There are no jobs in this town, and "jobsbridge" is a contributory factor.

du Maurier

Hoffmans wrote: »

i think its more of an indicator that somone has lost their pride if they feel happy to become a 50bux slave for some big business or corporation, teva and the whitfield clinic were recently looking for jobridge slaves why would anyone go in and work the same hours alongside somone on say 700€ a week for a bullseye

I'm not trying to argue with that sentiment per se, but I'm trying to provide some kind of rational thought process for someone who might be in a position like that. They MUST start somewhere, to eventually eke out those 700 euro pw jobs. One has to always think that 'this is temporary' but it's providing me with some kind of platform (however small) to get me to where I want to be.

I mean if the intern is doing the same job as well as the person earning the green this doesn't generally go unnoticed. There is an element of luck too (an employer liking you and willing to offer you a job), as well as showing initiative, but that goes with the territory.

Also, even though a lot of companies terminate an intern's stint after their 9-12 months and hire another, apparently many others keep them on permanently. Hired interns looking for permanency must also strive hard to progress when they get the opportunity, get in with their employer and prove their worth in the hope of being kept on.

You might see it as somewhat unfair, unbalanced or an unwieldy scheme, but it does provide some openings that could lead to something fruitful.

old gregg

@ du Maurier:
I think that in an environment where employers were more than likely to operate in an ethical manner and the jobs were of a nature where the intern was going to actually gain new valuable skills and experience then your argument is sound.

Sadly in many cases the above scenario does not obtain. The employer is exploiting someone who desperately wants to better themselves. Tossing burgers and chips for slave wages is not acceptable no matter how it's dressed up.
I suppose the answer is to have some policing of each vacancy and a ban on employers using it to recruit repeatedly for the same position.

du Maurier

However there is a line to be drawn. I do find it a frightful abdication of responsibility and ethically redundant to offer this scheme to folks whereby the skills requirements are very basic ie shelf-stocking etc. Essentially the intern isn't learning anything pertaining to what their qualifications suggest. So it should be tailored more to go hand in hand with a person's qualifications (which is does provide) but not just allow any business that applies to acquire cheap labour.

du Maurier

old gregg wrote: »

@ du Maurier:
I think that in an environment where employers were more than likely to operate in an ethical manner and the jobs were of a nature where the intern was going to actually gain new valuable skills and experience then your argument is sound.

Sadly in many cases the above scenario does not obtain. The employer is exploiting someone who desperately wants to better themselves. Tossing burgers and chips for slave wages is not acceptable no matter how it's dressed up.
I suppose the answer is to have some policing of each vacancy and a ban on employers using it to recruit repeatedly for the same position.

Good point, which I was coming to as per below. I agree with this sentiment here.

du Maurier

abouttobebanned wrote: »

So...you do this JOBBRIDGE thing for 9 months and then the company lets you go. The company then takes on another JOBBRIDGE candidate. The previous one thinks that he now has a better chance of securing employment...but guess what...all the companies that he's now well equipped to work for, are not taking on any paid employees. Just JOBBRIDGE!

I don't think that would necessarily be the black and white of it, with respect. A Jobbridge candidate may not necessarily be solely a graduate or someone with little experience. They may have lost their job (with plenty of experience behind them) for a brief period of time and are looking to be perceived as being actively seeking any kind of work so it reflects well on them to an employer. It's really only a temporary measure for this kind of candidate which bumps up their CV and perceived enthusiasm, and perhaps, eventually leading to a interview for a full-time, paid job.

9 months (or more) working for little could actually be a clincher for a prospective candidate in an interview, rather than the person who declined the penuriously paid internship and waited in hope for a fully paid role.

Twoelles

Job bridge is an abomination.

The theory behind it is looks like it provides a fantastic opportunity for people to get experience in the field they want to work in but in practice its EXPLOITATION!
How can they implement something and then not regulate it in any way! It is a complete disgrace and a waste of tax money.

There are NO admin jobs because they are all job bridge and what a farce that it! admin and reception jobs take no more that a few weeks to train in, if you cant manage it after that then you might as well give up, and yet i see these all the time been offered as 'internships'.

Even the definition of intership is:
"Internship is a system of on-the-job training for white-collar and professional careers"

It makes me so mad

Sikie

Taking on graduates is a risky business lots of potential on paper but no experience. Jobbridge provides a method for those with intiative to demonstrate to potential employers that they have what it takes. At the end of the day somebody has to apply for a position and it is up to them to ensure that taking a position will further their career goals.

letsbet

Sikie wrote: »

Taking on graduates is a risky business lots of potential on paper but no experience. Jobbridge provides a method for those with intiative to demonstrate to potential employers that they have what it takes. At the end of the day somebody has to apply for a position and it is up to them to ensure that taking a position will further their career goals.

