RDP12 Final - Leinster v Ospreys 27/05/12 - KO 4pm - RTE/TG4/S4C

Neil3030

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I guess the World Cup doesn't determine the best national team either...

Well it certainly doesn't determine the best team, since Leinster can't enter :pac:

Fishooks12

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I also get a good lol at this "best team in Europe" lark when describing the HEC winners.

Aye, those Romanian and Spanish club sides would have Leinster for breakfast

Banbridgeman

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I also get a good lol at this "best team in Europe" lark when describing the HEC winners.

Leinster are by far the best team in Europe. Clermont only come close. I was at the HC final and while I was upset I couldn't help but feel privileged to have seen that team play in the flesh

Hippo

Foxtrol wrote: »

Who in your opinion is currently the best team in Europe then?

Honestly, don't get involved, not worth it.

Scioch

Fishooks12 wrote: »

"Welsh rugby once again flying high on the back of incompetent refereeing, nothing new there then."

That's the part of the post I felt was very bitter and uncalled for considering how the Welsh have demolished us internationally over the last year

If you don't think that's bitter fair enough but I do

They lucked a win in the six nations they didnt demolish us by any stretch of the imagination. And You say my post was solely to bitch about the Ospreys ? Bullshít my issue is with Poite, the last bit was a bit tongue in cheek but it wasnt a go at the Ospreys and it wasnt my only point.

Its quite clear the enjoyment you and other posters got out of throwing out the bitterness crap. And its quite clear why, as Hagz said its the only bit of enjoyment your likely to get when your own team gave up the goose early.

shootermacg

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Cronin's time with Connacht made him the player he is today. He wouldn't have gotten half the experience behind Fla at Munster

Cronin is definately one to watch, but make no mistake Best is the best hooker in a green jersey and by a long way!

liammur

Monty Burnz wrote: »

There's nobody with a stronger claim to that title though, is there? What's the point of having the competition I wonder, seeing as it decides nothing in your view...

I guess the World Cup doesn't determine the best national team either... :rolleyes:

Of course they don't. That's why leagues are cherished the world over. The best team ALWAYS wins leagues, but not necessarily cups as chelsea proved.

liammur

Fishooks12 wrote: »

"Welsh rugby once again flying high on the back of incompetent refereeing, nothing new there then."

That's the part of the post I felt was very bitter and uncalled for considering how the Welsh have demolished us internationally over the last year

If you don't think that's bitter fair enough but I do

+1

Neil3030

Today's game really drove home two sorry points for me:

(1) Williams is retiring.

(2) Brad Thorn will waste what will likely be his final peak professional year in Japan.

shootermacg

liammur wrote: »

Of course they don't. That's why leagues are cherished the world over. The best team ALWAYS wins leagues, but not necessarily cups as chelsea proved.

I personally have no idea why we have a last 4 thing going on in the rabo. A league should have the league format.
Teams are doing just enough to make the play-offs, whereas the points should settle it.

Banbridgeman

By the way, Shane Jennings mother has just been diagnosed with cancer again. Fair play to him for stepping up today for his team during what must be a really tough time for him.

Fishooks12

shootermacg wrote: »

I personally have no idea why we have a last 4 thing going on in the rabo. A league should have the league format.
Teams are doing just enough to make the play-offs, whereas the points should settle it.

It's the done thing in rugby though, and to be honest I think the rabo needs to keep the format to create more of a buzz around it

Banbridgeman

liammur wrote: »

Monty Burnz wrote: »

There's nobody with a stronger claim to that title though, is there? What's the point of having the competition I wonder, seeing as it decides nothing in your view...

I guess the World Cup doesn't determine the best national team either... :rolleyes:

Of course they don't. That's why leagues are cherished the world over. The best team ALWAYS wins leagues, but not necessarily cups as chelsea proved.

Leinster were 10points clear of the league. They lost the league through cup format so to use your own theory then Leinster are the best team in europe

thomond2006

Epic, epic game. Even better than Clermont vs Leinster a few weeks ago. Thankfully the quality of rugby made up for Poite's nonsense at scrum time. His decision at the end of first half was shameful, if it's going to be a penalty try then give it earlier for goodness sake.

Both sides were excellent and deserve huge credit. A great game to win and an awful game to lose.

