LOI: FAI Ford Cup (SECOND ROUND): Fixtures 25-27 May 2012

Zebra3

Des wrote: »

Oh right.

Wouldn't really bother me too much, a decent cup run is something I hope we have, but I want to finish clear of relegation in the league, and no-where near the Euro places thanks very much.

I cannot understand that mentality.

_blank_

Zebra3 wrote: »

I cannot understand that mentality.

Qualification for Europe will, even a little, push us into spending money we probably don't have.

I'd rather consolidate in the Premier for three seasons, holding our own, not struggling, maybe taking a scalp or two in the process and building.

If we make a profit then pay off some debt, keep it in the bank, or invest it in kids, but don't go giving wages to players in an effort to "do a Rovers" - we tried that before and failed fairly miserably.

We've no business having European aspirations this season, none at all. Let Rovers, Sligo, Derry, Pats and someone else have that battle. We won't go down, and that's quite enough for me. I've been saying all along, I want us finishing around 5-7th place, with that I'd be very happy.

I don't understand the opposite mentality. Europe would ruin us.

Zebra3

I don't think the BoM would go mad all of a sudden cos we got into Europe by finishing 3rd or 4th.

By what you're saying, you're glad we lost the cup final last year, cos if we'd won, we'd have been in Europe...

For what it's worth, I don't think we have a hope, but to hope it doesn't happen is madness. The UEFA money alone makes it worthwhile.

dreamers75

Zebra3 wrote: »

The UEFA money alone makes it worthwhile.

Iceland, Kazakfcukingstan, Ukraine,Russia and soon to be Azerbijan.

It really doesnt make it worthwhile.

Richard Hillman

Des wrote: »

Qualification for Europe will, even a little, push us into spending money we probably don't have.

I'd rather consolidate in the Premier for three seasons, holding our own, not struggling, maybe taking a scalp or two in the process and building.

If we make a profit then pay off some debt, keep it in the bank, or invest it in kids, but don't go giving wages to players in an effort to "do a Rovers" - we tried that before and failed fairly miserably.

We've no business having European aspirations this season, none at all. Let Rovers, Sligo, Derry, Pats and someone else have that battle. We won't go down, and that's quite enough for me. I've been saying all along, I want us finishing around 5-7th place, with that I'd be very happy.

I don't understand the opposite mentality. Europe would ruin us.

I fully understand what you are saying but season after season of mid table/nothing to play for football isnt going to bring people to matches. If we get knocked out of the cup this week, the rest of the season is a write off. I cant see many of the casual fans turning up for the rest of the season barring the Dublin derby's. Ive been to all the home games and a few aways this season and went to most of our home games in Division 1. Ive put things off some weeks and gone to games when money was tight for the week. If we have nothing to play for from June onwards, i know full well i wont be making an extra effort to get to games. I'll still be going to games but I'll be picking and choosing which ones i get to rather than going to as many as i possibly can. Im sure my situation is mirrored with a fair few people that go to games.

Im not proposing spending money to push on to get into Europe. I dont think the budget should increased, in fact it should probably be lowered considering its very unlikey we will reach the 1,400 average attendance per home match budgeted for. But i do hope we can push for a European spot because frankly the rest of the season will be absolutely dire to watch. It aint as if we are playing entertaining football either.

monkey9

Gavin shels wrote: »

Missing Bray away due to work! Meant to be a cracking day too...:(

Any idea how much it's in to Richmond on Sunday? Might pop down.

It's a tenner in. Fiver with concession.

monkey9

dreamers75 wrote: »

Fans boycotting matches apparently, 23 of them witnessed their victory the other night. Altho we were unsure of one lad with a blue jacket on it.

Normally they bring a fair few hundred down and its classed as a grade A game.

I hadn't heard of any boycott, but when i turned up at Richmond the other night and saw the Dundalk crowd and i use the word crowd lightly, i actually thought to myself that they must be boycotting. They usually bring a decent crowd for a club outside of Dublin.

I remember the first game we played Dundalk at Richmond in 2008 after their promotion and they had filled out the shed. Must have been seven or eight hundred that day. They haven't bettered that since, but they usually bring a good crowd.

I was shocked at their attendence the other night. I only noticed when i headed over to the Camac and looked across. It was something akin to a UCD/Bray crowd, but it makes sense now after hearing it actually was a boycott.

Hope Dundalk pull through all this. I hate hearing this sh!te about LOI clubs. Even though they beat us, i thought they were no great shakes whatsoever. Even when we were one nil up, i was thinking that they'll be in a relegation battle. Their victory shouldn't cloud the reality!! So it could get worse.

