Anyone ever nasty to you for being Irish

Doc Ruby

Ms.M wrote: »

I think as post-colonising nations go, the UK is pretty sound. British mainstream culture has changed a lot in the last few decades.

Thank goodness for that. Just a quick copy of that abstract linked to earlier:

This paper is concerned with the question of the Irish in Britain, who constitute a major immigrant and ethnic minority group. It is argued that race relations theorists have constructed specific racialised accounts of ethnic minorities in Britain. These representations serve both to deny that the Irish are an ‘authentic’ ethnic minority and to negate their claim that they experience anti-Irish racism.

There has been a remarkable collusion between British sociological theorists, race-relations organisations, and the media in this denial. Academics have developed empirical and conceptual frameworks in which they concentrate on particular sections of selected ‘non-white’ social groups, namely those of African-Caribbeans and Asians. This approach - the colour paradigm — continues the long academic tradition of ‘over
racialising' the representation of ‘non-white' social collectivities, while denying the possibility of white groups being racialised minorities.

Elsewhere, I have explored these inter-connecting processes more fully (see Mac an Ghaill 1999). Here, I want to focus upon the 'deracialisation' of the Irish in Britain. I shall explore a number of inter-related aspects to illustrate this claim, namely: a socio-historical perspective, theoretical accounts, and Irish political mobilisation, involving the establishment of their status as an ethnic minority and their challenging of anti-Irish racism.

A socio-historical view: an economic and cultural project
In British race and ethnic relations literature, Irish immigrants in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries are perceived as one of the main recipients of British colonial exploitation with accompanying forms of racial discriminatitm (Curtis 1984; Engels 1969; Husband 1982; Jackson 1963). As Mary Hickman has argued so brilliantly in Religion, Class and Identity (1995), colonial racism stemming from Anglo-Irish relations and the construction of the Irish (Catholic) as a historically significant other of the English/ British (Protestant) have formed the experience of the Irish in Britain. In such historical accounts what emerges are themes that explore the complexities of the processes of the racialisation of Irish immigrants and labour migrants and focus upon issues of British imperialism, colonialism, mass immigration and radal discrimination.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A1irt%C3%ADn_Mac_an_Ghaill

Máirtín Mac an Ghaill is a former Professor in Sociology at the University of Birmingham, now at Newman University College, Birmingham. He is the author of The Making of Men: Masculinities, Sexuality and Schooling (1994)[1] and Contemporary Racisms and ethnicities (1999).
He did his undergraduate degree at University of Liverpool and his MSc and PhD at the University of Aston. He was professor of Education at University of Sheffield and Newcastle University before moving to Birmingham.

IrishAm

IrishAm wrote: »

Going well here until we got to the last line. Its ok to slag off the Irish but not blacks/Indians/Paks/Bangla/Iraqis etc?

Why so?



Utter, utter drivel.

Ethnic minorities me hole. We live in a globalised world.

Only a white person could ever say this. It is truly laughable that anyone could compare a bit of banter and occasional ignorance/rudeness towards the Irish (the days of NO IRISH signs are long gone and the Irish are now welcomed with open arms almost everywhere) to the racism experienced by non-whites.

I am in the fairly unique position of both being Irish and looking non-white (I'm only part Mediterranean and the rest Irish/English but am often taken for Indian or Pakistani) and believe me, the chilling comments I get for being a 'Paki' and the condescending attitude are a million times worse than any stupid Paddy joke. As a white person, nobody knows where you're from unless you open your mouth. And even then, it's unusual to face abuse for being Irish. As someone perceived as non-white, you're in danger of abuse at all times just because of the way you look. I used to live on Dorset Street in Dublin and racial abuse was an almost weekly occurrence. And almost as bad was the patronising attitude from a lot of Irish people, talking slowly to me even though I have an Irish accent, smirking when I claimed to be Irish, asking where I'm 'really' from. And I'm well aware that I got it mild - I'd HATE to be a black person living a majority white society.

Eve Dublin is 100% right about the way black people are treated in Spain. I've witnessed the police beating Africans many times. I had a black English friend who was regularly stopped by the police and asked for ID just for being black.

It's shockingly naive to think that a globalised world means that people aren't victims of racial abuse and discrimination. It's shockingly naive to think that there aren't still ethnic minorities in European countries. The UK might be very diverse, but it's still over 90% white. Outside the capital and other major cities, it's very, very white.