Unfortunately Dom Ryan is the villain, his needless crossing was the turing point. He's a guy with obvious youthful enthusiasm, but it was a fatal error. Leinster could have recycled and gone through 10+ phases before taking a DG or forcing a penalty.

I'm disappointed for Leinster, their efforts this season deserved a double, but I'm happy for Ospreys since they took the brave decision to get rid of their idiot coaches mid-season and appoint an inexperienced coach in Steve Tandy. However Tandy is Ospreys through and through and he has instilled great teamwork and belief in that team. They have so many class young players like Tipuric, Biggar and Beck who will only improve.

Comiserations to Leinster, unfortunately (IMO) this signficantly derails ynour season. But it's good for the league as a whole that the Irish teams don't win it every year.

Also, what a great introduction the playoffs have been, the league would have been dead in April had it still used the league leader system.

Chucky the tree

Foxtrol wrote: »

Who in your opinion is currently the best team in Europe then?

It's not really possible to answer tbh. There's a very fine line between Clermont, Toulouse and Leinster tbh that I don't think can be split really. I certainly don't think a competition which teams won't play every other team is how you would judge it.

Monty Burnz wrote: »

There's nobody with a stronger claim to that title though, is there? What's the point of having the competition I wonder, seeing as it decides nothing in your view...

I guess the World Cup doesn't determine the best national team either... :rolleyes:

lol at all of this anyway. I didn't realise every competition had to decide something, especially as stupid as who the best team in europe is. So what we learnt this season is that Ospreys are the best team in Ireland, Wales and Scotland but Leinster are the best team in Europe. I shouldn't have to explain just how dumb that logic is.

No the world cup doesn't. I suppose you honestly thought Greece were the best team in Europe in 2004. :pac:

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Aye, those Romanian and Spanish club sides would have Leinster for breakfast

What about all those English and French clubs Leinster never played?

Quint2010

A fantastic match won by the better team in the end. Leinster just ran out of gas. People talking about the ref-I think he made bizarre decisions for both teams eg Leinster were haunted not to concede a penalty try at the end of the first half. He just evened it up in the end. Bit surprised Leinster didn't try and go for a long range drop goal from Kearney at the end. Definately within his range. They weren't going to open The Ospreys up with 14 men. Oh well-we will have to make do with the Heineken Cup again..:)

Irlandczyk

liammur wrote: »

Of course they don't. That's why leagues are cherished the world over. The best team ALWAYS wins leagues, but not necessarily cups as chelsea proved.

Ok Liam, Ospreys are the best team in the world. And so underrated. We get it.

Fishooks12

It would be great if Ospreys can get their house in order for the HC next year

Would be great for the tournament if we could have a Welsh region seriously competing again

Neil3030

neilmulvey

BoardsMember wrote: »

I thought ospreys were far better. They somehow failed to score a breakaway try, should have had a penalty try, and seemed to maybe just win the things in the physicality stakes.

A penalty try was never an option because the ball wasnt even getting into the scrum so the ref cant assume that a try is coming, and anyway, the Leinster scrum wasnt going backwards.

Both sin-binnings were wrong. TV pictures on both show the Ospreys player with his hand on the ground. Bizarre decisions. Deciding a league in this manner is wrong.

The playoffs should be for the Rabo Cup (or whatever the sponsor is), with the final league standings deciding the league winner.

Whatever ever about who was the better team, Leinster were 9 points up after 72 minutes and a dreadful decision by a referee has effectively cost Leinster the game.

Fishooks12

Chucky the tree wrote: »

It's not really possible to answer tbh. There's a very fine line between Clermont, Toulouse and Leinster tbh

There's not really. Leinster bet Clermont in their own back garden. Had that game been on in the Aviva I doubt Clermont would have been able to return the favor. Toulouse were beaten by a medicore Edinburgh side so how do they even enter the equation? Leinster bet them last year anyway for good measure

lol at all of this anyway. I didn't realise every competition had to decide something, especially as stupid as who the best team in europe is. So what we learnt this season is that Ospreys are the best team in Ireland, Wales and Scotland but Leinster are the best team in Europe. I shouldn't have to explain just how dumb that logic is.

Your own logic is flawed. Look at it like this. Leinster have one the biggest competition in NH club rugby 3 out of the last four years. It would be very hard to argue they're not the best club side in Europe right now, impossible actually

I suppose you honestly thought Greece were the best team in Europe in 2004. :pac:

That's a different sport, and Greece didn't win it 3 times out of four

What about all those English and French clubs Leinster never played?

