Sinn Fein appealing to the lowest common denominator

smash

fishy fishy wrote: »

your post is quite naive to say the least.

if that's your opinion then I don't think you understand the meaning of naive.

fishy fishy

Hootanany wrote: »

Their area was occupied would you just roll over if some people took over your area.

ya, seems like Ireland rolls over for any tom dick or merkel. you have FG Labour spouting before they got in that they would not put one more penny into the bank bailing - you have the FF/PD a*se licking zarkozeeeeeeeeeee and merkel. And what do ya know, there goes FG and Labour going down the same route.

Maybe they WANT Ireland to be occupied - they're going about it the right way anyway.

Won't be long now until people start demanding the SF get our country back for us. :D

fishy fishy

summerskin wrote: »

My father in law was both. Never felt the need to murder children and pensioners though. Funny that.

who did he support?

fishy fishy

summerskin wrote: »

Growing up in an Irish catholic family in England I grew up wanting a united Ireland, which got me into much trouble at school etc.

As I've got older I realise that what Ireland needs is not to be united, as most of the nordies want to stay British for whatever reason, and with the prejudices i have encountered from many of them I'd rather they were neither British nor Irish.

What Ireland needs is a separate county or three, or even a country, for all the shinners and all those republicans in the north who want a republic so dearly that they can't be arsed moving 30 miles down the road as it means they'd lose the NHS and their other benefits.

Then the rest of the country could get on with life without all the bull**** sprouted by students etc who have "bobby sands" in their usernames but weren't even born in the 80s and now see themselves as "activists" and then prance around in man united shirts.

Still, at least the IRA bomb in Manchester resulted in us getting a decent city centre at last....

and there's the post the explains that you have not got an idea of what you are talking about - knew it would come sometime.

fishy fishy

smash wrote: »

if that's your opinion then I don't think you understand the meaning of naive.

oh, I do smash, I certainly do.

Mallei

I'll vote for Sinn Fein. They seem to be the only party that aren't a bunch of vicious "yes men" for the cronies in the banks, intent on keeping the status quo and screwing the ordinary man. There's a reason the other parties are so vehemently against them - they're terrified that they'll upset the balance and actually do something that's right for Ireland (and not just for the rich) for once.

And there seems to be a huge blurring of the lines in this thread between Sinn Fein (a POLITICAL PARTY) and the IRA (a TERRORIST ORGANISATION). They are separate. There were a lot of IRA sympathisers within Sinn Fein in the North, it's true, but there were a lot of IRA sympathisers throughout Ireland. You can be horrified by some of the actions of the IRA without letting that influence your opinion of the entirely separate entity that is Sinn Fein.

And I just want to make a point on another theme running through this thread (even though it's off-topic): to all those lambasting Sinn Fein and the IRA for their actions, how about you try living in a country where the occupying forces collude with their loyalist brethren to torture, burn, murder and abuse the nationalist populations? The English are an oppressive and occupying force as brutal and subversive in their methods for controlling the North as any conqueror has been before. They just seem to have really good PR, apparently.

Chucky the tree

Mallei wrote: »

I'll vote for Sinn Fein. They seem to be the only party that aren't a bunch of vicious "yes men" for the cronies in the banks, intent on keeping the status quo and screwing the ordinary man. There's a reason the other parties are so vehemently against them - they're terrified that they'll upset the balance and actually do something that's right for Ireland (and not just for the rich) for once.

And there seems to be a huge blurring of the lines in this thread between Sinn Fein (a POLITICAL PARTY) and the IRA (a TERRORIST ORGANISATION). They are separate. There were a lot of IRA sympathisers within Sinn Fein in the North, it's true, but there were a lot of IRA sympathisers throughout Ireland. You can be horrified by some of the actions of the IRA without letting that influence your opinion of the entirely separate entity that is Sinn Fein.

And I just want to make a point on another theme running through this thread (even though it's off-topic): to all those lambasting Sinn Fein and the IRA for their actions, how about you try living in a country where the occupying forces collude with their loyalist brethren to torture, burn, murder and abuse the nationalist populations? The English are an oppressive and occupying force as brutal and subversive in their methods for controlling the North as any conqueror has been before. They just seem to have really good PR, apparently.

lol, Martin McGuinnes was a bit more than a sympathiser.

