Murder trial in Mauritius

hondasam

seamus wrote: »

I can kind of see what would be going through his head - maybe she went to the toilet, maybe she went for a walk, maybe she decided to have a shower, or have a nap.
In his position, I would probably think it odd, but I wouldn't in a million years assume that anything bad had happened and would probably stay put for about 45 minutes before going to check it out. Sounds reasonable to me.

He went to get the biscuits the night before, why not bring them with them in the first place.
I think 45 minutes is way too long considering she just went to get something to have with her tea.
If it was me I would be going daft waiting and losing patience as well.

Seamus, you don't have a shower, nap or go for a walk while your husband/wife is waiting at the table for you. You would come back and tell them your plans. imo

seamus

It depends on what they were doing I suppose. I got the impression that they were chilling out beside the pool, presumably reading or whatever, she ordered some tea and then went up to get biscuits.

So it's not like he was waiting for her, he may even have dozed off himself or simply lost track of time if he was engrossed in a book.

I have in the past sat beside a pool for 30 minutes while my wife "nipped upstairs", and while I was wondering what she was doing, I felt no need to go searching for her. Another 15 minutes, perhaps I would have.

Lollipops23

hondasam wrote: »

He went to get the biscuits the night before, why not bring them with them in the first place.
I think 45 minutes is way too long considering she just went to get something to have with her tea.
If it was me I would be going daft waiting and losing patience as well.

Seamus, you don't have a shower, nap or go for a walk while your husband/wife is waiting at the table for you. You would come back and tell them your plans. imo

Maybe they were keeping the kitkats in the room fridge? I've done that in hot countries- if you keep them in your beach bag they'll melt.

Maybe he was engrossed in a book by the pool, maybe he assumed she was taking a call from home etc It's easily done. I followed my OH into a bar in London in Feb after spending half an hour on the phone to my mother telling her all the stuff we'd seen that day. Nothing major about it.

hondasam

I thought they were having lunch and he was still at the table.



http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=john%20mcareavey%20testimony&source=web&cd=7&ved=0CFUQFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Ftheindependent.mu%2F2012%2F06%2F07%2Fjohn-mcareavey-breaks-down-while-testifying%2F&ei=hPzZT5T9BtK7hAeinYThAw&usg=AFQjCNHBz1bzeUKjN_2JdoczRlRt6QfBDg

This is the first time I have read this.

seamus

hondasam wrote: »

I thought they were having lunch and he was still at the table.

A lot of online sources say that, some other sources say they were "poolside". So it's hard to say unless there are any more accurate sources. Anyone?

Lollipops23

hondasam wrote: »

I thought they were having lunch and he was still at the table.

Initially that's what I thought too, but it seemed more like they were lying poolside and ordering tea. Fairly normal circumstances like.

I don't know why, normally when you hear of someone being murdered everyone suspects the spouse (rightly or wrongly) initially. However, there's never been any talk at all about John McCreavey. From what I've heard of him, it doesn't fit in with his character even remotely.

The revelation of the CCTV is meaningless- A it doesn't look like it's the couple in question and B if it is them, so bloody what?!! all couples row, ESPECIALLY on holiday.

hondasam

seamus wrote: »

A lot of online sources say that, some other sources say they were "poolside". So it's hard to say unless there are any more accurate sources. Anyone?

''Mr McAreavey described how he and his wife had lunch by a pool before she left him to make the short trip back to their room to get biscuits.
He said he had offered to go but, because he had done so for her the night before, she told him it was okay.
“I assume she didn’t want me running round the whole time but I obviously wish she had let me go to the room,” he said.
Around 45 minutes later, having asked a bellboy to let him into his room, he told the court how he walked in to see his wife floating in the bath as cold water poured from the tap.''

From the link I posted earlier. she should have been 5 minutes gone.


http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=murder%20trial%20mauritius%20john%20mccreavy%20on%20stand&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CFMQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.broadsheet.ie%2F2012%2F06%2F14%2Ffootage-allowed-in-trial%2F&ei=WwraT7C5LYuLhQfu_eXKAw&usg=AFQjCNHXepUs9NW6MgwA13g0QpE0dLMzRQ

I think it is them in the cctv.

seamus

hondasam wrote: »

I think it is them in the cctv.

