Dog with constant diarrhea

DogsFirst

Exclusion diets
If your dog has been sensitized to a particular protein, say beef or chicken, it is likely that the damage is lasting. Consuming these proteins in the future will induce memory cells in your dog’s immune system, which will respond accordingly. Sometimes your dog can have a problem with cooked and not fresh chicken say, sometimes it's both, depending.

Should you wish to identify which protein is causing the issue you need to conduct an exclusion trial. This has a bad reputation as being a difficult and lengthy process but it takes only three weeks for your dog to recover on a diet void of an offending antigen (Harvey, 1993) so you should see encouraging results relatively quickly. If you are happy to never know which one exactly is the problem you do not need to conduct such a trial, simply remove gluten, cooked protein and chemical additives. However often the beleaguered immune system of your sensitised dog is now likely to be reacting to a number of allergens, such is the nature of the beast (as in humans, Vaughn 1941). You may need to know what else is going on.

To begin first move your dog to a good hypoallergenic diet. This means using an animal protein the dog has never encountered before, such as raw fish, raw turkey or a game animal. Of these I highly recommend oily fish (excellent protein and plenty of omega 3 to calm the system, win win). You may also include hypoallergenic items such as plain boiled rice and later some egg. This is a nice, simple, natural base, one that your dog should settle and thrive on. Importantly you should keep the dog on this for three weeks to settle his conditions. Every dog is different so do feel free to vary slightly. When you find something that works, stick to it.

This is a very grey area, what's working for one may not work for you. I know one very problematic, previously-dry-fed-now-senitised-TO-EVERYTHING dog, who's base is boiled rice and cooked chicken. But if it works it works.

Next you begin with either your meats or your veg. Lets say meat. After a nice period of calm challenge your dog with some raw beef. If beef or chicken is an antigen, sometimes the raw version is fine, being of slightly different form. Incorporate 5-10% raw beef in each meal for three weeks. Usually you will get your answer within two or three days (skin allergy, sore ears, itchy paws, diarrhoea, unsettled behaviour) but dietary intolerance is a sneaky bugger, it can take weeks. Once three weeks is up, try the cooked version. Three weeks on that completely remove beef and move on to chicken, then lamb. These are the three most likely meat anitgens. You never to challenge with gluten, just assume it's a problem.

It's as easy, and as difficult, as that. You can only challenge with one protein at a time. Which makes sense. If you shovel in two or three things that week and next week his bum's like a cat flap in the hoover dam, you won't know who to blame. And cut out all treats! I know I know but every time you meet your best friend you don't stuff a mars bar in his mouth.

Other Stuff About The Place That Will Help
Immodioum (safe for use in dogs, half tablet) may give your dog the breather for a day or two but that is all. Additions such as pineapple or wheat grass may help alleviate diarrhoea in the short term; low fat probiotic yoghurt will help recuperate the good bacteria in the intestines lost during diarrhoea. Herbs such as camomile and slippery elm are brilliant for stomach lining.

Ms Tootsie

DogsFirst wrote: »

Hey Kaza,

I know about dicky dog tummies. Have a read of this, use to give it out to guide dog pup owners.

Diarrhoea in dogs
Diarrhoea is the body ridding the gastrointestinal tract of toxins. The gut doesn't like something going in. There are many causes including parasites such as Guardia or some form of worm, the overuse of antibiotics and stress, but by far the most common cause is their food. Tackling the food will right 9/10 recurring diarrhoea sufferers.

Should your dog have diarrhoea (more than once, allow for the brief, spontaneous and unexplainable accidents!) the very first step, as in us, is to stop putting food in. A simple stomach bug can be cleared up with 24hrs starvation for an adult dog or 12hrs for a younger pup. will invariably clear it up. For recurring diarrhoea sufferers same applies, maybe even longer, purge those troubled intestines. Leave out plenty of fresh water during this time (with a half teaspoon of sugar and pinch of salt for electrolytes if you think they need them).

Your dog likely has a food intolerance. You may notice your dog is very thin and you “can't put the weight on him”. You may also notice the coat is dry and crispy. The coat and skin are the first indicators that the nutrition is wrong as it takes up to 50% of the protein your dog eats every day just to keep right, such is it's rate of turnover, and they are the first thing to benefit from the addition of decent, fresh protein (in the form of meat). You may also notice that their faeces periodically contains a mucousy film – this is fragile the lining of the intestines and may be accompanied by a little blood (especially in coeliacs), especially in young pups, as the intestines are rife with blood vessels very close to the surface.

