Sinn Fein appealing to the lowest common denominator

Happy Monday

Fenian Army wrote: »

Can I see this evidence please?


If Gerry was interested in cash he could have been a millionaire by now just by suing for defamation

It begs the question as to why he didn't sue.

Gummy Panda

Fenian Army wrote: »

Dudess wrote: »

Ok but they hold huge appeal, for instance, to those delightful youths who rioted for Love Ulster (I'm not a fan of Love Ulster either). I'm not saying all involved with/supportive of SF are yobs, but they do greatly appeal to many yobs.

You don't know what you are talking about.

I prefer Wolfe Tone to you.

BRING BACK WOLFE TONE!

Crooked Jack

Gummy Panda wrote: »

I prefer Wolfe Tone to you.

BRING BACK WOLFE TONE!

Why? So you can accuse him of piking children and pensioners and dismiss his every point and proposal by hysterically crying about how he's a terrorist.

Gummy Panda

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Gummy Panda wrote: »

I prefer Wolfe Tone to you.

BRING BACK WOLFE TONE!

Why? So you can accuse him of piking children and pensioners and dismiss his every point and proposal by hysterically crying about how he's a terrorist.

I don't think you know the Wolfe tone I'm on about

aidan24326

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

and some of the players are only there cause their granny lived next door to someone who worked with someone whos cousin had a pint of guinness once

That's untrue and quite unfair actually.

That may have been true to an extent in the Jack Charlton days but not so much now.

HavingCrack

It's funny how I posted 4 or 5 pages back about how Sinn Fein could gain middle class support and no one replied. Is that because Sinn Fein simply don't care about the middle classes or that they regard anybody above minimum wage jobs as 'rich' as it appears?

I can't think of a single economic reason anyone outside of the 10-15% of voters Sinn Fein currently relies on (the target demographic) would vote for them.

Ruralyoke

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Nothing specific?!?! You obviously didnt even read them. One of them is about an economic paper the party produced in response to the Tory cuts that outlines £1.9bn in savings and revenue without attacking front line services or low income families.
Clearly you're one of these "anti-SF no matter what" people i referred to earlier

What I'm saying is that they will and have made all the right noises, including ill conceived flaky economic proposals.

When it came to the crunch, when the direction of the knife was decided and the precise cuts that were to be implemented were agreed, SF were strangely silent.

The fact is they form part of the stormont government and are currently presiding over cuts that they claim to oppose in the south. In NI they were participants in those same cuts.

Fenian Army

HavingCrack wrote: »

It's funny how I posted 4 or 5 pages back about how Sinn Fein could gain middle class support and no one replied. Is that because Sinn Fein simply don't care about the middle classes or that they regard anybody above minimum wage jobs as 'rich' as it appears?

I can't think of a single economic reason anyone outside of the 10-15% of voters Sinn Fein currently relies on (the target demographic) would vote for them.

SF do have middle class support...

Although how people can define themselves as middle class when they are up to their ears in debt I don't know.

Capt'n Midnight

SF have been anti EU since before we joined, how many EU treaties have they supported in all that time.

At this stage I doubt they even think before deciding to say 'No'

Also you can present any economic policies you like when you know it's very unlikely they will be implimented.


It's no surprise that the opposition is up in the polls, it's midterm in a recession.


can we get funds if we vote NO ?

The answer is yes of course we can. Was on the news that if the next Greek bailout fails then the market rate for loans to them will be in the order of 27.9% (or was it 29.7) Which is more or less game over for any sort of national soverenty unless you try to become self sufficient like Albania.

Crooked Jack

HavingCrack wrote: »

It's funny how I posted 4 or 5 pages back about how Sinn Fein could gain middle class support and no one replied. Is that because Sinn Fein simply don't care about the middle classes or that they regard anybody above minimum wage jobs as 'rich' as it appears?

I can't think of a single economic reason anyone outside of the 10-15% of voters Sinn Fein currently relies on (the target demographic) would vote for them.

Nobody responded because your assertion is ridiculous.
Sinn Fein are a political party, they outline their policies and aims quite clearly on their website, which has been linked to in this thread a number of times already.
If you agree with these policies you vote for them, if you dont, then you dont.
Class does not come into it.

I also find it strange that you say you cant think of a single economic reason to vote for them. Perhaps you should look into their policies on education, health care, social inclusion, equality etc...
Like any other party I would urge you to make a decision on them as a whole, not just on the flavour of the month (or flavour of the last four years as the case may be.)

Crooked Jack

Gummy Panda wrote: »

I don't think you know the Wolfe tone I'm on about

Big redheaded lad from Arklow? Good bowler?