Impossible to tell from the still IMO. Mauritius is rammed with young European holidaymakers. It could quite literally be any couple in that shot.

Although I gather that the footage was somehow on Youtube up till a short while ago, did you see that?

ScumLord

SkatesOn wrote: »

I believe 2:40-2:45 was the approximate time the cleaners were in the room (as per their swipe cards),

Well if she's confirmed dead at 2:45 the cameras timestamp is wrong or it can't be them in the video.

hondasam

seamus wrote: »

Impossible to tell from the still IMO. Mauritius is rammed with young European holidaymakers. It could quite literally be any couple in that shot.

Although I gather that the footage was somehow on Youtube up till a short while ago, did you see that?

No never thought to look for it on Youtube.

http://www.thejournal.ie/john-mcareavey-breaks-down-as-he-testifies-in-michaela-murder-trial-476893-Jun2012/

I dunno what to think tbh. They probably had an argument but it's not unusual. If he bought tampons where are they?

later12

Lollipops23 wrote: »

The revelation of the CCTV is meaningless- A it doesn't look like it's the couple in question and B if it is them, so bloody what?!! all couples row, ESPECIALLY on holiday.

Absolutely. I'm sure if any of us had the last 35 minutes of our lives recorded on CCTV today, many of us would have said or done something that could very easily be taken way out of context.

This was a normal, human relationship. It's not The bloody Bold & The Beautiful. If John and Michaela McAreevy quarreled in the half-hour leading up to the latter's death, I feel sorry for John McAreevy that that's how it ended between him and his wife, but I don't find it remotely surprising given that they were a normal couple in a normal relationship. This is real life; couples fight.

DeeMitch

I think he did go to look for her after 15 minutes, knocked on the room door but got no reply. So he had to go from there to reception to ask one of the hotel staff to let him into the room. To and from reception, dealing with staff probably accounts for a further 15/20 minutes.

It looks like him on CCTV footage but I presume it's not since both families say so. If it is them, the CCTV timer could be inaccurate. As for the row, who hasn't had one. All the heat, expense, time on your hands - I'm amazed anyone goes on holiday for anything longer than a weekend.

Lollipops23

DeeMitch wrote: »

It looks like him on CCTV footage but I presume it's not since both families say so. If it is them, the CCTV timer could be inaccurate. As for the row, who hasn't had one. All the heat, expense, time on your hands - I'm amazed anyone goes on holiday for anything longer than a weekend.

yep, myself and himself nearly tore the heads off each other in Helsinki airport a few months back. had that CCTV been needed in my murder trial, he would certainly be in cuffs right about now.

sawakatoome

I know its part of the defence (and apparently or at least allegedly what happened) .. but whenever I hear that the story is that Michaela returned to her room "to fetch her favourite biscuits", I always wince

Smidge

I'm not taking a stance either way but something doesn't add up to me.

It's a 5star all-inclusive resort, surely if he bought the biscuits they were not Irish goodies(which I know a lot of people do).
So would the hotel not have given them the biscuits with the tea(as is done in most 5 star's let alone an all-inclusive resort)

It was 2.45pm
It was Mauritius
It was their honeymoon and they were drinking tea?

At the pool
Where it would have been very hot?

Something doesn't make sense

hondasam

mishkalucy wrote: »

I'm not taking a stance either way but something doesn't add up to me.

It's a 5star all-inclusive resort, surely if he bought the biscuits they were not Irish goodies(which I know a lot of people do).
So would the hotel not have given them the biscuits with the tea(as is done in most 5 star's let alone an all-inclusive resort)

It was 2.45pm
It was Mauritius
It was their honeymoon and they were drinking tea?

At the pool
Where it would have been very hot?

Something doesn't make sense

I think she was drinking tea, some people love their tea, I would not find this unusual. The biscuits I assumed they brought with them.

dark crystal

mishkalucy wrote: »

I'm not taking a stance either way but something doesn't add up to me.