A white person living in a white society is very fortunate. You are far, far less likely to face discrimination and abuse than other racial groups, regardless of your background. You are the 'norm'. You will never understand what it's like to look different and be treated on the basis of your skin colour. Eve Dublin is right, it's downright insulting for an Irish person to see themselves as victimised in 2012. If anything, being Irish is a positive these days.

Doc Ruby

Liam Round Rig wrote: »

(the days of NO IRISH signs are long gone and the Irish are now welcomed with open arms almost everywhere)

Been keeping up with the news, have we?

Liam Round Rig wrote: »

Eve Dublin is right, it's downright insulting for an Irish person to see themselves as victimised in 2012. If anything, being Irish is a positive these days.

I know its 600 odd posts, but you might try reading the thread before wading in with your (unsupported) righteous indignation.

Doc Ruby

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Been keeping up with the news, have we?


I know its 600 odd posts, but you might try reading the thread before wading in with your (unsupported) righteous indignation.

I have read the thread. I was obviously referring more to the UK than Australia, but my point still stands. Sure, give me a few isolated examples of Irish people being discriminated against (ONE job advert asking Irish not to apply), it still pales in comparison to how other groups are and have always been treated. Please let me know when you get a brick thrown at you because of the colour of your skin or when you're spat at in the street for holding hands with an Australian.

If anything, you're a perfect example of how Irish people automatically expect not to be discriminated against. I don't remember seeing many posts of outage at how the 'abos' are treated, but when it's the Irish, oh shock horror. The article you linked to is only newsworthy because it's so unusual. Of course it's not right. Of course it's ignorant. But for many other groups, this is life. Every single day.

Doc Ruby

Liam Round Rig wrote: »

Please let me know when you get a brick thrown at you because of the colour of your skin or when you're spat at in the street for holding hands with an Australian.

Oh, so because Irish people don't get as much racism as a black guy in Jim Crow America, its all fine? Marvellous.

None of it is acceptable. Ever.

Liam Round Rig wrote: »

If anything, you're a perfect example of how Irish people automatically expect not to be discriminated against.

What a bizarre thing to say. Of course Irish people should expect not to be discriminated against. This is a basic expectation everyone should have.

Liam Round Rig wrote: »

I don't remember seeing many posts of outage at how the 'abos' are treated, but when it's the Irish, oh shock horror.

I don't remember seeing many posts about the second great rectification in Mindanao, the Philippines either. This is an Irish forum, we talk about Irish stuff. Although now you mention it, there were quite a few mentions of the treatment aborigines got and are getting in Australia in the thread at the time.

Liam Round Rig wrote: »

The article you linked to is only newsworthy because it's so unusual. Of course it's not right. Of course it's ignorant. But for many other groups, this is life. Every single day.

The academic paper I linked to in the post just above your inglorious entry (from "Sarf London") into the discussion has been cited 28 times, and would argue differently. The Eastenders episode with its criminally racist depiction of the Irish, leading to an official apology by the BBC, is not an event in isolation, nor is that "NO IRISH NEED APPLY" advert.

Doc Ruby

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Oh, so because Irish people don't get as much racism as a black guy in Jim Crow America, its all fine? Marvellous.

None of it is acceptable. Ever.

I said it wasn't acceptable. I never said it was fine. Stop being so dramatic. My point is that it's downright insulting to compare banter and the very occasional bit of bigotry to what other groups face.

What a bizarre thing to say. Of course Irish people should expect not to be discriminated against. This is a basic expectation everyone should have.

Yes, that everyone should have. Should is the key word. Unfortunately, most non-white people don't take that for granted like the Irish do.

I don't remember seeing many posts about the second great rectification in Mindanao, the Philippines either. This is an Irish forum, we talk about Irish stuff. Although now you mention it, there were quite a few mentions of the treatment aborigines got and are getting in Australia in the thread at the time.

I'm backing up Eve Dublin's point that the Irish experience very little real discrimination in this day and age.

The academic paper I linked to in the post just above your inglorious entry (from "Sarf London") into the discussion has been cited 28 times, and would argue differently. The Eastenders episode with its criminally racist depiction of the Irish, leading to an official apology by the BBC, is not an event in isolation, nor is that "NO IRISH NEED APPLY" advert.

Your rudeness and faux academic tone aren't intimidating to me. You will find academic papers backing up almost anything. Am I claiming that nobody is ever racist towards the Irish? Not at all. I'm saying that it's ridiculous to compare being a white Irish person to an ethnic minority in a Western country. But keep going. You're only making it more and more clear that as a white person, you have absolutely no idea how easy you have it. I don't need to trawl the internet for isolated examples of racism, I've experienced it personally more times than I can remember. When was the last time you were abused on the street for being Irish?

