If you can't beat their argument, tear down their posters

wilson10

Not sure if it's happening countrywide but I have personally seen, in mid Louth, Yes posters torn down and replaced by Libertas No posters.

Apart from being bad form, I believe it's an offence to tear down an election poster.

timbyr

I've certainly noticed Yes posters going missing.

Hadn't figured if they were being moved or removed maliciously.

meglome

timbyr wrote: »

I've certainly noticed Yes posters going missing.

Hadn't figured if they were being moved or removed maliciously.

Haven't seen any removed but there is a massive number of no posters around town. Many from organisations I've never heard of before. Which makes me beg the question as to who is paying for them?

Telchak

Seen a poster on Ormond Quay in Dublin by the Socialist Party. It had a quote by Angela Merkel about the Treaty with any words such as 'must' or 'have to' bolded. Beside it was a picture of Merkel with a large black square between her nose and lip :rolleyes: Don't know if it was done on their part, or a sticker put on later, but very bad form altogether :mad:

Ozymandius2011

Not seen any such thing.

meglome

Telchak wrote: »

Seen a poster on Ormond Quay in Dublin by the Socialist Party. It had a quote by Angela Merkel about the Treaty with any words such as 'must' or 'have to' bolded. Beside it was a picture of Merkel with a large black square between her nose and lip :rolleyes: Don't know if it was done on their part, or a sticker put on later, but very bad form altogether :mad:

I passed a very large one on the corner of Stephen's green saying 'Democracy is dead' etc etc with a picture of Merkel standing like Hitler.

Really scraping the bottom of the barrel, and I don't care who put it up it's disgraceful.

PopeBuckfastXVI

meglome wrote: »

I passed a very large one on the corner of Stephen's green saying 'Democracy is dead etc etc with a picture of Merkel standing like Hitler.

Democracy has more lives than a horror movie killer. It seems to have been killed at every referendum since 1972, only to pop back up, Jason Voorhees style, and have to be killed all over again at the next one.

meglome

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

Democracy has more lives than a horror movie killer. It seems to have been killed at every referendum since 1972, only to pop back up, Jason Voorhees style, and have to be killed all over again at the next one.

Yeah funnily someone called me on my claim that Sinn Fein has always claimed we lost our sovereignty, the same for every treaty with Europe. So I went to the Sinn Fein site and proved it in spades, I imagine they won't do that again.

The Waltzing Consumer

meglome wrote: »

I passed a very large one on the corner of Stephen's green saying 'Democracy is dead' etc etc with a picture of Merkel standing like Hitler.

Really scraping the bottom of the barrel, and I don't care who put it up it's disgraceful.

I don't think it would be wise for any ULA party to start moaning about democracy on posters seeing as how Joe Higgins, the democraticaly elected MEP was replaced by an absolute nobody who was never voted for when Joe became TD and is now to be seen on lots of No posters.

:pac: Democracy is dead only when the majority do not agree with them.

Vita nova

wilson10 wrote: »

Not sure if it's happening countrywide but I have personally seen, in mid Louth, Yes posters torn down and replaced by Libertas No posters.

Apart from being bad form, I believe it's an offence to tear down an election poster.

I got that impression as well but unfortunately I have no hard evidence.

I often travel along the M4 towards Dublin and take the slip road for Liffey Valley just before the M50. I could have sworn there were numerous Yes posters approaching and along the slip road, however, yesterday it was exclusively No posters from Libertas. Similar situation along Fonthill Road.

Is there anybody else that takes that route, and has noticed something similar?

Wider Road

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

meglome wrote: »

I passed a very large one on the corner of Stephen's green saying 'Democracy is dead' etc etc with a picture of Merkel standing like Hitler.

Really scraping the bottom of the barrel, and I don't care who put it up it's disgraceful.

I don't think it would be wise for any ULA party to start moaning about democracy on posters seeing as how Joe Higgins, the democraticaly elected MEP was replaced by an absolute nobody who was never voted for when Joe became TD and is now to be seen on lots of No posters.

:pac: Democracy is dead only when the majority do not agree with them.

