Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 MOD POST #1130

Vanolder

Kess73 wrote: »

-Ade- wrote: »

God I hope we get some decent business done and as soon as possible. Been a long time coming, but even still, I'm feckin' proper gutted and what has transpired up the road. Really stresses how ****ing stupid are transfer policy was last summer.

12m for Kagawa really does put some of the transfer fees we paid out into context.

Just goes to show how horribly overpriced English "talent" is.

I just said as much elsewhere... It's enough to make you cry!

gafferino

anyone hear anymore on discussion with Txiki?

Gbear

Laika1986 wrote: »

I cant see Suarez being sold lads, as it stands we will struggle to attract big players as it is. I'd imagine alot of players would look at Liverpool and think I wouldnt mind playing with him etc.

On a sidenote does anyone else reckon Johnson will be sold?

Might be worth it hanging on to him for another year.

I think we'd still get a fair bit for him next year. We can't replace every position at once and there's no guarantee that a replacement would be anywhere near as good.

LuckyLloyd

English players are rubbish relative to the prices they trade for and their ability when compared to options from the rest of Europe. Just look at their squad!

murpho999

Why are people panicking over a newspaper rumour of a bid for Suarez?

mike65

Lack of anything else to post about, nothing of any interest is likely to happen before July so this thread is going to get very dull indeed.

rossie1977

Kess73 wrote: »

12m for Kagawa really does put some of the transfer fees we paid out into context.

Just goes to show how horribly overpriced English "talent" is.

talent only costs what you are willing to pay for them, look at man utd spending €30m on anderson and liverpool getting lucas for €5m the same year, man utd spent as much on bebe as they did on hernandez

Morzadec

Laika1986 wrote: »

I cant see Suarez being sold lads, as it stands we will struggle to attract big players as it is. I'd imagine alot of players would look at Liverpool and think I wouldnt mind playing with him etc.

On a sidenote does anyone else reckon Johnson will be sold?

Gbear wrote: »

Might be worth it hanging on to him for another year.

I think we'd still get a fair bit for him next year. We can't replace every position at once and there's no guarantee that a replacement would be anywhere near as good.

Johnson is one of our key first team players imo, and one of the top attacking-rightbacks in world football. There's no hope of getting someone as good as him to replace him in Rodgers system - remember we'll be looking at our fullbacks to provide the main width in our team.

Kelly is a great deputy to have but he's not as good as Johnson going forward.

I don't want to lose any of our key first team players.

Johnson should thrive under Rodgers and he had a very solid season last year as well.

Leiva

The way I see this summer and next season is akin to removing a plaster.

I would rather we take a quick sharp pain and do all the hard stuff (moving players, taking hit on money etc) in the next twelve months rather than a slow pulling drawn out process that takes a couple of seasons to complete.

Nuri Sahin

Galliani reaffirmed Milan are not not interested in signing Aquilani earlier on today.

Dickerty

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

English players are rubbish relative to the prices they trade for and their ability when compared to options from the rest of Europe. Just look at their squad!

No, SOME are lacking. You can't say that Hart, Terry, Cole, Lampard, Gerrard or Rooney are not great players...

Boom_Bap

-Ade- wrote: »

Galliani reaffirmed Milan are not not interested in signing Aquilani earlier on today.

I'm pretty sure this is how Milan negotiate. I doubt this is over yet.

Gbear

Morzadec wrote: »

Johnson is one of our key first team players imo, and one of the top attacking-rightbacks in world football. There's no hope of getting someone as good as him to replace him in Rodgers system - remember we'll be looking at our fullbacks to provide the main width in our team.

Kelly is a great deputy to have but he's not as good as Johnson going forward.

I don't want to lose any of our key first team players.

Johnson should thrive under Rodgers and he had a very solid season last year as well.

