Time to abolish communions and confirmations?

silly

I was told by the principal at my daughters school, that in the not so distant furture, the communions and confirmations will not be done through the school, but through the church. So i presume some type of "Sunday School" type thing like they do in America.

Run_to_da_hills

It should be up to the child to decide what he wants to do and that also includes baptism.

flutterflye

shopaholic01 wrote: »

Kids are eventually told/realise that santa and the easter bunny aren't real.
Catholics are supposed to believe in god for life.

The smart ones figure it out at some point on their own though.

flutterflye

xsiborg wrote: »

another religion thread? not only did jesus weep at this stage, but moses was in floods!

for people that claim to be so clever as not to believe in sky fairies and what not, its fairly telling that some of ye cant even find the religion forum for all these threads!

Is that supposed to be English you are speaking?

fishy fishy

shopaholic01 wrote: »

Kids are eventually told/realise that santa and the easter bunny aren't real.
Catholics are supposed to believe in god for life.

you do KNOW that all those miracles and parables are just stories dont' ya.

why begrudge the kids of a day out dressed up. Adults do it when they get married.

ejmaztec

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

It should be up to the child to decide what he wants to do and that also includes baptism.

The priests ignore the screaming and give em a good soaking anyway.

Yakult

Good way of getting new/future cult members, while they are young and unaware of the evil that is the Catholic church.

Pushtrak

andy1249 wrote: »

Religion is an artificial social construct , its social rites being a big part of it. Take away the religion and you still have a human need for social coming of age markers and get togethers , whether they be based on religion or not.

If only there were an annual thing to do such a thing maybe religion wouldn't be necessary... Oh, wait..

shopaholic01

fishy fishy wrote: »

you do KNOW that all those miracles and parables are just stories dont' ya.

why begrudge the kids of a day out dressed up. Adults do it when they get married.

Yes, that was my point.
Some kids have to wear their uniforms now to stop the 'big fat gypsy communion' nonsense some parents insist on.

Wattle

silly wrote: »

I was told by the principal at my daughters school, that in the not so distant furture, the communions and confirmations will not be done through the school, but through the church. So i presume some type of "Sunday School" type thing like they do in America.

Sunday School? As if Sunday's aren't boring enough when your a kid.

leeroybrown

Wattle wrote: »

Sunday School? As if Sunday's aren't boring enough when your a kid.

Far better than indoctrinating them using hours of valuable state funded teaching time. Most Church of Ireland families are already very familiar with the concept.

Morag

No, let them have thier rite and thier day out,
but not on a school day and have all the indoctrination happen out side of school hours.

Run_to_da_hills

ejmaztec wrote: »

The priests ignore the screaming and give em a good soaking anyway.

Sometimes its more than the child that gets a soaking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28J5Wo31CDo

Monsieur Folie

Parents should put that money in a college fund.

I didn't get nearly as much as some of the figures quoted here but I got a decent amount, and of course at the time I was too young to even consider putting it away for the future. Now I'm older and I wish I had!

Also, ceremonies like this are fine, I have no problem with people practising their religion, even though I might not agree with them. I do think that it should be kept separate from the schooling system though. Religion should be a private matter. If you go to a primary school here, chances are you'll be celebrating communion/confirmation even if you're non-religious or non-practising.

walrusgumble

Wattle wrote: »

I live near a church and it's absolute bedlam come communion/confirmation time with all the good Christians double parked blocking the roads for hours on end. What would Jesus do? Would Jesus double park?

Hours on end? more like 1 - 1 1/12 hours

Abi

Understandably most non-practicing catholics sent their children to catholic schools until Educate together came about. According to their website they've been in Ireland since 1978 -

Established in 1978, it now has 60 national schools nationwide, all teaching the full primary curriculum.

I think we need a LOT more of these schools, so we can give up the hypocrisy of sending children to catholic schools, when they never set foot inside a church ordinarily.

By attending a non specific school, the child will learn about different religons and can make their communion or confirmation if they wish to by making arrangements themselves.


My mother has been harping on at my sister since her daughter was born over 4 years ago to get her Christened. My sister is not religious. My mother only sets foot in a church for funerals and the like, but gives my sister a hard time over her grand daughter, and yet has claimed shes athiest in the past several times.

Is it just the Irish mothers gig to interfere constantly, regardless of them being the biggest hypocrites ever?

I'm atheist, but out of respect of people that choose to get married, funerals etc in a catholic church, I attend. I do not take the bread , but will offer the sign of peace etc, as offering peace is not a catholic specific gesture imo. I never shove my views down others necks, but it annoys me when non-practicing 'catholic's give other people "your baby will burn in hell unless its christened" spiel.