But as i say, i hope it all works for them!

monkey9

Richard Hillman wrote: »

I fully understand what you are saying but season after season of mid table/nothing to play for football isnt going to bring people to matches. If we get knocked out of the cup this week, the rest of the season is a write off. I cant see many of the casual fans turning up for the rest of the season barring the Dublin derby's. Ive been to all the home games and a few aways this season and went to most of our home games in Division 1. Ive put things off some weeks and gone to games when money was tight for the week. If we have nothing to play for from June onwards, i know full well i wont be making an extra effort to get to games. I'll still be going to games but I'll be picking and choosing which ones i get to rather than going to as many as i possibly can. Im sure my situation is mirrored with a fair few people that go to games.

Im not proposing spending money to push on to get into Europe. I dont think the budget should increased, in fact it should probably be lowered considering its very unlikey we will reach the 1,400 average attendance per home match budgeted for. But i do hope we can push for a European spot because frankly the rest of the season will be absolutely dire to watch. It aint as if we are playing entertaining football either.

I think what Des is getting at is not what happens this season but what happens next season if you's actually did get into Europe and to whether it's worth it or not.

I'm using Pat's as an example here from last season, we had terrible draws to the likes of Khazikstan (sic?) where it almost cost us more money to be involved in that round. We had to charter our own flight, players had to take time off from work etc and in the end, that all led to that horrible horrible day in August when the club was held to ramsom by the players looking for bonus payments. If they hadn't played that Europa match which earlier that day they released a statement saying they wouldn't do, there would be no St Pat's now.

Some of those problems occured because when most of the players signed on for Pat's last season, we weren't in Europe, so there was no bonus structure in their contracts. As far as the players were concerned, they had a couple of weeks off in the summer. But then, Fingal went bust and we were in Europe with players who had already signed for us.

Shels is a different case of course. But i completely understand where Des is coming from when he just wants to see Shels settled for a while before progressing. Europe, for LOI clubs, is not always the treasure pit it is for clubs in bigger leagues!!

_blank_

Top post Monkey, exactly on the money.

dreamers75

monkey9 wrote: »

I think what Des is getting at is not what happens this season but what happens next season if you's actually did get into Europe and to whether it's worth it or not.

I'm using Pat's as an example here from last season, we had terrible draws to the likes of Khazikstan (sic?) where it almost cost us more money to be involved in that round. We had to charter our own flight, players had to take time off from work etc and in the end, that all led to that horrible horrible day in August when the club was held to ramsom by the players looking for bonus payments. If they hadn't played that Europa match which earlier that day they released a statement saying they wouldn't do, there would be no St Pat's now.

Some of those problems occured because when most of the players signed on for Pat's last season, we weren't in Europe, so there was no bonus structure in their contracts. As far as the players were concerned, they had a couple of weeks off in the summer. But then, Fingal went bust and we were in Europe with players who had already signed for us.

Shels is a different case of course. But i completely understand where Des is coming from when he just wants to see Shels settled for a while before progressing. Europe, for LOI clubs, is not always the treasure pit it is for clubs in bigger leagues!!

Incorrect.

Des wrote: »

Top post Monkey, exactly on the money.

Incorrect. But from your logic on shels being in Europe he validated your point it is an expense.

Players sign standard PFAI contracts, we had Euro bonuses in place. it just wasnt enough for the players and they wanted more. The Patron Saints had to fork out a large amount of cash as the Club wouldnt budge.

Someone needs to write a book about that incident, will never forget the face of the head Patron Saint who technically saved St Pats from players no longer at the club...........


See Des i know everything

monkey9

But why would Euro bonuses be in place if we weren't in Europe at the time they signed??

dreamers75

monkey9 wrote: »

But why would Euro bonuses be in place if we weren't in Europe at the time they signed??

Standardised PFAI contract.

Will upload one morrow, its ****ing horrific whats in it.

No club work, no community work, no nothing.........

So any player at your club doing anything is doing it by his own choice as he is not contracted to do anything for your club other than train and play.

dfx-

Shels need a few seasons like Rovers in 07 and 08 (perhaps not as bad as Rovers in 08). It was four years from promotion to playing in Europe and five years to getting to the Europa League.

Shels need Europe like a hole in the head..

Oat23

Railway End of the Showgrounds has been knocked, 1300 seats being added and a roof later on. I hate sitting at football but it's nice to see improvements being made.

It's supposed to be up for the Ireland/Italy U-21 qualifier the Monday after next. We obviously hired the Chinese people who build hotels in a week to do it.