The ones they've beaten on numerous occasions on for the last 4 years? The same ones that failed to qualify from their groups this year to make that possible?

They humiliated Bath this year btw



(this post surely makes up for my lemon gif!)

shootermacg

neilmulvey wrote: »

A penalty try was never an option because the ball wasnt even getting into the scrum so the ref cant assume that a try is coming, and anyway, the Leinster scrum wasnt going backwards.

Both sin-binnings were wrong. TV pictures on both show the Ospreys player with his hand on the ground. Bizarre decisions. Deciding a league in this manner is wrong.

The playoffs should be for the Rabo Cup (or whatever the sponsor is), with the final league standings deciding the league winner.

Whatever ever about who was the better team, Leinster were 9 points up after 72 minutes and a dreadful decision by a referee has effectively cost Leinster the game.

I hate begrudgers! Some of you little kiddies need to get back in your prams, stop spitting your dummys and just say GG and move on! I know it's what a good sport would do.

sock puppet

Crap. That's 3 from 3 finals lost. Great game though and easily the best of the finals so far.

irishbucsfan

liammur wrote: »

Of course they don't. That's why leagues are cherished the world over. The best team ALWAYS wins leagues, but not necessarily cups as chelsea proved.

Leinster won the league by an absolute mile.

Then the Ospreys won the playoffs, which is effectively a cup tacked on to the end of the league.

I'm not saying "Leinster won," I'm just saying that if everyone was satisfied that the champion of a league was always the best team then there would be absolutely no need for a playoff system.

ambid

thomond2006 wrote: »

...Comiserations to Leinster, unfortunately (IMO) this signficantly derails ynour season...

Disagree. Leinster are champions of Europe. Losing today was a shame, but winning the Heineken is more important than anything.

Today was no more than a minor irritation and I love this team!

Tox56

How on earth can anyone argue Leinster aren't the best team in Europe? They've played the best and won more often than they have lost. Clermont are a fantastic team but need to win the big games in Europe like Leinster have to catch up. Toulouse lost 3 times in 7 games this season in the HEC.

Irlandczyk

shootermacg wrote: »

I hate begrudgers! Some of you little kiddies need to get back in your prams, stop spitting your dummys and just say GG and move on! I know it's what a good sport would do.

Oh yes, god forbid someone should post their thoughts in a public forum. We should all just say GG and move on. That would make perfect sense.

Fishooks12

neilmulvey wrote: »

The playoffs should be for the Rabo Cup (or whatever the sponsor is), with the final league standings deciding the league winner.

As Thomond pointed out, the semi final and finals have reinvigorated the league.

Chucky the tree

Fishooks12 wrote: »

There's not really. Leinster bet Clermont in their own back garden. Had that game been on in the Aviva I doubt Clermont would have been able to return the favor. Toulouse were beaten by a medicore Edinburgh side so how do they even enter the equation? Leinster bet them last year anyway for good measure

And Leinster were just beaten by the Ospreys, how does the best team in Europe not even win their domestic competition? Toulouse enter the equations because one off games shouldn't be accounted for. If they are do you really think Edinburgh are a better team than Toulouse?

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Your own logic is flawed. Look at it like this. Leinster have one the biggest competition in NH club rugby 3 out of the last four years. It would be very hard to argue they're not the best club side in Europe right now, impossible actually

It's actually very easy to argue. Leinster can't even win their own domestic competition yet they are the best team in Europe? Flawed logic right there.

Fishooks12 wrote: »

The ones they've beaten on numerous occasions on for the last 4 years? The same ones that failed to qualify from their groups this year to make that possible?

They humiliated Bath this year btw

Numerous? Hardly.

Fishooks12

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Numerous? Hardly.

Seeing as your "logic" seems to have your mind made up on everything else I'll deal with this point

in HC in the last 4 they've beaten:

Quins
Saracens
Saints
Bath
Sale, Tigers and Northampton

Nearly half the premiership (two in finals by the way)

would you consider that "numerous" ?

Clegg

Meh.

Leinster were the best team over the entire season. The league table doesn't lie in that regard. They are the best team in Europe, 3 Heineken Cups in 4 seasons proves that.