Mallei

You're deliberately fighting a straw man. Doc Ruby isn't saying that the Irish have it much harder than every other ethnic group, which is the battle you seem to have decided to wage. You're trying to discredit him by being ostensibly obtuse with your arguments.

He's saying that racism against the Irish exists (it does), is still quite prevalent, particularly in certain countries (like England), and should be stopped (it should). To try and counter that by saying "but sure, blacks and asians have it worse" is disingenuous at best and downright offensive at worst.

Just because someone has it worse doesn't make the suffering of the Irish any better.

Fratton Fred

Mallei wrote: »

You're deliberately fighting a straw man. Doc Ruby isn't saying that the Irish have it much harder than every other ethnic group, which is the battle you seem to have decided to wage. You're trying to discredit him by being ostensibly obtuse with your arguments.

He's saying that racism against the Irish exists (it does), is still quite prevalent, particularly in certain countries (like England), and should be stopped (it should). To try and counter that by saying "but sure, blacks and asians have it worse" is disingenuous at best and downright offensive at worst.

Just because someone has it worse doesn't make the suffering of the Irish any better.

Suffering?

It is obvious Doc has never been to England, but have you?

Mallei

Mallei wrote: »

You're deliberately fighting a straw man. Doc Ruby isn't saying that the Irish have it much harder than every other ethnic group, which is the battle you seem to have decided to wage. You're trying to discredit him by being ostensibly obtuse with your arguments.

He's saying that racism against the Irish exists (it does), is still quite prevalent, particularly in certain countries (like England), and should be stopped (it should). To try and counter that by saying "but sure, blacks and asians have it worse" is disingenuous at best and downright offensive at worst.

Just because someone has it worse doesn't make the suffering of the Irish any better.

I don't agree that racism against the Irish is prevalent. That's my point.

I live in England and have never witnessed any kind of racism against any one of my many Irish friends. If anything, people like you more for being Irish. I don't see this 'suffering of the Irish'. That's my point. I've never met anyone who felt that they hadn't got a job for being Irish or had been abused in the street for being Irish or that they had been refused a flatshare for being Irish. I've met people who have had scuffles in pubs with English chavs but I've met just as many English people who experienced the same or worse in Ireland.

If you think I'm simply saying, 'stop moaning, other people have it worse' then you have completely missed my point. I'm saying that you can't take a few isolated examples of discrimination and then claim that it's not insulting to feel as victimised as other groups.

cameramonkey

Liam Round Rig wrote: »

I

I I've met people who have had scuffles in pubs with English chavs but I've met just as many English people who experienced the same or worse in Ireland.

.

i don't really believe this .

golden lane

Doc Ruby wrote: »

What? It means "hill" in old and middle english.

a bender is for bending things.......but used in another context......

Mallei

Liam Round Rig wrote: »

I've met people who have had scuffles in pubs with English chavs but I've met just as many English people who experienced the same or worse in Ireland.

That's, quite simply, not true. You've met English people who have come to Ireland and been targetted by the locals for being English, to the point they get attacked? Where in Ireland? You're going to need to back up such ridiculous assertions.

Fratton Fred

Mallei wrote: »

That's, quite simply, not true. You've met English people who have come to Ireland and been targetted by the locals for being English, to the point they get attacked? Where in Ireland? You're going to need to back up such ridiculous assertions.

There was an English guy beaten to death about five years for being English.

Mallei

Mallei wrote: »

That's, quite simply, not true. You've met English people who have come to Ireland and been targetted by the locals for being English, to the point they get attacked? Where in Ireland? You're going to need to back up such ridiculous assertions.

My God, it's hilarious how people only notice discrimination when it's happening to them. I've seen it from all sides. Yes, I saw as much, if not more, anti-English bigotry in Ireland than I have anti-Irish bigotry in England. I'm not sure why that's so hard for you to believe. You really think there aren't plenty of knackery Sinn Fein supporters in Ireland who wouldn't start on an English person in a pub? But you have no trouble believing an English person would do it to an Irish person? Funny.

I had an English accent when I first moved to Ireland and experienced plenty of hostility. I've seen several fights start because an Irish person has said something to an English person, on hearing their accent. Up North and in Dublin. It's not a common occurrence, but neither is the opposite situation. In general, I found way more anti-English sentiment in Ireland than the other way around.