Rather than us selling him for feck all or his contract running out, getting 10 million or so for him and getting a new younger player in is something we have to look at.
Otherwise we could end up with a player in a physically demanding position declining but still drawing top-level wages.
We might get 2 or 3 years out of him but in the longer term he'll have to be replaced anyway. May as well try to minimise the cost of doing that.

witnessmenow

Morzadec wrote: »

Johnson is one of our key first team players imo, and one of the top attacking-rightbacks in world football. There's no hope of getting someone as good as him to replace him in Rodgers system - remember we'll be looking at our fullbacks to provide the main width in our team.

Kelly is a great deputy to have but he's not as good as Johnson going forward.

I don't want to lose any of our key first team players.

Johnson should thrive under Rodgers and he had a very solid season last year as well.

I think it depends

If someone offered £20m we would be mad not too take it.

I even think £15M would be an acceptable price for him, I think he could be replaced by someone of similar ability for £10m + less wages.

IMO he is a good player, but he certainly isnt irreplaceable

LuckyLloyd

Dickerty wrote: »

No, SOME are lacking. You can't say that Hart, Terry, Cole, Lampard, Gerrard or Rooney are not great players...

No, but the top seven English Internationals hardly define the player base as a whole, right?

Phil Jones / Downing / Henderson £20m? How much did David Bentley cost Spurs a few years back?

The issue is not individual successes or failures, it is the consistent overvaluation of English talent merely because they're English. Check out how much Arda Turan or Kagawa are going for two summers in a row. Players do not exist independent of their transfer fee. Andy Carroll is going to be Andy Carroll - the problem is that if he had cost £10m we'd be sitting here talking about his promise and feeling mighty good about ourselves.

Laika1986

Morzadec wrote: »

Johnson is one of our key first team players imo, and one of the top attacking-rightbacks in world football. There's no hope of getting someone as good as him to replace him in Rodgers system - remember we'll be looking at our fullbacks to provide the main width in our team.

Kelly is a great deputy to have but he's not as good as Johnson going forward.

I don't want to lose any of our key first team players.

Johnson should thrive under Rodgers and he had a very solid season last year as well.

While i agree with ya that he would suit the system perfectly and will be equally hard to replace he's very injury prone and long term we need to start looking for a replacement now. I wouldn't be shocked to see him end up in spain by the end of the year

Gbear

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Andy Carroll is going to be Andy Carroll - the problem is that if he had cost £10m we'd be sitting here talking about his promise and feeling mighty good about ourselves.

We would, but that doesn't make it rational.

Making the mistake of not giving a young player (particularly in a position that tends to mature later) enough time doesn't somehow make up for the mistake of overpaying for them.

missingtime

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/transfers/tastiest-12-in-the-euro-shop-window-7815105.html

Dickerty

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

No, but the top seven English Internationals hardly define the player base as a whole, right?

Phil Jones / Downing / Henderson £20m? How much did David Bentley cost Spurs a few years back?

The issue is not individual successes or failures, it is the consistent overvaluation of English talent merely because they're English.

That is because the supports like to have a core of English players, and cause you don't have to worry about then adapting to the English game.

What about Rooney, Rio, Shearer and Beckham? All signed for big money, but all proved to be worth it...

Not defending them, the average price is always inflated, but the same can be said for Italian players bought by top Italian clubs, and same for Spanish...

mike65

Who signed Beckham? :eek:

anplaya

^^unless madrid are an english team?

Kess73

Dickerty wrote: »

That is because the supports like to have a core of English players, and cause you don't have to worry about then adapting to the English game.
What about Rooney, Rio, Shearer and Beckham? All signed for big money, but all proved to be worth it...

Not defending them, the average price is always inflated, but the same can be said for Italian players bought by top Italian clubs, and same for Spanish...

Liverpool's record with English players suggests that you do have to worry about them adapting. If you look at Liverpool's bigger money buys from the last 15 to 20 years, the English transfers have a higher % in terms of players not being able to fit in quickly despite them already being used to the league.

A look through the transfers in Spain, Italy, Germany, France etc show that players from those countries generally don't have anywhere near the same level of overpricing that goes on with English players in England. The top talents fetch the biggest fees, but average players in those countries generally don't go for massive fees on a regular basis.