Going back to the schools, we need more non religious specific schools, so the hypocrisy can begin to fade out.

lazygal

Abi wrote: »

Is it just the Irish mothers gig to interfere constantly, regardless of them being the biggest hypocrites ever?

Yes. My mother has done the same, we didn't have a church wedding and don't plan on a baptism, my parents only ever see a church for weddings and funerals, yet have asked us several times would we not think about a baptism. Oddest reason? It's a 'bit selfish to not give the child the option by baptizing them.' I was confused too.

flutterflye

When my son was born 9 years ago, I did get alot of stick from family members about not christening him.
My granny even told me that my dead mother would be so ashamed.
But by the time my daughter was born 4 years ago - all hope was clearly given up that my kids would ever be christened!
When I decided to get married in a hotel rather than a church, there were a few comments, but by the time of the wedding, they had all gotten over it.
I cannot understand why people give into family/societal pressure with these things.
Just stand your ground and they'll either get over it or they won't - but that's their problem.

Abi

lazygal wrote: »

Oddest reason? It's a 'bit selfish to not give the child the option by baptizing them.' I was confused too.

But you wouldn't be giving the child the option by baptising them either, gas :pac:

flutterflye

lazygal wrote: »

It's a 'bit selfish to not give the child the option by baptizing them.'

I have heard that so many times!
It makes NO sense whatsoever!!!

lazygal

lazygal wrote: »

Yes. My mother has done the same, we didn't have a church wedding and don't plan on a baptism, my parents only ever see a church for weddings and funerals, yet have asked us several times would we not think about a baptism. Oddest reason? It's a 'bit selfish to not give the child the option by baptizing them.' I was confused too.

it drives me up the wall when people thinking picking ONE religion that you officially can't leave is "giving them more options"

particularly when you remember the child can bloody go and get baptised themselves when they're older

validusername1

abouttobebanned wrote: »

And tell me, why does a 12 year old need 1 thousand euro

I made almost a thousand euro for my Confirmation and a couple hundred for my communion. I am 18 now and I still have all of that money saved. I didn't need it when I was 12 and I don't need it now, but I'm saving it for a time when I will need it. I'm certainly not complaining. Of course that money will be useful some day.

I don't think Confirmations and Communions should be banned. Everyone has the right to do what they want when it comes to religion. Like somebody else said though, I do think it should all be done outside of school time. That way, the people who actually care about the religion will be the ones taking part. I am not religious in the slightest and I just had to do those things through school. Pretty pointless really. Religion should just be kept out of school entirely. Let people make up their own minds themselves.

OneArt

Back in Africa all got for our communion was a cow and we had to be happy with that.*

*I didn't really get a cow but I did have my first communion in Africa.

mikemac1

Pherekydes wrote: »

For what?

Maybe a trip to revenue.ie is in order.

For you two!

The kids need to pay up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lts2RScbndA

bb1234567

Tym wrote: »

Did anybody actually get 1000 euro?

I made a little over 1000 for both my confirmation and communion. As did both my brother and sister, if not even more...rich grandparents:p

InTheTrees

I never got confirmed. And I've never had communion.

They had the classes at school that we had to sign up for and I thought it seemed like a waste of time so I didnt.

Probably helps that I'm (was) CofI, and those people dont really put much store by it.

Ghost Buster

xsiborg wrote: »

another religion thread? not only did jesus weep at this stage, but moses was in floods!

for people that claim to be so clever as not to believe in sky fairies and what not, its fairly telling that some of ye cant even find the religion forum for all these threads!

On the first page of After Hours right this moment there are:
4 threads about politics. Have you asked why these are not in 'Politics' ?
2 about people you dislike or who annoy you. Have you asked why these are not in 'ranting and raving'?
2 about alcohol
5 about media, Google, Face Book, News papers. Have you asked why these are not in a media thread..?
The fact is that religion does not come up as often as most of its defenders claim. They just dont like it being discussed and would like it to stop.
Tough.

Steven81

Was at a confirmation last week and the person getting confirmed was writing down what everyone had given her and then putting it in order with the person who gave the most at top of list.

The youths of today!

Birroc

What annoys me is that other parents automatically assume that your children will get their 1st communion and confirmation once they reach a certain age/class. Surely after the disgrace that the Catholic Church have become, parents these days need to ask the question rather than assume it's a foregone conclusion. Esepecially since most of them are a la carte Catholics. It's like they somehow disassociate these rituals with what in my opinion is a criminal organisation.

RichieC

abouttobebanned wrote: »

And tell me, why does a 12 year old need 1 thousand euro (what a relative recently made).

All the Cherry coke!