Remind us again on who replaced Alan Kelly the Labour democratically elected MEP when Kelly became a TD!

Hawkeye123

wilson10 wrote: »

Not sure if it's happening countrywide but I have personally seen, in mid Louth, Yes posters torn down and replaced by Libertas No posters.

Apart from being bad form, I believe it's an offence to tear down an election poster.

What a co-incidence. I too have seen this phenomenon but it was the Libertas posters which were being torn down and replaced with non-Libertas posters. This is happening in Cork but the vandals are probably from outside the county.

Godge

meglome wrote: »

Haven't seen any removed but there is a massive number of no posters around town. Many from organisations I've never heard of before. Which makes me beg the question as to who is paying for them?

Could they be printed with O'Snodaigh's print cartridges?

PopeBuckfastXVI

Along the Newcastle Road in Galway, every 'yes' poster is defaced with 'lies', 'NO' or slogans that won't make it past boards' swear filter.

I haven't seen one 'No' poster so defaced, anywhere.

Fussgangerzone

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

I don't think it would be wise for any ULA party to start moaning about democracy on posters seeing as how Joe Higgins, the democraticaly elected MEP was replaced by an absolute nobody who was never voted for when Joe became TD and is now to be seen on lots of No posters.

:pac: Democracy is dead only when the majority do not agree with them.

So, what you're saying is, the political processes put in place by the EU are undemocratic? You must hate the European Commission so. :P

RandomName2

meglome wrote: »

Many from organisations I've never heard of before.

Such as?

The only malicious interference that I can remember in terms of posters with Lisbon 2 was in relation to anti-Coir folk (the LIES stickers and illegal No to Nuts posters)

meglome

RandomName2 wrote: »

Such as?

I didn't take pictures but if I get a chance I will. I'd never heard of the organisations though. Notwithstanding some of the real barrel scraping that was going on.

RandomName2 wrote: »

The only malicious interference that I can remember in terms of posters with Lisbon 2 was in relation to anti-Coir folk (the LIES stickers and illegal No to Nuts posters)

Should I go on?

German pointer

wilson10 wrote: »

Not sure if it's happening countrywide but I have personally seen, in mid Louth, Yes posters torn down and replaced by Libertas No posters.

Apart from being bad form, I believe it's an offence to tear down an election poster.

Not being smart but it's not an election but a referndum, so do the same laws apply

later12

meglome wrote: »

Should I go on?

I think it's someone else's turn






Lets leave it there shall we? Both sides completely mis-representing the case, as usual.

RandomName2

meglome wrote: »

I didn't take pictures but if I get a chance I will. I'd never heard of the organisations though. Notwithstanding some of the real barrel scraping that was going on.


Should I go on?

Well most of those are Lisbon (yeh, I know, Google Images mightn't have Fiscal Compact yet).

Also the organisations there are Workers Party, Socialist, eirigi (these three have been around donkey's years), and Coir (also around quite a while, even if it only gets involved in referenda - and not even this one, thank God) and Libertas (never head of them - really? )

No idea about the anti-Israeli one - saw it myself at the time - but that's also Lisbon.

meglome

later12 wrote: »

I think it's someone else's turn
Lets leave it there shall we? Both sides completely mis-representing the case, as usual.

I have said many times I hate the way our referenda are run. However the point I'm making is I hear 'Yes for Jobs' almost every bloody day. I do not hear a peep about the many many things the no camp said. And I'm not even going to get into how much worse the content of those no posters are.

RandomName2 wrote: »

Well most of those are Lisbon (yeh, I know, Google Images mightn't have Fiscal Compact yet).

Also the organisations there are Workers Party, Socialist, eirigi (these three have been around donkey's years), and Coir (also around quite a while, even if it only gets involved in referenda - and not even this one, thank God) and Libertas (never head of them - really? )

No idea about the anti-Israeli one - saw it myself at the time - but that's also Lisbon.

Sure they are of Lisbon as you mentioned Lisbon 2 in your post above. But it's much the same again all over town. So the examples are very valid.

later12

meglome wrote: »

I have said many times I hate the way our referenda are run. However the point I'm making is I hear 'Yes for Jobs' almost every bloody day.