I know it's off topic but I thought some might be interested!

dfx-

welcome back dreamers75, you've been awful quiet since Monday:pac:

CiaranC

Oatesy23 wrote: »

Railway End of the Showgrounds has been knocked, 1300 seats being added and a roof later on. I hate sitting at football but it's nice to see improvements being made.

It's supposed to be up for the Ireland/Italy U-21 qualifier the Monday after next. We obviously hired the Chinese people who build hotels in a week to do it.

I know it's off topic but I thought some might be interested!

Thats fantastic, fair play to Sligo.

AgileMyth

CiaranC wrote: »

Thats fantastic, fair play to Sligo.

I had a number of reservations about it myself but the more I hear the better it sounds. We spent good money on the temporary seating for last years Europa game, obviously if this permanent structure doesn't cost too much more its a great piece of forward thinking from the club.

Interested to see how it looks tomorrow night, foundations are supposed to be in place before the game :eek:

monkey9

Oatesy23 wrote: »

Railway End of the Showgrounds has been knocked, 1300 seats being added and a roof later on. I hate sitting at football but it's nice to see improvements being made.

It's supposed to be up for the Ireland/Italy U-21 qualifier the Monday after next. We obviously hired the Chinese people who build hotels in a week to do it.

I know it's off topic but I thought some might be interested!

That'll look deadly!!!!

_blank_

dreamers75 wrote: »

Incorrect.



Incorrect. But from your logic on shels being in Europe he validated your point it is an expense.

Players sign standard PFAI contracts, we had Euro bonuses in place. it just wasnt enough for the players and they wanted more. The Patron Saints had to fork out a large amount of cash as the Club wouldnt budge.

Someone needs to write a book about that incident, will never forget the face of the head Patron Saint who technically saved St Pats from players no longer at the club...........


See Des i know everything

Whatever about the sordid details of the SPA players strike, the other points he made about travelling to Asia still stand.

Zebra3

monkey9 wrote: »

I think what Des is getting at is not what happens this season but what happens next season if you's actually did get into Europe and to whether it's worth it or not.

I'm using Pat's as an example here from last season, we had terrible draws to the likes of Khazikstan (sic?) where it almost cost us more money to be involved in that round. We had to charter our own flight, players had to take time off from work etc and in the end, that all led to that horrible horrible day in August when the club was held to ramsom by the players looking for bonus payments. If they hadn't played that Europa match which earlier that day they released a statement saying they wouldn't do, there would be no St Pat's now.

Some of those problems occured because when most of the players signed on for Pat's last season, we weren't in Europe, so there was no bonus structure in their contracts. As far as the players were concerned, they had a couple of weeks off in the summer. But then, Fingal went bust and we were in Europe with players who had already signed for us.

Shels is a different case of course. But i completely understand where Des is coming from when he just wants to see Shels settled for a while before progressing. Europe, for LOI clubs, is not always the treasure pit it is for clubs in bigger leagues!!

We played in Ukraine back in the 90s before there was any handouts from UEFA and we survived.

What happened with Pat's last season shouldn't put any club off wanting to play at a higher level.

dfx- wrote: »

Shels need a few seasons like Rovers in 07 and 08 (perhaps not as bad as Rovers in 08). It was four years from promotion to playing in Europe and five years to getting to the Europa League.

Shels need Europe like a hole in the head..

Why?

Some people were spouting the same crap last year about not worying about the cup and just concentrating on promotion. Getting to the cup final and putting the club back in the limelight certainly done us no harm.

_blank_

Is the Bray -v- Shels match at 7 or 745 this evening?

I'm being told 7 by someone from Bray

stovelid

AgileMyth wrote: »

I had a number of reservations about it myself but the more I hear the better it sounds. We spent good money on the temporary seating for last years Europa game, obviously if this permanent structure doesn't cost too much more its a great piece of forward thinking from the club.

Interested to see how it looks tomorrow night, foundations are supposed to be in place before the game :eek:

Is it going to be significantly more expensive than temporary seating? I guess it makes sense as long as you qualify for Europe for X number of years.

In general, it's good to see clubs putting money into their grounds for once.

stovelid

Zebra3 wrote: »

Why?

Some people were spouting the same crap last year about not worying about the cup and just concentrating on promotion. Getting to the cup final and putting the club back in the limelight certainly done us no harm.

Being in Europe puts a whole new raft of pressures on the club: travel costs, seating and no matter what you say the temptation is alway there to try and strengthen/gamble.

Zebra3

Des wrote: »

Is the Bray -v- Shels match at 7 or 745 this evening?

