I'm an Alcoholic

flutterflye

Wattle wrote: »

I get what your saying. Some people do use the disease thing as an excuse not to tackle it but like HIV and Cancer, alcoholism can also kill you in the end.

So can smoking, and that is not a disease.
Yes, it fcuks with your brain, but so do alot of things.
It is an addiction, a dependency, an illness even, but it is not a diease, and I don't care who says it is - it just isn't!!

gizmo555

mishkalucy wrote: »

The reason I asked this was because on a recent anti booze campaign thing they said drinking every day was in fact worse than binge drinking

This is true to an extent. The liver is a pretty robust organ, if it's given time to recover. This is why, for example, the French used to have the highest rate of cirrhosis in the world, because of their habit of drinking wine daily with meals.

Of course, there are all sorts of other risks associated with binge drinking apart from liver damage. My late next door neighbour fell on the stairs after coming home extremely drunk and broke his neck . . .

The key message, Dr Sheron said, was that by cutting out alcohol on three or four days of the week the risk of liver disease was substantially reduced.

He said instead of drinking a bottle of cheap wine every night, it is better is save the money and spent it on a couple of good bottles of wine for the weekend.

"Most of the health problems from binge drinking are related to being drunk, they are car crashes, accidents and fights and they tend to be associated with young people. As you get older and drink more frequently the health harms tend to be from the chronic effects of alcohol rather than getting drunk," he said.

This is the scary bit:

Dr Sheron added: "The process of getting liver disease is completely symptomless. Often the first thing you know about it coming into hospital with a big internal bleed or turning yellow. One quarter of our patients die before they get a chance to stop drinking."

St.Spodo

I like having a few drinks, but could go weeks on end without having any and I wouldn't miss it. Don't usually get drunk, and haven't been in about 3 months or so.

cesc77

Chuck Stone wrote: »

I'd imagine that a person with a real disease like HIV, cancer or hepatitis etc. would find it difficult to hear addiction and substance abuse referred to as disease.

Also, referring to alcoholism as a disease is dangerous because it can allow the addict to absolve himself of responsibility for his addiction and ergo could actually prevent them from quitting - 'I have this bloody disease and I'll have it for the rest of my life so what's the point' kinda thing.

Another problem is that when you call an addiction a disease it's self-evident that you will need a 'cure'... enter all sorts of charlatans and puritans offering all sorts of remedies... everything from casting out demons to application of leeches.

poor form chuck

bad call

youre going to be castigated for this

sink

flutterflye wrote: »

So can smoking, and that is not a disease.
Yes, it fcuks with your brain, but so do alot of things.
It is an addiction, a dependency, an illness even, but it is not a diease, and I don't care who says it is - it just isn't!!

Yes it is, disease is an umbrella term of all medical conditions. Addiction is classified as a mental health disorder by the WHO (World Health Organisation), and mental disorders are classified as non-infectious diseases. Disease in popular nomenclature is often only taken to refer to infectious diseases such as bacterial and viral infections, but in medical nomenclature disease refers to every medical condition from broken bones to schizophrenia.

http://apps.who.int/classifications/icd10/browse/2010/en

Northclare

There are recreational drinkers,heavy drinkers and Alcoholics.

I think the heavy drinker can drink a lot but seems to just relax and get pissed or merry but ,gets into a taxi and goes home.

The Alcoholic is different they seem to want more and more drink,more than likely they won't go home,they will find somewhere else to stay.
They drink on their emotions and get abnormal compulsions to get hammered
and cause hurt to themselves or others.



The term disease in alcoholism is the fact the person is not at ease with their present life situation.
And the hurt and turmoil that the problem drinker causes just branches out and affects everyone around them, the damage spreads like a disease from the home to work.

You might hear of a farmer who drank 3 farms,well the way he did it was selling land and making dodgy deals all for the purpose of feeding the addiction.
Or buying dodgy cattle down at the mart.
Not paying the bills etc.....

Chuck Stone

sink wrote: »

Actually it is a disease, defined as such my many medical bodies the world over.

Where is the pathogen? Where is the marker? When is the onset? What is the cure? Can it be cured?