Tell us how Lisbon was Good for Gays then?

meglome

later12 wrote: »

Tell us how Lisbon was Good for Gays then?

You're pushing me to say who were the worst liars which I have no real interest in doing, all the lying and exaggeration is bad. I will say though that the mostly aspirational statements from the government and yes campaign, while crappy, are not in the same league as what the no camp claimed.

PopeBuckfastXVI

later12 wrote: »

Tell us how Lisbon was Good for Gays then?

Article 21 of the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union given force of Law by adoption of the Lisbon treaty makes it illegal to discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation, everywhere, in the entire EU.

Zulu

later12 wrote: »

Tell us how Lisbon was Good for Gays then?

Was it bad for gays?

later12

Zulu wrote: »

Was it bad for gays?

It wasn't good, it was fabulous.


No, the issue is it was nothing to do with gays, abortion, climate change, Israel, or jobs in Cork. It was just another example of how a referendum campaign is hijacked by issues that have very little to do with the point of the exercise - a bit like the upcoming Treaty, sometimes.

The point of this is that both sides are guilty of it.

RandomName2

meglome wrote: »

You're pushing me to say who were the worst liars which I have no real interest in doing, all the lying and exaggeration is bad. I will say though that the mostly aspirational statements from the government and yes campaign, while crappy, are not in the same league as what the no camp claimed.

Ah but the yes campaign was the government, NGOs aided by the government, and those sponsored by EU Parliamentary bodies. When you take into account the fact that the Government had helped create the treaty, had approved the treaty, was opposed to a referendum on the matter, forced a revote (without changing their mantra about the economic benefits of Lisbon) and allowed EU pressure to come to bear (Sarcozy, Barossa, etc.) on the public, it kind of outweighs the immorality of tinfoil hats ranting about EU armies.

Noticed how GUE/NGL and the Independent Democratic EU Parliamentary groups are weighing in in a very obvious manner on behalf of the No side this time...

Wider Road

Fussgangerzone wrote: »

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

I don't think it would be wise for any ULA party to start moaning about democracy on posters seeing as how Joe Higgins, the democraticaly elected MEP was replaced by an absolute nobody who was never voted for when Joe became TD and is now to be seen on lots of No posters.

:pac: Democracy is dead only when the majority do not agree with them.

So, what you're saying is, the political processes put in place by the EU are undemocratic? You must hate the European Commission so. :P

Some of ye are forgetting Alan Kelly now a TD in Tipperary North doing the same as Joe Higgins, ie first an MEP, now a TD. "The Waltzing Consumer" sees nothing wrong with Labour doing this yet has a problem with democracy when ULA does the same thing!!

oscarBravo

later12 wrote: »

No, the issue is it was nothing to do with gays, abortion, climate change, Israel, or jobs in Cork.

Didn't Lisbon make environmental policy a core competence of the union?

Ozymandius2011

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

Article 21 of the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union given force of Law by adoption of the Lisbon treaty makes it illegal to discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation, everywhere, in the entire EU.

Not really. The Charter's provisions only apply to EU law - not national law. So EU law can't discriminate but national law may be a different matter.

PopeBuckfastXVI

Ozymandius2011 wrote: »

Not really. The Charter's provisions only apply to EU law - not national law. So EU law can't discriminate but national law may be a different matter.

And national implementations of EU law, don't forget.

The point is the claim that Lisbon is 'good for gays' is not equivalent to the claim that Lisbon is bringing in a lower minimum wage, question mark or not, so it's not fair to hold it up as an example of disingenuous argument, because forbidding discrimination based on sexual orientation, in any context, is good for gays. We can argue on exactly how good, but then the leaflet doesn't specify how good itself, so that particular argument would be superfluous to the point being made.

later12

oscarBravo wrote: »

Didn't Lisbon make environmental policy a core competence of the union?