It's a 5star all-inclusive resort, surely if he bought the biscuits they were not Irish goodies(which I know a lot of people do).
So would the hotel not have given them the biscuits with the tea(as is done in most 5 star's let alone an all-inclusive resort)

It was 2.45pm
It was Mauritius
It was their honeymoon and they were drinking tea?

At the pool
Where it would have been very hot?

Something doesn't make sense

She was a pioneer, so I don't understand what doesn't make sense about her drinking tea on holiday. Being Irish, I would assume she drank tea a lot. The time of day is completely irrelevant - don't many people drink tea or coffee during the afternoon?

Also, it was a Kit-Kat from the mini bar she supposedly went up for - I doubt the Mauritian hotel supplied those for guests with their tea.

hondasam

dark crystal wrote: »

She was a pioneer, so I don't understand what doesn't make sense about her drinking tea on holiday. Being Irish, I would assume she drank tea a lot. The time of day is completely irrelevant - don't many people drink tea or coffee during the afternoon?

Also, it was a Kit-Kat she supposedly went up for - I doubt the Mauritian hotel supplied those for guests.

I think I read where he said it was chocolate cookies.

dark crystal

hondasam wrote: »

I think I read where he said it was chocolate cookies.

Her husband specified that it was a dark chocolate Kit-Kat from the mini bar in the room.

K-9

mishkalucy wrote: »

I'm not taking a stance either way but something doesn't add up to me.

It's a 5star all-inclusive resort, surely if he bought the biscuits they were not Irish goodies(which I know a lot of people do).
So would the hotel not have given them the biscuits with the tea(as is done in most 5 star's let alone an all-inclusive resort)

It was 2.45pm
It was Mauritius
It was their honeymoon and they were drinking tea?

At the pool
Where it would have been very hot?

Something doesn't make sense

Sure they drink tea after curries to quench thirst!

I'd wait before becoming a super sleuth detective myself! This is a defence lawyer grasping at anything to get his client of. All he needs is some doubt in the jury to get his client off.

There's a stretch between casting doubt on the defendants and theories on how the husband did it.

Smidge

I was just curious about those points, no agenda.

I was not aware she was a pioneer but my point about the time of day was that it would have been very hot to drink tea, having been to some very hot places would have loved a cup of tea but it was too hot to drink it.

I would have assumed that they had cookies there, being five star.

I agree with the other posters that it seem's a very long time for a man not to have gone after a woman who was just gone for biscuits. 10 mins would be the absolute longest before my other half would have come looking for me considering it would have probably been a 1-2 minute biscuit run.

I have to keep an open mind on this I'm afraid(with huge sympathy for her folks) as there are a lot of inaccuracies on both sides imo

Smidge

K-9 wrote: »

Sure they drink tea after curries to quench thirst!

I'd wait before becoming a super sleuth detective myself! This is a defence lawyer grasping at anything to get his client of. All he needs is some doubt in the jury to get his client off.

There's a stretch between casting doubt on the defendants and theories on how the husband did it.

You mean people who are native to place like India etc drink tea after curries?
I was not sleuthing but curious.

hondasam

dark crystal wrote: »

Her husband specified that it was a dark chocolate Kit-Kat from the mini bar in the room.

http://www.thejournal.ie/john-mcareavey-breaks-down-as-he-testifies-in-michaela-murder-trial-476893-Jun2012/

“She immediately went to the room to retrieve chocolate cookies, of which she was fond,” McAreavey recalled, specifying they were dark Kit Kats which they kept in the minibar of the room''

.

So he did, dunno what these are btw.

dark crystal

DeeMitch wrote: »

It looks like him on CCTV footage but I presume it's not since both families say so. If it is them, the CCTV timer could be inaccurate. As for the row, who hasn't had one. All the heat, expense, time on your hands - I'm amazed anyone goes on holiday for anything longer than a weekend.

Sure the woman in the still is wearing a bikini - Would be fairly easy to verify if Michaela had the same one or not.

K-9

mishkalucy wrote: »

You mean people who are native to place like India etc drink tea after curries?
I was not sleuthing but curious.

