Please sign feral cat petition

kildare.17hmr

An unneutwres breeding pair of feral cata can become i think about 200,000 in a decade!

Odelay

boomerang wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_cat

Wikipedia doesn't convince me. All that article provides is a reference from an ornithologist's report of 1916 (Ornithologist - biased much?) problems with European mammals introduced to New Zealand and Oz from the old world, and the problems for vulnerable species in small island populations.

Where's the data to show us the effect of feral cats on Irish bird populations?

If it's out there and it's un-biased, I do want to see it. I'm not blind to the fact that un-controlled populations of feral cats can cause problems.

http://www.wildlifeextra.com/go/news/feral-cat-US.html#cr

Odelay

boomerang wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_cat

Wikipedia doesn't convince me. All that article provides is a reference from an ornithologist's report of 1916 (Ornithologist - biased much?) problems with European mammals introduced to New Zealand and Oz from the old world, and the problems for vulnerable species in small island populations.

Where's the data to show us the effect of feral cats on Irish bird populations?


If it's out there and it's un-biased, I do want to see it. I'm not blind to the fact that un-controlled populations of feral cats can cause problems.

If that food supply consists of an endangered small mammal or bird, the effect of feral cats on the environment can be devastating.

http://www.knowyourcat.info/lib/feralcats.htm

boomerang

The feral cat population is believed to roughly equal that of the pet cat population.

Even if I actively disliked feral cats and agreed with shooting them, I'd still think it wrong that anyone can shoot at what they believe to be a feral cat. Granted most feral cats that get shot are in rural areas, and it's known that they are not owned. In a lot of cases the farmer has un-neutered yard cats and wants to cut down the numbers.

In suburban and urban areas, where you find most feral cats, it is much more difficult to distinguish them from pet cats and stray cats. I can't imagine it'll ever be acceptable for people to shoot cats in built-up areas.

I do think feral cats deserve better status. I have had small families of cats (say, 4-5) health-checked, wormed and neutered and provided with proper food and shelter. In some cases they've been relocated to farms, where they're doing a good job of pest control. These cats have become increasingly tame to the people they see everyday.

As it stands, there is nothing to prevent these cats being shot by someone on a whim. Strictly speaking it is illegal to poison them, but that goes on all the time too. I've seen them writhing in agony and have brought them to the vet to be put out of their misery.

I don't believe there should be un-controlled, un-regulated killing of any species, pest or not.

Spunk84

Its never going to happen pure and simple:D their feral so no one owns them, its like having a wolf population in donegal and the sheep farmers saying its ok..... just another waste of a thread that will be closed in time

cambridge

boomerang wrote: »

In some cases they've been relocated to farms, where they're doing a good job of pest control. As it stands, there is nothing to prevent these cats being shot by someone on a whim.

If they live on a farm, they should be considered the property of the farmer. Feral cats are not the property of the farmer, therefore these cats are not be considered feral, despite them living ferally. Hunters would have no right to shoot on the farmers lands without permission, when giving permission he should explain that the cats are his and not to be shot.

Cork boy 55

What is European union policy?
What examples are available elsewhere in EU to deal with this infestation?

boomerang

Odelay wrote: »

If that food supply consists of an endangered small mammal or bird, the effect of feral cats on the environment can be devastating.

http://www.knowyourcat.info/lib/feralcats.htm

I totally agree Odelay, but I do want hard facts for Ireland and the UK. You'll find some feral cat welfare groups making claims that feral cats do insignificant damage to wildlife, and you'll also have nature lovers and the shooting/hunting fraternity saying that feral cats decimate wildlife. I suspect the truth is somewhere in the middle and very much depends on the location of the cats.

Odelay

boomerang wrote: »

The feral cat population is believed to roughly equal that of the pet cat population.

Even if I actively disliked feral cats and agreed with shooting them, I'd still think it wrong that anyone can shoot at what they believe to be a feral cat. Granted most feral cats that get shot are in rural areas, and it's known that they are not owned. In a lot of cases the farmer has un-neutered yard cats and wants to cut down the numbers.

In suburban and urban areas, where you find most feral cats, it is much more difficult to distinguish them from pet cats and stray cats. I can't imagine it'll ever be acceptable for people to shoot cats in built-up areas.

I do think feral cats deserve better status. I have had small families of cats (say, 4-5) health-checked, wormed and neutered and provided with proper food and shelter. In some cases they've been relocated to farms, where they're doing a good job of pest control. These cats have become increasingly tame to the people they see everyday.

