Getting money back from a Ponzi scheme

drum!

A relative of mine recently tried to get me to invest in this Banners Brokers nonsense.Before i had a chance to research it and give an opinion, they had already invested in it.I am convinced it's a Ponzi, it bears all the hallmarks of one and i have yet to see actual evidence of a return by anyone who has "invested" in it.I have told my relative of my thoughts and i unfortunately have freaked them out a bit.Is there anyway i can get them a refund?Is what these people are doing legal?

smeharg

Deja vu.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056554740

DubTony

Look at the terms and conditions of the agreement. Any refund details should be in there. Do it quickly as this type of refund usually has a time limit on it.

cheyni

Is this a legit set up? My mum and her family (brothers and sisters) are all involved in this and im worried sick about her. She doesnt have money to lose on something that seems to good to be true (which, in my experience, it prob is !!). I've tried explaining this to her but she is totally brainwashed into believing its going to make her a millionaire.. I cant see how it works personally. Have found another site that says its a scam (can i post links to other sites on here?), sent her the link and she still refuses to see it as anything other than the best thing since sliced bread !!

Jim101

Hi,

I understand where some of you are coming from. Family and friends have invested money and you are concerned that they might lose it. I was never involved in the now infamous ponzi schemes of a couple of years back but by all accounts some people made a lot of money but unfortunately a lot of people lost a lot of money.

I am by no means claiming to be an expert on Banners Brokers but I'd like to think I have a bit of an idea. OP, there is an opportunity to get the money back if it has only recently been invested. I think there is a 30 day money back guarantee but please do not quote me on that. Otherwise, they have to wait for their investment to break even and once it does they can request to take out their original investment. I joined on 10th April and it broke even at the beginning of June so you shouldn't have to wait that long.

I do know members taking money out. Some people take 10% of their original investment out on a monthly basis, others take it out each quarter. I would urge people to read an independent review of Banners Broker here.

Just to give you my story. Last November my Dad joined BB. Over Christmas and the new year he kept saying that I should look at joining, but I was skeptical to say the least. I went to one or two meetings but was still apprehensive, simply because I didn't understand how it works.

I became more confident over the next few months for a number of reasons:

1. I saw my Dad's account grow pretty quickly. He's now in nearly 7 months and doing well out of it.
2. My mother joined on Feb 15th and her a/c is now growing
3. They are registered with the Revenue for VAT
4. They have an office at the Regis building in Mahon, Cork. I have been there on two occasions and they have 5 - 7 staff members.
5. They have affiliated with Mastercard and will soon be launching the BB mastercard. Basically, this will enable people to go to the hole in the wall and take out money.
6. Everybody I have spoken to that has joined seems to be doing well out of it. Nearly every third person I speak to at the meetings are taking money out on a regular basis. Others are leaving it for 8 - 12 months before withdrawing.

So I decided in April to join BB. I put in a smallish amount €1,000 + VAT, enough that I could afford to lose if something did go wrong. Basically, what they do, in laymans language is:
(1) BB have a connection to approximately 200,000 publishing websites worldwide. These are high traffic sites that have 1,000 or more hits per day.
(2) An advertiser looking to advertise their business will pay BB $1,000 for example.
(3) BB uses your investment to rent the advertising space on one of these website. So for example, they will pay $800 to one of these website owners. So basically the have made $200 on one single advertising.
(4) Profits are then filtered back into my account. BB take commission and that is how they make their money.

So in my opinion it is not a Ponzi scheme. BB have a product and that is banner advertising. Ponzi schemes have no product. Basically it's up to people to invest and if they don't then a ponzi scheme collapses. With BB you absolutely do not have to recommend anyone to join and if you don't it will grow away fine because your investment is being used to rent advertising space that advertisers pay for.

BB don't tell you what websites they use for advertising but that seems fair enough as neither does Google if a business wants to advertise with them via Adsense.

My investment is growing on average 18% week on week. I expect to receive a Mastercard in the next 10 days or so and will then be able to go to the ATM and take out money whenever I want. I am only going to take out a small amount. I am going to leave my account grow without touching it for the best part of 12 months. Then I will take out my original investment. My Dad is going to wait until September/October this year and then he will start taking out.

Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think that MasterCard would affiliate with Banners Broker if they thought that it was a glorified ponzi scheme. I'm sure they did their due diligence before they did form a partnership. Why would Mastercard risk destroying their reputation by linking up with a Ponzi scheme?

I have no problem talking to anyone or meeting with them in person to go through this. Please send me a PM if you do want to have a chat. I can show you my Dad's account and my own account and show you how they are progressing. I don't have my mum's login details so i can't show you hers.

As I said I don't want to open up a big debate on this but I just felt I would give an honest account of my story to date. If people still feel that this is a ponzi scheme then that's fine. But that's my story.

jhegarty

lol , you think that site will fool anyone ?

Cianos

Amazing how these new accounts always pop up to defend dodgy sounding ventures that have been accused of being a scam :rolleyes:

(2) An advertiser looking to advertise their business will pay BB $1,000 for example.
(3) BB uses your investment to rent the advertising space on one of these website.

If BB have already been paid $1,000 by an advertiser, why do they then need my investment to rent the advertising space on the website??

I'd advise anyone to stay away from this.

Jim101

Cianos wrote: »

Amazing how these new accounts always pop up to defend dodgy sounding ventures that have been accused of being a scam :rolleyes:



If BB have already been paid $1,000 by an advertiser, why do they then need my investment to rent the advertising space on the website??

I'd advise anyone to stay away from this.

The reason they look for members to join is that they are in the process of building a social network to be launched this Summer. The more people that BannersBroker has the more advertisers that will advertise with them either via the social network or via the publishing sites.

Once BB gets to a certain number of members then they will be able to rent the advertising space cheaper than what they are doing at he moment.

I know that you are doubting it but I would suggest that you, at the very least go to a meeting or speak to someone who has purchased advertising with them, before making judgement. Do you know anyone that has had a bad experience with BB? Any question that you have will be answered at he meeting or just pick up the phone and ring the office.

Sorry I don't mean to sound like I'm criticising you but I don't like to hear people saying stay away from it when they have never even attended a meeting and asked the questions before making judgement.

homeOwner

Just to give you my story. Last November my Dad joined BB.

[*]They have an office at the Regis building in Mahon, Cork. I have been there on two occasions and they have 5 - 7 staff members.

I checked the CRO and the company registered at Mahon Park is company number 506852 "MACONNE ONLINE MARKETING LIMITED" . They didn't register till early December 2011.

Do you know was there an invoice or receipt sent to your Dad with VAT/Company reg details on it at the time he signed up in November? Anyone know why they only officially set up as a LTD company in December if accepting payments/members prior to that?

They were due to file AR on June 2nd but CRO details nothing received yet.

Also found this Business name registered on May 24th 2012 called "BANNERS BROKER", company number 467848. Is this the same company?

Just trying to find out more about them.

smeharg

Jim101 wrote: »

...
My investment is growing on average 18% week on week.

...

What utter nonsense and fantasy. At 18% a week growth compounded on an initial investment of €1,000 you'd be a millionaire after a few months!!

What gets me is that anyone I've heard defending this have all said they're leaving their money in for a while before they start withdrawing. It's NEVER "I'm withdrawing €xx cash every week".

There's no return until you have the cash in your bank account.

Jim101 wrote: »

...
The reason they look for members to join is that they are in the process of building a social network to be launched this Summer. The more people that BannersBroker has the more advertisers that will advertise with them either via the social network or via the publishing sites.
...

So a member "invests", BB "rents" advertising space, charges a 3rd party to advertise on that space, the member also joins this social network, the advertisers advertise on the social network which is made up of BB members. Wow.

jhegarty

smeharg wrote: »

What utter nonsense and fantasy. At 18% a week growth compounded on an initial investment of €1,000 you'd be a millionaire after a few months!!

Or wait 10 years and have € 422 billion.

Sounds like a sound investment :rolleyes:

amdublin

OMG! Someone needs to tell Michael Noonan about this.

