The Chase: 6.2 miles in 35 minutes

DogSlySmile

My 10k PB is currently 38:49 (Sept, 2011), my goal 10k time is 35:00. This means covering the distance with an average pace of 5:37 per mile.

I will be following an 18 week plan set out in the Brain Training Guide for Runners. The plan seems to be pretty similar to what Daniels recommends but the distances and times suggested for the workouts are more specific, which I like.

I was aiming to run a new PB in my local DLR Bay 10k (this is where I set my current PB), but it comes too early in the training plan so I had a look around for races that would suit and came across the Great Pink Run 10k. Seems like the perfect race for what I’m trying to do, it falls right at the end of the training plan and it’s as flat as a pancake so it’s very PB friendly.

I know it’s a big step to shave almost 4 minutes off my 10k PB. The training plan will have me running 6 days a week, which will take a big effort as it coincides with me starting a new job :eek:. It’s going to take some focus and discipline, but I can do it. Here's what the first week looked like:

Base 1: Week 1
Tue, 15 May – 6.25m @ base pace. Time: 47:13. Did this on grass as my legs hadn’t quite recovered from Saturdays race (Dirty Dozen). Just as I was ending my last mile it dawned on me that I should have done a shorter jog instead of rigidly sticking to the schedule.

Thu, 17 May - 6m @ base pace and 2 x strides. Time: 43:56.

Fri, 18 May - 6m @ base pace with 2 X 30 seconds @ 1mile pace. Been a while since I’ve done a hard interval such as this. Wasn’t too bad, in fact I wanted to do a few more. Time: 44:14.

Sat, 19 May – 6.2m @ base pace on grass. Another run on grass. Planning on doing at least a couple of runs a week on grass, just to take it easy on my joints as they used to the increased mileage. Time: 46:14.

Sun, 20 May – 7m @ base pace. Did two big loops of my local area. Started to feel a tightness under my calf about half way through. No amount of stretching would loosen it up. Was still very stiff the next day Time: 51:35.

Total running: 31.7m

Very happy with my first week of this schedule. I missed Wednesdays run as I was out on the beer with college. The runs this week haven’t been hard in any way and the only tricky thing was finding 6-7m loops near my place. Next week will be tougher. I’m starting a new job so will have to fit the runs in where I can. But I feel like I’m off to a good start and looking forward to attacking my goal.

DogSlySmile

Tue, 22 May – 6.5m @ base pace. Calf still very stiff so did this run on grass. I’ve been slathering my calf in deep heat for the last few days but the stiffness wont shift. Time: 48:44

Wed, 23 May – Hill reps. Jogged up to Killiney hill for some hill work. Did a 2 mile warm up at recovery pace. My calf was still giving out but by the end of the warm up it had really loosened up! Good aul recovery pace! After the warm up I did 8 x 30 hill sprints, with 2 minutes of active recovery in between reps. Finished off with a 2 mile warm down at recovery pace. Time: 53:42.

Thu, 24 May – 6.5m @ base pace. Did this on grass. Was a wee bit tired from the hill reps the day before.

Fri, 25 May – Fartlek run. 6.5m @ base pace with 8 x 30 seconds @ 1m pace. My 1m pace is about 5m/m, but found it hard to judge how to run this fast. I often ran faster than 5m/m then tried to slow down to 1m pace before the end of the 30 second interval.

Sat, 26 May - 6.5m @ base pace. Saturday was a really warm day so I ran down to the seafront in Dun Laoghaire to take advantage of the sea breeze. Really enjoyed this run. Running felt really easy and had to consciously slow myself down to base pace.

Sun, 27 May – 8m @ base pace. Took a longer than usual route down to Dun Laoghaire and ran some of the DLR Bay 10k route. Pretty bad idea trying to run through Dun Laoghaire on a sunny day, the place was black!:eek:

Total Running: 40.3m

Total Cycling: 32m

This was an important week as I had to juggle the new running schedule with the first week of my new job. It went fine. I was a little bit more tired than usual so it was a struggle to get myself out the door. But once I was out and running I was fine. On top of that I’m cycling to and from work so that’s an added ~45 minutes of exercise per day. Think I’ll change the order of workouts so I can have a rest day on Friday rather than on Monday.