Apparently so, hence tea being popular in India and China. Plus us Irish do love our tea, as well as our alcohol!

Ach I know, you are just asking questions, but I'm waiting to see what the evidence is first! Not a fan of the McCanns so I'm with you on the questioning!

up for anything

I'm surprised that neither side have brought up (or at least not that I know of) whether this hotel had a reputation for petty larceny from the guest rooms. Surely a 5* hotel would come down heavy on staff that stole from guests. Nothing has been said about stuff going missing from rooms prior to the murder. Why would 2/3 people be involved in rummaging in a room to see whether there was anything of value there? One person could do it on their own easily and more inconspicuously.

dark crystal

mishkalucy wrote: »

You mean people who are native to place like India etc drink tea after curries?
I was not sleuthing but curious.

Out of the top 10 biggest tea consuming countries in the world, 8 of them are nations with very hot climates:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tea_consumption_per_capita

Although I feel we've gone slightly off-topic here....

Smidge

K-9 wrote: »

Apparently so, hence tea being popular in India and China. Plus us Irish do love our tea, as well as our alcohol!

Ach I know, you are just asking questions, but I'm waiting to see what the evidence is first! Not a fan of the McCanns so I'm with you on the questioning!

I think what I found strange about it too was the lack of evidence for either side! As I said already, a lot of inaccuracies.

The folks in India don't drink tea the same way we do(for the smarty pants out there, yes I know they use their mouths:D)
They don't usually have it after food esp hot curries, would defeat the purpose of the curry.
Couldn't resist that tidbit from when I was there:o

Smidge

dark crystal wrote: »

Out of the top 10 biggest tea consuming countries in the world, 8 of them are nations with very hot climates:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tea_consumption_per_capita

Although I feel we've gone slightly off-topic here....

No intention to bring off topic, someone brought it up, I replied.
I am quite aware that it is drank in hot countries thanks;)

dark crystal

mishkalucy wrote: »

No intention to bring off topic, someone brought it up, I replied.
I am quite aware that it is drank in hot countries thanks;)

Fair enough, I thought you had implied in your original post that you found it strange for someone to be drinking tea in a hot climate during the afternoon.

I was just pointing out that it's very common - no harm, no foul

Smidge

No problem I was just making the point that the people native to that hot country drink tea like that, not in general the tourists.
Given that I wasn't aware that she was tea-total, its fair enough

Smidge

up for anything wrote: »

I'm surprised that neither side have brought up (or at least not that I know of) whether this hotel had a reputation for petty larceny from the guest rooms. Surely a 5* hotel would come down heavy on staff that stole from guests. Nothing has been said about stuff going missing from rooms prior to the murder. Why would 2/3 people be involved in rummaging in a room to see whether there was anything of value there? One person could do it on their own easily and more inconspicuously.

Did it mention anywhere how long the two men in custody have been working for the hotel?
We all know that thefts do go one in hotels everywhere esp luxury ones where the temptation seems even higher for the staff

DeeMitch

I read somewhere that a number of staff were convicted of stealing from an Indian couple staying at the same hotel a few months after Michaela McAreavey's death.

My name is URL

German man says that he is the person on CCTV and that if necessary he'll travel to Mauritius to give evidence.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0617/german-chef-says-he-is-in-mcareavey-cctv-footage.html

Lollipops23

My name is URL wrote: »

German man says that he is the person on CCTV and that if necessary he'll travel to Mauritius to give evidence.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0617/german-chef-says-he-is-in-mcareavey-cctv-footage.html

there ya go, proof that the defence are attempting to pass off ill-researched evidence to smear her husband. Surely even the slightest bit of delving would have shown it wasn't the McCreaveys, so one has to ask if they knew full well the identity of the couple in the footage and put it forward anyway.

Jay D

Was reading that myself earlier, I just hope that they are compitent enough to follow through on this it's beyond an absolute disgrace. Does that solicitor have a conscience?

Shryke

On rte news: And here is the very desk we saw in that cctv footage.