Sergeant

Crooked Jack wrote: »

I also find it strange that you say you cant think of a single economic reason to vote for them. Perhaps you should look into their policies on education, health care, social inclusion, equality etc...

All absolutely lovely, all-inclusive, fair, and filled with good intentions I'm sure. It's the bit about who, why, where, and when we get the money to pay for these policies that cracks in the logic start to appear.

Wibbs

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Class does not come into it.

Yet the demographics of SF's support base do. That's fine BTW, but they're hardly "a middle class" party.

I also find it strange that you say you cant think of a single economic reason to vote for them. Perhaps you should look into their policies on education, health care, social inclusion, equality etc...

This is quite typical of SF thinking(and ULA thinking for that matter). Why is it an issue? Simply because without the money to pay for their policies on education, health care, social inclusion, equality etc, they may as well write their manifesto in klingon.

Crooked Jack

Ruralyoke wrote: »

What I'm saying is that they will and have made all the right noises, including ill conceived flaky economic proposals.

When it came to the crunch, when the direction of the knife was decided and the precise cuts that were to be implemented were agreed, SF were strangely silent.

The fact is they form part of the stormont government and are currently presiding over cuts that they claim to oppose in the south. In NI they were participants in those same cuts.

I dont know what to say to this. You're either a liar or a moron.
You have made several accusations and I've provided you with proof debunking them and now you've just gone right back to the start and began making the same groundless accusations again.
Either back up what you're saying or I wont be engaging with this baseless whinging any more.

Cee-Jay-Cee

LordSutch wrote: »

You do realise that boards.ie is infested with shinners? Expect to be shot down in flames for even suggisting such a thing Smash!

Surely there are no dole scrougers on Boards reading this.....

smash

Fenian Army wrote: »

If Gerry was interested in cash he could have been a millionaire by now just by suing for defamation

This is pretty funny considering himself and McGuinness have decent property portfolios.

Ruralyoke

Crooked Jack wrote: »

You're either a liar or a moron.

Since you're resorting to this tone, I'm out.

You have debunked nothing.

Nothing in my last post is inaccurate however much it may not be to your taste.

Topic closed for me.

Sleepy

Fenian Army wrote: »

SF do have middle class support...

Although how people can define themselves as middle class when they are up to their ears in debt I don't know.

It's largely because the term "working class" has been adopted by those who have never done a days work in their lives.

Crooked Jack

Wibbs wrote: »

Yet the demographics of SF's support base do. That's fine BTW, but they're hardly "a middle class" party.

This is quite typical of SF thinking(and ULA thinking for that matter). Why is it an issue? Simply because without the money to pay for their policies on education, health care, social inclusion, equality etc, they may as well write their manifesto in klingon.

Please point out to me where I said it wasnt an issue. I merely inferred that it wasnt the only issue. Surely you couldnt disagree with that.
Nor did I say they are a middle class party. I said they lay out their policies and people decide if they like them or not. Class does not come into it. Surely you're not arguing, for example, that somebody cant have a strong opinion on a fair minimum wage just because they are well off and it doesnt affect them directly.

Fenian Army

smash wrote: »

This is pretty funny considering himself and McGuinness have decent property portfolios.

So they is in it for the cash then? :rolleyes:

Show Time

Sergeant wrote: »

With the proud drum of rebellion ringing in our ears, and the spirit of the brave soldiers of 1916 in our hearts. Gushing with nationalistic pride as we tell those pesky Germans to take their money and go.

We'll then hit the forests of Wicklow and harvest the money trees, and enjoy a socialist paradise where there are no difficult decisions to be made, no fiscal adjustments, and no greedy capitalists coming in here to the Emerald Isle to exploit our workers and take advantage of our corporation tax rate.

I really cannot wait.

FF FG and Labour have fcuked the country over again and again so why not give SF a chance??

and what was all the 1916 crap about what point were you TRYING(badly) to make?

smash

Fenian Army wrote: »

So they is in it for the cash then? :rolleyes:

Did I say that, or can you just not read?

The point made was "If Gerry was interested in cash he could have been a millionaire by now" and I replied to point out that he probably already is.

Crooked Jack

Ruralyoke wrote: »

Since you're resorting to this tone, I'm out.

You have debunked nothing.

Nothing in my last post is inaccurate however much it may not be to your taste.

Topic closed for me.

And yet you refuse to back it up with any kind of proof.
First you said they approved Tory cuts. I debunked that. Then you said they "didnt make a peep," about cuts. I debunked that. Then you said they made non-specific generalities. I debunked that. Then you gave up on bunking stuff for me to debunk and went back to those groundless accusations.