As it stands, there is nothing to prevent these cats being shot by someone on a whim. Strictly speaking it is illegal to poison them, but that goes on all the time too. I've seen them writhing in agony and have brought them to the vet to be put out of their misery.

I don't believe there should be un-controlled, un-regulated killing of any species, pest or not.

True, willy-nilly killing is not required, I agree. However if domesticated cats wore a bell (would also alert birds) then it would be easier to distinguish domestic from feral in most cases.

kildare.17hmr

Lollers wrote: »

Well said, unfortunately some people have an almost psychopathic desire to murder cats.

Murder? :rolleyes:

boomerang

cambridge wrote: »

If they live on a farm, they should be considered the property of the farmer. Feral cats are not the property of the farmer, therefore these cats are not be considered feral, despite them living ferally. Hunters would have no right to shoot on the farmers lands without permission, when giving permission he should explain that the cats are his and not to be shot.

That gave me a pain in my head, not sure I follow you.

How do we define living ferally? These cats sleep in the haybarn and are fed daily.

Feral cats are not to be considered feral, in some situations? Say, where they perform a function?

Odelay

boomerang wrote: »

I totally agree Odelay, but I do want hard facts for Ireland and the UK. You'll find some feral cat welfare groups making claims that feral cats do insignificant damage to wildlife, and you'll also have nature lovers and the shooting/hunting fraternity saying that feral cats decimate wildlife. I suspect the truth is somewhere in the middle and very much depends on the location of the cats.

Fair point boomerang, I'll have a look tomorrow and see what i can find. I appreciate your hunt for honest/relevant information.

boomerang

I agree Odelay, universal enforcement of mandatory identification such as tattooing, microchipping or even ear-tipping would offer cats more protection.

Ultimately I hope there is a situation where owners are required to keep their cats on their property, but that is probably a long, long way down the road.

To the hunting folk, would it make a difference to you if the cat was ear-tipped to show it is neutered and part of a managed-colony?

Odelay wrote: »

True, willy-nilly killing is not required, I agree. However if domesticated cats wore a bell (would also alert birds) then it would be easier to distinguish domestic from feral in most cases.

kildare.17hmr

Lollers wrote: »

Sorry not murder, I meant putting a bullet in their brain or poisoning them and letting them die in agony.

Shooting is humane no matter what anyone thinks they die instantly. Poisioning on the other hand is wrong and should not be done

dodderangler

Kildare.17hmr I know exactly what u mean
As a fellow hunter we seem to be able to spot a feral cat from a mile therefore can take them out now obviously we'd ask the farmer are they a problem if so then they are shot
Trappin them I don't agree with why trap a problem and release it to be someone else's problem
Some farmers may approve of 1 or 2 feral cats to keep rats and mice at bay but they then breed and can be quite dangerous aswell what bout farmers has grand kids visit and young child sees the cat thinks its ordinary cat and next thing gets scraped bitten whatever and ends up in bad way with no way of tellin what disease it had

kildare.17hmr

boomerang wrote: »

To the hunting folk, would it make a difference to you if the cat was ear-tipped to show it is neutered and part of a managed-colony?

it would really depend on the area they are in and the land owners wishes. I wouldnt like to shoot someones pet but imo if its a pet it should be kept on the owners property

Spunk84

A dog can be legally shot when found on land harassing livestock,so why cant a cat be shot for harassing protected species such as birds?

foxer3640

As someone who is involved in hunting for the last 20 years i really dont see feral cats as a problem. I spend a lot of time on the land through my work and i scarcely ever see cats. Who wants to shoot a cat that may be some old ladys pet. When i was growing up we always had cats around the farm. They were all pets but yet they had the run of the place. Would this make them feral? If your that desperate to fire at something put up some targets and leave the cats alone. Just my opinion dont want to piss anyone off

kildare.17hmr

I understand what your saying foxer, they are obviously not a problem in your area, there was a feckin huge colony on a sheep farm i shoot, all scraby dirty things and when the farmer started to have ewes aborting he asked for a total cull. There is a few around now the odd time but they are not a problem atm and the phesent numbers are way up on previous years which is good because the are all wild in this area because no gun club nearby relesing them

Curly Judge

I think that it's not only feral but also well fed house cats who go hunting through the hedgerows at night in search of a little extra curricular activity.
House cats should be locked in at night by the Moggy brigade.