Jaysis lads we'll be out of this recession soon woo hoo!

applehunter

Jim101 wrote: »

So in my opinion it is not a Ponzi scheme. BB have a product and that is banner advertising. Ponzi schemes have no product. Basically it's up to people to invest and if they don't then a ponzi scheme collapses.

Can you show us some of these banners or any reputable source. A blog on the internet is not what I'm talking about.

Jim101 wrote: »

With BB you absolutely do not have to recommend anyone to join.

Then why are people involved going around trying to get their friends and acquaintances signed up to this thing?

Jim101 wrote: »

I don't think that MasterCard would affiliate with Banners Broker if they thought that it was a glorified ponzi scheme.

I agree with you. Have you received your card? Can you give any 3rd party evidence about its launch?

Jim101

homeOwner wrote: »

I checked the CRO and the company registered at Mahon Park is company number 506852 "MACONNE ONLINE MARKETING LIMITED" . They didn't register till early December 2011.

Do you know was there an invoice or receipt sent to your Dad with VAT/Company reg details on it at the time he signed up in November? Anyone know why they only officially set up as a LTD company in December if accepting payments/members prior to that?

They were due to file AR on June 2nd but CRO details nothing received yet.

Also found this Business name registered on May 24th 2012 called "BANNERS BROKER", company number 467848. Is this the same company?

Just trying to find out more about them.

It's not the first company you mentioned. I seems like the 2nd company but I have asked for clarification so I will refer back once I know more.

Yes I received a VAT receipt with their VAT number on it when I joined in April. I have also put it through as a company expense because I will shortly be advertising my company through it.

Jim101

smeharg wrote: »

What gets me is that anyone I've heard defending this have all said they're leaving their money in for a while before they start withdrawing. It's NEVER "I'm withdrawing €xx cash every week".

There's no return until you have the cash in your bank account.

I absolutely agree with you there. Until you have the money in your account and your initial risk has been taken out then of course it's easy to talk hypothetically.

But there are plenty of people taking money out on a regular basis. If you go to a meeting you will talk to people and they will tell you they are taking money out. But a head of cabbage isn't going to grow if you take it out of the ground a week after planting it. This takes time and maybe it's not for you if you are the impatient kind.

As I said I put in 1k. It's not the end of the world if it goes pear shaped but if I can get my initial investment around the end of the year/early next year then I'll be happy.

Yes I would like to know more about my investment and where exactly my money goes on rented space. But I have confidence in that I do see people taking money out on a regular basis and also that companies that have joined are advertising their businesses through it and I have seen some analytics accounts that shows a significant rise in traffic to their websites. (Sorry for going off topic a bit)

Jim101

applehunter wrote: »

Can you show us some of these banners or any reputable source. A blog on the internet is not what I'm talking about.

Then why are people involved going around trying to get their friends and acquaintances signed up to this thing?

I agree with you. Have you received your card? Can you give any 3rd party evidence about its launch?

To respond to your questions. By the way I'm responding to the best of my knowledge. I'm not an expert by any matter of means:

(1) They don't tell you directly what websites they are linked with but according to BB, they are linked with over 200,000 publishing websites worldwide. I'm going to advertise my own business via BB in the next few weeks and will set up analytics to see exactly where the additional hits are coming from. I will revert back when I have more details.

(2) If I get someone to join under me then I receive commission in the form of advertising credits. Those credits are then used to rent space online, which subsequently turns into revenue from banner clicks.

It is a one tiered system, meaning that if I refer Person A and he refers Person B then I do not benefit from Person B joining. A ponzi scheme is a multi-tiered system.

(3) I have been told via live chat on the website and also in the meetings that the cards will be posted out at the end of June. I have had to submit a copy of my proof of address and a notarised passport in order to apply for the mastercard. When I get the card I will take out some money to see if it actually does what they say it does.

Not sure is there any details of the card launch, without logging into the backend system. They do have some info in their FAQs. http://bannersbroker.com/main/faq

applehunter

Jim101 wrote: »

To respond to your questions. By the way I'm responding to the best of my knowledge. I'm not an expert by any matter of means:

(1) They don't tell you directly what websites they are linked with but according to BB, they are linked with over 200,000 publishing websites worldwide. I'm going to advertise my own business via BB in the next few weeks and will set up analytics to see exactly where the additional hits are coming from. I will revert back when I have more details.