The Ospreys are a very good side and dederved to win today. No shame in admitting that.

thomond2006

I would be in favour of what they do in NRL, giving a 'minor premier' to the regular season winners, while awarding a 'premier' to the winners of the playoffs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_NRL_season

Tox56

Last season in the HEC Leinster played 6 teams:

Aviva Premiership champions 2011
Aviva Premiership Runners-Up 2011
Aviva Premiership Semi-Finalists 2011

Top 14 Champions 2011
Top 14 Semi-Finalists 2011
Top 14 Semi-Finalists 2011

And they lost just once all campaign, who is better in Europe than that?

Chucky the tree

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Seeing as your "logic" seems to have your mind made up on everything else I'll deal with this point

in HC in the last 4 they've beaten:

Quins
Saracens
Saints
Bath
Sale, Tigers and Northampton

Nearly half the premiership (two in finals by the way)

would you consider that "numerous" ?

You said numerous occasions. I picked that up as beating teams a number of times, not sure if you meant that or not.

Tox56 wrote: »

Last season in the HEC Leinster played 6 teams:

Aviva Premiership champions 2011
Aviva Premiership Runners-Up 2011
Aviva Premiership Semi-Finalists 2011

Top 14 Champions 2011
Top 14 Semi-Finalists 2011
Top 14 Semi-Finalists 2011

And they lost just once all campaign, who is better in Europe than that?

So if they beat all of those team it means they are better than them?

Quint2010

thomond2006 wrote: »

Comiserations to Leinster, unfortunately (IMO) this signficantly derails ynour season.

Losing a final (by one point) of a playoff in a league that they had won comfortably, a week after possibly the greatest Heineken Cup final performance ever, has hardly "derailed" Leinster's season..

Banbridgeman

It's actually very easy to argue. Leinster can't even win their own domestic competition yet they are the best team in Europe? Flawed logic right there.

So no team that has ever win the HC has been the best team in Europe other than Wasps? As a neutral fan your complete bitterness is ruining the thread. At times I really hate Irish rugby. I've never begrudged an Irish team but I don't expect that from everyone. At the very least be honest though. A lot of Munster fans annoyed that they're now behind Leinster and us in Irish rugby and lashing out!

thomond2006

Quint2010 wrote: »

Losing a final (by one point) of a playoff in a league that they had won comfortably, a week after possibly the greatest Heineken Cup final performance ever, has hardly "derailed" Leinster's season..

hmm maybe a poor choice of words on my part. I would be very disappointed if I was a Leinster fan, the double was so very close.

Fishooks12

I really think an alternative date for the rabo final should be looked into

last years 6 days was madness. It's a bit annoying that as a Munster fan I always have last years league win a bit ruined by the fact that Leinster clearly weren't fresh

Monty Burnz

Chucky the tree wrote: »

And Leinster were just beaten by the Ospreys, how does the best team in Europe not even win their domestic competition? Toulouse enter the equations because one off games shouldn't be accounted for. If they are do you really think Edinburgh are a better team than Toulouse?

One off games, like today? :rolleyes:

Wind your neck in, you are humiliating yourself at this stage tbh.

Aidric

Quint2010 wrote: »

Losing a final (by one point) of a playoff in a league that they had won comfortably, a week after possibly the greatest Heineken Cup final performance ever, has hardly "derailed" Leinster's season..

Ah jaysus, if it isn't bitterness it's hyperbole. This thread has hit the bottom.

neilmulvey

Banbridgeman wrote: »

It's actually very easy to argue. Leinster can't even win their own domestic competition yet they are the best team in Europe? Flawed logic right there.

Leinster lost a one off game after with a record of w18/d1/l3 from 22 in the regular season. They were unbeaten in the HC with a record of w8/d1 from 9 games played.

Not many teams in Europe have a record like that this season.

Clegg

Aidric wrote: »

Ah jaysus, if it isn't bitterness it's hyperbole. This thread has hit the bottom.

Agreed.

Last year was the greatest Heineken Cup final performance ever.

Fishooks12

Clegg wrote: »

Agreed.

Last year was the greatest Heineken Cup final performance ever.

the sheer clinical nature make this years better

last years was better in terms of excitement

Chucky the tree

Banbridgeman wrote: »

So no team that has ever win the HC has been the best team in Europe other than Wasps? As a neutral fan your complete bitterness is ruining the thread. At times I really hate Irish rugby. I've never begrudged an Irish team but I don't expect that from everyone. At the very least be honest though. A lot of Munster fans annoyed that they're now behind Leinster and us in Irish rugby and lashing out!