UL_heart_throb

foxer3640 wrote: »

As someone who is involved in hunting for the last 20 years i really dont see feral cats as a problem. I spend a lot of time on the land through my work and i scarcely ever see cats. Who wants to shoot a cat that may be some old ladys pet. When i was growing up we always had cats around the farm. They were all pets but yet they had the run of the place. Would this make them feral? If your that desperate to fire at something put up some targets and leave the cats alone. Just my opinion dont want to piss anyone off

The problem is feral city cats not country...:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

cafecreme

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

it would really depend on the area they are in and the land owners wishes. I wouldnt like to shoot someones pet but imo if its a pet it should be kept on the owners property

If you're going to hunt an animal you should at least understand the basics about its nature. It is impossible to keep a cat on your property unless it's indoors. Your farmer is an irresponsible idiot to keep unneutered cats for vermin control. The sheep might have caught chlamydia from the cats but any farmer that watches cats around the yard getting scabby and not doing anything about until the whole lot of them plus kittens are infected is a dirty, lazy farmer and the disease could have come from any number of bad and lazy practices.
When you shoot ferals you create an empty space with a food supply for a other feral to move onto. Then the cycle begins again.trap neuter and release back to where you found them creates a stable population that will continue to exist for another few years then die off naturally. In urban areas this will probably mean culling most of the colony but it should be done humanely, not by shooting as you'd never get close enough to ferals for a clear clean kill. If a kid was scratched by the cats then they were not ferals, your lazy farmer mate had pet cats he was too mean to spay and allowed them breed freely. Shooting wild cats is not the way to go.

Traonach

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

Shooting is humane no matter what anyone thinks they die instantly.

You must be a brillant shot never to had a runner. So if shoot a running fox at 200 yards you always get an instant kill? What would happen if the bullet went through the hindleg instead, would the fox die instantly then?

dodderangler

.

You must be a brillant shot never to had a runner. So if shoot a running fox at 200 yards you always get an instant kill? What would happen if the bullet went through the hindleg instead, would the fox die instantly then?

Why would u shoot a fox runnin at 200 yards are you for real
For 1 there's no way you'd hit a fox at 200 yards with a rifle while it's runnin and I don't know anyone stupid enough to shoot a movin target with a rifle as its dangerous and all hunters know this
Secondly all rifle shots are head shots for clean kill and even hunters don't like a animal suffering so head shots or heart shots are the shots taking
Feral cats are a danger to young children as a child sees it as ordinary cat but they will attack
My dad and I called to a farmer we know to cull feral cats a few years ago as she was terrified of them attackin someone mainly grand kids as these cats would spit and hiss at her and no one wants that
And it's farmers land if he doesn want feral cats on it then they don't want them so cullin is way to go not trappin or releasing a potentially dangerous animal that will attack a young child

Traonach

dodderangler wrote: »

.
Why would u shoot a fox runnin at 200 yards are you for real
For 1 there's no way you'd hit a fox at 200 yards with a rifle while it's runnin and I don't know anyone stupid enough to shoot a movin target with a rifle as its dangerous and all hunters know this
Secondly all rifle shots are head shots for clean kill and even hunters don't like a animal suffering so head shots or heart shots are the shots taking
Feral cats are a danger to young children as a child sees it as ordinary cat but they will attack
My dad and I called to a farmer we know to cull feral cats a few years ago as she was terrified of them attackin someone mainly grand kids as these cats would spit and hiss at her and no one wants that
And it's farmers land if he doesn want feral cats on it then they don't want them so cullin is way to go not trappin or releasing a potentially dangerous animal that will attack a young child

Anyone who goes foxing and says the fox always dies instantly in full of shíte.

Spunk84

Traonach wrote: »

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

Shooting is humane no matter what anyone thinks they die instantly.

You must be a brillant shot never to had a runner. So if shoot a running fox at 200 yards you always get an instant kill? What would happen if the bullet went through the hindleg instead, would the fox die instantly then?