Way to save face. Run along now.

Sleepy

Show Time wrote: »

FF FG and Labour have fcuked the country over again and again so why not give SF a chance??

Because they'd destroy the economy so badly that the Republic of Ireland would never recover...

Hang on a minute! Maybe that's the gameplan: destroy the country so thoroughly that it has to become Ireland 2.0 to survive the aftermath... I'm not quite figuring out how the Republic's meltdown would lead to a United Ireland but I'm sure one of the party's economic geniuses has that bit worked out already! :P

Fenian Army

smash wrote: »

Did I say that, or can you just not read?

The point made was "If Gerry was interested in cash he could have been a millionaire by now" and I replied to point out that he probably already is.

lol

No he isnt. Have you seen his "property portfolio"? His house? Hardly the stuff of millionaires.

Would be comfortable with a long political career and several well selling books.

Sleepy

smash wrote: »

Did I say that, or can you just not read?

The point made was "If Gerry was interested in cash he could have been a millionaire by now" and I replied to point out that he probably already is.

He's a TD, former member of The Assembly of Northern Ireland and has published quite a few books, some of which have been on best-seller lists. I think it's safe to say the man is more than "probably" a millionaire...

TBH, if he isn't after all he's taken in over the past few decades, is that not a good enough reason to keep him away from high office? Look what happened last time we let someone incapable of managing his own finances into the position!

smash

Fenian Army wrote: »

lol

No he isnt. Have you seen his "property portfolio"? His house? Hardly the stuff of millionaires.

Would be comfortable with a long political career and several well selling books.

Are you taking the piss now? He could move into a mansion if he wanted to but sure then he'd be seen as upper class and we can't have that.

Don't kid yourself thinking the guy is in any way poor or has little money. Sure he even sometimes gets money for doing nothing:

"GERRY ADAMS (Sinn Fein President)
Claims expenses on second home in London despite not taking up Commons seat. Spokesman says Sinn Fein MPs need to be in capital for parliamentary business."
http://www.derbygripe.co.uk/names.htm

Nothingbetter2d

smash wrote: »

Don't kid yourself thinking the guy is in any way poor or has little money. Sure he even sometimes gets money for doing nothing:

he does televised extreme dogging to fund his property empire

Crooked Jack

Sleepy wrote: »

He's a TD, former member of The Assembly of Northern Ireland and has published quite a few books, some of which have been on best-seller lists. I think it's safe to say the man is more than "probably" a millionaire...

TBH, if he isn't after all he's taken in over the past few decades, is that not a good enough reason to keep him away from high office? Look what happened last time we let someone incapable of managing his own finances into the position!

All Sinn Fein members, from the party leader to the guy who drives his car, earn the average industrial wage. Dunno what his income from the books would be but I doubt it runs into the millions

Morlar

Sleepy wrote: »

He's a TD, former member of The Assembly of Northern Ireland and has published quite a few books, some of which have been on best-seller lists. I think it's safe to say the man is more than "probably" a millionaire...

smash wrote: »

.....He could move into a mansion if he wanted to but sure then he'd be seen as upper class and we can't have that.

You seem to have no actual clue about his personal finances. How much revenue he has generated over the years, or, how he disposes/donates any or all of it. Pure speculation.

My guess is if he opened his bank accounts and had 15k total you'd say anyone with that little money is not fit to govern.

If he had much more than that you'd come up with some other invented nonsensical & disingenous criticism.

It's clear that you and the rest of the 'anti-SF' crowd are clutching at straws as you have been for most of this thread.

Sometimes amusingly but more often it's just revealing in terms of the elitist & condescending tone of much of the criticism (which btw tends to be directed not so much at the party but often against caricatures of their supporters).

smash

Morlar wrote: »

It's clear that you and the rest of the 'anti-SF' crowd are clutching at straws as you have been for most of this thread.

Clutching at straws about what? The thread was started to discuss how they target people of a certain demographic and so far the SF supporters have not been able to prove otherwise and instead are the ones bringing it off topic in a very SF manner.

Morlar wrote: »

My guess is if he opened his bank accounts and had 15k total you'd say anyone with that little money is not fit to govern.

Forget the money, I think he's not fit to govern because I feel he doesn't have a grasp of how to actually run a country.

Morlar wrote: »

Sometimes amusingly but more often it's just revealing in terms of the elitist & condescending tone of much of the criticism (which btw tends to be directed not so much at the party but often against caricatures of their supporters).

You're suggesting that people who don't support SF are all Elitist?