I'm being told 7 by someone from Bray

7.05 k.o.

stovelid wrote: »

Being in Europe puts a whole new raft of pressures on the club: travel costs, seating and no matter what you say the temptation is alway there to try and strengthen/gamble.

Travel costs-covered by UEFA money.

Seating costs-wouldn't be an issue for us.

And there would be no expectation on us progressing, so there would no hope of us gambling. Been there, done that.

stovelid

Zebra3 wrote: »

Travel costs-covered by UEFA money.

Does the Europa money cover the costs if you get really far-flung places like Pats did?

I think it's a good point about building in general: you'll be a better team after a season or two in premier and will have more revenue on board, for a start.

No ambiguity with European bonus as our player contracts have it written in.

Zebra3

Afaik, minimum payout from UEFA for playing in the EL is 90 grand.

Open to correction on that though.

dfx-

stovelid wrote: »

Does the Europa money cover the costs if you get really far-flung places like Pats did?

Big difference between the costs and income for the Rubin Kazan game than the other games last season for Rovers. Rovers have been lucky in that regard so far with Juve and Israel.

Dreaded thoughts of BATE Borisov this year..

applehunter

Beautiful day down here in Cork.

Should be a decent crowd and a good win all things going well.

Oat23

stovelid wrote: »

Is it going to be significantly more expensive than temporary seating? I guess it makes sense as long as you qualify for Europe for X number of years.

In general, it's good to see clubs putting money into their grounds for once.

I can't remember what we paid for the temp seating last year. Anyone know?

This permanent stand will cost around €90k apparently. If we are selling EL tickets at €25 each again this year then 1300 tickets for that stand will have paid for about 1/3 of the cost (depends how many kids tickets are sold for that stand though).

shanec1928

stovelid wrote: »

Is it going to be significantly more expensive than temporary seating? I guess it makes sense as long as you qualify for Europe for X number of years.

In general, it's good to see clubs putting money into their grounds for once.

believe it or not it actually costs more to rent a seat than it does to buy it.

dreamers75

dfx- wrote: »

welcome back dreamers75, you've been awful quiet since Monday:pac:

Busy with the boards server

Zebra3 wrote: »

Afaik, minimum payout from UEFA for playing in the EL is 90 grand.

Open to correction on that though.

UEFA dont cover travel, the FAI did one year think it was for you and us in 2008? But you pay your own.

Captain Havoc

I hope Dundalk survive, I was a Kilkenny City fan but I go to Tallaght now until we start training again on Fridays. I feel like a souless fan, I used to shout and roar at Buckley Park, it's not the same doing that for Rovers. Carlow were talking of getting a LOI team which would've been handy as I work there but no joy.

ShamoBuc

applehunter wrote: »

Beautiful day down here in Cork.

Should be a decent crowd and a good win all things going well.

Certainly is a beautiful evening...one down though.

ShamoBuc

3 goals in 6mins for City have them 3-1 up at ht!

Hammer Archer

1-1 at the bowl at half time against Phoenix. Strong team put out (only one change to the team that beat Sligo)and we were all over them for pretty much the entire half. Paul O Conor got the goal but it should have been two or three after half an hour. Then Richie Winter saw his chance to even things up by giving Phoenix a soft penalty.
Enjoyable game though.

stovelid

Very sad to hear of Keane's sending off at the Shopwgrounds.

Oat23

Completely unacceptable performance. Everything was fine at the start, got an early goal and they must have thought that cup matches only last 15 minutes. F**king useless for the rest of it. Bara needs to give them a kick up the arse.

Millien should have started the game too. Only he and a few others deserved to wear the jersey. Hard to believe Jake Dykes is only 17. He's a local lad that was thrown into the starting lineup for his debut at home. I might sh*t myself but he played like a veteran. Fair play to him.

dreamers75

Oatesy23 wrote: »

Completely unacceptable performance. Everything was fine at the start, got an early goal and they must have thought that cup matches only last 15 minutes. F**king useless for the rest of it. Bara needs to give them a kick up the arse.

Millien should have started the game too. Only he and a few others deserved to wear the jersey. Hard to believe Jake Dykes is only 17. He's a local lad that was thrown into the starting lineup for his debut at home. I might sh*t myself but he played like a veteran. Fair play to him.

hmmm missing Russell ?


FT Bray Wanderers 1 - 1 Shelbourne
FT Blarney United 1 - 4 Malahide
FT Bohemian FC 5 - 0 Drumkeen United
FT Cork City 6 - 1 Athlone Town
FT Derry City 4 - 0 Finn Harps
FT Drogheda United 6 - 1 Mayfield United
FT Dundalk 1 - 0 St Patrick\\\'s CY
FT SD Galway 0 - 2 Mervue United
FT Sligo Rovers 1 - 3 Monaghan United
FT UC Dublin 3 - 1 Phoenix FC
FT Shamrock Rovers 1 - 0 Limerick

Sligo the only real shock, shocked Dundalk beat CYM they quite decent.