I just want to point out how pants on head poor this reporting is. Money is being spent so a pudgy middle aged man can stands their and show us a desk.
It's awful that someone died but this is farcical.

VEN

My name is URL wrote: »

German man says that he is the person on CCTV and that if necessary he'll travel to Mauritius to give evidence.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0617/german-chef-says-he-is-in-mcareavey-cctv-footage.html

Thank God

Varied

My name is URL wrote: »

German man says that he is the person on CCTV and that if necessary he'll travel to Mauritius to give evidence.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0617/german-chef-says-he-is-in-mcareavey-cctv-footage.html

This is great news.

Can't wait for this **** to end, Jesus I hope people are keeping an eye on John, if I was in that situation I dunno if I could live with myself.

bruschi

mishkalucy wrote: »

I was just curious about those points, no agenda.

I was not aware she was a pioneer but my point about the time of day was that it would have been very hot to drink tea, having been to some very hot places would have loved a cup of tea but it was too hot to drink it.

I would have assumed that they had cookies there, being five star.

I agree with the other posters that it seem's a very long time for a man not to have gone after a woman who was just gone for biscuits. 10 mins would be the absolute longest before my other half would have come looking for me considering it would have probably been a 1-2 minute biscuit run.

I have to keep an open mind on this I'm afraid(with huge sympathy for her folks) as there are a lot of inaccuracies on both sides imo

why would you presume that? in a resort with 4 or 5 restaurants and chalets and rooms that extend nearly a kilometre stretch over the resort. it could easily be a 10/15 minute walk from where they were back to their room. He also had to go back to reception and then go back to the room again, so effectively made 3 trips and within this 45 minute time frame people keep saying is too long.

it wasnt 45 minutes til he thought she is gone too long, it was 45 minutes from when she left, to him going to the room, going to reception and going back to the room and then finding her. its hardly unusual at all.

the defence in this case are just spouting nonsense trying to veer it off in all sorts of directions. they are throwing anything they can at it in the hope something might stick or put doubt in minds. have they actually put forward any credible case that the 2 men they are defending did not enter the room as their key cards show they did? no. they just keep going on about things that have no relevance to their actual defence, but may put doubt in minds of jurors.

Motorist

It's easy to lose sense of time also when you're chilling out at a pool reading a book or whatever. You're on holidays after all.

Absolute botch job by the police. Shameful behaviour by the hotel also as seen from evidence that their security was very uncooperative in giving over the electronic key log. Also I see they have renamed themselves to the Lux Grand Gaube - they probably didn't want the bad marketing of a murder on their grounds by their own staff coming up on google searches.

ArmaniJeanss

Jay D wrote: »

Was reading that myself earlier, I just hope that they are compitent enough to follow through on this it's beyond an absolute disgrace. Does that solicitor have a conscience?

Why would you want a defence solicitor/barrister to have a conscience? Its his/her job to get their client found not guilty by just about any (legal) method possible.

bruschi wrote: »

the defence in this case are just spouting nonsense trying to veer it off in all sorts of directions. they are throwing anything they can at it in the hope something might stick or put doubt in minds. have they actually put forward any credible case that the 2 men they are defending did not enter the room as their key cards show they did? no. they just keep going on about things that have no relevance to their actual defence, but may put doubt in minds of jurors.

Anything which could potentially put doubt in the minds of the jurors is 100% relevant to the defence.

Smidge

bruschi wrote: »

why would you presume that? in a resort with 4 or 5 restaurants and chalets and rooms that extend nearly a kilometre stretch over the resort. it could easily be a 10/15 minute walk from where they were back to their room. He also had to go back to reception and then go back to the room again, so effectively made 3 trips and within this 45 minute time frame people keep saying is too long.

it wasnt 45 minutes til he thought she is gone too long, it was 45 minutes from when she left, to him going to the room, going to reception and going back to the room and then finding her. its hardly unusual at all.

the defence in this case are just spouting nonsense trying to veer it off in all sorts of directions. they are throwing anything they can at it in the hope something might stick or put doubt in minds. have they actually put forward any credible case that the 2 men they are defending did not enter the room as their key cards show they did? no. they just keep going on about things that have no relevance to their actual defence, but may put doubt in minds of jurors.