These questions are all easily answered when we talk about real diseases. For alcoholism there are no such answers.

It's not a simple case of choice,

Ultimately it is. If you locked up the addict the 'disease', as if by magic, disappears. Many smokers who have heart attacks, as if by magic, are suddenly 'cured' of their addiction.

an addicts brain is forever altered by their dependency

and simple willpower is not enough to overcome it.

Ultimately it is only will power that can overcome addiction. If the addict chooses not to stop then he cannot be 'cured' by any means or man.

It is a mental health disorder like clinical depression.

But you said it was a disease?

Telling an alcoholic to just stop drinking is akin the telling a person with depression to cheer up.

You can tell them whatever you like but ultimately it is the individual who chooses to quit.

Diseases can be managed and controlled if not cured, calling it a disease does not relinquish the burden of curing oneself.

Yes and how you manage and control alcoholism is by cutting down or quitting. You remove the poison and the organism heals itself.

Wattle wrote: »

I get what your saying. Some people do use the disease thing as an excuse not to tackle it but like HIV and Cancer, alcoholism can also kill you in the end.

You're confusing the outcome with the process. People can be killed in car crashes but they don't have driving-too-fast disease.

gigawatt

drinking is relative and varies greatly across cultures. some cultures consider it normal to drink everyday others have a very low social tolerance for alcohol.
A good rule of thumb is that if drinking is causing a problem in your life.... then you have a drinking problem.
If you drink regularly and it doesn't cause problems.... then you don't have a drinking problem (you just like drinking!)
things like missing work or falling behind in college or having relationship problems because of alcohol are good indicators of it becoming or being a problem.
overall IMO it depends on the person. Someone can drink once a month and have a drinking problem, others can drink every day and have no drinking problem.

Opticom

Guill wrote: »

My drinking does not affect my family we have a very loving caring and fun home, my wife bearly drinks btw.
It does not affect my work, I never miss a minute.
It does not affect my social life, I have a very large circle of close friends.

One day It just dawned on me that by definition I am an alcoholic. Not completely dependant but an alcoholic all the same.

I DO NOT FEEL ANY SHAME IN THIS.

No one should.
To me it should be no more difficult to say this than to say you are addicted to ciggarettes, coffee, chocolate etc. But for some reason people begin to look at you differently for such an admition. When I smoked and told people I was hooked there could be open discussion between friends and family about it.

No two Alcoholics are identical, but there can be similarities.

I've seen this type of thinking a few times before, what actually happens is that drink slowly starts to pickle the drinkers logic, your brain craves alcohol, so it will dream up all sorts of 'logic' for you.

Your personality will also slowly change over time, like a tree growing, it will be imperceptible to you, or the day to day observer.

I watched a few people’s lives destroyed by alcohol. It does not happen overnight, it takes years. People always underestimate drink. Always. That's its power. It's a slippery slope with a very deceiving gradient.

There's an old proverb :

First the man takes a drink, then the drink takes a drink, then drink takes the man.

I'm not being critical or judgemental, it's up to you really.
I just mean this as advice by the way, learned the hard way by others.
You can take it or leave it.

In my experience, you'll leave it, but I hope not.

Good luck, look after yourself, and if that is not a good enough reaon, think deeply about your family and the long term effects on them.

Temptamperu

I voted yes, although I haven't drank in almost a year. Drinking ruined most good things in my life, friends, work and family. Although I am slowly gaining trust in them again.

ascanbe

http://www.theonion.com/articles/im-like-a-chocoholic-but-for-booze,10739/

Helix

mishkalucy wrote: »

I'm not condoning alcohol abuse etc but does anyone else here think that 3 pints is a binge session?

it would be over here in canada by plenty of people

Princess Peach

Helix wrote: »

mishkalucy wrote: »

I'm not condoning alcohol abuse etc but does anyone else here think that 3 pints is a binge session?

it would be over here in canada by plenty of people

Pshhhh come to Newfounfland my friend! They know how to drink here!