The main culprits are cereal gluten (wheat / barley / rye), casein in milk, cooked protein (all dry foods and why "chicken" and "beef" are the number one and two allergens in dogs today! A carnivore allergic to meat like a cow being allergic to grass. It's the processed form they have been sensitised to, though this can translate to the fresh varieties....its complicated). Point is, not all of the above can be avoided on a dry food, while you might dodge the wheat, they'll put gluten in (makes up cheap protein content, totally indigestible), all dry foods are cooked so their little immune systems are not getting the break and the problem will re-emerge down the road. And his system is obviously under fire so they don't need the chemicals in dry food. This is why vets always prescribe chicken and rice (rice is fine, while a grain it's nearly totally hypoallergenic) while they "find the right food"!!!

You must remove these antigens from the diet. If you continue to feed the wrong foods, not only will the diarrhoea continue and coat and weight suffer, the delicate microflora balance of the gut will be disrupted. Tropical sprue may occur, which is the blooming of the wrong form of bacteria in the intestines. If you bring your dog to a vet at this point this sprue is often diagnosed as the issue causing the problem (and not your food antigens). You will then leave that surgery with an expensive course of intestinal biota-ruining antibiotics but without removing the issue, you will be back next month, just with a skinnier dog, worse coat and lighter wallet..

The most important step to fixing the issue is starving the dog and purging the system, as we would ourselves. For older dogs skip two feeds / one day, for pups one feed / half day. Like us, when we are sick we don't shove a load of food in top of it. The next few meals should be easy, chicken broth for example. Easy on the stomach and packed full of vital bits and pieces. While you set about discovering what caused it via an exclusion diet. That's coming next

Thank you so much for all this information! It helps to have everything explained so clearly. We have also noticed he has been putting on a bit of weight. one thing you mentioned in your post about the not gaining weight and the wirey coat was something we noticed. We have just got groomed and since we switched off the dry food initially a while back we noticed his hair was growing back shiney-er. I did think switching to a good brand with 'proper' 'decent' ingrediants would keep this up but a lot of these brands still have wheat.

We are pretty sure at this stage it is wheat that is the culprit. We have been feeding him boiled rice and potatoes with lightly (more just whizzed in the microwave because he wont touch it raw) chicken, beef and pork. In the last few days we have added in some carrots and gravy and peas, all with great success. Instantly the day after we switched him back on to this type of food (home made / cooked) we have seen an improvement. I think we are going to continue with this diet until we can afford to get the allergy test done so that we can confirm our suspicions that it is the wheat that is the problem and then perhaps find a dry food that doesnt contain wheat.

I am just concerned that we might either not be feeding him enough, or on the otherhand over feeding him. It is easier to gauge with dry food as instructions for size and weight are on the back. Any boardsies with advice on this would be greatly appreciated!! Thanks!!

DogsFirst

It's almost always the wheat, closely followed by processed beef / chicken. Everything else, flea bites, carpet cleaners, food chemicals, pollen etc is secondary to the consuming the others for a long period. Great news he's stabilising, it's such a relief isn't it? Poor little fella.

Very loose estimate would be 20% of his current body weight per week, or 3% of his body weight a day. But if you're looking to put weight on a skinny dog, or if he is growing, or if he's simply a nutter that won't stop running around the garden this number gets much higher. Remember fresh food has 75% water, dry food only 10%, so you'll be feeding at least 50% more fresh food than you would be of dry food. Stuff it in there if trying to get a bit of weight on. Lots of fresh meat, bitta cooked veg if you want, and boiled spuds (boil the rice / spuds in the left over water after steaming the veg to get all the good stuff in there, i thrown in a clove or two of garlic too, great antiox, great for immune system that is faltering, keeps mix fresher for longer in the fridge.

fenris

We have a similar issue with one of our dogs, he is a 4 year old Irish Setter and he gets runny and even bloody poo if he gets at anything containing wheat/maize, even the leftover crusts scavenged from the kids lunch boxes will trigger it.