Are you mad !!!! Who in their right mind would shoot a running target :O not sure who u are talking to or u do it yourself but that maybe the stupidest and most dangerous thing to do .... A person should have his license revoked if they do that

cafecreme

dodderangler wrote: »

.
Why would u shoot a fox runnin at 200 yards are you for real
For 1 there's no way you'd hit a fox at 200 yards with a rifle while it's runnin and I don't know anyone stupid enough to shoot a movin target with a rifle as its dangerous and all hunters know this
Secondly all rifle shots are head shots for clean kill and even hunters don't like a animal suffering so head shots or heart shots are the shots taking
Feral cats are a danger to young children as a child sees it as ordinary cat but they will attack
My dad and I called to a farmer we know to cull feral cats a few years ago as she was terrified of them attackin someone mainly grand kids as these cats would spit and hiss at her and no one wants that
And it's farmers land if he doesn want feral cats on it then they don't want them so cullin is way to go not trappin or releasing a potentially dangerous animal that will attack a young child

Feral cats will never attack humans as they are far too wary to get that close to them. A child would have more chance of being attacked by a sheep. Culling is acceptable if done humanely.If you get close enough for clean shot they are pet cats that have been neglected by the farmer.shame on him for not minding them and being too mean to neuter when he has livestock, not to mention grandchildren. You cannot shoot cats humanely unless you have them pinned down and that in itself would involve cruelty. You talk as if they were cougars roaming round.

SillyMangoX

dodderangler wrote: »

.
Why would u shoot a fox runnin at 200 yards are you for real
For 1 there's no way you'd hit a fox at 200 yards with a rifle while it's runnin and I don't know anyone stupid enough to shoot a movin target with a rifle as its dangerous and all hunters know this
Secondly all rifle shots are head shots for clean kill and even hunters don't like a animal suffering so head shots or heart shots are the shots taking
Feral cats are a danger to young children as a child sees it as ordinary cat but they will attack
My dad and I called to a farmer we know to cull feral cats a few years ago as she was terrified of them attackin someone mainly grand kids as these cats would spit and hiss at her and no one wants that
And it's farmers land if he doesn want feral cats on it then they don't want them so cullin is way to go not trappin or releasing a potentially dangerous animal that will attack a young child

To be honest, a cat attacking a child is a very poor reason for a cull. A feral will run a hundred times over before it even thought of attacking. Cats really rely on flight more than fight. They only attack when cornered, or when it's absolutely necessary with another cat. (I'm talking about fighting now, not killing prey) So being worried that a cat might attack a grand child is just an excuse. Now if they said something like they were worried about the cats spreading disease such as toxoplasmosis to sheep or even children, I would say this is a valid excuse to deal with the problem.

I would hate the thought of someone killing my cats thinking they are feral. They are both neutered and have glossy coats and are full looking, as in not a bag of bones, but we have to put sun cream on one cat, and it makes his fur really greasy. If someone saw him, they may think he is a poorly groomed feral, particularly as he is terrified of humans. But at home, he never stops cuddling us and licking us and is just the perfect pet. They rarely kill any wildlife and when they do, it's been mice/young rats. They have killed one robin that was found dying during the bad weather, and managed to catch a pidgon once. Hardly a threat to the wildlife habitat, as even hunters shoot pidgons. I would absolutely hate the thought of someone taking a pot-shot at my babies, so much so that I keep them in all night every night. They have never spent a night away from the house.

I agree that ferals are a problem, I'm sick of pregnant ferals coming over stealing our cat's food, the farms near me are a nightmare with them. But rather than seeing them killed, if there are particular cats which are a problem to me or my neighbours, I catch them and relocate them to other farms (who request them, mainly family members of mine). I don't think a full cull would ever happen, and I don't agree with them being shot or poisoned. People who leave out poison are disgusting, killed my first cat. But at the same time, I can't see them becoming protected just because this is Ireland, and we don't have the best rep for animal welfare unfortunately.

kildare.17hmr

cafecreme wrote: »

If you're going to hunt an animal you should at least understand the basics about its nature. It is impossible to keep a cat on your property unless it's indoors. Your farmer is an irresponsible idiot to keep unneutered cats for vermin control. /Quote]


The farmer didnt keep them around, where did you see me say that?? It was a colony that we assume started from a nearby housing estate. And your very wrong about not being able to keep them on your own property, i know a few here do a very good job of that

I can guarantee you I have never seen a cat move an inch after being shot, i wont go into details but if you saw the result you would understand

kildare.17hmr

Traonach wrote: »

You must be a brillant shot never to had a runner. So if shoot a running fox at 200 yards you always get an instant kill? What would happen if the bullet went through the hindleg instead, would the fox die instantly then?

all the foxes iv shot iv had only one take a few steps after being shot and that was with my old smaller caliber rifle, every one iv shot with the larger caliber i now use has been dead before they hit the ground and never even heard the bang. Shooting a moving fox at 200 yards would not happen or be attwmpted, i would never want an animal to feel pain, i have let foxes go because iv been unsure of the shot or could not gurantee a clean kill