But sure, go on believing you're oppressed because you're Irish. It's rather amusing. I actually feel lucky to come from a background where I actually see things as they are. I'm as English as I am Irish. I'm as foreign as I am local. I don't have an agenda. All I can tell you is that having white skin and an Irish accent puts you in a better position than most in the world. Of all the things I am, being seen as Irish as by far the easiest. Give me a Father Ted reference over 'Paki c*nt' any day.

cameramonkey

Liam Round Rig wrote: »

knackery Sinn Fein supporters in Ireland who wouldn't start on an English person in a pub?

I actually feel lucky to come from a background where I actually see things as they are.

Good to see that you can see things as they actually are and have no sort of bias against anyone. I wish we could all be as enlightened as you who see everyone as equal.

bwatson

Mallei wrote: »

The Welsh are ok, not like the English.

Mallei wrote: »

Where in Ireland? You're going to need to back up such ridiculous assertions.

:pac:

Do you not think this argument has got silly now? Its become almost a competition to see who can prove they are on the recieving end of more prejudice!

IrishAm

Liam Round Rig wrote: »

Only a white person could ever say this. It is truly laughable that anyone could compare a bit of banter and occasional ignorance/rudeness towards the Irish (the days of NO IRISH signs are long gone and the Irish are now welcomed with open arms almost everywhere) to the racism experienced by non-whites.

Let it out. Embrace the hate you have for people of european descent.

I am beige in the winter, blue when I am cold and a rather bronze colour now due to the strange thing in the sky that we don't see much of, in Ireland.

Never white, but.

But "white" people are the most accepting people on the planet. "White" people are vilified for being "white".

cameramonkey

cameramonkey wrote: »

Good to see that you can see things as they actually are and have no sort of bias against anyone. I wish we could all be as enlightened as you who see everyone as equal.

Stop being a drama queen and twisting my words. It's true - growing up in several places and coming from a very mixed background does give you a different perspective. I'm always an outsider, basically. It's human nature to think that your country's people are sound and that wouldn't ever pick on anyone for their nationality. Unfortunately, it's just not true, in either country.

Ms.M

Liam Round Rig wrote: »

Stop being a drama queen and twisting my words. It's true - growing up in several places and coming from a very mixed background does give you a different perspective. I'm always an outsider, basically. It's human nature to think that your country's people are sound and that wouldn't ever pick on anyone for their nationality. Unfortunately, it's just not true, in either country.

I wouldn't say it's human nature. Only very insular folk think like that. Or young ones, which maybe a lot of these posters are. You don't need to be mixed-race to see the world without blinkers.

Doc Ruby

Liam Round Rig wrote: »

I said it wasn't acceptable. I never said it was fine. Stop being so dramatic. My point is that it's downright insulting to compare banter and the very occasional bit of bigotry to what other groups face.

When the national embassy is getting involved because of the insanely racist depiction of their country by the most popular soap opera on the air, its gone well beyond a bit of banter. Note also that the complaints were coming from Ireland, so presumably the english viewership didn't see much wrong with it.

Liam Round Rig wrote: »

Yes, that everyone should have. Should is the key word. Unfortunately, most non-white people don't take that for granted like the Irish do.

Sorry, that doesn't excuse what you said. You seem to feel that Irish people should expect to be discriminated against. Interesting.

Liam Round Rig wrote: »

I'm backing up Eve Dublin's point that the Irish experience very little real discrimination in this day and age.

With what, your own strident sarf landan anecdotes?

Liam Round Rig wrote: »

Your rudeness and faux academic tone aren't intimidating to me. You will find academic papers backing up almost anything. Am I claiming that nobody is ever racist towards the Irish? Not at all. I'm saying that it's ridiculous to compare being a white Irish person to an ethnic minority in a Western country. But keep going. You're only making it more and more clear that as a white person, you have absolutely no idea how easy you have it. I don't need to trawl the internet for isolated examples of racism, I've experienced it personally more times than I can remember. When was the last time you were abused on the street for being Irish?

Laughable. Deny the actual scientific research from a very credible source then wander off on a tirade about how racism is okay against Irish (or other white) people, because non white people have it worse.

Liam Round Rig wrote: »

My God, it's hilarious how people only notice discrimination when it's happening to them.

This is your whole point right here. Discrimination happens to other people, so it can't possibly be happening to Irish people, and if it does, its not important.

bwatson wrote: »

:pac:

Do you not think this argument has got silly now? Its become almost a competition to see who can prove they are on the recieving end of more prejudice!

And look who else weighed in. Who's missing from the usual cast.

Oh right.

