Eircom monitored alarm - installation charge for GSM

muttley-dps

A few months back we were doorstepped on an evening by an Eircom rep selling monitored alarms at a reduced price. Given the other half is very security aware I asked her in.

She proceeded to give us a decent enough deal (from comparing with other people with same or similar). We asked did we need a phone line as if that was the case we're not interested as think line rental charges are shocking and mobiles are more than adequate. She told us No, no need for a landline and proceeded to take details for the upfront charge which was paid to include installation and materials. A direct debit was setup so once alarm was installed we could pay for the monitoring portion.

Fast forward a couple of months and we're in the new house and arrange for Eircom sub-contractor to come around to install the system. He tells us as there's no phone line he'll have to use GSM and there's a €150 charge before he'll do anything.

The wife rings me in work to tell me this and I feel like I'm being robbed I ask her has she the invoice but she cannot find it (we've just moved and boxes everywhere). The contractor leaves telling us until it's sorted he won't be installing the system.

Anyone any experience of such dealings? I'd have my money back rather than pay this as it was not obvious in the sales patter a working phone line was needed to install the alarm.

Thanks in advance.

eircom: Ant

muttley-dps wrote: »

A few months back we were doorstepped on an evening by an Eircom rep selling monitored alarms at a reduced price. Given the other half is very security aware I asked her in.

She proceeded to give us a decent enough deal (from comparing with other people with same or similar). We asked did we need a phone line as if that was the case we're not interested as think line rental charges are shocking and mobiles are more than adequate. She told us No, no need for a landline and proceeded to take details for the upfront charge which was paid to include installation and materials. A direct debit was setup so once alarm was installed we could pay for the monitoring portion.

Fast forward a couple of months and we're in the new house and arrange for Eircom sub-contractor to come around to install the system. He tells us as there's no phone line he'll have to use GSM and there's a €150 charge before he'll do anything.

The wife rings me in work to tell me this and I feel like I'm being robbed I ask her has she the invoice but she cannot find it (we've just moved and boxes everywhere). The contractor leaves telling us until it's sorted he won't be installing the system.

Anyone any experience of such dealings? I'd have my money back rather than pay this as it was not obvious in the sales patter a working phone line was needed to install the alarm.

Thanks in advance.

Hi muttley-dps,

Thank you for your post. I would advise that you give eircom PhoneWatch a call for assistance with your query :

eircom Phone Watch (for TI) 1850 500 900 option 1(local)

or 1850 753 753 Mon - Fri (8.00 - 18.00)

They will be able to advise further on with the work status of your monitored alarm installation.

If I can help further let me know.

Best wishes,
Ant

altor

muttley-dps wrote: »

A few months back we were doorstepped on an evening by an Eircom rep selling monitored alarms at a reduced price. Given the other half is very security aware I asked her in.

She proceeded to give us a decent enough deal (from comparing with other people with same or similar). We asked did we need a phone line as if that was the case we're not interested as think line rental charges are shocking and mobiles are more than adequate. She told us No, no need for a landline and proceeded to take details for the upfront charge which was paid to include installation and materials. A direct debit was setup so once alarm was installed we could pay for the monitoring portion.

Fast forward a couple of months and we're in the new house and arrange for Eircom sub-contractor to come around to install the system. He tells us as there's no phone line he'll have to use GSM and there's a €150 charge before he'll do anything.

The wife rings me in work to tell me this and I feel like I'm being robbed I ask her has she the invoice but she cannot find it (we've just moved and boxes everywhere). The contractor leaves telling us until it's sorted he won't be installing the system.

Anyone any experience of such dealings? I'd have my money back rather than pay this as it was not obvious in the sales patter a working phone line was needed to install the alarm.

Thanks in advance.

Door to door sales people are just there to sell the system, most of them don't know the ins and outs with regards the equipment that will be installed. In this case the sales person did not know that to have a monitored alarm you need some sort of communication line to the monitoring station. That is the way it works. Did the contractor or P.W tell you that the GSM unit used can be blocked with a GSM jammer. Here is a link to an article in the herald.

KoolKid

Very poor advice given there.
GSM is not considered ,by most in the industry ,as a secure form of monitoring. Despite what Eircom reps tell you an alarm can be monitored via another providers lines. The likes of UPC etc can offer phone lines for as little as €5 a month. A much better solution than a GSM.

dublin daz

KoolKid wrote: »

Very poor advice given there.
GSM is not considered ,by most in the industry ,as a secure form of monitoring. Despite what Eircom reps tell you an alarm can be monitored via another providers lines. The likes of UPC etc can offer phone lines for as little as €5 a month. A much better solution than a GSM.

Does UPC work? I was told that VoIP doesn't work for monitored alarms. We have an eircom line dedicated to PhoneWatch and the alarm makes about 2 calls a month, more if there has been activations etc.

I suppose they could jam the line as easy by cutting it, so I suppose GSM / Landlines are all similar, unless the cables are buried underground. I don't think any lines are, not here in my area anyway.

KoolKid

A phone line is more secure in the sense that it requires physical tampering.
You have to get to the box our top the cables. These can be protected and alarmed of need be. You can not protect a standard GSM dialler from jamming.
UPC works perfectly.
Now why would Eircom not tell you this when you are paying them for a dedicated line. :rolleyes:

altor

dublin daz wrote: »

We have an eircom line dedicated to PhoneWatch and the alarm makes about 2 calls a month, more if there has been activations etc.