Oh wait, the PC crowd ran that out of the country too

Wattle

walrusgumble wrote: »

Hours on end? more like 1 - 1 1/12 hours

After the church bit they go to nearby pubs and restaurants so yes hours on end.

up for anything

abouttobebanned wrote: »

And tell me, why does a 12 year old need 1 thousand euro (what a relative recently made).

What 12 year old doesn't? I'd have loved it. In fact, I'd love it now... a laptop, a decent phone and that's it gone or maybe an iPhone and a kindle with a bit left over to spend in Penny's. Don't be such a miserable begrudger.

Ghost Buster wrote: »

The fact is that religion does not come up as often as most of its defenders claim. They just dont like it being discussed and would like it to stop.
Tough.

I can only think of two posters who defend religion/biblical stuff and a few who defend other people's right to believe what they want. I'm bored of them and no matter what tack a religious thread starts out on it ends up the same, going round the same old hamster wheel.

Duggys Housemate

Ghost Buster wrote: »

On the first page of After Hours right this moment there are:
4 threads about politics. Have you asked why these are not in 'Politics' ?
2 about people you dislike or who annoy you. Have you asked why these are not in 'ranting and raving'?
2 about alcohol
5 about media, Google, Face Book, News papers. Have you asked why these are not in a media thread..?
The fact is that religion does not come up as often as most of its defenders claim. They just dont like it being discussed and would like it to stop.
Tough.

Political debates can be interesting, and have divergent views. These kind of debates are for morons. Its all about getting the thanks from the radical atheists, and the Church is criminal innit mobs.

Banning communions and confirmations isn't going to happen because people choose to do them. Thats the nature of civil organisation in democracies. I would agree in schools not promoting them, but humans have always had a need to mark coming of age ( although the confirmation is closer in age to that than communion). So most people will continue to do it, since this is the cultural background we have. There is no law in a democracy which can ban people from meeting for religious, or civil, purposes, unless the activities are illegal in themselves.

Thats all we need to say. The thread title is rubbish. The whole thread needed a page of people saying "no, don't be stupid" but as always with religious bashing threads, the quality is abysmal.

FoxT

They should abolish a few commandments - then the craic would start!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

I remember a story once, told by a teacher who had not seen or said hi to one of the girls in her class at the chruch. She apologised to the girl at school on Monday morning.

Says the girl: "Oh that's okay, Miss, we never actually went. We were late getting out of the hairdressers, so we just went straight to the hotel."

Lovely.

Pushtrak

FoxT wrote: »

They should abolish a few commandments - then the craic would start!

Get rid of that Sabbath one first. It fecks everyone up.

Ghost Buster

Duggys Housemate wrote: »

Political debates can be interesting, and have divergent views. These kind of debates are for morons. Its all about getting the thanks from the radical atheists, and the Church is criminal innit mobs.

Banning communions and confirmations isn't going to happen because people choose to do them. Thats the nature of civil organisation in democracies. I would agree in schools not promoting them, but humans have always had a need to mark coming of age ( although the confirmation is closer in age to that than communion). So most people will continue to do it, since this is the cultural background we have. There is no law in a democracy which can ban people from meeting for religious, or civil, purposes, unless the activities are illegal in themselves.

Thats all we need to say. The thread title is rubbish. The whole thread needed a page of people saying "no, don't be stupid" but as always with religious bashing threads, the quality is abysmal.

No thats not it. Yes the thread title and idea is stupid. Boards is full of stupid threads and threads which do not interest me. I engage in the stupid threads if the stupidity interests me. I ignore the boring ones. What i dont do is object to the very idea of the thread, waffle on about there being too many of such threads and whine that the threads be moved to somewhere more suitable.
Why cant you do the same?
As it is i enjoy the religiously themed threads and actively seek them out.

Duggys Housemate

Ghost Buster wrote: »

No thats not it. Yes the thread title and idea is stupid. Boards is full of stupid threads and threads which do not interest me. I engage in the stupid threads if the stupidity interests me. I ignore the boring ones. What i dont do is object to the very idea of the thread, waffle on about there being too many of such threads and whine that the threads be moved to somewhere more suitable.
Why cant you do the same?
As it is i enjoy the religiously themed threads and actively seek them out.

In general I do avoid religious threads in After hours, take a look at my post history. However, this time I popped in, the ridiculous thread title justentranced me.

Ill be unsubscribing now.

tempura

Wattle wrote: »

I live near a church and it's absolute bedlam come communion/confirmation time with all the good Christians double parked blocking the roads for hours on end. What would Jesus do? Would Jesus double park?

No, he wouldn't !

He just do a big ole miracle and make a multi story for all the good folks !