K-9

So nearly 400 posts in still no detail on their economic plans, just slogans and populist rhetoric.

Nodin

smash wrote: »

.......

You're suggesting that people who don't support SF are all Elitist?

No, I'd say he's making the point that a number who oppose them - and certainly a few on this thread - are.

Morlar

smash wrote: »

Clutching at straws about what? The thread was started to discuss how they target people of a certain demographic and so far the SF supporters have not been able to prove otherwise and instead are the ones bringing it off topic in a very SF manner.

You and I have a significantly different assessment of this thread.

smash wrote: »

You're suggesting that people who don't support SF are all Elitist?

That's clearly not what I said.

What I said was related to the content of much of the 'anti-SF' posts on this thread.

That is clearly not the same thing as 'ALL People who don't support SF'.

Did you really make the mistake of thinking those two things are exactly and always the same ? Or are you simply disingenous ?

HavingCrack

Fenian Army wrote: »

SF do have middle class support...

Although how people can define themselves as middle class when they are up to their ears in debt I don't know.

What middle class seat have Sinn Fein won? None as far as I am aware.

Social class is about far more than just financial wealth as you well know. Furthermore the term working class has been hijacked by the 'underclass' in Ireland to a large extent.

Crooked Jack wrote: »

Nobody responded because your assertion is ridiculous.
Sinn Fein are a political party, they outline their policies and aims quite clearly on their website, which has been linked to in this thread a number of times already.
If you agree with these policies you vote for them, if you dont, then you dont.
Class does not come into it.

I also find it strange that you say you cant think of a single economic reason to vote for them. Perhaps you should look into their policies on education, health care, social inclusion, equality etc...
Like any other party I would urge you to make a decision on them as a whole, not just on the flavour of the month (or flavour of the last four years as the case may be.)

Where does the money to fund education, health care, social inclusion etc. come from? Oh yes, money. Sinn Fein still haven't explained where the money to fund all this is going to come from apart from sound bites about taxing the 'rich' (anyone above minimum wage level in Sinn Fein speak). Hence it's economics.

smash

Nodin wrote: »

No, I'd say he's making the point that a number who oppose them - and certainly a few on this thread - are.

No, he's making an assumption. And only on the basis that some people are anti-SF.

Morlar

smash wrote: »

No, he's making an assumption. And only on the basis that some people are anti-SF.

You are clearly wrong.

swimming in a sea

Crooked Jack wrote: »

ZZZZZZzzzzzzz.... typical reaction of the anti SF crowd, people who will always be anti-Sinn Fein no matter what they say or do.
Ask a question, Sinn Fein answers it, they dont get the response they wanted so they resort to this tiresome kneecap/bombing/shooting schtick.
How much longer do you think that stuff is going to work for. There is a new generation of voters coming through who are judging parties on their policies and their actions, not the prejudices they were brought up with.
Better change your tune.

They've never answered it, they never answer anything when it comes to economy, if you are an SF supporter maybe you can answer it.

Where would NI get the money to pay for itself without the Westminster handout?????

Nodin

smash wrote: »

No, he's making an assumption. And only on the basis that some people are anti-SF.

Not really, as its a conclusion I came to a number of pages ago, based on posts alone.

Fenian Army

HavingCrack wrote: »

What middle class seat have Sinn Fein won? None as far as I am aware.

Social class is about far more than just financial wealth as you well know. Furthermore the term working class has been hijacked by the 'underclass' in Ireland to a large extent.



Where does the money to fund education, health care, social inclusion etc. come from? Oh yes, money. Sinn Fein still haven't explained where the money to fund all this is going to come from apart from sound bites about taxing the 'rich' (anyone above minimum wage level in Sinn Fein speak). Hence it's economics.

"underclass" says it all :rolleyes:

Must have imagined the SDLP getting hammered in elections so.

conor.hogan.2

Fenian Army wrote: »

"underclass" says it all :rolleyes:

Also the thread title sets the tone, hence why I have not posted in this thread yet.

smash

Morlar wrote: »

You and I have a significantly different assessment of this thread.

then you didn't read the OP properly because I started the thread to discuss how they target certain people of a certain demographic.

Morlar wrote: »

Did you really make the mistake of thinking those two things are exactly and always the same ? Or are you simply disingenous ?

Just trying the same tactics as you SF guys. See how annoying it can be?

the_syco

Varied wrote: »

Again, shouting this absoloute ****e without backing it up is really pointless.