So if your phone line was cut P.W will only know about it when they don't receive the test call and that is twice a month :eek:

dublin daz

altor wrote: »

So if your phone line was cut P.W will only know about it when they don't receive the test call and that is twice a month :eek:

No - thats a good one though! what did happen before the line was out of service for some reason, I think cables were damaged and the alarm does activate, in the house - but unfortunately not relaying this to PW control.

It seems the alarm its self monitors the line for a dial tone and if its not picked up then sounds the alarm in the house. 'Phone line failure' the system announces.

In theory they wouldn't know until a line was reconnected because the alarm has no other way of sending a signal back to PW control.

I think the way the alarm manages the line is clever! - if your on a call on the phone the alarm disconnects that, takes over the line and dials into PW. - I thought this was clever!!

dublin daz

KoolKid wrote: »

A phone line is more secure in the sense that it requires physical tampering.
You have to get to the box our top the cables. These can be protected and alarmed of need be. You can not protect a standard GSM dialler from jamming.
UPC works perfectly.
Now why would Eircom not tell you this when you are paying them for a dedicated line. :rolleyes:

I wonder.... lol 25 odd a month I think it is!

I will mention it again because we have UPC for internet and TV so adding the phone wouldn't be hard, they're usually selling phone offers with calls included too.

Thanks for that, I was convinced it wouldn't work over non standard lines .

altor

dublin daz wrote: »

No - thats a good one though! what did happen before the line was out of service for some reason, I think cables were damaged and the alarm does activate, in the house - but unfortunately not relaying this to PW control.

It seems the alarm its self monitors the line for a dial tone and if its not picked up then sounds the alarm in the house. 'Phone line failure' the system announces.

In theory they wouldn't know until a line was reconnected because the alarm has no other way of sending a signal back to PW control.

I think the way the alarm manages the line is clever! - if your on a call on the phone the alarm disconnects that, takes over the line and dials into PW. - I thought this was clever!!

Concord system?
Line seizure. The line is given priority over all other phones in the house. This is in case an intruder was to pick up a phone and the alarm did not dial out. The line fault works by the control panel monitoring the voltage of the line to the panel. If you do get UPC for the phone do not tell P.W, just connect it to the alarm and send in an alarm activation. They will tell you it does not work.

KoolKid

dublin daz wrote: »

I wonder.... lol 25 odd a month I think it is!

I will mention it again because we have UPC for internet and TV so adding the phone wouldn't be hard, they're usually selling phone offers with calls included too.

Thanks for that, I was convinced it wouldn't work over non standard lines .

The phone with UPC is around an extra €5 a month.
Be prepared for the lies though.
Also ask them why they don't do 24 hour test calls like most of us do.

PeteK*

altor wrote: »

Did the contractor or P.W tell you that the GSM unit used can be blocked with a GSM jammer. Here is a link to an article in the herald.

I never knew that.

muttley-dps wrote: »

Fast forward a couple of months and we're in the new house and arrange for Eircom sub-contractor to come around to install the system. He tells us as there's no phone line he'll have to use GSM and there's a €150 charge before he'll do anything.

We were offered this GSM thing for free, and took it!

dublin daz wrote: »

No - thats a good one though! what did happen before the line was out of service for some reason, I think cables were damaged and the alarm does activate, in the house - but unfortunately not relaying this to PW control.

So if someone blocks the GSM or cuts the wires or whatever, the alarm isn't monitored?
Communication works one way only, from the alarm to the monitoring centre?

I would have thought that it was being tested both ways - all the time!

We have two eircom PhoneWatch alarms.
One is wireless and the other us wired.
I got the wireless not realising how bulky it is.

KoolKid

PeteK* wrote: »

We were offered this GSM thing for free, and took it!

I wouldn't even take it for nothing. The risk is the same regardless of the cost.

PeteK* wrote: »

So if someone blocks the GSM or cuts the wires or whatever, the alarm isn't monitored?
Communication works one way only, from the alarm to the monitoring centre?

I would have thought that it was being tested both ways - all the time!

If a phone line is cut any PSTN monitoring is lost. However this requires physical tampering. With GSM jammers the risk is higher as no physical tampering is required.
There is some 2 way communication to the extent that the alarm gets a kiss off when it sends a signal to know its been received & understood.
But no the line is not constantly monitored. Most companies set up a 24 hour test call that checks the line once a day, but for some strange reason I have never seen 24 hour tests set up on Eircom systems.

altor

You are not the only person in that position PeteK*.
In all fairness they should be telling there customers if there is a venerability or possible threat from using a GSM, especially when there is no way to know if it has being used although your alarm will have activated from the break-in. Another thing to note is most P.W systems dont have an outside bell so only the internal bell is ringing. If P.W do not make there customers aware of the situation then how are people to know. With a GSM installed the GSM is set up to ring the monitoring station once a week by P.W. As you can see in dublin daz post above he is connected to the phone line, that is checked twice a month. Most companys set up there systems for a 24 hour test call to the monitoring station.
The phone line cutting or jamming of the GSM means the monitoring station have no connection to your alarm system if it does activate. There is a dualcom available that is polled to the monitoring station. It is polled every 3 minutes. If the poll is not received 5 times in 15 minutes the monitoring station will ring the keyholder.