Mallei

Chucky the tree wrote: »

lol, Martin McGuinnes was a bit more than a sympathiser.

And the fact that Martin McGuinness fought for the freedom of his homeland is supposed to somehow make me respect him less?

Bizzare.

Ruralyoke

Lowest common denominator? Of course. Cynical liars is closer.

"SF for jobs" what jobs? where? how?

"No to education cuts" almost laughable as SF in NI approves cuts of 4 billion :rolleyes:

"SF will save the Louth hospital" one of the worst, & Adams ticket to a poll topping result.

Just exactly how in the fúck is SF or Adams going to do ANYTHING about the Louth hospital in Dundalk? Oh that's right, they can't, they were lying.

Bunch of chancers and their supporters are worse.

MagicSean

Mallei wrote: »

Chucky the tree wrote: »

lol, Martin McGuinnes was a bit more than a sympathiser.

And the fact that Martin McGuinness fought for the freedom of his homeland is supposed to somehow make me respect him less?

Bizzare.

Your main point was that they were separate. Now you seem to accept they aren't. So you were just lying in your first post?

Chucky the tree

Mallei wrote: »

And the fact that Martin McGuinness fought for the freedom of his homeland is supposed to somehow make me respect him less?

Bizzare.

What's bizarre is you claiming that all Sinn Fein and the IRA have in common is a few IRA "sympathisers". Martin McGuinnes was a member of the IRA, he was not just a sympathiser. Sinn Fein was the political wing of the IRA.

humanji

Mallei wrote: »

And the fact that Martin McGuinness fought for the freedom of his homeland is supposed to somehow make me respect him less?

Bizzare.

No, it's the being involved in murder that should make you think that maybe, just maybe, he'll do wahtever he can for what HE wants and not what YOU want. You can pretend they're all honourable men, but that's like pretending Bertie won that money on the horses.

You should also realise that FG were all against FF, when they were in opposition. And once in power, their true colours shone through. I can't imagine SF would be any different. And the sad thing is, if they actually stuck to their manifesto, we'd be screwed by their insane, shortsighted plans. We simple lose out whether they're honest or crooks.

smash

fishy fishy wrote: »

oh, I do smash, I certainly do.

Then elaborate. Come on, enlighten me!

fishy fishy

i believe the second largest party in Ireland ( Sinn Fein ) are holding their Ard Fheis this weekend. No wonder the sun is shining so brightly.

I'm sure "talk to joe", "envelope sean" and their sheeple will be having little hissy fits at the thought of it.

:D

fishy fishy

smash wrote: »

Then elaborate. Come on, enlighten me!

re-read your post after reading the facts. That should enlighten you enough. If you are asking me to educate you on the facts, then get off your lazy a*rse and do it yourself. It's this lazy attitude that got you to this naive post in the first place.

Sleepy

I take it as a damning indictment of the public education system that people will vote for a party who's understanding of economics is about as sophisticated as my three year old's attitude to sweets...

This isn't Big Brother, it's not about who you like most (or in the case of Ms Ferris want to shag), it's about the running of an economy. That's the first and foremost responsibility of a government and Sinn Fein aren't just poor on the economy, they repeatedly demonstrate that they have even less understanding of it than the teachers and publicans in the other parties (which is saying something!).

seanmc1980

Scum Fein will never get in power because
1) they will never get a majority
2) nobody will form a coalition with them

I find most of their policies are "pie in the sky" populas sound bites aimed to stir up emotion in the less informed people of society

statements like " burn the bond holder" then what? no access to the markets?
"Kick the IMF out" and how do we bridge the gap of 15bl
"create job" how???
"Tax wealth"
"No jobs cuts in puplic sector"

No real steady solution just ifs and buts to make all the above succeed.

Sully

Biggins wrote: »

Bullshít campaigning v's scare-tactics = who wins?

We don't!