The hysteria from the northern unionist and english sides here is quite telling really. So ingrained in their culture and mentality is the comfortable assertion that the Irish are "inferior" somehow, which after almost a thousand years of propaganda (see previous link from the Telegraph) is perhaps understandable, that any evidence this notion is wrong is seen as a direct personal attack on them.

They literally can't function when this cornerstone of their existence is taken away. Hence the strident shrieks and endless, baseless anecdotes from sarf landan, in the face of definitive evidence, research and even national incidents.

No amount of evidence is sufficient. Its become an article of faith for them. To face the reality would further be to take responsibility for the myriad of vile acts perpetrated on this country, on the innocent, which again isn't something they signed up for.

Not everyone in the UK is like this of course, the majority certainly aren't, but the sorry specimens that regularly show up in these threads sadly fit the bill.

IrishAm

Liam Round Rig wrote: »

I'm always an outsider, basically.

Aha, most revealing.

Explains your hatred of people of european descent.

IrishAm

IrishAm wrote: »

Let it out. Embrace the hate you have for people of european descent.

I am beige in the winter, blue when I am cold and a rather bronze colour now due to the strange thing in the sky that we don't see much of, in Ireland.

Never white, but.

But "white" people are the most accepting people on the planet. "White" people are vilified for being "white".

I AM of European descent. 100% European. Looking non-white to some people (the mixture of my parents' features has somehow made me look more foreign than either of them) has given me an insight into how it must be to actually be non-white and to be treated like s**t much more often than I am. This is something most white Irish people will never experience.

Ms.M

IrishAm wrote: »

Aha, most revealing.

Explains your hatred of people of european descent.

Liam Round Rig is of European descent. Read her posts.

[Sorry! You beat me to it, I shouldn't post on your behalf!]

IrishAm

Liam Round Rig wrote: »

I AM of European descent. 100% European. Looking non-white to some people (the mixture of my parents' features has somehow made me look more foreign than either of them) has given me an insight into how it must be to actually be non-white and to be treated like s**t much more often than I am. This is something most white Irish people will never experience.

If you look non white then you probably aint 100% european.

Check the postman.:)

Anyway, people of european descent are the most accepting people on the planet.

Bar none. The most vilified too.

Doc Ruby

This is my last post on the topic.

Doc Ruby wrote: »

When the national embassy is getting involved because of the insanely racist depiction of their country by the most popular soap opera on the air, its gone well beyond a bit of banter. Note also that the complaints were coming from Ireland, so presumably the english viewership didn't see much wrong with it.


Sorry, that doesn't excuse what you said. You seem to feel that Irish people should expect to be discriminated against. Interesting.

Nope. I feel that reaching adulthood without experiencing real prejudice is something a lot of people can only dream of. One of my best friends here is a British Pakistani. He learned from a very early age that a lot of people dislike him because he's brown. That people abuse him in the street because he's brown. He's been conditioned to expect to be treated badly and is pleasantly surprised when he isn't. The fact discrimination is something shocking for you surely tells you that you can't compare your experiences as an Irish person to those of other ethnic minorities? This, I believe, was Eve Dublin's point.

With what, your own strident sarf landan anecdotes?

You do realise I don't live in South London? That's a private joke you probably wouldn't get. I've travelled and lived abroad on an Irish passport, I have an Irish accent and am living here in England, I have an Irish father, boyfriend and loads of Irish friends in different parts of the UK and abroad and not ONE of them has reported racism or xenophobia. So where is all this discrimination, exactly? Where? The only time my being Irish is ever brought up is to comment on my accent, which is generally described as sexy, lovely or beautiful. Hard life, indeed.

This is your whole point right here. Discrimination happens to other people, so it can't possibly be happening to Irish people, and if it does, its not important.

You really have the blinkers on. Amusing. No, my point is that people tend to notice discrimination when it happens to them. They don't tend to walk around observing how other people are being treated. If you don't understand that, I can't help you.

IrishAm

IrishAm wrote: »

If you look non white then you probably aint 100% european.

Check the postman.:)

Anyway, people of european descent are the most accepting people on the planet.

Bar none. The most vilified too.

I only look non-white to Irish people and the odd English person because I'm tanned. Like a lot of Mediterraneans. I also have quite big lips, from my mum's side which makes some people think I must be part black. She's the whitest English person around. It was funny when I moved over to America in my teens and was just a white girl. They found it hilarious that I would have been seen as anything else back home. But there you go. Kind of proves how silly the whole 'race' thing is.