Did they have just one room key between them?


Is this not defence council's job?

What was also interesting was that there was no DNA from the two defendants found in the hotel room or on the victim? Only DNA from her husband?

Surely after strangulation there would be some hair, fibres, DNA, anything?

I would hate for the wrong person to be convicted in this case, on either side.

Rasheed

Is that not why they put her in the bath, to get rid of evidence? And didn't the police give back her handbag and computer to the husband, things that the lads would most likely touched and throw out the bath two days post the murder?

I don't know, I wouldn't like to see an innocent party to be sent down either, but I have a bad feeling that nobody will be convicted.

bruschi

mishkalucy wrote: »

[/B]



Did they have just one room key between them?


Is this not defence council's job?

What was also interesting was that there was no DNA from the two defendants found in the hotel room or on the victim? Only DNA from her husband?

Surely after strangulation there would be some hair, fibres, DNA, anything?

I would hate for the wrong person to be convicted in this case, on either side.

firstly the 45 minutes is too long, now they should have had 2 key cards? quite often people will leave their second key card in the electrical activation socket to keep the room going with air con. maybe this is why they only brought out one card. or the fact they went out for lunch together. or they misplaced it. who knows why they only had one card. is it relevent?

the defence counsel started going on about a sex book and trying to say that this was a sex act gone wrong. when the 'sex book' was no more than a magazine supplement. they have produced a video of 2 Germans arguing, trying to say it was the MacAreavys. If you really think these are good methods of defence then I dont know.

Lollipops23

mishkalucy wrote: »

[/B]



Did they have just one room key between them?


Is this not defence council's job?

What was also interesting was that there was no DNA from the two defendants found in the hotel room or on the victim? Only DNA from her husband?

Surely after strangulation there would be some hair, fibres, DNA, anything?

I would hate for the wrong person to be convicted in this case, on either side.

Last time I was in a hotel with my OH we misplaced our 2nd keycard on the first day of the holiday, only to find it under some stuff on the last day. It happens. It's certainly not an unlikely scenario.

The murderer (s) put Michaela in a bath of cold water, therefore potentially destroying any fibres/hair evidence.

It is the job of the defence to DEFEND their client, not treat the case like their 15mins of fame and attempt to mudsling and degrade someone completely innocent like John McCreavey.

sunflower27

Was the water left overflowing in the bath?

Just seems very strange that a burgler would hang around to run a bath knowing at any point they could be discovered in there. I'd have thought whoever strangled here would have just left her and legged it.

I'd have thought also that a thorough post mortem of the body and also of the scene would have recovered hair and fibres. Michaela would have struggled and surely there would have been something.

Such an awful, tragic case. God love all her loved ones. This is just horrendous.

fishy fishy

mishkalucy wrote: »

I was just curious about those points, no agenda.

I was not aware she was a pioneer but my point about the time of day was that it would have been very hot to drink tea, having been to some very hot places would have loved a cup of tea but it was too hot to drink it.

I would have assumed that they had cookies there, being five star.

I agree with the other posters that it seem's a very long time for a man not to have gone after a woman who was just gone for biscuits. 10 mins would be the absolute longest before my other half would have come looking for me considering it would have probably been a 1-2 minute biscuit run.

I have to keep an open mind on this I'm afraid(with huge sympathy for her folks) as there are a lot of inaccuracies on both sides imo

tea actually refreshes you in the heat, believe it or not.

also, there is nothing wrong with the timescale - maybe your husband would come after you after a minute, but normally people would be a bit more easy than that, assuming maybe that she was in the bathroom, freshening up etc. :rolleyes:

bbam

I'm just jumping in here after 17 pages of posts but I have a question that niggles me.
Did I read wrong but I thought that the DNA from under her finger nails was from neither defendant nor her husband? Could these clowns just be taking the fall for a third person, maybe someone further up the food chain in the hotel.

maebee

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0712/michaela-mcareavey-jury-expected-to-retire.html