Beckham did not sign for any big money whilst in England, he came through the ranks at United.

Vicxas

missingtime wrote: »

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/transfers/tastiest-12-in-the-euro-shop-window-7815105.html

Love the fact that we're almost always linked with all the up and coming guys.

Dickerty

I wasn't saying Beckham was signed by an English club, just about whether he was overvalued....

Kess73

Dickerty wrote: »

I wasn't saying Beckham was signed by an English club, just about whether he was overvalued....

Beckham was not even close to being overvalued when he was sold. He was probably the most marketable player on the planet at the time, and it was pretty much a sure thing that whatever club managed to buy him would recoup the transfer fee a few times over in merchandise sales.

Think it was reported that his shirt sales alone had paid back the £25m transfer within 12 months of him joining Real.

Cyrus

Kess73 wrote: »

Beckham was not even close to being overvalued when he was sold. He was probably the most marketable player on the planet at the time, and it was pretty much a sure thing that whatever club managed to buy him would recoup the transfer fee a few times over in merchandise sales.

Think it was reported that his shirt sales alone had paid back the £25m transfer within 12 months of him joining Real.

werent real shocked at how little united wanted for him

missingtime

Cyrus wrote: »

werent real shocked at how little united wanted for him

Think Ferguson was sick of the sight of him and just wanted a quick sale.

I wouldn't like to see Johnson go as he had a good season, and should slot in Rodgers style of play comfortably.

However, if the club received a big offer for him, given the wages he is on, I'm sure they'd accept it. It's business.

Hopefully it doesn't happen though.

On another note, he should never be on wages in excess of 100k, it's crazy ! Not his fault though tbf.

Knex*

I'd forgotten Johnson is now on 120k a week. I'd quite like to be able to forget it again tbh.

missingtime

How do we actually know players wages? Is it not all speculation?

Kess73

Kess73 wrote: »

Beckham was not even close to being overvalued when he was sold. He was probably the most marketable player on the planet at the time, and it was pretty much a sure thing that whatever club managed to buy him would recoup the transfer fee a few times over in merchandise sales.

Think it was reported that his shirt sales alone had paid back the £25m transfer within 12 months of him joining Real.

Didn't Ronalo's shirt sales exceed the £80m they paid for him within the first year or something ridiculous like that also? Can't remember the details exactly.

Kess73

rarnes1 wrote: »

Didn't Ronalo's shirt sales exceed the £80m they paid for him within the first year or something ridiculous like that also? Can't remember the details exactly.

Yeah they made crazy money back on him through merchandise as well.

missingtime

missingtime wrote: »

How do we actually know players wages? Is it not all speculation?

That's true.

The highest figure I seen for Johnson's wages was £140k a week and the lowest was £80k a week !

Really hope it's nearer the latter

LuckyLloyd

Look lads, if you try hard enough you can come up with some sort of justification for selling most of our best players:

- Suarez: put "racism" behind us;
- Johnson: big wages;
- Gerrard: won't fit the system / getting on;
- Skrtel: a big offer could be put to use elsewhere;

Let's not play this game eh? The instant justification and rationalising of the Meireles sale on deadline day last year was embarrasing.

Right now we have a squad without much depth, a manager who will struggle to attract top foreign talent on the strength of his name, no champions league football, and potentially limited funds. We need to fight tooth and ****ing nail to keep any player in this squad who is decent or better.

If we let Johnson go we will get an inferior replacement. Ditto Suarez, ditto Skrtel. Wake the **** up here.

missingtime

rarnes1 wrote: »

That's true.

The highest figure I seen for Johnson's wages was £140k a week and the lowest was £80k a week !

Really hope it's nearer the latter

The worst thing about the whole player x is on such and such is its mostly a stick to beat them with which is entirely unfair imo.

Gbear

Kess73 wrote: »

Yeah they made crazy money back on him through merchandise as well.

Madrid's total revenue is only about €500m.

The €100m that Ronaldo cost could only be offset by a very tiny amount in merchandising unless he singlehandedly doubled their commercial revenue or something.

witnessmenow

Gbear wrote: »

Madrid's total revenue is only about €500m.