If companies are wary of taking on graduates then they can put them on probation like a lot of companies do. I don't think people have problems with genuine cases where a job would otherwise not have been created. A lot of the companies being talked about are simply exploiting the person and also exploiting us taxpayers. Some of these companies and nothing short of disgraceful but like most things in this country they won't be held accountable for it.

Sikie

At the moment to survive productivity needs to growing at 7-10% per annum to restore lost competitiveness from the period from the celtic tiger era. If sales are not growing by 10% then there is no jobs in fact there is a threat to existing job. Jobbridge does create space to allow people to gain skills which would not have existed as contrary to popular opinion the positions would never have been created due to the pressure to restore competitiveness.

Nypd

It's another tactic by an ill equipped government to massage the live register figures.
The majority of the people of Ireland are prepared to work, do you not think we have had enough piss taken out of us by our peers.
This just adds insult to injury !
Become an intern for 9 months to learn how to shake a basket of chips :mad:

gman2k

Sikie wrote: »

At the moment to survive productivity needs to growing at 7-10% per annum to restore lost competitiveness from the period from the celtic tiger era. If sales are not growing by 10% then there is no jobs in fact there is a threat to existing job. Jobbridge does create space to allow people to gain skills which would not have existed as contrary to popular opinion the positions would never have been created due to the pressure to restore competitiveness.

Sounds just like Labour spin if you ask me.
If an intern is productive, whether by typing letters, answering phones, dealing with clients, stacking shelves, frying burgers, they are doing work that needs to be done.
If they were not doing it for free, someone else would need to do it, i.e. get paid at least a minimum wage for a weeks work.
In my own job, I see my employer advertising for interns to the exact same work that I do.
Many of us are locum relief in the company I work for, so if my employer gives unpaid work to an intern, then people like me will get less hours and less pay.

Darkest Horse

Sikie wrote: »

Taking on graduates is a risky business lots of potential on paper but no experience. Jobbridge provides a method for those with intiative to demonstrate to potential employers that they have what it takes. At the end of the day somebody has to apply for a position and it is up to them to ensure that taking a position will further their career goals.

That's how it works in theory. That's not playing out in practice and it's causing negative knock on effects in the labour market in general. It's a well meaning but poorly conceived scheme and it needs to be changed.

Stark

Sikie wrote: »

At the moment to survive productivity needs to growing at 7-10% per annum to restore lost competitiveness from the period from the celtic tiger era. If sales are not growing by 10% then there is no jobs in fact there is a threat to existing job. Jobbridge does create space to allow people to gain skills which would not have existed as contrary to popular opinion the positions would never have been created due to the pressure to restore competitiveness.

Sounds like IBEC speak. Ireland's already made substantial progress in regaining competitiveness. I also doubt that the local chippy has to compete internationally.

Sully

From what I recall, the Minister said that she wasn't happy with these type of advertisements and wanted her office notified of such so it can be investigated. Its not a problem here in Waterford alone.

Partizan

Sully wrote: »

From what I recall, the Minister said that she wasn't happy with these type of advertisements and wanted her office notified of such so it can be investigated. Its not a problem here in Waterford alone.

The trouble with the Job-bridge Scheme is that it is open to exploitation by unscrupulous companies like Supermacs (due to lack of regulation) who use it to exploit workers and drive down labour costs in order to maximise profits. There is no onus on the likes of Supermacs to keep these workers but instead after 9 months will leave them go and take on another unemployed individual for €50 a week. It is slavery.

In the US, the system of internships is selective, i.e. highly skilled, well sought after by graduates and regulated which results in many instances of the graduates being appointed.

jayteecork

Partizan wrote: »

The trouble with the Job-bridge Scheme is that it is open to exploitation by unscrupulous companies like Supermacs (due to lack of regulation) who use it to exploit workers and drive down labour costs in order to maximise profits. There is no onus on the likes of Supermacs to keep these workers but instead after 9 months will leave them go and take on another unemployed individual for €50 a week. It is slavery.

In the US, the system of internships is selective, i.e. highly skilled, well sought after by graduates and regulated which results in many instances of the graduates being appointed.

Actually, they don't even have to pay the extra €50.

Avox

Even The Munster Express are taking advantage of this :eek: See Here.

I can certainly say I won't be buying their paper again if that's how they treat the people of Waterford.

daenerysstormborn3

Can't believe that Avox. I find it hard to believe they can't afford to take on a member of staff on a proper wage, even minimum wage.

RumMonkey

And this after the Munster forced 12 people to take statuatory redundancy in December because he wanted to outsource the work to Belfast and other places.