Helix

Princess Peach wrote: »

Pshhhh come to Newfounfland my friend! They know how to drink here!

that's coz they're all of irish descent - i cant tell the difference between a newfie and irish accent any more

also, id define knowing how to drink as being able to go out and not get shìtfaced tbh

southcentralts

so ,my buckfast thread didn't go so well, so I guess this may be the one for me,

when I drink I never have "just the one", I drink until I have no money left then do not drink until the moment I do. I can go months without drinking but when I do it is session ON. so I do not agree with standard definitions of alcoholism.

Yet I am not an alcoholic because I do not ruin other peoples lives? cause that would just be easy money, I self destruct when drinking but if it came to the point where I was infringing on others lives when drinking I would stop - does that really make me less of an alcoholic?

(best definition of alcoholism comes from Paul Mcgrath's book - drinking to oblivion, or "for the blackout" ) which is not something I have done but something I have experience with ( friend of mine who will slug vodka until he blacks out ) which is not fun, I drink to have a good time and will stay drinkin for days but will try to stay awake for as long as possible.

which is worse someone who drinks too fast but will be up in the morning to work or someone who drinks reasonably for 3-4 days straight?

Show Time

Yes but sober last six years.

Cookie_Monster

I'm sure technically like most Irish people I'd fall into the alcoholic category:pac:

That said I've not had a drink now since ANZAC day. 7 Days to go till I can have another, roll on June!

BraziliaNZ

This thread struck a chord with me. I'm prone to getting ruined at the weekends, having a great time, and suffering dearly Mondays and Tuesdays at work because of drink. I'm trying to sort it out now, as it's costing me too much financially, mentally and physically. I don't want to give up completely but I used to be able to have a few and leave it at that but that's just impossible now unless I'm just having a can or two at home.
Other people in my situation will know that it's hard to pinpoint the time in your life where you went from being able to go home after 4 or 5 pints to just wanting more and more until you black out, it's a slippery slope once I get started these days.
I'm reading a book called "Easyway to control alcohol" by Allen Carr, which is really good in changing your attitude towards booze, although I don't agree with all of his opinions.
I don't think I'm an alcoholic, and I don't misbehave when I'm drunk either, it's just the hangovers and ensuing depression and guilt that I can't deal with anymore.

sbsquarepants

I wouldn't class myself as an alcoholic by any stretch, although for a good few years i drank every day to a greater or lesser extent. Sounds very stupid but i didn't actually notice this untill my girlfriend pointed out, about 3 or 4 years into living together, that she had never seen me go a day without a drink! Since then i've cut back hugely. I have no sympathy for addicts of any sort and have no intention of ever being one. With me anyway it had just become a ritual of sorts, every evening have a few beers or whatever and being the glutton that i am, i sometimes forgot to stop!
Addiction is a funny beast, it certainly can control you almost entirely but it doesn't ambush you, there are a million little warning signs along the road which need to be ignored, for it to gain a foothold. This may well be one of them for you OP. Just food for thought!!

Archeron

Great thread OP, this is something I've been thinking about a lot lately.

I dont think I am, but its really interesting to see other peoples opinions and thoughts, and some definite food for thought.

BraziliaNZ

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I have no sympathy for addicts of any sort

You've never been around heroin addicts then? Not everyone has a nice life, heroin and alcohol are sometimes the only escape. Have you never heard the phrase, there but for the grace of God go I?

flutterflye

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

You've never been around heroin addicts then? Not everyone has a nice life, heroin and alcohol are sometimes the only escape. Have you never heard the phrase, there but for the grace of God go I?

I've been around many heroin addicts - tbh most of their lives weren't too bad - no worse than mine.
They unfortunately just got caught up with and trusted the wrong people.

Cokeistan

When I go out I tend to binge drink but it's not a weekly occurrence, maybe once or twice a month! If there was no reason to go out for more than a few weekends then I'd just have a few bottles at home with a few friends and play fifa or something. So no, I wouldn't consider myself an alcoholic

Overflow

You have just described the majority of Irish people.

nicowa

Guill wrote: »

To clarify:

I don't consider it a weekend if I don't have a drink.
I binge drink weekly.
I will drink anything if stuck. (although I do enjoy beers of the world).
I will have a bottle or two of an evening during the week.
I'm one of those people who doesn't feel comfortable at an event without a bottle in my hand, and a few aqlready in the system.
When the sun comes out I immediatly think BBQ! (So we can a have a few beers-and craic).