The €100m that Ronaldo cost could only be offset by a very tiny amount in merchandising unless he singlehandedly doubled their commercial revenue or something.

Doesnt Real Madrid take 50% of a players private deals?

amiable

witnessmenow wrote: »

Doesnt Real Madrid take 50% of a players private deals?

I do believe that to be true but I can't be arsed searching for a link

slingerz

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Look lads, if you try hard enough you can come up with some sort of justification for selling most of our best players:

- Suarez: put "racism" behind us;
- Johnson: big wages;
- Gerrard: won't fit the system / getting on;
- Skrtel: a big offer could be put to use elsewhere;

Let's not play this game eh? The instant justification and rationalising of the Meireles sale on deadline day last year was embarrasing.

Right now we have a squad without much depth, a manager who will struggle to attract top foreign talent on the strength of his name, no champions league football, and potentially limited funds. We need to fight tooth and ****ing nail to keep any player in this squad who is decent or better.

If we let Johnson go we will get an inferior replacement. Ditto Suarez, ditto Skrtel. Wake the **** up here.

Is your glass always half empty? I'm not saying they should be sold but I have faith in Rodgers to bring in decent players. The bit about the manager is something i take issue with because I think outside of Pep, Mourinho and probably Fergie i dont see the players caring as long as its a 'big' club and looks to be going places in the future.

Suarez is the only player id definitely keep, I think Johnson and Skrtel can be replaced alright but then again the only defenders I'd keep from the current squad would be Kelly, Agger and Enrique as well as the likes of Robinson/Flanagan.

Leiva said it best when he described the transition of squads would be best done like removing a plaster, do it quick and minimise the pain/discomfort so you can begin to get back on with things

mayordenis

slingerz wrote: »

Suarez is the only player id definitely keep, I think Johnson and Skrtel can be replaced alright but then again the only defenders I'd keep from the current squad would be Kelly, Agger and Enrique as well as the likes of Robinson/Flanagan.

You'd keep Enrique but get rid of Johnson? Johnson is infinitely better in basically every way.

LuckyLloyd

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Look lads, if you try hard enough you can come up with some sort of justification for selling most of our best players:

- Suarez: put "racism" behind us;
- Johnson: big wages;
- Gerrard: won't fit the system / getting on;
- Skrtel: a big offer could be put to use elsewhere;

Let's not play this game eh? The instant justification and rationalising of the Meireles sale on deadline day last year was embarrasing.

Right now we have a squad without much depth, a manager who will struggle to attract top foreign talent on the strength of his name, no champions league football, and potentially limited funds. We need to fight tooth and ****ing nail to keep any player in this squad who is decent or better.

If we let Johnson go we will get an inferior replacement. Ditto Suarez, ditto Skrtel. Wake the **** up here.

Summer brings shíte talk unfortunately.

I think everyone knows we are screwd if sell our best players, and I doubt anyone seriously them out either !

This summer should tell us alot.

amiable

Suarez out

LuckyLloyd

slingerz wrote: »

Is your glass always half empty? I'm not saying they should be sold but I have faith in Rodgers to bring in decent players. The bit about the manager is something i take issue with because I think outside of Pep, Mourinho and probably Fergie i dont see the players caring as long as its a 'big' club and looks to be going places in the future.

Suarez is the only player id definitely keep, I think Johnson and Skrtel can be replaced alright but then again the only defenders I'd keep from the current squad would be Kelly, Agger and Enrique as well as the likes of Robinson/Flanagan.

Leiva said it best when he described the transition of squads would be best done like removing a plaster, do it quick and minimise the pain/discomfort so you can begin to get back on with things

- faith based on what? He's paddling in a much bigger pool now;
- right now, our club doesn't look to be going places in any way, shape or form. Rodgers is, realistically, part of that perception. If you really think his pulling power would equal that LVG as a topical example well...you are entitled to your opinion;
- Johnson and Skrtel replaced, with who? My glass is very much half full in terms of their performances for us last year. They have their prime years to come and they seem to love the club;
- as I've said before, the more business you do in one window the lower the quality of players you are bringing in will be. And in terms of keeping the likes of Suarez / Agger on board, the last thing we need is chaos and a fractured squad;

missingtime

missingtime wrote: »

The worst thing about the whole player x is on such and such is its mostly a stick to beat them with which is entirely unfair imo.