Tim the Enchanter

pixiebean22 wrote: »

Can't believe that Avox. I find it hard to believe they can't afford to take on a member of staff on a proper wage, even minimum wage.

The Munster is struggling big time. Id say its only a matter of time now. More and more people giving up on it. Not enough of a population to keep 2 regional papers in circulation.

abouttobebanned

You really can't blame these companies for doing this? The Munster Express are under a helluva lot more pressure than, say, a Supermacs. The government have created a scheme that lets them have an unpaid workforce, they'd be mad to not exploit it.

Darkest Horse

While we're on the subject, I think it's time to take the opportunity to name and shame companies like the call centre Eisteac, who have been undertaking exploitation of a similar manner. They have been taking on new hires and putting them through a "training" course which, if you became employed by them having been previously on social welfare, must be undertaken with no pay; but if you joined them directly from another paid job, you would have received pay for the course despite the fact you would have undertaken this training alongside people who were doing it for free. Now if that's not rubbing someone's nose in it, I don't know what is. I know of several cases where people have actually foregone food because (a) they weren't paid for a month's training whilst their newly hired colleagues were and (b) because the pay intervals are monthly and social welfare was withdrawn after a certain amount of time, i.e. 8 hours work per day and NO income for several weeks. Absolutely disgraceful and it's made possible by the fact that all of these companies (those exploiting jobbridge too), know the legislation inside out and are well aware of what they can and cannot get away with even if it exploits their own employees within the confines of the law. It's bleak times we live in.

Psychedelic

Re: The Munster Express

newspaper and graphic design, on line marketing and public relations. On completion the intern will have attained skills in newspaper and online marketing products, public relations, team working and advertising sales.

This isn't cold call selling, stacking shelves or flipping burgers. Sounds like a proper internship to me, and as said above they are genuinely struggling to survive, it's not like they are too stingy to employ someone.

Musicman2000

Psychedelic wrote: »

Re: The Munster Express

This isn't cold call selling, stacking shelves or flipping burgers. Sounds like a proper internship to me, and as said above they are genuinely struggling to survive, it's not like they are too stingy to employ someone.

Its still the same in my books, Instead of taking on some qualified to do the job and pay them a wage they are taking the cheap option like every other company.

Media999

Psychedelic wrote: »

Re: The Munster Express

This isn't cold call selling, stacking shelves or flipping burgers. Sounds like a proper internship to me, and as said above they are genuinely struggling to survive, it's not like they are too stingy to employ someone.

Wouldnt feel sorry for that newspaper to be honest. The owners are probably only worth millions. lets all work for fifty quid a week so the millionaires dont have to downgrade there 745i.

Darkest Horse

Media999 wrote: »

Psychedelic wrote: »

Re: The Munster Express

This isn't cold call selling, stacking shelves or flipping burgers. Sounds like a proper internship to me, and as said above they are genuinely struggling to survive, it's not like they are too stingy to employ someone.

Wouldnt feel sorry for that newspaper to be honest. The owners are probably only worth millions. lets all work for fifty quid a week so the millionaires dont have to downgrade there 745i.

A typically begrudging Waterford attitude. I've seen so many like you down the years and it's the reason why Waterford is the "forgotten city" (yes it's deliberate). Otherwise known as tall poppy syndrome, god forbid anyone get ahead of you. Ever heard the one about the crabs in the bucket?

ziedth

I think any of the regulars here know that I have no time for the Munster ( since Dermot Keys article) but I have to say I don't think they are in the wrong here. If you were interested in media or whatever it would be positive on your CV. This job and stocking in Tesco for example are world's apart.

Media999

Darkest Horse wrote: »

A typically begrudging Waterford attitude. I've seen so many like you down the years and it's the reason why Waterford is the "forgotten city" (yes it's deliberate). Otherwise known as tall poppy syndrome, god forbid anyone get ahead of you. Ever heard the one about the crabs in the bucket?

Nope. Not begrudging. Just think its a **** newspaper that refuses to modernise.

Darkest Horse

Media999 wrote: »

Nope. Not begrudging. Just think its a **** newspaper that refuses to modernise.

That's a fair comment but it's totally unrelated to what you said earlier. You don't like the paper so fcuk the (alleged) millionaires who own it and let it go to the wall, taking several other jobs with it. As long as the car doesn't get downgraded.....

Media999

Darkest Horse wrote: »

That's a fair comment but it's totally unrelated to what you said earlier. You don't like the paper so fcuk the (alleged) millionaires who own it and let it go to the wall, taking several other jobs with it. As long as the car doesn't get downgraded.....

The jobs went before the Car, The Yacht or the Holiday homes. Fact