The Americans like stability. If we were to be controlled by a group that has recent ties to a terrorist group that wanted to increase the tax of foreign companies, I'd say a few American based companies such as Intel, HP, IBM, etc, would leave very quickly, putting even more people on the dole. As the rich would be taxed, most of them would leave with above American companies, and SF would have to increase taxes for everyone to survive.

Protestant behind enemy lines wrote: »

Looking to live amongst Protestants though. You know a good area which has a strong population of Protestants?

Look at a few communities along the pale, just outside Dublin, that have "large house" that were owned by the protestant ruling class, and work houses run by protestants who usually had a policy of converting the locals to their religion before feeding them.
But most (99% I'd say0 don't really care about politics up north, as they seem themselves of Southern Irish, and not someone in exile.

guinnessdrinker wrote: »

Don't the current government also want to tax people more?

Yes, and they're admitting to it. SF don't want to tax anyone, wants to tax a large base of workers less, but doesn't really say how they'll tax the rest.

My name is URL wrote: »

Even in 2010, when FF were selling us all down the river, while FG and Labor only huffed & puffed from the sidelines, SF were the only ones to be bothered with coming up with what they seen as an alternative to where we were headed.

FF does something.
FG & Labour; this is bad, but here's a working alternative.
SF; that's bad, here's what you should do, but we won't tell you how this can be actually achieved.

SF had a few good ideas, but they always disappeared when it came to actually explaining how these great ideas could be achieved realistically.

Ghandee wrote: »

May I also remind you that if it were not for Mountbattens relatives, and Govt's occupation of our country his death would not have occurred.

I don't condone his death btw, very much the opposite.

He lived as a warrior, he died as a warrior. Sh|t happens, and then the bomb goes off :pac:

I've said it many times; what SF has done, and continues to do up the North is great, but they can't do the same down here (they do the complete opposite, it seems). I wonder what would happen if the UK & Ireland stopped giving the North millions each year? Would SF's policies still be as effective?

Protestant behind enemy lines wrote: »

The righteous Protestants.

But there's no jobs there. Why else would you be down here in the glorious fatherland (Athartha)?

PC CDROM

smash wrote: »

Clutching at straws about what? The thread was started to discuss how they target people of a certain demographic and so far the SF supporters have not been able to prove otherwise and instead are the ones bringing it off topic in a very SF manner.

wait... political party target desired demographic for political gain? SHOCKER!??


Do you not understand basic politics or something?

Why would people try and "prove otherwise" when what you are saying is correct?

HavingCrack

Fenian Army wrote: »

"underclass" says it all :rolleyes:

Must have imagined the SDLP getting hammered in elections so.

Do you deny there's an 'underclass' in Ireland? Most people would agree there that there is. I know several people I went to school with who've never done a day's work in their lives and live off state benefits.

Ah, so now we come to it. The Northern Irish political landscape is completely different to here as I pointed out in another thread so comparing the SDLP's experiences in Northern Ireland is pointless. I can guarantee Sinn Fein will never be elected in somewhere like Dun Laoghaire in an election any time in the near future.

Crooked Jack

HavingCrack wrote: »

What middle class seat have Sinn Fein won? None as far as I am aware.

Social class is about far more than just financial wealth as you well know. Furthermore the term working class has been hijacked by the 'underclass' in Ireland to a large extent.



Where does the money to fund education, health care, social inclusion etc. come from? Oh yes, money. Sinn Fein still haven't explained where the money to fund all this is going to come from apart from sound bites about taxing the 'rich' (anyone above minimum wage level in Sinn Fein speak). Hence it's economics.

Again. I never said the economy doesnt matter, I said it is not the only issue.

humanji

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

Also the thread title sets the tone, hence why I have not posted in this thread yet.

Wait, then how am I reading this?

Oh, I knew I should have taken the blue pill.

Morlar

smash wrote: »

Just trying the same tactics as you ...

No, you are really not.

smash

PC CDROM wrote: »

wait... political party target desired demographic for political gain? SHOCKER!??

That's all well and good but their desired demographic mostly consists of people from council areas, or who are less educated or are long term unemployed. The point is that they prey on the weak.

PC CDROM wrote: »

Why would people try and "prove otherwise" when what you are saying is correct?

They're denying that it is correct.

swimming in a sea

Crooked Jack wrote: »

There is a new generation of voters coming through who are judging parties on their policies and their actions, not the prejudices they were brought up with.
Better change your tune.

Who are these new generations of SF voters? I've been hearing this for years. SF can't still break 10%, are you now all getting excited by the polls, well there is big difference between polls and elections.
SF to get your election and poll percentage to match you'll have put a voting boot in every methadone clinic and needle exchange in Dublin.