We went through all of the steps in the posts above over the last few years and this is what works for us.

1. keep a couple of tins of Hills GI dog food for emergencies - if he gets a flare up we put him on the Hills GI for a couple of days until things firm up - approx half the recommended amount and nothing else except water. Normally takes about 2 - 3 days.

2. James Wellbeloved - the white fish one if possible for day to day feeding.

3. Normally two but sometimes three feeds a day, too much food runs through him, without the blood but messy none the less. If he is looking particularly scrawny we put an extra feed in until he is back to himself.

4. Raw chicken pieces, raw fish raw veg etc when we are cooking, but avoid the cooked food as there is normally something in there with flour that will set him off - yep including gravy or pasta.

5. Really control any other food or treats, once you have the dog sorted they seem to get extra sensitive to the allergen or maybe they just react more, but the little tidbit that would not have caused a visible problem when the dog was in exploding bottom land will have a big impact when his diet is sorted. I understand that this is the same for people with food intolerance.

You can't get it perfectly right all of the time, a dog is a dog and will actively scavenge while making no connection between a stolen crust of bread and feeling sorry for himself with a raw arse. You just have to be ready for it and get it under control as soon as you can.

He will look very skinny until you get this sorted, think of it the same way as a coeliac human has to eat and you will not be far off, for allergic reactions you don't need a lot of the allergen to set it off so a small amount may trigger what looks like a disproportionate response leading you to miss the culprit, e.g. the flour that is often used in gravy or sauces. Think kids with peanut allergies.

DogsFirst

Do you know many people with setters and how many do you think have this trouble? Poor old setters.

fenris

Sometimes I wonder how much of the Irish Setter reputation for being madder than a box of frogs is down to the doggy equivalent of feeding kids a steady diet of jelly tots!

Ms Tootsie

We have had our guy on a home cooked / raw diet for a few weeks now and not a runny poo in sight. He is still a bit funny with raw meat so I have been giving it a bit of a whizz in the microwave or boiling it (but not until it is fully cooked) and that seems to be working.

Normally we feed him twice a day consisting of chicken, pork or beef mixed in with boiled white rice or potatoes and carrots or celery. If we are having gravy with dinner I will add a bit of that as well. He loves eggs but the smell in the evenings when he is snoozing in the living room is a bit too much for us to handle so he will only be getting those as treats from now on

We are pretty sure it is the wheat that was the problem. Unfortunately we can't afford the allergy test at the minute (200e at our vet) so until we can be 100% sure that it is the wheat we have been avoiding giving him anything like bread or pasta. He is still able to eat treats (dog biscuits etc) which have that 'cereal ingrediant' but as we only use them for rewards and his toilet training he wouldnt get enough of them to really have an effect.

He will only eat raw meat from the bone so anytime I am in the butchers he has given me scraps and the little guys goes to town on them, try to give him something like that about twice a week and then on a Friday and Saturday night we will give him a pigs ear as a treat.

Good news is that I can already see the weight going on him which is a relief, it means there are no underlying problems causing him to be skinny other than a bit of a sensitive tummy.

The plan is to keep him on the home made diet for a few more months and then look for a dry dog food without wheat (someone on here mentioned James Wellbeloved the fish version) if that works then we will add a bit of dry food to the home made and keep it at a bit of a mix, with each of his feeds being 50% dry and 50% home made.

Thanks again for all your help guys!!

DogsFirst

Hi Kaza,

Great news, onwards and upwards.

I would definitely cut out those cereal based dog treats. Just a little gluten / casein / shrimp / peanut whatever your allergy is like being a little bit pregnant. You may not notice the big signs that he was displaying earlier but they will do damage as the immune system will freak each and every time it encounters the protein strands.

Those dry pet treats are absolute gack, made months ago, sitting open in pet stores for weeks or months, stale as bejaesus and crawling with dust mites. Far better buy a big dirty sack of gluten free sausages from a butchers outlet, cook them for 5 or 10mins in oven on trays and chop into discs. Freeze these in hadfuls in small ziplocs and keep one bag in fridge. Dirt cheap and dogs will break their back for them. I add a little diced garlic to mine when cooking for extra pizzazz.

And dry fed dogs with little experience of meat to sus at it initially, believe me it goes away!