Sinn Fein do both very well.

fishy fishy

seanmc1980 wrote: »

Scum Fein will never get in power because
1) they will never get a majority
2) nobody will form a coalition with them

I find most of their policies are "pie in the sky" populas sound bites aimed to stir up emotion in the less informed people of society

statements like " burn the bond holder" then what? no access to the markets?
"Kick the IMF out" and how do we bridge the gap of 15bl
"create job" how???
"Tax wealth"
"No jobs cuts in puplic sector"

No real steady solution just ifs and buts to make all the above succeed.

as opposed to Germanys solution for Ireland - ensuring that we are in deep sh*t for the decades to come is a solution.

Do you honestly think that ends kenny knows anything of what is going on - he gives out soundbites that somebody told him to say. He's not an expert - he is being told what to say by the experts whose main concern is germany. ends kenna will say whatever he is told to say - he will do so until he gets his pension and lives happily ever after.

and you believe his crap - this is how we got into this mess in the first place, with is sidekick FF.

Will Ireland ever learn I wonder.

Wibbs

I'll pass on the IRA/terrorist stuf because it just goes around in circles, however I'll look at this:

Mallei wrote: »

I'll vote for Sinn Fein. They seem to be the only party that aren't a bunch of vicious "yes men" for the cronies in the banks, intent on keeping the status quo and screwing the ordinary man. There's a reason the other parties are so vehemently against them - they're terrified that they'll upset the balance and actually do something that's right for Ireland (and not just for the rich) for once.

Nothing in that paragraph makes any concrete argument. It's simplistic and emotive rhetoric. I begin to see why the topic's ad appeals to some. Plus while all that's fine and dandy, how does SF say they'll go about all this? They're all about the soundbite and feck all to do with actual real world solutions. The "rich" is but one example. Their definition of "ordinary man" another. The latter is more often non working man, or subsistence working man. Anything approaching the actual average suburban ordinary man or woman paying the vast bulk of the taxes in this country is just as much in their definition of "rich". They essentially want to tax the "middle class" in this country. Makes sense they're the easy ones to go after.

The English are an oppressive and occupying force as brutal and subversive in their methods for controlling the North as any conqueror has been before.

You can't honestly believe that surely? So you'd reckon Ghengis Khan, Pol pot, Stalin, Hitler to name but a tiny few would be less brutal as conquerors than the Brits in this century? Because that is what you're claiming.

Sully

Agricola wrote: »

Well you either have big business parties like FF and FG scaremongering the population into believing we will all die in the ditch if we dont give "confidence" to the investors, or you have SF spouting populist leftie crap about how the elites all hellbent on crippling the country. Parties appeal to their respective demographics with their respective brand of bullshít

What the big business parties are telling you is mostly correct. Some of which is very much bending of the truth.

What the SF party is telling you is absolute bull****, pie in the sky nonsense that makes absolutely no sense at all and has nothing at all to do with what you are being asked to debate.

Zebra3 wrote: »

Did you vote yes to Lisbon for jobs? :rolleyes:

No, he probably voted no to avoid abortion and conception.

On a related note though - well over a thousand jobs created this year. Nearly a decent jobs announcement every day. That can only be positive. Voting No would have put such at risk.

donegal_road

people can whinge and hurl abuse all they want, but the fact is there is no-one in power in Ireland at the moment, and it wouldnt matter who 'gets in' or who gets voted out. It is the equivalent of sit on Daddy's knee and pretend your driving the car.

Wibbs

fishy fishy wrote: »

Do you honestly think that Gerry Adams knows anything of what is going on - he gives out soundbites that somebody told him to say. He's not an expert.

Fixed your post. On the "expert" front they're hardly different. Adams and his party are the kings of the empty soundbite and if you like I'll wheel any number of them out for you as I have before. Though it seems many of their supporters don't even listen to their empty soundbites and instead project what they think SF stand for. Neat trick and a dangerous one if history is anything to go by.

smash

fishy fishy wrote: »

re-read your post after reading the facts. That should enlighten you enough. If you are asking me to educate you on the facts, then get off your lazy a*rse and do it yourself. It's this lazy attitude that got you to this naive post in the first place.

What facts? You're still not convincing me that you understand what Naive means in relation to my opening post about Sinn Fein's underhanded and daft campaigning.