Almost all the slogans, even the more outlandish ones, were based on something in the Lisbon Treaty. Lisbon was more of a re-emphasis of existing environmental policy than anything else, but I acknowledge there were some new developments allowed for in Lisbon, specifically in terms of climate change, and therefore I shouldn't have included it.

aspie mum

The problem with politics is a lot of people dont understand what they vote for esp in a European election...you vote for a candiate and a list of recplacements who are listed in the nomination
so when the ULA did a swap it was to the next elegible person on the list people voted for,
same with labour and
the same is hapening in the north now with Martina Anderson talking from De Bruin.....

All on lists voted for by people who dont bother to ask what they are voting for

C14N

meglome wrote: »

I passed a very large one on the corner of Stephen's green saying 'Democracy is dead' etc etc with a picture of Merkel standing like Hitler.

Democracy isn't dead, just being cheapened and vandalized by stuff like this.

later12 wrote: »

Tell us how Lisbon was Good for Gays then?

Not saying it made much of a difference for gays, but it looks like that poster came from an LGBT group. Perhaps they believed the posters that said it would legalise gay marriage? Or maybe that was a poster from Cóir that was supposed to be anti-Lisbon?

stefanovich

During the last elections I first saw Sinn Fein and Socialist Party posters up on the Ennis Road in Limerick. The next morning there was Fine Gael and Fianna Fail posters. A large number of the Sinn Fein and Socialist posters had the ties snipped so they were hanging upside down or facing the wrong way.

crusher000

What your forgetting is that there are people being paid to put up the posters for both sides. They're paid by the amount of posters they put up. If they come to a pole and there's no room snip snip and up goes the poster they have and they get paid. It's not vabalism it's captilism that's driving this.

stefanovich

crusher000 wrote: »

What your forgetting is that there are people being paid to put up the posters for both sides. They're paid by the amount of posters they put up. If they come to a pole and there's no room snip snip and up goes the poster they have and they get paid. It's not vabalism it's captilism that's driving this.

That makes sense alright but from what I saw it didn't seem to be the motivation in this case. The top ties were cut so they were hanging upside-down or turned so they were facing away from the road.

Posters should be banned altogether. It is pure advertising and encourages uninformed voting or voting based on peoples looks, slogans or because a candidate looks familiar.

goat2

i think there should not be posters put up, it is not going to sway anyone one way or the other, they should save our money by scrapping these posters

kippy

I said this before the last Lisbon vote.

This whole "more jobs" claim that was being made at the time was always going to be a tough one to link with a yes vote.
And the no side now are saying that claim was false and widely false, however had we voted no, who knows whether we would have had the same level of job creation/unemployment as we have now? It could be worse??

C14N

stefanovich wrote: »

Posters should be banned altogether. It is pure advertising and encourages uninformed voting or voting based on peoples looks, slogans or because a candidate looks familiar.

Couldn't agree more. Not to mention the visual eyesore that they are, the cost that could have gone to something worthwhile and the damage to the environment of posters that will inevitably end up just lying around afterward.

Agent Smith

Mysteriously, Posters that I myself put up have Not only blown down, But the wind also took down the cable ties! Then another gust of wind put up some no posters!


pesky wind!

Robbo

There's a load of yes ones were taken by poor quality cable ties snapping in the wind this week. Luckily the second wave of ULA ones (Jaws, the hurls etc) were erected using far superior cable ties on the same poles this week. That wind even managed to wedge a Labour one in tight against an ESB cabinet on Dominick St.

telecaster

I think there should be a ban on political posters unless they are on the designated advertising areas that everyone else who wants to advertise something pays for the useage of, such as bus stops etc.

I struggle to see what purpose it serves to have 3 'Vote YES' posters on one lampost and then 3 'Vote NO' posters on the next. They cancel each other out do they not? They also make the place look awful for the duration of the campaign. A waste of money and a waste of paper/toughened cardboard/flexiboard and print too.

Does anyone's vote change because they saw the word YES more often than NO? It's idiot stuff.

Can we have a referrendum on banning these useless eyesores?

PopeBuckfastXVI

telecaster wrote: »

Can we have a referrendum on banning these useless eyesores?

I'd bloody hate to see the posters that'd go up for that one!

telecaster

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

I'd bloody hate to see the posters that'd go up for that one!

A rather one-sided campaign I expect