Doc Ruby

Liam Round Rig wrote: »

Nope. I feel that reaching adulthood without experiencing real prejudice is something a lot of people can only dream of. One of my best friends here is a British Pakistani. He learned from a very early age that a lot of people dislike him because he's brown. That people abuse him in the street because he's brown. He's been conditioned to expect to be treated badly and is pleasantly surprised when he isn't. The fact discrimination is something shocking for you surely tells you that you can't compare your experiences as an Irish person to those of other ethnic minorities? This, I believe, was Eve Dublin's point.

Who said it was shocking to me? For some bizarre reason, among many bizarre comments you have made, you keep bringing skin colour into this. Nobody denies that racism exists, but you seem to have a serious problem admitting it exists to any extent against Irish people, in the face of considerable evidence.

Liam Round Rig wrote: »

So where is all this discrimination, exactly? Where?

I can roll out ten anecdotes to every one you can, and it will be worth just as much. These difficulties with actually reading provided links by the "can't be racist against Irish people" gallery are a most peculiar form of blindness.

Liam Round Rig wrote: »

You really have the blinkers on. Amusing. No, my point is that people tend to notice discrimination when it happens to them. They don't tend to walk around observing how other people are being treated. If you don't understand that, I can't help you.

I have to wonder how deep this rabbit hole goes. This above, it makes no sense. I mean on the surface its basically gramatically correct, but if I'm not mistaken you're trying to labour out the concept that Irish people don't notice discrimination against other people by english people, so making Irish people, what...? Besides being insanely wrong.

IrishAm

Liam Round Rig wrote: »

British Pakistani.

If he lives in London, he cannot say he is a minority. Because he aint.

90% of victims of racial murders in London are people wholly of european descent.

A Donegal man was murdered by British Pakistanis a couple of months ago for being white.

Kinda blows the whole "we beez oppressed" argument outta the water.

cameramonkey

Liam Round Rig wrote: »

Stop being a drama queen and twisting my words. It's true - growing up in several places and coming from a very mixed background does give you a different perspective. I'm always an outsider, basically. It's human nature to think that your country's people are sound and that wouldn't ever pick on anyone for their nationality. Unfortunately, it's just not true, in either country.

im not being a drama queen. All I am doing is pointing out your prejudices.You seem to think you have none but it is pretty obvious that you do have prejudices against certain people. just because you grow up with 2 cultures dosnt make you more enlightened in fact it seems in your case to have made you close your eyes to certain realities.

cloud493

I've never been 'seriously' discriminated against for being English, but my friend told me he got the **** kicked out of him once for it/ But you wouldn't know if that was just a bunch of knackers looking for an excuse to kick the **** out of someone really.

Ms.M

cameramonkey wrote: »

im not being a drama queen. All I am doing is pointing out your prejudices.You seem to think you have none but it is pretty obvious that you do have prejudices against certain people. just because you grow up with 2 cultures dosnt make you more enlightened in fact it seems in your case to have made you close your eyes to certain realities.

How is the poster have blinkers on? She/He is not implying that bigotry towards Irish people is acceptable (she/he is Irish btw), she is only saying we don't experience this bigotry to the same extent as other people. For some it's a daily battle and has a massive impact on the life they live.

Edit: [Sorry, you meant the knacery shinner thing, mixed you up with another poster.]

cameramonkey

cloud493 wrote: »

I've never been 'seriously' discriminated against for being English, but my friend told me he got the **** kicked out of him once for it/ But you wouldn't know if that was just a bunch of knackers looking for an excuse to kick the **** out of someone really.

i would say that is a pretty good summary of what i as an Irish person experienced in the UK. Petty stupidity is common in all nations.

Ms.M

IrishAm wrote: »

If he lives in London, he cannot say he is a minority. Because he aint.

90% of victims of racial murders in London are people wholly of european descent.

A Donegal man was murdered by British Pakistanis a couple of months ago for being white.

Kinda blows the whole "we beez oppressed" argument outta the water.

False and racist.

cameramonkey

Ms.M wrote: »

How is the poster have blinkers on? She/He is not implying that bigotry towards Irish people is acceptable (she/he is Irish btw), she is only saying we don't experience this bigotry to the same extent as other people. For some it's a daily battle and has a massive impact on the life they live.

I didnt say he had blinkers. he calls other people knackery. That is not the position of a non bigot. All I am doing is pointing to his prejudices, which he claims not to have.

IrishAm

Ms.M wrote: »

False and racist.

False and racist me hole.

Point out either assertions, if you will.

Ms.M

90% of victims of racial murders in London are people wholly of european descent.