Sleepy

seanmc1980 wrote: »

Scum Fein will never get in power because
1) they will never get a majority
2) nobody will form a coalition with them

This raises an interesting question for me: Since they'll never get near the levers of power (Most other parties wouldn't go into government with them, the ULA will never have enough numbers to matter and even if Fianna Fail were desperate enough to want them in a coallition, I can't see Sinn Fein having them); what do Sinn Fein politicians hope to get out of their actions?

If, as they claim, they're donating the majority of their salaries to the party, you might rule out financial gain (though maybe the expenses help on that front?)...

One might think the motivation is status but is there really that much status involved in being associated (rightly or wrongly) with terrorists, murderers, smugglers, vigilantes and economic illiterates?

Sully

donegal_road wrote: »

people can whinge and hurl abuse all they want, but the fact is there is no-one in power in Ireland at the moment, and it wouldnt matter who 'gets in' or who gets voted out. It is the equivalent of sit on Daddy's knee and pretend your driving the car.

A common misconception / rumour set by the left. Ireland is very much in control. We can do what we want and we set our own laws and policies. At the moment we are in a bailout agreement so its a little different in terms of our economy.

I Heart Internet

I wouldn't sh;t on Sinn Fein if they were on fire. And I certainly won't ever vote for them.

fishy fishy

smash wrote: »

What facts? You're still not convincing me that you understand what Naive means in relation to my opening post about Sinn Fein's underhanded and daft campaigning.

i don't need to convince you.

fishy fishy

Sully wrote: »

A common misconception / rumour set by the left. Ireland is very much in control. We can do what we want and we set our own laws and policies. At the moment we are in a bailout agreement so its a little different in terms of our economy.

you get the prize for the most humorous post on the thread. congratulations.

Wibbs

Sully wrote: »

On a related note though - well over a thousand jobs created this year. Nearly a decent jobs announcement every day. That can only be positive.

Indeed and as I pointed out in another thread Ireland is still one of the most attractive and competitive markets in the world.

"The IMD World Competiveness Yearbook 2011 ranks Ireland 1st in the world for corporate taxes, 1st for business legislation for foreign investors and 1st for the availability of skilled labour. The same report also ranks Ireland 2nd in the world for consumer price inflation, 3rd for direct investment flows inward, 3rd for availability of finance skills, 4th in the world for labour productivity, and 4th for exports of commercial services.

The 2011 IBM Global Location Trends Report highlights that Ireland is ranked 1st in the world for inward investment by quality and value and 2nd globally for the number of inward investment jobs per capita. The World Bank Doing Business Report 2011 ranks Ireland 1st in the Eurozone for ease of doing business.

Ireland is ranked 2nd most attractive country globally for Foreign Direct Investment by the NIB/FDI Intelligence Inward Investment Performance Monitor 2011 while the Ernst and Young Globalisation Index ranks Ireland as the 2nd most globalised economy in the world."


People seem to ignore/forget this and this includes the major parties too. The Shinners if they got in would likely fcuk this up in a big way. After all these are evil corporations making people "rich".

Sleepy

fishy fishy wrote: »

i don't need to convince you.

So if you don't want to convince people of the correctness of your parties views what do you want to do? Point an armalite at them until they agree with you?

linfield

Good ol' Spin Fein.

smash

fishy fishy wrote: »

i don't need to convince you.

No, you do. You see you made a statement and can not back it up or even say why you said it.

Chucky the tree

Sleepy wrote: »

This raises an interesting question for me: Since they'll never get near the levers of power (Most other parties wouldn't go into government with them, the ULA will never have enough numbers to matter and even if Fianna Fail were desperate enough to want them in a coallition, I can't see Sinn Fein having them); what do Sinn Fein politicians hope to get out of their actions?

If, as they claim, they're donating the majority of their salaries to the party, you might rule out financial gain (though maybe the expenses help on that front?)...

One might think the motivation is status but is there really that much status involved in being associated (rightly or wrongly) with terrorists, murderers, smugglers, vigilantes and economic illiterates?

€50k for ink cartridges, you can be sure the expenses are a big help. With his industrial wage + expenses Aengus would make far more as a TD than a teacher which he started out as.