DogSlySmile

Havent been able to log as much as I would like. I've either been working or running for the last couple of weeks so havent had much computer time. Went for a 7mile run on Monday, the plan says to rest on Monday but I wanted to change the rest day to Fridays. I'd been running for 7 days straight at this point so I took it easy on this run. On Tuesday I was due to run but a sneaky 11 hour shift in work killed any chance of me getting a run in. On Wednesday I had another 11 hour shift but I didnt want to fall too far behind on the schedule so I went out for some hill repeats. Think Killiney hill is too steep for hill repeats but I couldnt think of any other hills near me where I'd have some peace and not have to contend with traffic. Think it was 7.4 miles in total, will confirm at the end of the week.

wrstan

That's some target alright! I'm trying something similar right now although a couple of minutes slower and a less ambitious improvement;)! I'm also very familiar with running up and down Killiney Hill, there's some great hills around there although mostly on the roads. If you're prepared to get into a car for 5 or 10 minutes there are some fab trail runs.

Finally, just a thought on your choice of race: if it is a race that attracts a large number of participants, you could find you loose some valuable time in the first km or so weaving until it thins out, even with wave starts. It might be better to find a smaller club run race that mainly attracts other club members.

Good luck with the programme, I'll follow with interest!

tunguska

DogSlySmile wrote: »

My 10k PB is currently 38:49 (Sept, 2011), my goal 10k time is 35:00. This means covering the distance with an average pace of 5:37 per mile.

I will be following an 18 week plan set out in the Brain Training Guide for Runners. The plan seems to be pretty similar to what Daniels recommends but the distances and times suggested for the workouts are more specific, which I like.

I was aiming to run a new PB in my local DLR Bay 10k (this is where I set my current PB), but it comes too early in the training plan so I had a look around for races that would suit and came across the Great Pink Run 10k. Seems like the perfect race for what I’m trying to do, it falls right at the end of the training plan and it’s as flat as a pancake so it’s very PB friendly.

I know it’s a big step to shave almost 4 minutes off my 10k PB. The training plan will have me running 6 days a week, which will take a big effort as it coincides with me starting a new job :eek:. It’s going to take some focus and discipline, but I can do it. Here's what the first week looked like:

Im using the Brain training book aswell. The paces are very specific alright but personally I think daniels 5 -15k plan is better. Although I did jury rig it a bit to make it more specific. For example, with sessions like 3 x 2 miles at T-pace, I made it 3 x 2 miles at 10k pace(increasing the break).

I dont think going from 38 to 35 mins is ridiculous or anything. cwgatling did exactly that last month. So its well on. I'd re-think the Pink run thing though, its too general population. You're better off sticking to a race organised by a club where you're guaranteed to have a group of lads to work off during the race.

DogSlySmile

wrstan wrote: »

just a thought on your choice of race: if it is a race that attracts a large number of participants, you could find you loose some valuable time in the first km or so weaving until it thins out, even with wave starts. It might be better to find a smaller club run race that mainly attracts other club members.

tunguska wrote: »

I'd re-think the Pink run thing though, its too general population. You're better off sticking to a race organised by a club where you're guaranteed to have a group of lads to work off during the race.

Thanks for the advice lads. I didnt really think of it that way. I really just chose it as it lands right at the end of my training program. But I will keep an eye out for club races around then. Cheers

tunguska wrote: »

Im using the Brain training book aswell. The paces are very specific alright but personally I think daniels 5 -15k plan is better.

How far are you into the program? I'm only 3 weeks in myself so its very hard to judge what effec it will have 15 weeks down the line?

pconn062

tunguska wrote: »

I dont think going from 38 to 35 mins is ridiculous or anything. cwgatling did exactly that last month. So its well on.

Sorry for the hijack DSS!

Just have a quick question for you here tunguska if you don't mind. I had set myself the goal of hitting 35-36 minutes in the next few (2-3) years. Current PB is 39:17. Was just wondering in relation to what you said about cwgatling, is it possible to knock that much time of your PB in less than a few years? I know it depends on what training you do but if you focused on 10k training for a year do you think it is possible to drop from 39 to 36 or so? Does it require a bit of natural talent or just a lot of hard work?

DogSlySmile

pconn062 wrote: »

Sorry for the hijack DSS!