False

the whole "we beez oppressed" argument

Racist!

Ms.M

cameramonkey wrote: »

I didnt say he had blinkers. he calls other people knackery. That is not the position of a non bigot. All I am doing is pointing to his prejudices, which he claims not to have.

Apologies camermonkey, I already amended my post; see edit.

cameramonkey

Ms.M wrote: »

Apologies camermonkey, I already amended my post; see edit.

no problem.

IrishAm

Ms.M wrote: »

False




Racist!

Not racist at all and 100% factual. Actually, 50% of the victims of racial murders in the whole of the UK have been people of wholly european descent.

Which blows the "vulnerable minorities" fable out of the water.

Nearly half of all victims of racially motivated murders in the last decade have been white, according to official figures released by the Home Office.

The Guardian.

Fratton Fred

Doc Ruby wrote: »

When the national embassy is getting involved because of the insanely racist depiction of their country by the most popular soap opera on the air, its gone well beyond a bit of banter. Note also that the complaints were coming from Ireland, so presumably the english viewership didn't see much wrong with it.


Sorry, that doesn't excuse what you said. You seem to feel that Irish people should expect to be discriminated against. Interesting.


With what, your own strident sarf landan anecdotes?


Laughable. Deny the actual scientific research from a very credible source then wander off on a tirade about how racism is okay against Irish (or other white) people, because non white people have it worse.


This is your whole point right here. Discrimination happens to other people, so it can't possibly be happening to Irish people, and if it does, its not important.


And look who else weighed in. Who's missing from the usual cast.

Oh right.

The hysteria from the northern unionist and english sides here is quite telling really. So ingrained in their culture and mentality is the comfortable assertion that the Irish are "inferior" somehow, which after almost a thousand years of propaganda (see previous link from the Telegraph) is perhaps understandable, that any evidence this notion is wrong is seen as a direct personal attack on them.

They literally can't function when this cornerstone of their existence is taken away. Hence the strident shrieks and endless, baseless anecdotes from sarf landan, in the face of definitive evidence, research and even national incidents.

No amount of evidence is sufficient. Its become an article of faith for them. To face the reality would further be to take responsibility for the myriad of vile acts perpetrated on this country, on the innocent, which again isn't something they signed up for.

Not everyone in the UK is like this of course, the majority certainly aren't, but the sorry specimens that regularly show up in these threads sadly fit the bill.

sounds to me like there's only one racist around here........

Davidson2k9

On xbox, every Irish person is a dirty gypsy pikey bastard, according to the English and they wonder how we get internet in our caravan.

I'd love to know what the English are told about us that they have that in their head.

Doc Ruby

Fratton Fred wrote: »

sounds to me like there's only one racist around here........

Observe the evidence of the effects of shining a light into the dark corners. It is viewed literally as an attack on their ethnic and cultural identity, exactly as I said.

The funny thing is, I really couldn't have given a crap before stumbling across AH. All this stuff takes about sixty seconds to uncover on google. That whole Northern Ireland being the most racist place on earth, I found that out after a side chat with Dudess I think it was - just for pig iron I googled the most racist country, and...

...ah geeeez...

Wibbs

IrishAm wrote: »

Aha, most revealing.

Explains your hatred of people of european descent.

*facepalm*

cloud493 wrote:

I've never been 'seriously' discriminated against for being English, but my friend told me he got the **** kicked out of him once for it/ But you wouldn't know if that was just a bunch of knackers looking for an excuse to kick the **** out of someone really.

Every culture has prejudices and stereotypes of "others" to some degree or other. For me I'd gauge the maturity of a culture when those prejudices and stereotypes when aggressive are in the majority of cases confined to the old guard or scumbags in the society. The UK and Ireland(though we had far less catching up to do) have improved immeasurably in this regard over the last 40 years. My uncle who died last year(in his 80's) lived most of his adult life in England and was well aware and directly exposed to the "no blacks, no Irish" mindset. To the degree that in his spare time joined anti racism organisations. He noted a huge attitude change in his lifetime, even though there was clearly more work to be done and racism wasn't just confined to whites.

Ms.M

IrishAm wrote: »

Not racist at all and 100% factual. Actually, 50% of the victims of racial murders in the whole of the UK have been people of wholly european descent.

Which blows the "vulnerable minorities" fable out of the water.

What? You said 90% of racial murders in London! See your own post.
And if white people are "the most accepting people on the planet" why are over half the racial murders in the UK committed on non-whites? Are you claiming this is just in-fighting on part of the coloured folk?

