasons he has spent £8m, £9.1m & £6.7m whilst in the meantime selling the like of Valencia and N'Zogbia.

All that nice net spend info is here.

Wouldn't any manager struggle to keep them up at that level?

Could Martinez have done any more?

Also, what if Liverpool are actually unearthing the next big manager?

What had Shankly done before LFC, Wenger before Arsenal, Mourinho before Porto.....etc

I think FSG are looking for a younger manager who will be there long term to build up a successful dynasty and not someone in their sixties like Kenny and Roy are, and Capello etc.

Definitely a gamble to take Martinez.....is it one that should be taken is the big question.

That the second or third time that example has been trotted out by Liverpool supporters on here. Bill Shankly was a second division manager when he took over at Liverpool. Liverpool FC were a second division club in a poor state on and off the pitch when he took over, so Shank's experience as a manager was at the same level that Liverpool FC was at, and had been at for some time.



Wenger had won the title with Monaco long before he went to Arsenal and was being chased by the likes of Bayern Munich before he ended up in Japan. If Monaco had not held Wenger to his contract then he would have ended up as the manager of Bayern rather than actually going to Japan, so he was on the radar of big clubs long before the english media announced his arrival at Arsenal as if he was some kind of unknown in world football.




Mourinho did not have a long track record as a senior manager alright, and had far les senior manager experience than Martinez does now,but he did work under both Robson and Van Gaal, with the latter pushing Mourinho's career big time whilst both were at Barca. Also what got Mourinho the Porto job was how he was doing in the same division as Porto with a team far smaller than Wigan in terms of financial resources.


Martinez, if he gets the job, may or may not do well but his appointment would be far more of a gamble than any of the above managers imho.

Jose was over achieving in Portugal with a tiny team, and he was showing that he could get a team with tiny resources fighting for a CL spot before Porto snapped him up. So he was showing he could match the big boys of that division on a showstring.

Wenger had silverware to his name and was already sought after by two huge clubs long before his Arsenal days begun, so he had some degree of a track record in terms of managing a winning team and winning stuff.

Bill had to be convinced to take over at Liverpool, and the club was really doing badly when he took over. The club was not getting a manager that had no experience at the level the club was at, and Bill was quoted as saying that if he had known exactly how bad things were at Liverpool that he might not have taken the job.


Martinez on the other hand has three seasons of skin of the teeth survival with Wigan, and a win % of around 26% whereas Mourinho had one of around 50% with a tiny club in the top division in Portugal. Also a lot gets made of the time Martinez spent at Swansea, but many leave out that half his time there was spent in what is the third divison in England and only one year was spent in the Championship. 34 games is all that Wigan have won over three seasons in all comps under Martinez. Now that does not mean that the man could not up his game to a massive degree with financial backing, but his seven wins from nine towards the end of this season seems to be what is making his name much as Hodgson's run to the Europa cup final seemed to make his name with the then Liverpool owners.

But whilst 7 wins from 9 games is impressive, he is also the man who oversaw 8 league games lost in a row in the same season.

For me there are more proven managers available right now and I would like to think that the club would go after the more proven managers first and if the proven guys say no, then work down the short list towards the likes of Martinez.

Sappy404

Pro. F wrote: »

Martinez would be such a ridiculous appointment for a club in Liverpool's situation.

This is my understanding of what Liverpool are right now: a club with owners who want to get back into the top four; a club with owners willing to spend a decent chunk of money, but who might run out of patience if success doesn't come soon; a club with a very famous name and history; a club who will currently have trouble attracting big name players because of the lack of CL football; a squad with a fair bit of quality and a fair few flaws. I may be wrong on some of that so I'm open to correction.

All of the above (especially the money) should be easily enough to entice a proven quality manager. Somebody with a top end track record, or at least a young guy who has done something exceptional if you're feeling like taking a risk. Martinez is neither of those things. He is a young guy who has shown some good signs and some bad signs and is in no way an exceptional prospect. Martinez is a guy for a club with midtable budget and ambitions - a Fulham, Villa, WBA, etc. He may or may not prove himself at such a club, but Liverpool don't need to take that risk.

Even if somebody wants to say that they think the budget the owners are going to make available is not that big, they should still aim for a top class manager. The club has a history and name that can be leveraged. You can guarantee that when the job became available, every single manager who would consider working in England sat up and paid attention. And managers are a lot cheaper than players. Even if the budget is small, the manager is the last thing that Liverpool should be skimping on.

This experiment of using the American sports approach to management is interesting. With KD you had a manager who had won stuff in the past and who the fans loved and trusted, so at least it was a risk that you could live with. But when the American approach means you are now looking at Martinez as your manager, that just seems like taking the piss.

It may all work out. In five years time there may be an excellent scouting outfit bringing in players, an excellent DOF department representing the club, shaping strategy and choosing coaches accordingly, and a top to bottom water tight structure meaning the coaches job is straightforward and success is easily quantifiable. That may all happen, but I remain sceptical and I'm glad it's not my club doing the experiment.

Everyone's skeptical. What we know, though, is that they're going after young, talented managers who have their teams playing excellent football. So the signs are good. Until they actually appoint someone and announce how the managerial structure will work, I'm reserving judgement.

ush

FSG aren't interested in a Jose or a Shankly. They want someone who'll fit into a structure that they're putting in place. Under FSG the manager isn't going to be the one sorting out or revolutionising the club. He'll be working to a brief. I reckon FSG got their fingers burnt under Dalglish and aren't willing to go down that line again.

They want someone who is competent enough to keep discipline, pick a starting eleven and make necessary tactical and sub changes during a game. Thats it.

The manager will be briefed what to say to the media by the DOC. DOF will organise will keep the philosophy of the club and have the overall responsibility.

Barnes' article on the official website was, in my opinion, the owners spelling this out.

Personally I think Barnes should be an ambassador for the club.

NukaCola

Sappy404 wrote: »

Everyone's skeptical. What we know, though, is that they're going after young, talented managers who have their teams playing excellent football. So the signs are good. Until they actually appoint someone and announce how the managerial structure will work, I'm reserving judgement.

IMO Martinez style of football when they have the ball is good, maybe very good for a team of Wigans stature.....nowhere near excellent...defensively they are shocking.....

That should rule him out?