Not at all! Will be interesting so see what people have to say on this

tunguska

DogSlySmile wrote: »

How far are you into the program? I'm only 3 weeks in myself so its very hard to judge what effec it will have 15 weeks down the line?

Im in base building for the dublin marathon at the moment, I did daniels 5 -15k for national 10k in april. Like I said the brain training plan is good aswell, I just prefer daniels with a few modifications. Although for my marathon program ive incorporated a lot of fitzgeralds supplementary work, like proprioceptive cues and drills.

pconn062 wrote: »

Sorry for the hijack DSS!

Just have a quick question for you here tunguska if you don't mind. I had set myself the goal of hitting 35-36 minutes in the next few (2-3) years. Current PB is 39:17. Was just wondering in relation to what you said about cwgatling, is it possible to knock that much time of your PB in less than a few years? I know it depends on what training you do but if you focused on 10k training for a year do you think it is possible to drop from 39 to 36 or so? Does it require a bit of natural talent or just a lot of hard work?

Absolutley. Hard work all the way, Im not a believer in the natural talent myth. I think it holds a lot of people back in that they think you must be naturally gifted to achieve certain times or to progress quickly. Paddy(cwgatling) is a good example, he worked hard and aimed high and got what he was after. Your pb is 39mins right now and I think if you followed a 6 month 10k plan(like daniels or brain training)you'd nail a 35 minute 10k or better at the end of those 6 months. Its all about confidence and what you believe you can achieve. Dont be delicate or modest about it, set your sights high and go after it.
But be specific in your training. If you wanna run a 35:15 for example, thats 5:40/mile. So you gotta train at 5:40/mile. Not 6:00/mile or 5:50, its gotta be at race pace and above.

dna_leri

DogSlySmile wrote: »

My 10k PB is currently 38:49 (Sept, 2011), my goal 10k time is 35:00. This means covering the distance with an average pace of 5:37 per mile.

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Well done on setting an agressive goal and going for it - good luck. Knocking 4 mins off your 10K is possible. Last year I went from 40:30 to 36:30 and hopefully can get to sub 35 when I focus on 10K again.

What is your running background, how many years training, how much progress so far?

jfh

I'm chasing a similiar target, although starting at 36:40. I found my improvement took longer and didn't come in one large chunk.
easy enough to get from 41 to 38, I hovered around 38:30 for ages. even got worse!
then went to 37:30 after a good bit of effort, then hit a few 36:30 min 10km, back again to 37 min and now trying to knock it down again. altough i didn't follow any plan, just ran with a guy who was better than me.
it's very motivating to have a deadline so best of luck i'll be following this tread with interest.
agree with one of the posters who suggested picking a club race so you have someone to pace off. You need someone to fight all the way with!

DogSlySmile

dna_leri wrote: »

Well done on setting an agressive goal and going for it - good luck. Knocking 4 mins off your 10K is possible. Last year I went from 40:30 to 36:30 and hopefully can get to sub 35 when I focus on 10K again.

What is your running background, how many years training, how much progress so far?

Thanks. I started all this running lark in late 2010. In 2011 I did 13 races, mostly a mix of trail races and WAR/ROAR type races. My 10k PB went from 43mins to 38:49 and I set my 10 mile PB of 01:04:47 at the Frank Duffy that year. This year I’ve done 10 races so far, mostly trail and IMRA races. I’ve had some good results and I feel like I’m starting the training program with a good level of base fitness.

It’s very hard to judge how much I’ve progressed 10K-wise so far this year. I haven’t ran a road 10k in anger in quite a while. But I think with the amount of mileage I’m piling up I’ll PB pretty soon as my aerobic ability improves.

Best of luck with going sub 35 man!

DogSlySmile

jfh wrote: »

I'm chasing a similiar target, although starting at 36:40. I found my improvement took longer and didn't come in one large chunk.
easy enough to get from 41 to 38, I hovered around 38:30 for ages. even got worse!
then went to 37:30 after a good bit of effort, then hit a few 36:30 min 10km, back again to 37 min and now trying to knock it down again. altough i didn't follow any plan, just ran with a guy who was better than me.
it's very motivating to have a deadline so best of luck i'll be following this tread with interest.
agree with one of the posters who suggested picking a club race so you have someone to pace off. You need someone to fight all the way with!