Praise the lawd !

xsiborg

Ghost Buster wrote: »

On the first page of After Hours right this moment there are:
4 threads about politics. Have you asked why these are not in 'Politics' ?
2 about people you dislike or who annoy you. Have you asked why these are not in 'ranting and raving'?
2 about alcohol
5 about media, Google, Face Book, News papers. Have you asked why these are not in a media thread..?
The fact is that religion does not come up as often as most of its defenders claim. They just dont like it being discussed and would like it to stop.
Tough.

could you point out to me once where i defended religion? i only meant that there is almost a template to these threads at this stage-

someone makes an OP about a religious topic, then the thread gets flooded within seconds with the usual same old same old replies.

and they're pretty much the same template responses over and over, as you quite rightly point out- religious defenders vs atheists, or atheists vs religious defenders, ad nauseum.

at least in those other threads you mention, the subjects covered are different and varied and the thread responses are different points of view on that topic, whereas with the religion threads, you could nearly predict the responses blindfolded at this stage.

AH is supposed to be like the "pub chat" area of boards, i meet up with my mates and it's not too bloody often we'd talk about religion. it's an overly represented topic in AH which is why i felt these kinds of threads would be better suited to the religion forum, where the OP would need to up their game if they wanted a serious discussion on the topic, from people who take that shít seriously!


as i said from the beginning, i am neither a religious defender, nor an atheist, i dont particularly subscribe to the "i think this, therefore i am labelled this" theory.

im just a poster who is tired of seeing the life being sucked out of AH with this nonsense.

Fuinseog

I was going to contribute something here but looking at the naked sectarianism , I do not think I will.
The think about the mods here is that they entertain religious hatred but not what they perceive to be racial hatred.

Ghost Buster

Fuinseog wrote: »

I was going to contribute something here but looking at the naked sectarianism , I do not think I will.
The think about the mods here is that they entertain religious hatred but not what they perceive to be racial hatred.

Well racial hatred is hatred of people. Religious hatred (of which there is little here) is hatred of an idea.
Also you need to understand sectarianism as you have used it incorrectly.

Ghost Buster

xsiborg wrote: »

could you point out to me once where i defended religion? i only meant that there is almost a template to these threads at this stage-

someone makes an OP about a religious topic, then the thread gets flooded within seconds with the usual same old same old replies.

and they're pretty much the same template responses over and over, as you quite rightly point out- religious defenders vs atheists, or atheists vs religious defenders, ad nauseum.

at least in those other threads you mention, the subjects covered are different and varied and the thread responses are different points of view on that topic, whereas with the religion threads, you could nearly predict the responses blindfolded at this stage.

AH is supposed to be like the "pub chat" area of boards, i meet up with my mates and it's not too bloody often we'd talk about religion. it's an overly represented topic in AH which is why i felt these kinds of threads would be better suited to the religion forum, where the OP would need to up their game if they wanted a serious discussion on the topic, from people who take that shít seriously!


as i said from the beginning, i am neither a religious defender, nor an atheist, i dont particularly subscribe to the "i think this, therefore i am labelled this" theory.

im just a poster who is tired of seeing the life being sucked out of AH with this nonsense.

No its not. This is the only one at the moment and it spends most of its time on page two.:rolleyes:(except for aboput 2 minutes after I hit 'enter';))

Bertser

Wastes a good two years of primary school, 6th class could easily be spent preparing kids for secondary instead of spending the whole year preparing for an event that pales into insignificance.

Monsieur Folie

Bertser wrote: »

Wastes a good two years of primary school, 6th class could easily be spent preparing kids for secondary instead of spending the whole year preparing for an event that pales into insignificance.

Agreed. Religion should be a private affair and not tied in with schools. If parents would like their children to have a communion or a confirmation it should be up to them to liaison with their church and have the church prepare them for it at weekends or whatever. That way religious people can keep on being happily religious, without infecting the schooling system. It would mean that the passive people in the school, those who are not openly religious but neither openly secular, don't feel obliged to go ahead with the thing just because the rest of the class is.

the groutch

€1,000?
Jammy f*ckers, I only got £50 for my communion (albeit in the late 80's)

btw, I think all children themselves should be given the option not to partake, regardless of what their parents say (maybe that's why the money thing came in, as a "bribe" of sorts)

Monsieur Folie

the groutch wrote: »

btw, I think all children themselves should be given the option not to partake, regardless of what their parents say (maybe that's why the money thing came in, as a "bribe" of sorts)

Yeah! I asked my teacher if my confirmation was optional when we were getting ready for it. Out of curiosity more than anything, I still intended to do it (all I was thinking was money money money, which supports what you said!). Anyway, I asked because he was all talk about how this was to 'confirm our faith' now that we were old enough to make our own decisions. But no, he said it's not optional, because once you're down as catholic you aren't given a choice, unless your parents step in.

stovelid

abouttobebanned wrote: »

(figure pulled out of my ass).

Well, that's a good start.