As for motivation, they will continue to move left and someday they might even make it into power which is their aim. I wouldn't be surprised if in better times they got into power, solid economic theories are less important than and not having to worry about covering a €16bn hole will be a massive benefit for them.

Sully

fishy fishy wrote: »

you get the prize for the most humorous post on the thread. congratulations.

I see you are continuing to avoid the points raised and just throwing silly nonsensical remarks instead. Indeed, I see why you support Sinn Fein now.

"Rule no.1. If at all costs, avoid avoid avoid. One simple word. If someone raises a point that you cant come back at, just avoid and pretend it was never said. Or do a Joe Higgins and return the question to the person asking."

fishy fishy

smash wrote: »

No, you do. You see you made a statement and can not back it up or even say why you said it.

smash, I might agree to convince somebody who actually has the correct facts in a post. but if you think I need to waste my precious time trying to convince you (or just have a little argument with you to pass time for you) after reading the naiveté of your post then you are quite mistaken. As i said, learn about the facts and come back to me then. I spent time on my Irish history. I'm not going to pass it on to somebody who shows they have no interest or know nothing about it.

donegal_road

Sully wrote: »

A common misconception / rumour set by the left. Ireland is very much in control. We can do what we want and we set our own laws and policies. At the moment we are in a bailout agreement so its a little different in terms of our economy.

if there is someone in control at the moment, then why are they bailing out un-guaranteed bondholders?

Sully

Chucky the tree wrote: »

€50k for ink cartridges, you can be sure the expenses are a big help. With his industrial wage + expenses Aengus would make far more as a TD than a teacher which he started out as.

As for motivation, they will continue to move left and someday they might even make it into power which is their aim. I wouldn't be surprised if in better times they got into power, solid economic theories are less important than and not having to worry about covering a €16bn hole will be a massive benefit for them.

50k indeed. With Mary Lou justifying the spending like the rest of Sinn Fein because they were communicating with the people and because nobody told them to stop. Crazy stuff. That alone proves they have no economic sense.

Then we come to the whole industrial wage argument to encourage people to vote for Sinn Fein. More bull****. They draw down the FULL wage from the state. Fact. It is complete lies and false to suggest they only take a small wage. These people take down the FULL wage from the state, which comes from YOUR taxes. Add expenses on top of that. Crazy stuff tbh, they milk the system dry big time.

Sully

donegal_road wrote: »

if there is someone in control at the moment, then why are they bailing out un-guaranteed bondholders?

Because they felt it was the best thing to do in terms of getting better deals further down the line. The Promissory Notes have been delayed, interest rates negotiated, funds from the sale of state assets and so on now has a chunk going towards job creation and so on. A lot more to do, but a damn good start in a year for a government with no power.

Ruralyoke

fishy fishy wrote: »

learn about the facts and come back to me then.

Classic.

Straight from the Gerry school of debating, along with other classics such as

"Let's talk about real issues"

(which of course funny enough, he never proceeds to do so when he says that - he just says the words)

OR

"Ok then if you want to have a debate let's have a debate"

(Which again he doesn't back up, he just obviously thinks it sounds grass roots and 'street')

fishy fishy

Sully wrote: »

A common misconception / rumour set by the left.

ok, you seem not to have much time for "the left" as you say.

Ireland is very much in control. are they, How?

We can do what we want and we set our own laws and policies. Can we? Then why haven't we?

At the moment we are in a bailout agreement so its a little different in terms of our economy. How different? We are in an agreement with who? Are they telling us what to do? Are we still "very much in Control? Can we still "do what we want and set our own laws and policies"

If all you say is true, why o why are we in this situation.

smash

fishy fishy wrote: »

smash, I might agree to convince somebody who actually has the correct facts in a post.

Which "Facts" need to be corrected in my op?

fishy fishy wrote: »

but if you think I need to waste my precious time trying to convince you (or just have a little argument with you to pass time for you) after reading the naiveté of your post then you are quite mistaken.

Again, what part is naive?

fishy fishy wrote: »

As i said, learn about the facts and come back to me then.

Again, wtf are you talking about?

fishy fishy wrote: »

I spent time on my Irish history.