Possibly, but I think the whole "best team in europe" title is used by droolers and children tbh.

Monty Burnz wrote: »

One off games, like today? :rolleyes:

Wind your neck in, you are humiliating yourself at this stage tbh.

Did I say Ospreys are the best team in Europe, best team in Wales, Scotland, or Ireland or even better then Leinster? No I didn't. The logic seems to be "leinster best team in Europe because they one lots of one games against other teams" When they lose a one-off game "Oh but that doesn't count, should use the league as a better barometer." As for humiliation, see your last post tbh.

Fishooks12

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Possibly, but I think the whole "best team in europe" title is used by droolers and children tbh.





Did I say Ospreys are the best team in Europe, best team in Wales, Scotland, or Ireland or even better then Leinster? No I didn't. The logic seems to be "leinster best team in Europe because they one lots of one games against other teams" When they lose a one-off game "Oh but that doesn't count, should use the league as a better barometer." As for humiliation, see your last post tbh.

must resist urge to use lemon gif............................

Irlandczyk

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Did I say Ospreys are the best team in Europe, best team in Wales, Scotland, or Ireland or even better then Leinster? No I didn't. The logic seems to be "leinster best team in Europe because they one lots of one games against other teams" When they lose a one-off game "Oh but that doesn't count, should use the league as a better barometer." As for humiliation, see your last post tbh.

No Chucky, what you said is that Leinster cannot be the best team in Europe because they can't even win their domestic league, despite having run away with the league on points. Then went on to say that one-off games don't matter...

molloyjh

A lot of people talking about sour grapes here. But can anyone, any single person, explain why White was binned. 9 points ahead with 8 mins to go. That sin-binning was huge in the context of the entire Rabo season. And I have no idea why he was binned. Since coming onto the pitch he was only pinged once AFAIR. I thought that was incredibly harsh. People can point to the potential penalty try in the first half - which can be argued either way - but there was 40 mins left in the game after that. It isn't comparable to a yellow card 8 mins from the end.

Fair play to the Ospreys, they're a class act and for the most part I'd have no complaint. But I can't help feeling incredibly frustrated with that decision that was so costly. The scrum all game was a joke. How a ref who is so well known for being terrible at scrum time can take charge of a final in any tournament beggars belief. It's not like scrums aren't a big part of the game or anything.

I gladly clapped off each member of the Ospreys team and congratulated Ospreys fans after the game, but I don't agree with letting referees off the hook. We have to ask these questions. It's not bitter, it's only right that as paying customers we demand a certain standard. And flipping a coin is not good enough.....

Tox56

If, for example, Quins were to win the HEC next year, I would agree that the 'Best team in Europe' title is probably a bit of a stretch. However, when applied to Leinster this year after 3 in 4, I personally don't think there can be any debate.

Quint2010

thomond2006 wrote: »

hmm maybe a poor choice of words on my part. I would be very disappointed if I was a Leinster fan, the double was so very close.

More like it. Yes was very disappointing. But the way I look at it is that any kind of silverware these days is hard won and puts into context Leinster's achievement of winning 3 Heineken Cups in 4 years. It was a great match today and Leinster just ran out of gas at the end. Hopefully it will drive them on to do the double next season. That is the level of Leinster's aspirations-"doubles".

Monty Burnz

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Did I say Ospreys are the best team in Europe, best team in Wales, Scotland, or Ireland or even better then Leinster? No I didn't. The logic seems to be "leinster best team in Europe because they one lots of one games against other teams" When they lose a one-off game "Oh but that doesn't count, should use the league as a better barometer." As for humiliation, see your last post tbh.

So Leinster won the league itself by a country mile, and beat every European team put in front of it, including the best team in France AWAY FROM HOME in the semi. In addition, you say one-off games don't count.

Then they lose a one-off game and you think this negates winning the league by a mile and beating everyone in Europe, even though one-off games don't count?

Seriously, if there's anyone on the rugby forum who doesn't have you on 'ignore' after this disgraceful series of posts, you should send them a Christmas card. If you ever had any credibility on rugby, it's long, long gone.