Cheers for the advice. I’ve always trained alone but I’m pretty good at keeping myself motivated. I have found that since I started the training program that I’m itching to get out running every day and trying the different workouts Its great to hear the advice of others about reaching similar 10k times. I’m well aware that it might take a long time and I wont be disappointed if I don’t run 34:59 at the end of the training schedule. I will DEFINITELY be disappointed if I don’t set a big PB though!

Yea, it sounds like a club race is the way to go. Never done one though and wouldn’t know where to begin about signing up for one!

tunguska

DogSlySmile wrote: »

It’s very hard to judge how much I’ve progressed 10K-wise so far this year. I haven’t ran a road 10k in anger in quite a while. But I think with the amount of mileage I’m piling up I’ll PB pretty soon as my aerobic ability improves.

Race often and hard. Fitzgerald highlights the need to do this in braintraining. The more you race the more you becoming accustomed to racing and that initself is worth a lot because theres so many people who freeze up in race conditions. Desensitize yourself to racing so that when you hit you're target race it'll be automatic, nothing will distract you or have an adverse effect on your performance. Plus you condition your body to take the pain of racing.

jfh

tunguska wrote: »

Race often and hard. Fitzgerald highlights the need to do this in braintraining. The more you race the more you becoming accustomed to racing and that initself is worth a lot because theres so many people who freeze up in race conditions. Desensitize yourself to racing so that when you hit you're target race it'll be automatic, nothing will distract you or have an adverse effect on your performance. Plus you condition your body to take the pain of racing.

that sounds like a good book, i know a lot of people dont agree with racing often & hard but i raced against a guy who i would consider a better runner, a few weeks ago, we had a head to head dual for the last KM. He picks and chooses his races often months between them, i beat him, he put it down to the fact that i was racing hard frequently. of course, your not going to have a good day every day but you'll get used to the pain!

DogSlySmile

Base: Week 3

Mon, 28 May - 7m @base pace. Time: 53:15

Wed, 30 May - Hill reps. 2m warm up - 12x 45sec at 1mile pace with 2:15 recovery inbetween - 2m warm down. Time: 1:09:48

Fri, 1 Jun - Fartlek. 7m @ base pace with 12x45sec @1mile pace. Again I found it hard to judge 1 mile pace. During these intervals I'd check my garmin and it would say I was doing 5:30ish pace. I was aiming for 5:00 pace but just thought I was too tired to pull it off. Got home and apparantly I was doing about 4:30 pace for the intervals!:eek: No wonder I found them so hard:mad: Time: 48:59

Sat, 2 Jun - 7m @base pace. This was good fun. Lovely weather and I barely even felt like I was trying to keep the pace, it just happened. Time: 48:59

Sun, 3 Jun - 8m @ base pace. Reading the Gerry Duffy book at the minute so I thought I'd give his home-made pre race drink a go. Ingredients 500ml of water, 2 tbs of honey and salt. It was absolutely gank! But this was another good run. Again I didn't feel like I had to try at all, I just glided along. Weather was horrendous though... Is summer over already? Time: 57:03

Total Running: 36.3m

Total Cycling: 40m

Pretty good week. Had no problem increasing the base runs to 7 miles this week. Had to miss one base run due to working late but I managed to fit in all the key sessions. Recovery week on the menu for next week, though I'm not feeling like I need it :cool:
Toenail finally came off, still waiting on the other one! Its just about the only negative to mountain running...

DogSlySmile

Tough aul hill rep sesh last night.

Started with a 2mile warm up @ recovery pace. Then did 12 x 1 minute @ 1 mile pace, with 2 minute active recovery in between. Decided on a gentler hill this time (only about 25 ft of climb from start to finish).

Struggled to hit my mile pace at first, didnt have the best nights rest the night before so I suppose its to be expected. I began to notice that if I lengthened my stride out I was able to get closer to mile pace without adding a lot of effort. That may seem elementary to many people reading this but it was like a revelation to me last night!:D Gonna work on lengthening my stride in tomorrows interval session.

dna_leri

Take care you don't over stride. Ensure your foot is hitting the ground under your center of gravity, ideally not heel striking.

tunguska

dna_leri wrote: »

Take care you don't over stride. Ensure your foot is hitting the ground under your center of gravity, ideally not heel striking.