This is the actual function of Banners Broker and you can't give me 1 website that uses Banners Broker???

Jim101 wrote: »

(2) If I get someone to join under me then I receive commission in the form of advertising credits. Those credits are then used to rent space online, which subsequently turns into revenue from banner clicks.

It is a one tiered system, meaning that if I refer Person A and he refers Person B then I do not benefit from Person B joining. A ponzi scheme is a multi-tiered system.

This is a tiered system. However you want to describe it.

Members are incentivized to bring in new members.

Jim101 wrote: »

(3) I have been told via live chat on the website and also in the meetings that the cards will be posted out at the end of June. I have had to submit a copy of my proof of address and a notarised passport in order to apply for the mastercard. When I get the card I will take out some money to see if it actually does what they say it does.

Not sure is there any details of the card launch, without logging into the backend system. They do have some info in their FAQs. http://bannersbroker.com/main/faq

So you can't give any 3rd party evidence then?? Why not? Why is everything about this company so secretive?

Delancey

Yo Jim101 , how's the weather in Lagos ?

Cianos

Jim101 wrote: »

As I said I put in 1k. It's not the end of the world if it goes pear shaped but if I can get my initial investment around the end of the year/early next year then I'll be happy.

I've got some good news. Since your initial deposit was growing 18% week by week, you would have doubled your 1k in the first month. No need to wait until the end of the year.

homeOwner

Jim101 wrote: »

It's not the first company you mentioned. I seems like the 2nd company but I have asked for clarification so I will refer back once I know more.

Yes I received a VAT receipt with their VAT number on it when I joined in April. I have also put it through as a company expense because I will shortly be advertising my company through it.

The 2nd one I mentioned is not a company, its a business name. There is a huge difference between those two things. They didn't register the business name till May of this year. What entity was the company trading under when your dad signed up? Its important to check these things out before you hand over money.

Also the website www.bannersbroker.ie is that their official website? It gives phone numbers in the UK not Cork where they are supposed to have their offices - is that the same company also?

Its just too confusing.

I am surprised people are handing over money without doing basic checks.

Has anyone posting here actually taken money/profit out of their account?

Jim101

homeOwner wrote: »

The 2nd one I mentioned is not a company, its a business name. There is a huge difference between those two things. They didn't register the business name till May of this year. What entity was the company trading under when your dad signed up? Its important to check these things out before you hand over money.

Also the website www.bannersbroker.ie is that their official website? It gives phone numbers in the UK not Cork where they are supposed to have their offices - is that the same company also?

Its just too confusing.

I am surprised people are handing over money without doing basic checks.

Has anyone posting here actually taken money/profit out of their account?

Apologies, I misread your message. Their website is http://bannersbroker.com. If you go to the Contact Us section at the bottom you will see their contact details for the Cork office.

After doing a search, you are correct, the company is trading as "MACONNE ONLINE MARKETING LIMITED". Their company number is at the bottom of the emails they send out, as well as their VAT number.

http://www.cro.ie/search/CompanyDetails.aspx?id=506852&type=C

It appears I'm the only person here posting that is actually in BB. But I can assure you there are people taking money out on a regular basis. Banners Broker have a 4 hour training day in well known Dublin hotel tomorrow morning between 9am and 1pm. PM me for details as I'm not sure if I should be posting them here.

I went to one in Limerick recently and basically it's a training on BB from start to finish. They tell you how the system works, how the money is generated and how the back office operates. Any questions that you have will be answered and I can assure you of that.

Jim101

Cianos wrote: »

I've got some good news. Since your initial deposit was growing 18% week by week, you would have doubled your 1k in the first month. No need to wait until the end of the year.

Yes you're right. I could take my money out now if I wanted and yes I would have made a profit. But I am going to wait. If I take it out now then I cannot rejoin. So as I said I'm going to wait 8 months or so and then start withdrawing 10% or so a month, simply because it won't affect the growth of my account if I do it that way.

Jim101

@applehunter...