Overflow wrote: »

You have just described the majority of Irish people.

Jus because it describes a whole load of Irish people doesn't mean it's ok. I've never felt I needed an alcoholic drink in my hand at an event. If I was in that sort of situation where I was really nervous and needed something to put in my hands I'd be just as likely to order an orange juice (more likely even, if I was nervous).

Not since a couple of nights out in college or when I just turned 18 (wouldn't have got into a club before that) have I deliberatly gotten twisted drunk. I didn't like it. I didn't need it. And despite the fact that I'm a lightweight I couldn't afford it - once drunk I could keep drinking for a good while.

I've been to concerts, gigs, weddings and birthday parties and not felt the need to drink, I prefer to be dancing being honest! The only times I do are when I go home for the weekend and have a drink in the pub with my parents (no ice in this pub, and trying to keep up with them for the first few).

We've a 16 yr old in the house and we're letting him taste everything we have. From whiskeys to cider (he only likes the Bulmers Spiced Apple and Honey and would probably like the regular if we bought it) and wine. But at the same time we always telling him to remain in control of when and what he drinks. He doesn't go out with his friends but come college that might change and we want him to have the headspace to be able to say no, when he wants to say no. And we want him to see that alcohol is not a thing to be abused. That you can have a few drinks and enjoy it, but not let it control you, not let it get out of hand.

That's something we really need in this country, for every parent to educate their child on alcohol. Before they start drinking. And for every adult who says "that's Ireland for you" or similiar, there is a child getting twisted out of their head on drink and hurting themselves (accidentally) or getting hurt. So stop saying it, change it.

K.Flyer

Great thread OP and even better seeing so much honesty from people.
It strikes me that so many people do not fully understand Alcoholism and what it brings to peoples lives. Hopefully more people will learn from the thread and take a look at how alcohol really is affecting them and those around them.
I feel that its about time that we as a nation change our attitude towards drinking and stop wearing our reputation as a nation of heavy drinkers like a badge of honour.
For those who are worried for themselves or someone they know there is great support, help and advice available out there (and maybe here as well).

BraziliaNZ

K.Flyer wrote: »

stop wearing our reputation as a nation of heavy drinkers like a badge of honour

Who does this though? I think this is a myth.

K.Flyer

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

K.Flyer wrote: »

stop wearing our reputation as a nation of heavy drinkers like a badge of honour

Who does this though? I think this is a myth.

From what I have seen over many years is that there is a certain type of drinker whose sole intention when it comes to having a drink be it here or abroad is to get locked as if they have something to prove to someone. Its usually from late teens through to late twenties.
I have heard them bragging along the lines of "...I'm goin to get locked... sure I'm Irish, thats what we do."
Sorry its not a myth, its what I have seen and heard.

sbsquarepants

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

You've never been around heroin addicts then? Not everyone has a nice life, heroin and alcohol are sometimes the only escape. Have you never heard the phrase, there but for the grace of God go I?

I've been around plenty of them, enough to know i have no sympathy for them. It's not there but for the grace of god at all, it's there but for my own actions. Addicts have themselves to blame, whatever their addiction.

Madam

K.Flyer wrote: »

. Its usually from late teens through to late twenties. I have heard them bragging along the lines of "...I'm goin to get locked... sure I'm Irish, thats what we do."
.

You could say the same thing about the Scots, English and to a lesser extent the Welsh.

I do believe there are people who 'handle' their addictions - they keep it for weekends usually - social alcoholics I like to call them. I'd imagine(in fact I know)a true addict will take their drug of choice whenever(early morning or as soon as the pub/shops open - when the likes of you and I wouldn't dream of touching a drink).

mongdesade

By definition I am an alcoholic...I drink most days 3/4 pints & at the weekends could easily polish of a crate

It does not affect my life in any way re., work, social, home etc.

I am apparently a highly functioning alcoholic, I suppose it will affect my health in the long term, but I accept the repercussions of my actions.