+1. Most injuries are overstriding related. Better to have a high stride rate and short stride length(stability) than a long stride with low cadence(unstable).
And like Dna leri said, keep your legs undrneath you. A good proprioceptive cue is one from the brain training book: Imagine theres a wall an inch infront of you as you run so that if your stride becomes too long your knees will knock against it.

DogSlySmile

dna_leri wrote: »

Take care you don't over stride. Ensure your foot is hitting the ground under your center of gravity, ideally not heel striking.

tunguska wrote: »

+1. Most injuries are overstriding related. Better to have a high stride rate and short stride length(stability) than a long stride with low cadence(unstable).
And like Dna leri said, keep your legs undrneath you. A good proprioceptive cue is one from the brain training book: Imagine theres a wall an inch infront of you as you run so that if your stride becomes too long your knees will knock against it.

Cheers lads, wasn’t aware of that. I suppose I didn’t notice that during the hill reps as it would be very hard to over stride and land heel-first going uphill! I have intervals planned for tonight so will try and apply what youse recommend tonight. Thanks.

DogSlySmile

DogSlySmile wrote: »

Tough aul hill rep sesh last night.

Thats because you did 6 more intervals than the book said to do. Its a recovery week you idiot!:mad:

DogSlySmile

In hindsight I probably should have curtailed last nights interval sesh as I did far too many hill reps earlier in the week. Really struggled throughout it. Didnt get a chance to work on my stride/cadence as I was dancing around puddles for the entire run Found 5min/mile pace very hard to maintain and it made me think that perhaps I'm doing my intervals at too fast a pace. I'll see how next weeks shorter intervals go before I go changing anything this early into the program.

DogSlySmile

Base: Week 4 (Recovery)

Mon, 4 Jun - 5m @ base pace on grass

Tue, 5 Jun - Hill Reps - 2m warm up - 12X1minute @ 1m pace - warm down. Total 8 miles (did 6 reps too many)

Wed, 6 Jun - 5m @ base pace

Thu, 7 Jun - Fartlek/Intervals - 1.2m warm up, 6x1min intervals @ 1mile pace with 1 lap recovery. 1.2m warm down

Sat, 9 Jun - 5m @ base pace on grass

Sun, 10 Jun - 6m @ base pace

Total Running: 34.5m - Base total: 148.6m

Total Cycling: 32m - Base total: 104m

This was a recovery week so it was mostly handy enough. Did too many intervals on Tuesday but it was still a good session. Thursdays intervals were very tough going for a variety of reasons. Looking forward to the next phase of the training plan (build). Another increase in mileage but looking forward to working on speed.

DogSlySmile

Got down to the track on Tuesday for some intervals. Did a 1.3m warm up then 12 x 400m @ 3k pace - w/1 lap active recovery. Think I may have drastically overestimated what pace I can maintain for 3 kilometers as I was sucking air by the end of each lap. Managed the 12 laps fine but I think the pace was too fast. I will be doing intervals at 10k pace later in the week so I think that session will tell me if I've set the bar higher than I should have.

On Wednesday I went out for a recovery run. Planned on doing 8m @ recovery pace but I was feeling quite drained so I cut it short and ended up only doing 5.5m. I had intervals planned for today (Thursday) but I think a rest day is in order.

wrstan

Howdy DSS
Out of interest, what split times were you nailing the 400's in?
Sounds like a programme I have been following. A mix of 400m, building up from 10X to 16X mixed with a build up to McMillan's 3X 2mile intervals at 10k race pace.
My immediate 10k aspirations are more modest than yours but over 6 weeks they have felt like great sessions. I can let you know just how good on Sunday.

Stan

PS Loose the toenail pic, I'm sure it's keeping people away from this thread

myflipflops

Just clicked into this log for the first time. It's a great read. Nice to see an ambitious but attainable goal and the work to match it.

tunguska wrote: »

Absolutley. Hard work all the way, Im not a believer in the natural talent myth. I think it holds a lot of people back in that they think you must be naturally gifted to achieve certain times or to progress quickly. Paddy(cwgatling) is a good example, he worked hard and aimed high and got what he was after. Your pb is 39mins right now and I think if you followed a 6 month 10k plan(like daniels or brain training)you'd nail a 35 minute 10k or better at the end of those 6 months. Its all about confidence and what you believe you can achieve. Dont be delicate or modest about it, set your sights high and go after it.
But be specific in your training. If you wanna run a 35:15 for example, thats 5:40/mile. So you gotta train at 5:40/mile. Not 6:00/mile or 5:50, its gotta be at race pace and above.