Yes banner advertising is the main function of BB. However, they work on a blind advertising system at the moment. More details on how a blind advertising network can be read here... http://www.bizcommunity.com/Article/196/78/56747.html. They are in the process of changing this however to make it more transparent. Therefore, members in future will be able to see what exact websites the banners are used on. I don't know when this is being implemented but it is in the process.

Yes it is a tiered system.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by 3rd party evidence? Are you looking for an independent website that is announcing the launch of the Mastercard? If I post up a pic of the card when I receive it in the post, will that be evidence enough? Maybe I'll video myself taking money out of the ATM using the card.

Cianos

Jim101 wrote: »

Yes you're right. I could take my money out now if I wanted and yes I would have made a profit. But I am going to wait. If I take it out now then I cannot rejoin. So as I said I'm going to wait 8 months or so and then start withdrawing 10% or so a month, simply because it won't affect the growth of my account if I do it that way.

That makes sense, I suppose you would want your 1k to deposit to turn in to €1,000,000 in the space of a year before you withdraw it, with its 18% week on week growth. No point withdrawing it all too early and missing out on the once in a life time opportunity.

sheesh

here is the domain name details of cainside.com

http://whois.domaintools.com/cainside.com

My opinion of a site like this is that I would not trust it

registered in panama and 2 articles is not a site

Jim101

Cianos wrote: »

That makes sense, I suppose you would want your 1k to deposit to turn in to €1,000,000 in the space of a year before you withdraw it, with its 18% week on week growth. No point withdrawing it all too early and missing out on the once in a life time opportunity.

Well Cianos, you seem doubtful to say the least, but you're obviously taking an interest since you are posting here. Why don't you go to that meeting tomorrow and you can ask all the questions in the world...you might regret it if you don't.

Cianos

Jim101 wrote: »

Well Cianos, you seem doubtful to say the least, but you're obviously taking an interest since you are posting here. Why don't you go to that meeting tomorrow and you can ask all the questions in the world...you might regret it if you don't.

Yeah I take an interest in organisations that seek to take advantage of vulnerable people by scamming them out of their money.

LLU

Jim101 can I ask are you connected with BB, or is it just that your admiration for them has inspired you to register on boards to enthuse about them?

Jim101

Cianos wrote: »

Yeah I take an interest in organisations that seek to take advantage of vulnerable people by scamming them out of their money.

That's your opinion but I don't think you should be labeling anything a scam until you have researched the company in full. You're basing that opinion on either a bad experience with a Ponzi scheme or else just your own imagination.

I'm sure Mastercard fully agrees with you that Banners Broker is a Ponzi scheme scamming people out of money.

Come back to me when you've done your research into the company.

homeOwner

Jim101 wrote: »

It appears I'm the only person here posting that is actually in BB. But I can assure you there are people taking money out on a regular basis. Banners Broker have a 4 hour training day in well known Dublin hotel tomorrow morning between 9am and 1pm. PM me for details as I'm not sure if I should be posting them here.

I went to one in Limerick recently and basically it's a training on BB from start to finish. They tell you how the system works, how the money is generated and how the back office operates. Any questions that you have will be answered and I can assure you of that.

Thank you for the invitation but I wont be going. Simply put I do not believe your claims of profit or any of the info I have read about how the company makes money for their investors. It is just not credible to me.

If you are genuinely just an investor along with your dad I strongly advise you to bank some of the amazing profit you have made asap.

Best of luck with it.

jsemple

This is clearly a Ponzi scheme. If you know anybody involved you need to get them out somehow as a matter of urgency.

Let's just look at one thing a supposed beneficiary has said:

Jim101 wrote: »

Hi,
...
My investment is growing on average 18% week on week.
...

This is ludicrous. Nothing more needs to be looked at. If any scheme suggested an annual return of 18% I'd call it a ponzi scheme. If a scheme claimed a weekly return of 1.8% it would clearly be a ponzi scheme. But 18% a week???

To put this in perspective Bernie Madoff's investment scam touted 10% annually.

He also says he hopes to take out his initial investment after a year. After a year he'll have turned €1000 into €5.5million. I'm pretty sure I've seen Nigerian scams offer worse returns than that because even they recognise that's so implausible.