PS I also brew my own beer

omgitsthelazor

Guill wrote: »

For the second time is this thread I will say it. Where am I coming accross as proud??? All i have doen is layed the facts out as I see them at the moment.

Why else did you make the thread? Why were you feeling surprised and confused that your friends acted uncomfortably when you told them, you even added a poll in the expectation of the assurance that your condition is more normal and acceptable than they believe.
I don't mean you have pride in alcoholism but you certainly have pride in your personal acceptance of alcoholism. Which I think is sad.

IrishAm

Great thread.

Question,

Can people easily stop drinking after six beers, or do you want more and more?

Once I hit the six pint mark, I just want more booze. Work at 7am the next day? Fook it. Lets go to a club.

omgitsthelazor

In terms of the poll I'm a very casual drinker and often go months without drink. I'm a college student and know more students who don't drink than do, it is a very optional and very small part of my social life.
I don't have any stigma or disapproval against drinking however I do like to be able to drive home, do like not having morning hangovers and most certainly like not appearing goon faced in facebook photos.

I'm open minded and believe each to their own with regards people who allow alcohol play a defining role in their life. However those who thinks its part of "being Irish" or that everyone is into that sort of thing I personally find an embarrassment.

sbsquarepants

IrishAm wrote: »

Great thread.

Question,

Can people easily stop drinking after six beers, or do you want more and more?

Once I hit the six pint mark, I just want more booze. Work at 7am the next day? Fook it. Lets go to a club.

That's me!
Always hated to see a good night end, even if it had been going for 2 or 3 days:D

Duggy747

It's not a chill-out weekend for me unless I have beer. Myself and the gf don't get to go out much weekends these days so I buy a pack of beer and relax at the house not doing a damn thing for 2 days.

Sick of going out anyways.

Northclare

In my opinion social drinkers and non drinkers are much more attractive looking than the heavy drinkers and alcoholics.

LOL copious quantities of good old John BarleyCorn is a great way to go from looking like a ripe plum to resembling a dried up aul prune :'(

danslevent

ascanbe wrote: »

http://www.theonion.com/articles/im-like-a-chocoholic-but-for-booze,10739/

This article was kind of shocking in it's casual treatment towards the fact that he is an alcoholic, also how he drives while having drank as well. It captured the casual Irish attitude towards alcohol abuse. I couldn't imagine living that kind of life, where every day is just non stop thoughts of booze and it punctuating every aspect of your daily life.

This article made me sad.

danslevent

flutterflye wrote: »

So can smoking, and that is not a disease.
Yes, it fcuks with your brain, but so do alot of things.
It is an addiction, a dependency, an illness even, but it is not a diease, and I don't care who says it is - it just isn't!!

Completely agree. Especially with everything chuck_stone was saying as well. I wouldn't consider it a disease either, it seems more so a lack of will power. Especially when you see people rebounding, so they were cured of the "disease" for however long but then willpower failed and they got the disease again. Maybe I have just become hardened, unsympathetic and bitter towards alcoholism from being in close quarters with it but I really see it more so as a form of weakness than a disease. It is a terrible affliction, but one that can be rid of with some self restraint and concious effort.

gizmo555

danslevent wrote: »

This article was kind of shocking . . . This article made me sad.

:rolleyes: You do know it's satirical, don't you?

BraziliaNZ

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I've been around plenty of them, enough to know i have no sympathy for them. It's not there but for the grace of god at all, it's there but for my own actions. Addicts have themselves to blame, whatever their addiction.

I'm not going to bother debating this with you I'm just glad I'm not related to you or would ever need your help

Shryke

Fair play OP for saying anything. Don't mind the people trying to take strips out of you for admitting something. What you choose to do with what you know is up to you and that's further down the line.
Most people, including your friends won't/don't want to look at things with a clear head and would rather swamp a few pints than stay glued to reality 24/7 without taking a good look at how it effects them and those around them.
It's not a good idea to carry on drinking excessively. That only goes one way. It doesn't turn out too well in the end.
Get pissed by all means but like everything else in life you have to choose your battles/piss ups, time and a place for things.