The "vulnerable minority" argument is not solely or even mostly about murder btw. Catholics in NI in the height of the Trouble were a vulnerable minority.

Your "we beez oppressed" comment implies that non-whites are less intelligent. Hence it is racist.

mikemac1

sarmer wrote: »

In Australia at New Year's 3 years ago, my friends (all mid twenties females) were waiting in a queue. It was a bit of a messy queue with people not standing in proper lines so it turned out we accidently cut in a front of an ozzie couple. The girl tells us rudely that we've cut in front of them and we all say sorry, it was an accident etc. Then she starts to rant - "Fcuking Irish, fcuking coming over here taking our jobs blah blah blah, I outta punch you in the face". Totaly nutjob.

You moved there to work

Her ancestors were deported there for thieving

IrishAm

Wibbs wrote: »

*facepalm*

Every culture has prejudices and stereotypes of "others" to some degree or other. For me I'd gauge the maturity of a culture when those prejudices and stereotypes when aggressive are in the majority of cases confined to the old guard or scumbags in the society. The UK and Ireland(though we had far less catching up to do) have improved immeasurably in this regard over the last 40 years. My uncle who died last year(in his 80's) lived most of his adult life in England and was well aware and directly exposed to the "no blacks, no Irish" mindset. To the degree that in his spare time joined anti racism organisations. He noted a huge attitude change in his lifetime, even though there was clearly more work to be done and racism wasn't just confined to whites.

You must have swallowed the peeceee guidebook. If your uncle was 80, you must be now 50-60. Good stuff. You will be maggot food soon.

mod: banned.

Wibbs

Davidson2k9 wrote: »

On xbox, every Irish person is a dirty gypsy pikey bastard, according to the English and they wonder how we get internet in our caravan.

I'd love to know what the English are told about us that they have that in their head.

They're told and pick up remarkably little in their education and media, though more than in the past. I've been surprised on that score how uniformed many of them are, even on their own history.

As for the "Irish as Pikeys" notion, I'd reckon look closer to home for an example of that. Romanians. For many people the word means beggars, gypos or worse. Of course failing to realise that the Romanians in that stereotype are a minority in Romania(and not exactly loved there). The Brits would think much the same, as would many Europeans. So for many Brits who watch my big fat gypsy wedding they don't make larger connections and don't equate someone like Dara O'Brian in the same group. He doesn't sound "irish" to them or something as the first stereotype stuck. I dunno what it is but you see similar examples all over the world.

Nodin

IrishAm wrote: »

My lot? Who exactly are my lot?.

Right wing xenophobes. I'm slowly narrowing it down the more of your posts I read.

IrishAm wrote: »

Irish Protestants, Irish Muslims, Irish Jews, Irish Methodists, Irish atheists, African Irish, Polish Irish, Asian Irish, Chinese Irish, North American Irish, Arab Irish, Irish Travelers, Gay Irish, I could continue ..............

That's a hell of a lot of ethnic minorities/minorities.

Its a load of bollix. The only group of people living in the western world who will never be afforded minority status, are straight people of european descent.?.

IrishAm wrote: »

But "white" people are the most accepting people on the planet. "White" people are vilified for being "white". ..

O God no....not the oppressed white man crap...please baby jesus....

And the gays scare him too......surely theres therapy available...

IrishAm wrote: »

The majority of babies born in America, are now of non european descent.
.

O NOESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IrishAm wrote: »

A Donegal man was murdered by British Pakistanis a couple of months ago for being white.
.

You've a link to the story?

IrishAm wrote: »

You will be maggot food soon
.

Do please explain this wonderful quip.

mikemac1

Lived in Yorkshire, lovely people, very similar to the Irish in some ways
Very relaxed.
Mad for football and rugby league, pure sports mad
Never a problem, made lots of friends


Lived in London
Yeah it's a bit seem a bit cold and intimadating but once you get in a group it's grand. So expensive though!


Lived in Belfast
Had my bogger culchie accent commented on every day, hey I gave it right back to them and I tried to laugh it off.
Had comments about terrorism made
But I was careful, I never ever discuss religion or politics with workmates but I still seem to have offended some people and have my work folder scribbled on with logos.
I let it go, never went to HR.
But it was needless and unneccesary and how did I manage to get people to hate my background when I never even said anything controversial and I'm easy to work with and get along with


td;dr: I got more hassle in NI then on the "mainland"

dr.bollocko

mod:
IrishAm banned. If posters continue to get personal they will most likely follow him.

Fair warning.