Then you should know that the Euro 2012 championship has nothing to do with any referendum.

fishy fishy wrote: »

I'm not going to pass it on to somebody who shows they have no interest or know nothing about it.

I never asked for a history lesson. I asked you to explain yourself, it seems you can't do that.

Sully

fishy fishy wrote: »

If all you say is true, why o why are we in this situation.

What situation exactly are you talking about?

starbelgrade

Sinn Fein Economic Policy Document 2012

1. Tell the IMF / EU to fuck off, thus clearing the sovereign debt.

2. When the money runs out to run the country, revert to plan B.


Plan B;

3. Rob a few banks, get the extortion rackets back on track, start selling drugs & arms again (under the counter, like).

Economic prosperity & sovereignty resumed by 2014.

fishy fishy

listen lads the fact is the SF is on the rise. They are the second biggest party in Ireland now. People have finally copped on and can see what is being done to the country to ensure that the FF/FG have their pockets lined.

I know some of you can't handle it - but tough. Get used to is. Ye' don't seem to bothered about the other party's throwing away everything and making us pay up. maybe ye were part of the gravy train, maybe not.

Its time now for the Shinners to shine - hey, maybe it won't be too bad. Maybe Nelson Mandela will come over to visit Gerry and ye can all climb over each other to shake his hand. :D

Think I might take a weekend trip to Killarney.

Enjoy your buzz words in the meantime and remember if it gets too much ye can "talk to joe".

Sully

fishy fishy wrote: »

listen lads the fact is the SF is on the rise. They are the second biggest party in Ireland now. People have finally copped on and can see what is being done to the country to ensure that the FF/FG have their pockets lined.

I know some of you can't handle it - but tough. Get used to is. Ye' don't seem to bothered about the other party's throwing away everything and making us pay up. That day is over - maybe ye were part of the gravy train, maybe not.

Its time now for the Shinners to shine - hey, maybe it won't be too bad. Maybe Nelson Mandela will come over to visit Gerry and ye can all climb over each other to shake his hand. :D

Think I might take a weekend trip to Killarney.

Enjoy your buzz words in the meantime and remember if it gets too much ye can "talk to joe".

Considering Sinn Fein is the only opposition party, they should be doing far better in the polls. Fianna Fail, a party which has lost most of its support is STILL hot on the heels of Sinn Fein. Shocking stuff that. They have failed to fully capitalize on the governments tough decisions and the Fianna Fail support being so bad.

Just like Sinn Fein you are, running away from the debate when it gets a bit tough to handle.

francois

What is more interesting is the gradual re-alignmement of irish politics into a more traditional left/right wing branches rather than the tweedledum and tweedledumber crap we have been faced with

the_syco

Varied wrote: »

They don't say tax the rich, they say they want a fairer tax system.

If they tax the poor less, where will they get the money to pay the Social Welfare? Not Germany, as they'll be burning anyone that has lent them money it would seem?

=-=

Also, I see FF getting voted back in before SF.

Son Of A Vidic

smash wrote: »

Sinn Fein appealing to the lowest common denominator

And what have FF/FG being doing? Yes that's right, submitting. Our version of change involves the replacement of FF with FG. Yet there is absolutely no difference between either. I don't particularly give a shít about Sinn Fein to be honest. But a pack of dogs would do a better job running the country, than the meek shower of balless fúckwits currently in post.

LordSutch

fishy fishy wrote: »

listen lads the fact is the SF is on the rise. They are the second biggest party in Ireland now. People have finally copped on and can see what is being done to the country to ensure that the FF/FG have their pockets lined.

I know some of you can't handle it - but tough. Get used to is. Ye' don't seem to bothered about the other party's throwing away everything and making us pay up. maybe ye were part of the gravy train, maybe not.

Its time now for the Shinners to shine - hey, maybe it won't be too bad. Maybe Nelson Mandela will come over to visit Gerry and ye can all climb over each other to shake his hand. :D

Dear Lord, can you imagine Gerry Adams or Mary Lou as Taoiseach/Tánaiste

Now there's two scary thoughts 4 starters, it just aint goin to happen, and it wont happen - The prospect is just too scary.