Hank Scorpio

I can admit I drink far too much have built up a pretty high tolerance by now, although If I dont drink for a while that tolerance will slip. I`ll go to the off licence and buy 9 or 10 cans of lager and drink them off over a 7/8 hour period and wake up feeling horrible, rince and repeat.

The problem I used to have is when I did quit for say a month I'd say to myself I have everything under control and buy booze cause there's a big match on tv for whatever, any random excuse, wake up the next day hungover and need a cure and the cycle just started again.

Gladly I've cut that out in 2012 and made an effort to do so, I identified a problem and knew I was fooling myself, I still drink but no where near as often as I did. The problem for most people struggling with booze is needing a cure to remove the hangover, but that cure often leads to another hangover in turn. Get through the day hungover and the next day your grand again and for me there isn't any urge to drink.

My heavy drinking more or less started in college, my friends were the exact same which made me think it was ok, we'd drink 5 times a week most weeks. I guess old habits die hard, alcohol is a terrible depressent, the initial high of drinking removes that, but once it beings to withdraw you just feel like utter poo! The more you drink the more depressed you get... Give it up for a few days to anyone whos drinking every night, those days will turn into a couple of weeks and you`ll feel amazing

Feisar

realies wrote: »

Anybody wondering if they have or are a problem/abusive drinker should give themselves a 30 day abstinence trial, No excuses buts or ifs See can you & how you feel after that

I done this, New Years Day to till my birthday in march just gone. I didn't have a problem with it at all but I really didn't like going to the pub/club on a Saturday night. I don't think it's a social crutch for me though, i'm a fairly confident chatty person. No problem bantering away with people during the daytime in a coffee shop or whatever.

Feisar

omgitsthelazor wrote: »

I'm open minded and believe each to their own with regards people who allow alcohol play a defining role in their life. However those who thinks its part of "being Irish" or that everyone is into that sort of thing I personally find an embarrassment.

That whole, "sure we're Irish" is the one of the most cringe worthy things going.

Ruralyoke

I had to give up for two weeks once (medication). To be brutally honest, I felt worse. Seriously.

Not being facetious or flippant but sometimes beer feels almost like fuel for me. I'm sure that's not a good thing.

fishy fishy

grindle wrote: »

I'm not an alcoholic, but I qualify by American standards, or by the AA check-list.
Can go months without it, choose not to, because I don't let it destroy me.
Drinking to be merry, or to elucidate, is very different to alcohol-as-medication.

isn't the american standard that if you had one beer....ever....you are an alcoholic.

fishy fishy

livinsane wrote: »

If you have a happy life and the people around you are happy, then I wouldn't class your lifestyle as being a disorder.

To be fair, alcoholism is a horrible thing to have to live with. It makes the person themselves, and the people around them, miserable. It goes deeper than just the drink itself. You've got the cover ups, lies, hiding drink, going without food and other necessities just to drink and all that other nasty stuff.

If you felt that your drinking was hurting your family, friends or professional life, would you cut down?

did you ever hear of a functioning alcoholic??

haminka

I rarely ever drink, maybe two units per week, no more. I hate that it makes me a different person from when I'm sober and I can have fun without being drunk. I've been drunk twice in my life and even though I never had a black-out and remember everything I didn't like the fact that I had very little control over my actions while being fully aware of it.
And the morning afterwards, sick and having a headache. No more, thank you. I don't understand people who drink to get drunk and can't imagine why someone says they can't have fun without alcohol. If it changes your personality and excessive drinking always does, it's influencing your private life. I would hate it if my partner drank, fortunately he's got a similar attitude and rarely ever drinks.

sbsquarepants

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

I'm not going to bother debating this with you I'm just glad I'm not related to you or would ever need your help

If you were related to me, and you were an addict, i would do whatever i could do to help you. What i would not do is pat you on the head and say "there, there, it's not your fault, you have a disease"
If you are an addict, it's your own fault, don't blame anyone else. That's all im saying. We are all responsible for the things we do. I am, you are and so are the millions of people addicted to drugs, alcohol, gambling and so on.