Witchie

Still in shock that we won.

AgileMyth

dreamers75 wrote: »

hmmm missing Russell ?

We've plenty of players to play Russell's role. Its Richie we're missing. And Joey too.

First half hour was great, thought we were going to hammer them. Then we gave away a stupid goal and never really got going again. Just wasn't our night.

No idea what Keane was sent off for. Pascal had the ball and there was no one near Keane at the time.

dreamers75

AgileMyth wrote: »

We've plenty of players to play Russell's role. Its Richie we're missing. And Joey too.

Swear to jebus Russell is one of the best players i have ever seen play for Pats, he is unreal. And we have a few good ones over the years.....

CSF

Watching back our match on RTE, Paddy Kavanagh is so good.

AgileMyth

dreamers75 wrote: »

Swear to jebus Russell is one of the best players i have ever seen play for Pats, he is unreal. And we have a few good ones over the years.....

Very good player and I'd love him to have signed again. Not overly missed though with the replacements we signed.

dreamers75

AgileMyth wrote: »

Very good player and I'd love him to have signed again. Not overly missed though with the replacements we signed.

In fairness you didnt play him a lot and have a decent 11, beyond that tho your struggling. As i said we have a decent 13, you have a decent 11, Rovers havea decent 16.

In october that will count.

Honestly tho shocked at how good Russell is. Dont think you lot have a better midfielder than him and if you do he had an offday when we played you.

AgileMyth

dreamers75 wrote: »

In fairness you didnt play him a lot and have a decent 11, beyond that tho your struggling. As i said we have a decent 13, you have a decent 11, Rovers havea decent 16.

In october that will count.

Honestly tho shocked at how good Russell is. Dont think you lot have a better midfielder than him and if you do he had an offday when we played you.

Decent 11? Dillon, Raf and Pascal all on the bench tonight when we had three starters missing.

You played with three in midfield. We played with two. Tough for one of our midfielders to stand out.

Russell plays best in the front of a three man midfield. Not a formation we play this season but Dillon, Joey, Lynch and Quigley can all play that role as well or better than Russell.

edolan

dreamers75 wrote: »

In fairness you didnt play him a lot and have a decent 11, beyond that tho your struggling. As i said we have a decent 13, you have a decent 11, Rovers havea decent 16.

In october that will count.

Honestly tho shocked at how good Russell is. Dont think you lot have a better midfielder than him and if you do he had an offday when we played you.

Joseph most certainly is better than Russell, Russell was behind Joey, Boco and Richie in terms of being our best midfielder during his time with us. He was a regular in his first season when he was very good. He was poor for the first series of games last year so he was dropped, hence why he didn't play much last year. Had a decent end to the season but wasn't the same force as he was in his first season. A bit injury prone too. Everyone had a off day against ye, except for Rogers.

stovelid

AgileMyth wrote: »

No idea what Keane was sent off for..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqP3wT5lpa4

dreamers75

AgileMyth wrote: »

Decent 11? Dillon, Raf and Pascal all on the bench tonight when we had three starters missing.

You played with three in midfield. We played with two. Tough for one of our midfielders to stand out.

Russell plays best in the front of a three man midfield. Not a formation we play this season but Dillon, Joey, Lynch and Quigley can all play that role as well or better than Russell.

yeah they not getting a game for a reason, league will be decided in July/August when we all make our attempts at Europe.

I have us at 3rd you 2nd and rovers 1st.....we signing Flood and Madden but losing Forrester. no clue who you 2 are in for....


Honestly think Russell is better than Fahey. And you have noone in your team close to him but the day we hopped off you ...all of those better than Russell had a bad day?

AgileMyth

dreamers75 wrote: »

y
Honestly think Russell is better than Fahey.

Not gonna bother with you. You're either deluded or an idiot.

edolan

AgileMyth wrote: »

Decent 11? Dillon, Raf and Pascal all on the bench tonight when we had three starters missing.

You played with three in midfield. We played with two. Tough for one of our midfielders to stand out.

Russell plays best in the front of a three man midfield. Not a formation we play this season but Dillon, Joey, Lynch and Quigley can all play that role as well or better than Russell.

Raf is most certainly finished, don't know about Pascal yet, Russell is better than Dillon, but I do like Dillon and he is a very good player to have in a squad or to come off the bench.