This post should be put at the top of the log page and stickied. The piece in bold especially holds true and sums up what holds so many people back in their running.

DogSlySmile

wrstan wrote: »

Howdy DSS
Out of interest, what split times were you nailing the 400's in?
Sounds like a programme I have been following. A mix of 400m, building up from 10X to 16X mixed with a build up to McMillan's 3X 2mile intervals at 10k race pace.
My immediate 10k aspirations are more modest than yours but over 6 weeks they have felt like great sessions. I can let you know just how good on Sunday.

Stan

Hi, looking at the garmin output there and I did them between 1:21 and 1:23. Not perfect pacing by any means. I found I often started out too fast and then eased off too much by the end of the lap. But I’m still getting used to the pace. Yeah I’m thinking I’ll substitute McMillan's workouts for the ones on the plan towards the end of the programme. Best of luck on Sunday.

wrstan wrote: »

PS Loose the toenail pic, I'm sure it's keeping people away from this thread

haha my other toenail is nearly ready to come off… I’ll be sure to keep yas posted!!

DogSlySmile

myflipflops wrote: »

This post should be put at the top of the log page and stickied. The piece in bold especially holds true and sums up what holds so many people back in their running.

Too right bud. Some great advice there. The GF isn’t too happy about all this time I’ve been spending out running, I must show her that post!!!

DogSlySmile

Intervals - Was supposed to do these intervals on Friday but I got a puncture on the way to work, and with no way to fix it I had to run to and from work that day so I didnt get a chance to do intervals.

Did a 1.5m warm up the 6x1k @ race pace with 1 lap of recovery. I was a bit apprehensive about this session as I struggled with some of the earlier speed work but I am delighted to report that I nailed this session Wasnt a great day for track running - had a hefty wind blowing in my face as I was going up one straight and at my back on the other straight. Really happy with how it went though and its a big confidence boost for me going forward with the program.

I know I'm not supposed to do two key sessions in a row but I'll have to do my 10 mile endurance run tomorrow. If I skip it it'll have a knock on effect with the rest of the plan (e.g., rearranging all the work outs) and generally just confuse the sh1t out of me... Might do 2m @ recovery pace/6m @ base pace/2m @ recovery pace instead of 10m @ base pace. I'll see how I'm feeling in the morning.

DogSlySmile

Build 1: Week 5

Mon, 11 Jun - 7m. Two laps of the roads around my estate @ base pace. Time: 49:58

Tue, 12 Jun - Intervals. 1.3m warm up. 12 x 400m @ 3k pace - w/1 lap active recovery. 1.3m warm down. Distance: 7.64 mi

Wed, 13 Jun - 5.5m @ recovery pace on grass.

Thur, 14 Jun - Rest Day

Fri, 15 Jun - Ran most of the way to work and ran home ~ 6m

Sat, 16 Jun - Intervals. 1.5m @ recovery pace - 6 x 10k @ race pace with 1 lap recovery -1.5m recovery warm down. Distance: 8.40 mi

Sun, 17 Jun - Endurance Run. 10 miles @ base pace. Time: 1:14:38

Total Running: 44.52 mi

Total Cycling: 34m

A bit of a rollercoaster of a week. A low point was Tuesday when I struggled to hit and maintain my target pace during the intervals. Wednesday was a struggle too as I felt completely drained during that run and had to cut it short. The week ended on a high note with a good interval session on Saturday which I'm chuffed with and I knocked out 10 miles today (Sunday) with relative ease.

DogSlySmile

Short Intervals - Headed down to the track for 400m intervals at 3k pace (5:16m/m). Had a bit of a hectic day so was shovelling my dinner into me as I was getting into my running gear, but was looking forward to a tough session. And a tough session is what I got. Did 12x400 meters @ 3k pace. Tried to pace the intervals going by my garmin but I dont think its sensitive enough to monitor the minute changes in pace of a short interval. So I just went for it and used the lap time as a gauge of how I was doing. Did them in 01:17-01:20 (was aiming for 01:17's). I was pretty knackerd after 6 so had to will myself to complete the full set. Mini-victories wha?;)