Perhaps but if a player is on massive wages and turning in shíte performances week in week out, it's bound to be questioned at some stage.

Francie Barrett

This whole season should be about guaranteeing 4th place and using that as the foundation to build on a title challenge for next season. It's impossible to see Man City not being in the top 4, they have the most strength in depth of any team in the world right now. Man United never finish outside of the top 4 and it's hard to see that happening this year. Chelsea are also going to be rejuvenated next season. The Hazard/Torres/Ramires/Hulk/Mata combination is going to tear most teams apart. That effectively leaves one spot open between ourselves, Arsenal and Spurs. I can see Spurs losing a few of their big name players, so that realistically leaves the spot between ourselves and Arsenal. If RVP leaves, Arsenal will definitely struggle as many of their other attacking options have been misfiring. I think it is vital that we capitalize on the weakness Arsenal have shown in recent seasons.

Paully D

What do Liverpool fans think of Rodgers comments today that he's using Liverpool as a stepping stone and a shop window? He's also had a go at the previous manager. Not the smartest of PR moves.

So why did you leave?

I've always said - always - that I'm not the type to chase money. That wasn't a factor in my decision. I've always outlined that I have a career plan, and Liverpool is my next step in that. They're a step to the overall goal.

What is the overall goal?

If I told you that I'd have to kill you! No, really, it's no secret. I want to win things. I suppose every manager does. I believe I can do that with Liverpool, or at least give myself the platform to show that I'm capable of doing that. That's the thing, even just being at a club like Liverpool gives you the platform to show what you can do. You have greater exposure. It puts you in the shop window so to speak, rather than in the warehouse.

What attracted you to Liverpool

It's the shop window, as I said. When I was with Watford I was the same manager I was with Swansea. Maybe a few less wrinkles! Being at Swansea - in the Premier League - was a platform. Being at Liverpool is an even bigger platform. They're a great, historical club.

What do you think you're capable of achieving with Liverpool?

I think I'm capable of giving the team a defined style of play, that they've lacked for a couple of years really. You look at teams like Manchester United, Manchester City, Chelsea, Tottenham even Stoke, Swansea - you know how they play, and more importantly they know how they play. I don't know what's gone on before I came here, but it's football management at it's most basic. That will be the first thing I look to implement.

What players are you looking forward to working with?

All of them. I know that sounds like a cop out answer, but it's true. There's a danger when you start elevating one player's importance above the others. You've seen that in the England National team and you even saw that at Liverpool last year, which I won't get into.

killwill

mayordenis wrote: »

You'd keep Enrique but get rid of Johnson? Johnson is infinitely better in basically every way.

Really?
I thought Enrique was one of ye're better players. Great LB but lacks a decent cross.
Am I wrong?

LuckyLloyd

Paully D wrote: »

What do Liverpool fans think of Rodgers comments today that he's using Liverpool as a stepping stone and a shop window? He's also had a go at the previous manager. Not the smartest of PR moves.

Anything he says right now is being fawned over.

LuckyLloyd

killwill wrote: »

Really?
I thought Enrique was one of ye're better players. Great LB but lacks a decent cross.
Am I wrong?

Meh, was sloppy and mistake prone the second half of the season.

Gbear

witnessmenow wrote: »

Doesnt Real Madrid take 50% of a players private deals?

Wow, clever business.

Still, unless his deals are worth 25m+ it's still not as if it pays for itself. Beckham probably would've brought in the same ballpark amounts as ronaldo for sponsorship and merchandising, i'd imagine, but he cost 1/4 of what ronaldo did. I could see beckham paying for himself but it would take an awfully long time to pay back €100m.